Can a breakup be stopped?
March 30, 2008 6:24 AM Subscribe
RelationshipFilter - A friend gave me one of those "How to Stop Your Breakup" books - do these techniques really work?
The following is backstory, which may or may not be pertinent...just skip over it if you want to get to the meat of the question.
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I'm at a really difficult spot with my current boyfriend - we had another argument on Sunday. It's been a pattern of great-great-great-great-ok-great-WTF. When we fight, I'm ok with just taking a break for as long as we need and cooling off, but his reaction is normally, "This is really bad, it's over." Anyway, we had a long conversation on Tuesday that was mostly about what he felt was wrong with me, and how that contributed to the problems in the relationship. I admitted to most of the issues, and offered to work on resolving them. At the end, he clearly stated, "We're still together, and we'll just see how it goes."
I haven't spoken to him since then, but he's been sending texts saying that he feels tired, and he's still not ready to talk. I got a movie from Netflix that we both really wanted to see, and sent what I thought was a nice text mentioning that I knew we hadn't made any firm plans for the weekend (we've always spent them together), but I'd really like to see it with him at some point, and I'd leave it up to him. His reply was "Enjoy your movie and weekend. Not really interested." He elaborated a bit later, stating that he wasn't "currently" interested in seeing that movie with me, nor was he interested in being around me this weekend because he was tired and had things he needed to do.
To all of this, I've simply been trying to avoid being demanding or pushy. I thank him for letting me know how he's feeling, tell him to take all the space/time he needs, and that I love him and I'm here when he's ready.
But frankly, it stinks. I realize that taking a weekend off is a good idea, but this relationship now feels more like state of limbo than anything. "Yep, we're together, but only via text, and I don't know when we'll see each other." I've been keeping busy with work, doing more of my hobbies, talking to friends, so I think I'm doing OK in that area.
***********************************************
The book that I was given, in a nutshell, states:
1. Stop "needing" them.
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
3. Don't contact them...if they contact you, either be really busy, or fake it. Keep calls to less than 8 minutes, and make sure you're the one to get off the phone.
4. Agree with all of their complaints about you, and thank them for sharing it.
5. If they say they want to break up, agree, and seem calm and pleased about it.
6. Get a life - pursue your own interests. Be a little mysterious about it.
7. Date other people.
Does this stuff work? I can't actually do #7, since we're supposedly still together, and I don't even know if I'd really want to at this point. I want to do the right thing, and I've been thinking carefully about all the pros and cons of our relationship. Right now, the pros still outweigh the cons, which is why I'd like to save it, if possible. So should I keep on doing what I was doing, and checking in from time to time with reassurances that I still want to be with him - or should I try a few of the things mentioned above? I hesitate, because it kind of feels like head games. If we were actually broken up, I could just eat a couple pints of Ben&Jerry's, watch some Jane Austen films, and go on with life. This, on the other hand, feels like one of two things...either he just needs time to gather himself, or he's keeping me on a line while he figures out if he can get something better.
Some notes: I'm in my early 30's, the relationship has been going on for 6 months, I'm pretty happy with other areas of my life, and I'll be OK if we do separate. Yeah, I know I'm over-analyzing in some ways, and I'm trying to chill out - which is why I'm going to go take a walk after I post this. If you'd like to email me, you can do so at 'iheartmefi@gmail.com'
The following is backstory, which may or may not be pertinent...just skip over it if you want to get to the meat of the question.
**********************************************
I'm at a really difficult spot with my current boyfriend - we had another argument on Sunday. It's been a pattern of great-great-great-great-ok-great-WTF. When we fight, I'm ok with just taking a break for as long as we need and cooling off, but his reaction is normally, "This is really bad, it's over." Anyway, we had a long conversation on Tuesday that was mostly about what he felt was wrong with me, and how that contributed to the problems in the relationship. I admitted to most of the issues, and offered to work on resolving them. At the end, he clearly stated, "We're still together, and we'll just see how it goes."
I haven't spoken to him since then, but he's been sending texts saying that he feels tired, and he's still not ready to talk. I got a movie from Netflix that we both really wanted to see, and sent what I thought was a nice text mentioning that I knew we hadn't made any firm plans for the weekend (we've always spent them together), but I'd really like to see it with him at some point, and I'd leave it up to him. His reply was "Enjoy your movie and weekend. Not really interested." He elaborated a bit later, stating that he wasn't "currently" interested in seeing that movie with me, nor was he interested in being around me this weekend because he was tired and had things he needed to do.
To all of this, I've simply been trying to avoid being demanding or pushy. I thank him for letting me know how he's feeling, tell him to take all the space/time he needs, and that I love him and I'm here when he's ready.
But frankly, it stinks. I realize that taking a weekend off is a good idea, but this relationship now feels more like state of limbo than anything. "Yep, we're together, but only via text, and I don't know when we'll see each other." I've been keeping busy with work, doing more of my hobbies, talking to friends, so I think I'm doing OK in that area.
***********************************************
The book that I was given, in a nutshell, states:
1. Stop "needing" them.
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
3. Don't contact them...if they contact you, either be really busy, or fake it. Keep calls to less than 8 minutes, and make sure you're the one to get off the phone.
4. Agree with all of their complaints about you, and thank them for sharing it.
5. If they say they want to break up, agree, and seem calm and pleased about it.
6. Get a life - pursue your own interests. Be a little mysterious about it.
7. Date other people.
Does this stuff work? I can't actually do #7, since we're supposedly still together, and I don't even know if I'd really want to at this point. I want to do the right thing, and I've been thinking carefully about all the pros and cons of our relationship. Right now, the pros still outweigh the cons, which is why I'd like to save it, if possible. So should I keep on doing what I was doing, and checking in from time to time with reassurances that I still want to be with him - or should I try a few of the things mentioned above? I hesitate, because it kind of feels like head games. If we were actually broken up, I could just eat a couple pints of Ben&Jerry's, watch some Jane Austen films, and go on with life. This, on the other hand, feels like one of two things...either he just needs time to gather himself, or he's keeping me on a line while he figures out if he can get something better.
Some notes: I'm in my early 30's, the relationship has been going on for 6 months, I'm pretty happy with other areas of my life, and I'll be OK if we do separate. Yeah, I know I'm over-analyzing in some ways, and I'm trying to chill out - which is why I'm going to go take a walk after I post this. If you'd like to email me, you can do so at 'iheartmefi@gmail.com'
The sad painful truth is most of the time once you've had to pick up these books it's over. Steps 1-7 sound like decent advice for getting over a breakup, not steps to prevent it from happening. I've always taken someone dating other people as a sign that I shouldn't pursue them anymore; this book may be foolishly trying to push you along the "make them jealous" path.
Similarly #3 tells you to lie to someone you are supposedly trying to patch things up with. The reason that #3 really works is that even though contacting someone who doesn't want to be in a relationship with you might sound like a good idea when you're in a state of misery, you almost never feel better after contacting them.
I total disagree with 4 and 5. You don't have to thank someone for saying crap about you. Don't agree or disagree. If you think that their perspective is useful, listen to it. Don't defend it, just mirror it instead. Him: "You never let me do the things I want to do!" You "Okay, I hear that you feel like I haven't let you do things you've wanted to."
It's pretty clear that if the point of this book is to avoid a breakup, the goal of #5 is some kind of mind game ("Wait a minute...she wants us to break up? She must be a better catch than I realized! Boy, I sure do like independent women!")
You haven't listed any of the pros in this relationship. It sounds like you need to let go of this relationship for a while. I wouldn't start dating other people but I would look into having other interests and developing what I guess you could call "emotional autoonomy". It seems unfair that the conversation earlier was only about things wrong with you. Unless of course you're really messed up, in which case you shouldn't be in a relationship and should get your act together.
But don't -- DO NOT! -- think of his complaints as a laundry list of items that, once you fix them, will bring you back together.
If you are OK with separation (yeah, you might cry for a while, but it's okay to cry) at least be open to it.
The best might be to act like you're separated, but don't start dating. Don't contact him, try to get into a postive frame of mind by doing things you like, exercising (even if you don't like it, I found exercise helped with heartache more than anything else), and treating yourself really, really well.
Hope you find your way through this.
posted by Deathalicious at 7:14 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Similarly #3 tells you to lie to someone you are supposedly trying to patch things up with. The reason that #3 really works is that even though contacting someone who doesn't want to be in a relationship with you might sound like a good idea when you're in a state of misery, you almost never feel better after contacting them.
I total disagree with 4 and 5. You don't have to thank someone for saying crap about you. Don't agree or disagree. If you think that their perspective is useful, listen to it. Don't defend it, just mirror it instead. Him: "You never let me do the things I want to do!" You "Okay, I hear that you feel like I haven't let you do things you've wanted to."
It's pretty clear that if the point of this book is to avoid a breakup, the goal of #5 is some kind of mind game ("Wait a minute...she wants us to break up? She must be a better catch than I realized! Boy, I sure do like independent women!")
You haven't listed any of the pros in this relationship. It sounds like you need to let go of this relationship for a while. I wouldn't start dating other people but I would look into having other interests and developing what I guess you could call "emotional autoonomy". It seems unfair that the conversation earlier was only about things wrong with you. Unless of course you're really messed up, in which case you shouldn't be in a relationship and should get your act together.
But don't -- DO NOT! -- think of his complaints as a laundry list of items that, once you fix them, will bring you back together.
If you are OK with separation (yeah, you might cry for a while, but it's okay to cry) at least be open to it.
The best might be to act like you're separated, but don't start dating. Don't contact him, try to get into a postive frame of mind by doing things you like, exercising (even if you don't like it, I found exercise helped with heartache more than anything else), and treating yourself really, really well.
Hope you find your way through this.
posted by Deathalicious at 7:14 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm fresh out of a relationship (but in limbo) myself, so I'm very sensitive to what you're going through. Seriously, though? A relationship is a two-person thing, but he sounds like he's got all of the control; you're handing it to him on a silver platter. Sure, I've said "No, we're not breaking up" because I didn't think it fair to just break things off without even a halfhearted attempt to work out some of our issues, but it only worked at the time because my ex went along with it. He could have said, "Screw you; I'm out of here." Furthermore, if your boyfriend's just telling you flat out what's wrong with you, that's his problem. It would be a different story if you could both express your concerns for the other, whether they're workable or not.
The relationship isn't worth saving if you can't bring up your own concerns and have him give them the same attention that you give to his. If you want to be broken up, be broken up. Even when you're in a relationship, it's YOUR life.
The old adage is always true: if it's meant to be, it'll happen. That goes for both a successful relationship and a breakup. You need to focus on getting your own life in order for yourself. Go out, have fun, clean/rearrange your home, work out, etc. If he wants to be with you, he will come to you. BUT... and it's a big but... don't let him be with you simply because he knows he can.
posted by Madamina at 7:30 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
The relationship isn't worth saving if you can't bring up your own concerns and have him give them the same attention that you give to his. If you want to be broken up, be broken up. Even when you're in a relationship, it's YOUR life.
The old adage is always true: if it's meant to be, it'll happen. That goes for both a successful relationship and a breakup. You need to focus on getting your own life in order for yourself. Go out, have fun, clean/rearrange your home, work out, etc. If he wants to be with you, he will come to you. BUT... and it's a big but... don't let him be with you simply because he knows he can.
posted by Madamina at 7:30 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
Since we obviously dont know the full extent of the problems in your relationship, its impossible for us to get inside your bf's head to know what he's thinking or what his plans are. Unfortunately, at the point you are at now, constantly barraging him with questions about how he's doing or what he's thinking is the LAST thing he wants. About the only thing you can do is give him ALL the distance he wants and see if he comes back. Harsh advice, yes, but from what I can tell, seems like the reality you're facing.
"It seems to me that those books are about not being clingy, whiny, insecure, etc. and having your own life." - bolognius maximus
Bears repeating because its so true. The best thing you can do at this point is to: be strong, be your own person, and prove (to yourself as much as anyone else) that you are capable and happy to do your own thing. You want your (potential ex-) bf to notice you are improving your life and have great things to offer, but at the same time dont make it look like you are purposely going out of your way to MAKE SURE he notices.
As for the books advice:
1. Stop "needing" them.
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
3. Don't contact them...if they contact you, either be really busy, or fake it. Keep calls to less than 8 minutes, and make sure you're the one to get off the phone.
4. Agree with all of their complaints about you, and thank them for sharing it.
5. If they say they want to break up, agree, and seem calm and pleased about it.
6. Get a life - pursue your own interests. Be a little mysterious about it.
7. Date other people.
My response:
1.) see my comments above about independence/strength
2.) Probably good advice for the time being. You dont want to seem to "attached" or "clingy"
3.) Not bad advice, but seems kinda "sneaky". Just be honest but dont sound "needy".
4.) True, but dont be so quick to be agreeable to you become a pushover. What you want to express here is a confident desire to understand their concerns and obvious effort/progress to change/fix whats wrong.
5.) I think this is terrible advice. The point the book is trying to make here is that you DONT want to be "that girl" who becomes an emotional wreck because the relationship might change/end. This just screams "dependency" and most men hate that.
6.) I think this is great advice (for pretty much anyone)
7.) This is your call. If your not emotionally/psychologically ready to date other people, then dont. The point the book is trying to make is that dating other people will prove to your (ex?)-bf that you werent hung up on them, and that you are strong and confident enough to move on.
The advice in that book seems (to me) to be underscored with the sneaky tone of creating a little jealousy, and also advice meant to help you play the (dating) "game" better. Thats not what relationships should be about. Good relationships are built on friendship, trust, communication and being a strong healthy person. You dont need games or tricks to accomplish those things. All you have to do is be honest with yourself about the situation, make your best effort to do the right thing, and be a mature human being when it comes to handling things if they dont go the way you wanted. There are lessons to be learned in EVERY situation, large and small. Dont get so caught up in the drama of the moment that you miss learning the lesson life is trying to teach you. Those lessons (large and small) are what help us grow and get better.
posted by jmnugent at 7:41 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
"It seems to me that those books are about not being clingy, whiny, insecure, etc. and having your own life." - bolognius maximus
Bears repeating because its so true. The best thing you can do at this point is to: be strong, be your own person, and prove (to yourself as much as anyone else) that you are capable and happy to do your own thing. You want your (potential ex-) bf to notice you are improving your life and have great things to offer, but at the same time dont make it look like you are purposely going out of your way to MAKE SURE he notices.
As for the books advice:
1. Stop "needing" them.
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
3. Don't contact them...if they contact you, either be really busy, or fake it. Keep calls to less than 8 minutes, and make sure you're the one to get off the phone.
4. Agree with all of their complaints about you, and thank them for sharing it.
5. If they say they want to break up, agree, and seem calm and pleased about it.
6. Get a life - pursue your own interests. Be a little mysterious about it.
7. Date other people.
My response:
1.) see my comments above about independence/strength
2.) Probably good advice for the time being. You dont want to seem to "attached" or "clingy"
3.) Not bad advice, but seems kinda "sneaky". Just be honest but dont sound "needy".
4.) True, but dont be so quick to be agreeable to you become a pushover. What you want to express here is a confident desire to understand their concerns and obvious effort/progress to change/fix whats wrong.
5.) I think this is terrible advice. The point the book is trying to make here is that you DONT want to be "that girl" who becomes an emotional wreck because the relationship might change/end. This just screams "dependency" and most men hate that.
6.) I think this is great advice (for pretty much anyone)
7.) This is your call. If your not emotionally/psychologically ready to date other people, then dont. The point the book is trying to make is that dating other people will prove to your (ex?)-bf that you werent hung up on them, and that you are strong and confident enough to move on.
The advice in that book seems (to me) to be underscored with the sneaky tone of creating a little jealousy, and also advice meant to help you play the (dating) "game" better. Thats not what relationships should be about. Good relationships are built on friendship, trust, communication and being a strong healthy person. You dont need games or tricks to accomplish those things. All you have to do is be honest with yourself about the situation, make your best effort to do the right thing, and be a mature human being when it comes to handling things if they dont go the way you wanted. There are lessons to be learned in EVERY situation, large and small. Dont get so caught up in the drama of the moment that you miss learning the lesson life is trying to teach you. Those lessons (large and small) are what help us grow and get better.
posted by jmnugent at 7:41 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
The book is a load of crap. #1 and the first half of #6 are decent general advice, but #2-5 and the second half of #6 are passive-aggressive bullshit. A mysterious, detached femme-fatale act is no substitute for openness and communication. And from the backstory, it seems like you're pretty communicative already, so I think you're on the right track as it is. Forget the book.
posted by equalpants at 7:52 AM on March 30, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by equalpants at 7:52 AM on March 30, 2008 [7 favorites]
Were I in a troubled relationship, and my partner used steps #1-#7 on me, I'd wonder why the fuck I bothered in the first place.
There's being independent, and there's being a asshole. #3, #4, #6, and #7 are all on the asshole side of things.
posted by Remy at 7:59 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
There's being independent, and there's being a asshole. #3, #4, #6, and #7 are all on the asshole side of things.
posted by Remy at 7:59 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
To all of this, I've simply been trying to avoid being demanding or pushy. I thank him for letting me know how he's feeling, tell him to take all the space/time he needs, and that I love him and I'm here when he's ready.
Seems to me that you've done everything you can to save the relationship. The problem seems to be that he doesn't want to save the relationship. Unless both of you want "in", there is no relationship. FWIW, I sometimes wish I could meet someone like you, who behaves in this way. And if I did, I certainly wouldn't only communicate via text message.
You had a conversation where he told you everything that was wrong with you? Instant fail. He only talks to you via text after this conversation, which, if I'm reading this right, was a week ago? Another portion of instant fail. To me, your bf sounds like a right tw*t, and you'd be better off without him. [/rant]
If he doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, then he wont. And if he does, then he has a very strange way of showing you that. Are the pro's that he provides you with only available from him?
To actually answer your question, the advice given in the book, sounds, to my mind, like you should be playing mind games with your partner. What kind of relationship is that going to lead to? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone where I had to manipulate them just to get them to treat me with a little honest-to-goodness respect and love.
posted by Solomon at 8:05 AM on March 30, 2008 [6 favorites]
Seems to me that you've done everything you can to save the relationship. The problem seems to be that he doesn't want to save the relationship. Unless both of you want "in", there is no relationship. FWIW, I sometimes wish I could meet someone like you, who behaves in this way. And if I did, I certainly wouldn't only communicate via text message.
You had a conversation where he told you everything that was wrong with you? Instant fail. He only talks to you via text after this conversation, which, if I'm reading this right, was a week ago? Another portion of instant fail. To me, your bf sounds like a right tw*t, and you'd be better off without him. [/rant]
If he doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, then he wont. And if he does, then he has a very strange way of showing you that. Are the pro's that he provides you with only available from him?
To actually answer your question, the advice given in the book, sounds, to my mind, like you should be playing mind games with your partner. What kind of relationship is that going to lead to? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone where I had to manipulate them just to get them to treat me with a little honest-to-goodness respect and love.
posted by Solomon at 8:05 AM on March 30, 2008 [6 favorites]
I have to agree with other commenters here that book is full of crap. Possibly the worse relationship advice I could imagine. Nothing in that list seems designed to save a relationship - more like help you accept its over.
Give him some space and take some time to really think about the things he's said. He's done you the courtesy of explaining what he feels the problem is, its up to you to decide if his feelings are valid, if these are things you can change and whether your relationship has any future, but you can't force him to love you. Don't contact him again until he contacts you but don't do that 'act busy and keep calls <8 minutes'.
posted by missmagenta at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Give him some space and take some time to really think about the things he's said. He's done you the courtesy of explaining what he feels the problem is, its up to you to decide if his feelings are valid, if these are things you can change and whether your relationship has any future, but you can't force him to love you. Don't contact him again until he contacts you but don't do that 'act busy and keep calls <8 minutes'.
posted by missmagenta at 8:13 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't know anything about relationships, but I know that this one is over. I know that sucks to hear.
To prove it, imagine yourself in a truly happy relationship (not an idealized version of your current one). Now, imagine yourself writing this post while in that relationship. Doesn't add up, does it?
posted by mpls2 at 8:20 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
To prove it, imagine yourself in a truly happy relationship (not an idealized version of your current one). Now, imagine yourself writing this post while in that relationship. Doesn't add up, does it?
posted by mpls2 at 8:20 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
These rules sounds like games and in games there has to a winner and a loser, which doesn't fit with the idea of relationship.
Most of them are silly and counterproductive and would succeed only in scaring off good men. For instance:
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
This is completely fucking stupid and exactly the wrong thing to do.
What relationship, not just couples, but any relationship has ever grown by that rule? Think about it, if your boss considers you a great employee and yet never tells you unless you ask, wouldn't another employer who gave you regular positive feedback start looking good?
So yeah, the techniques in the book might work, but only at attracting psychos with moving van of baggage which you get to unpack and "enjoy".
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:33 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
Most of them are silly and counterproductive and would succeed only in scaring off good men. For instance:
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
This is completely fucking stupid and exactly the wrong thing to do.
What relationship, not just couples, but any relationship has ever grown by that rule? Think about it, if your boss considers you a great employee and yet never tells you unless you ask, wouldn't another employer who gave you regular positive feedback start looking good?
So yeah, the techniques in the book might work, but only at attracting psychos with moving van of baggage which you get to unpack and "enjoy".
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:33 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
I agree 100% with all of the folks who've pointed out the importance of not being clingy and needy - but ... you don't sound like you've been clingy to me, at least not based on what you've described in this post.
- HE sends texts to say he's tired/not ready to talk
- Even when you got that movie, you merely told him you'd like to see it with him "at some point, and that you'd "leave it up to him"
- You've been "been keeping busy with work, doing more of my hobbies, talking to friends"
And so on. It sounds like you're doing everything a normal, healthy adult should do ... whereas HE seems to be playing weird control games - a long conversation where he told you what he thought was wrong with him, without acknowledging that it takes two people to raise problems in a relationship? Repeated text messages to tell you he's still not ready to talk? Those "enjoy your movie without me" and "this isn't over" comments? It ALL sounds to me like he's enjoying some petty little game of control and of stringing you along just because he's learned he can.
More than anything, though, the fact that he's repeatedly played the "this is over" card sounds fishy to me. If he really meant it, why hasn't he followed through, why has he repeatedly let you "talk him out of it"? It sounds a whole lot like a ploy to make you jump - a means of getting his own way with minimal risk to him since he knows how you'll react and that you don't want it to be over.
Regardless of whether or not those books actually do work (and fwiw, I'd agree it sounds like some good advice mixed up with some really crappy "head games" garbage), it might really be worth stepping back for a moment and asking yourself whether this relationship should be saved - and at what cost to you. Obviously I don't know the details, but it sounds to me like you'd be better off with a person who didn't want you thinking the problems in your relationship were All Your Fault.
posted by zeph at 8:41 AM on March 30, 2008 [3 favorites]
- HE sends texts to say he's tired/not ready to talk
- Even when you got that movie, you merely told him you'd like to see it with him "at some point, and that you'd "leave it up to him"
- You've been "been keeping busy with work, doing more of my hobbies, talking to friends"
And so on. It sounds like you're doing everything a normal, healthy adult should do ... whereas HE seems to be playing weird control games - a long conversation where he told you what he thought was wrong with him, without acknowledging that it takes two people to raise problems in a relationship? Repeated text messages to tell you he's still not ready to talk? Those "enjoy your movie without me" and "this isn't over" comments? It ALL sounds to me like he's enjoying some petty little game of control and of stringing you along just because he's learned he can.
More than anything, though, the fact that he's repeatedly played the "this is over" card sounds fishy to me. If he really meant it, why hasn't he followed through, why has he repeatedly let you "talk him out of it"? It sounds a whole lot like a ploy to make you jump - a means of getting his own way with minimal risk to him since he knows how you'll react and that you don't want it to be over.
Regardless of whether or not those books actually do work (and fwiw, I'd agree it sounds like some good advice mixed up with some really crappy "head games" garbage), it might really be worth stepping back for a moment and asking yourself whether this relationship should be saved - and at what cost to you. Obviously I don't know the details, but it sounds to me like you'd be better off with a person who didn't want you thinking the problems in your relationship were All Your Fault.
posted by zeph at 8:41 AM on March 30, 2008 [3 favorites]
"..a means of getting his own way with minimal risk to him since he knows how you'll react and that you don't want it to be over." - zeph
I also meant to add a comment along these lines. I mean, its hard to tell from the limited information you've shared here, but it does sorta sound like he has a good thing going. He can push you away or ask you to change YOUR behaviors, and you'll keep coming back every time ?. I'm not saying you should dump him, but the relationship should definitely be more "balanced" (both of you treating each other like equals, instead of "this is all your fault, I havent done anything at all wrong")
I dont mean to phrase it in such a way to make it sound like you are overly-clingy, because I dont want to give you a complex, but Zeph's last comment is really something to think about:
"it might really be worth stepping back for a moment and asking yourself whether this relationship should be saved "
posted by jmnugent at 8:59 AM on March 30, 2008
I also meant to add a comment along these lines. I mean, its hard to tell from the limited information you've shared here, but it does sorta sound like he has a good thing going. He can push you away or ask you to change YOUR behaviors, and you'll keep coming back every time ?. I'm not saying you should dump him, but the relationship should definitely be more "balanced" (both of you treating each other like equals, instead of "this is all your fault, I havent done anything at all wrong")
I dont mean to phrase it in such a way to make it sound like you are overly-clingy, because I dont want to give you a complex, but Zeph's last comment is really something to think about:
"it might really be worth stepping back for a moment and asking yourself whether this relationship should be saved "
posted by jmnugent at 8:59 AM on March 30, 2008
The thing about these books is that they do actually work on a certain type of person. The problem is that these people are usually exactly the sort of people who suck at maintaining healthy partnerships.
From what you've told us your boyfriend sounds like a bit of a dick, honestly. Seems like he only wants to work on this relationship when he feels like it and otherwise doesn't want to be bothered. That's not a relationship at all.
posted by LeeJay at 9:10 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
From what you've told us your boyfriend sounds like a bit of a dick, honestly. Seems like he only wants to work on this relationship when he feels like it and otherwise doesn't want to be bothered. That's not a relationship at all.
posted by LeeJay at 9:10 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
"a long conversation where he told you what he thought was wrong with him, without acknowledging that it takes two people to raise problems in a relationship?"
Dang it, I of course meant to write "what he thought was wrong with you," not him. Just wanted to clarify that.
Furthermore, it occurs to me that if you are going to read any self-help/relationship books, you might get more benefit out of one focused on the way healthy, normal people act in healthy, normal relationships - not because I think you're not doing so already but because it might help you be able to better gauge whether or not your partner is doing the same. I've heard a lot of good things about How to Be an Adult in Relationships," for instance, and while I haven't read it personally I can vouch for the utility of another of the author's books, How to Be an Adult.
posted by zeph at 9:27 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Dang it, I of course meant to write "what he thought was wrong with you," not him. Just wanted to clarify that.
Furthermore, it occurs to me that if you are going to read any self-help/relationship books, you might get more benefit out of one focused on the way healthy, normal people act in healthy, normal relationships - not because I think you're not doing so already but because it might help you be able to better gauge whether or not your partner is doing the same. I've heard a lot of good things about How to Be an Adult in Relationships," for instance, and while I haven't read it personally I can vouch for the utility of another of the author's books, How to Be an Adult.
posted by zeph at 9:27 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
sounds like the book should be retitled "How To Speed Up Your Breakup".
posted by aielen at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by aielen at 9:47 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
ugh,
quit playing petty games and get on with your life.
you have this much drama six months in and you want to continue?
posted by swbarrett at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2008
quit playing petty games and get on with your life.
you have this much drama six months in and you want to continue?
posted by swbarrett at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2008
You've done everything you can do to save this, and it's probably over. I know it's tempting to hold onto hope that if you follow some perfect formula, you can get this guy back, but relationships don't work that way. Relationships by definition aren't about unilateral strategizing — they're about two people working together. So go with the assumption that it's over for now, and start thinking about what's next for you. Give yourself awhile to feel bad and regroup, and set a date for the end of this phase. A week or two will probably be enough time. During your feeling bad time hit the Ben and Jerry's all you want, but also do a little brainstorming and daydreaming about things you'd like to do. Plan a fab summer vacation with a friend. Set a exercise goal for yourself. Browse through a continuing education catalogue. Look at the jobs on workopolis.com. By the time this first phase draws to a close you'll be eager to get going on those things. Sure, your ex might decide later on that he wants to get back together, but you can change direction when and if that happens. For now you're single, and you're in the driver's seat with no passengers to consider, so make the most of it.
posted by orange swan at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by orange swan at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
1. Stop "needing" them.
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
3. Don't contact them...if they contact you, either be really busy, or fake it. Keep calls to less than 8 minutes, and make sure you're the one to get off the phone.
4. Agree with all of their complaints about you, and thank them for sharing it.
5. If they say they want to break up, agree, and seem calm and pleased about it.
6. Get a life - pursue your own interests. Be a little mysterious about it.
7. Date other people.
Except for number 6, these are all silly head games. And even the part in 6 about being mysterious is a silly head game. If somebody started pulling this shit on me I would know for sure that they weren't worth being in a relationship with.
posted by number9dream at 10:25 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
3. Don't contact them...if they contact you, either be really busy, or fake it. Keep calls to less than 8 minutes, and make sure you're the one to get off the phone.
4. Agree with all of their complaints about you, and thank them for sharing it.
5. If they say they want to break up, agree, and seem calm and pleased about it.
6. Get a life - pursue your own interests. Be a little mysterious about it.
7. Date other people.
Except for number 6, these are all silly head games. And even the part in 6 about being mysterious is a silly head game. If somebody started pulling this shit on me I would know for sure that they weren't worth being in a relationship with.
posted by number9dream at 10:25 AM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh, I guess number 1 is ok too. In that you should be an independent person, whether or not you're in a relationship.
posted by number9dream at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2008
posted by number9dream at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2008
If we were actually broken up, I could just eat a couple pints of Ben&Jerry's, watch some Jane Austen films, and go on with life.
There's your answer. This guy spends the meat of your "arguments" telling you about all your faults without owning up to any of his, is blase and noncommittal about your future, and doesn't seem particularly interested in actually spending time with you, and your strategy to sit there and take it gracefully and be there when he's ready is just going to make you look like a doormat to him.
I don't know all the details of the relationship, but it sounds like you're already the one doing all the accommodating and he's just taking advantage of it. He has flaws that he needs to fix, too, and you have as much right to call him out on his faults as he has on yours. Doesn't mean he's going to fix them or even own up to them, but they are there.
Incidentally, the book you have sounds a bit like The Rules, which is full of bogosity but does mention getting a life and not needing (or not appearing to need) male attention, which are both good ideas at heart, just veiled in layers of gauzy frilly bullcrap. Being independent is great, but following a laundry list of rules to make you merely look independent, for the sole purpose of keeping a guy, is really going about it the wrong way.
You mention more than once that you'll be fine if you guys break up, and you don't mention much about what you genuinely like about him. Instead of trying to stop this breakup from happening, you might consider expediting the process. Enjoy your weekend, and all following weekends, without him.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:52 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
There's your answer. This guy spends the meat of your "arguments" telling you about all your faults without owning up to any of his, is blase and noncommittal about your future, and doesn't seem particularly interested in actually spending time with you, and your strategy to sit there and take it gracefully and be there when he's ready is just going to make you look like a doormat to him.
I don't know all the details of the relationship, but it sounds like you're already the one doing all the accommodating and he's just taking advantage of it. He has flaws that he needs to fix, too, and you have as much right to call him out on his faults as he has on yours. Doesn't mean he's going to fix them or even own up to them, but they are there.
Incidentally, the book you have sounds a bit like The Rules, which is full of bogosity but does mention getting a life and not needing (or not appearing to need) male attention, which are both good ideas at heart, just veiled in layers of gauzy frilly bullcrap. Being independent is great, but following a laundry list of rules to make you merely look independent, for the sole purpose of keeping a guy, is really going about it the wrong way.
You mention more than once that you'll be fine if you guys break up, and you don't mention much about what you genuinely like about him. Instead of trying to stop this breakup from happening, you might consider expediting the process. Enjoy your weekend, and all following weekends, without him.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:52 AM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
You know, he kinda sounds depressed. Not saying he is, and he could just be a prick who is stringing you along, but that does sound like he's withdrawing.
I'd throw the damn book away. You'll get more mileage out of confronting him -- he's pushing you away, he's not communicating, if he still wants this relationship he better start acting it.
Just be ready to move on if he's still cold. If he's depressed, he needs support, but significant others make awful amateur psychologists. If he's stringing you along, DTMFA.
posted by dw at 11:15 AM on March 30, 2008
I'd throw the damn book away. You'll get more mileage out of confronting him -- he's pushing you away, he's not communicating, if he still wants this relationship he better start acting it.
Just be ready to move on if he's still cold. If he's depressed, he needs support, but significant others make awful amateur psychologists. If he's stringing you along, DTMFA.
posted by dw at 11:15 AM on March 30, 2008
It seems to me that he's using these problems to maintain control in the relationship, by selectively cutting you off. You'd do very well just to dump him completely and move on; sure, there's a mourning period, but you're not living together and frankly, if he's all upset about everything that's "wrong" with you, but he's not even giving you an opportunity to air your grievances with *him* then he's playing games that you don't deserve to have perpetrated on you.
posted by medea42 at 12:42 PM on March 30, 2008
posted by medea42 at 12:42 PM on March 30, 2008
This relationship is over. He's just dragging it out until he gets up the stones to finally do it. If he won't even TALK to you, trust me, he's done with you in all but name. You might as well text him, "U n me over" or something and save him the trouble.
The book is definitely designed for chicks who have been too clingy in relationships and it's driving the guy away. I'm not going to say it's bullshit (I was that clingy person, I should have done more of those things. At the very least to separate myself from the guy and get used to the fact that I'm going to be single again any second now.), but if you get to that point where you need to do them, it's probably already over. He KNOWS you're clingy, so if you just avoid talking to him for a month until he talks to you, well, you've still got that whomping history of clingy behind you and he still probably won't want to be with you any more.
I don't actually know if you are clingy or not, but if you were attracted to picking up that book (I would too), you might have the tendencies, which is why I am saying this.
Oh well, I'm sure you can find better dudes out there than this one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:49 PM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
The book is definitely designed for chicks who have been too clingy in relationships and it's driving the guy away. I'm not going to say it's bullshit (I was that clingy person, I should have done more of those things. At the very least to separate myself from the guy and get used to the fact that I'm going to be single again any second now.), but if you get to that point where you need to do them, it's probably already over. He KNOWS you're clingy, so if you just avoid talking to him for a month until he talks to you, well, you've still got that whomping history of clingy behind you and he still probably won't want to be with you any more.
I don't actually know if you are clingy or not, but if you were attracted to picking up that book (I would too), you might have the tendencies, which is why I am saying this.
Oh well, I'm sure you can find better dudes out there than this one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:49 PM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Maybe those sort of books "work," if success means postponing the eventual break-up.
Ask yourself this: Do you really want to be in a relationship with someone who no longer wants to be in a relationship with you?
Cut your losses, move on, and start searching for a guy who actually wants to be in a relationship with you.
posted by emd3737 at 1:11 PM on March 30, 2008
Ask yourself this: Do you really want to be in a relationship with someone who no longer wants to be in a relationship with you?
Cut your losses, move on, and start searching for a guy who actually wants to be in a relationship with you.
posted by emd3737 at 1:11 PM on March 30, 2008
The relationship is over but he is too much of a coward to actually break up with you. So do him this one last favor and dump him so the big baby won't have to man up and tell you how he really feels.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:32 PM on March 30, 2008
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:32 PM on March 30, 2008
2. Don't tell them you love them, only say it if you're asked.
That is fucking insane by the way.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:33 PM on March 30, 2008
That is fucking insane by the way.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:33 PM on March 30, 2008
Do these techniques really work?
You wouldn't like it if they did/do - you'd be locked into a permanent state of manipulation and not be able to be yourself. Avoid head games - ring him up and say, look dude, you know I'm hot for you but I have way too much self respect to tolerate being treated the way you're treating me. It's over, I'm moving on and if you ever get past your passive aggressive manipulation, give me a call. On second thoughts, don't call me, I'll call you. (It's what I wish I'd said to this one guy 21 years ago. Luckily for me, I found a guy who did want to be loved as much as I wanted to, and we got past my/our insecurities and clinginess through honesty and hard work. You deserve better - go out and get it.)
posted by b33j at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2008 [5 favorites]
You wouldn't like it if they did/do - you'd be locked into a permanent state of manipulation and not be able to be yourself. Avoid head games - ring him up and say, look dude, you know I'm hot for you but I have way too much self respect to tolerate being treated the way you're treating me. It's over, I'm moving on and if you ever get past your passive aggressive manipulation, give me a call. On second thoughts, don't call me, I'll call you. (It's what I wish I'd said to this one guy 21 years ago. Luckily for me, I found a guy who did want to be loved as much as I wanted to, and we got past my/our insecurities and clinginess through honesty and hard work. You deserve better - go out and get it.)
posted by b33j at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2008 [5 favorites]
He presented you with a laundry list of "things that you were doing wrong?" He says "It's over!" every time you fight? He's keeping you at a distance with noncommittal text messages?
Dee Tee Emm Eff Ay. He is jerking you around and treating you like crap. You deserve better, "faults" or no. Kick him to the curb, cut off all communication with him, eat your ice cream, watch your Jane Austen movies, go on a shopping spree, hang out with your girlfriends, go to therapy if you feel that you do have relationship-killing habits or neuroses, but for criminy sakes get on with your life without this guy. I reiterate: He's jerking you around and treating you like crap. Is this what you want? A clean break will hurt far less in the long run than a long-drawn-out drama-filled breakup filled with manipulation and dirty tricks.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:20 PM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
Dee Tee Emm Eff Ay. He is jerking you around and treating you like crap. You deserve better, "faults" or no. Kick him to the curb, cut off all communication with him, eat your ice cream, watch your Jane Austen movies, go on a shopping spree, hang out with your girlfriends, go to therapy if you feel that you do have relationship-killing habits or neuroses, but for criminy sakes get on with your life without this guy. I reiterate: He's jerking you around and treating you like crap. Is this what you want? A clean break will hurt far less in the long run than a long-drawn-out drama-filled breakup filled with manipulation and dirty tricks.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:20 PM on March 30, 2008 [2 favorites]
Anyway, we had a long conversation on Tuesday that was mostly about what he felt was wrong with me, and how that contributed to the problems in the relationship. I admitted to most of the issues, and offered to work on resolving them.
This is really telling, to me. I've been there, sitting in the Shaming Seat and you know what happened? I stayed in relationships where I completely subsumed my personality and disappeared. And that was a metric ton of bullshit, because I'm AWESOME. And you're probably awesome too. Who does this guy think he is, that he gets to tell you all about what's wrong with you, and he gets to trot off thinking he's a faultless angel from Dude Heaven and you're the one that screws everything up? Let him pay his weird little games, but lose the book that tells you to play weird little games right back, because it will just stick you in a rut that will bury you.
Men, they will do you wrong, they'll come and go but Ben, Jerry, and Jane, they've always got your back.
posted by louche mustachio at 8:24 PM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is really telling, to me. I've been there, sitting in the Shaming Seat and you know what happened? I stayed in relationships where I completely subsumed my personality and disappeared. And that was a metric ton of bullshit, because I'm AWESOME. And you're probably awesome too. Who does this guy think he is, that he gets to tell you all about what's wrong with you, and he gets to trot off thinking he's a faultless angel from Dude Heaven and you're the one that screws everything up? Let him pay his weird little games, but lose the book that tells you to play weird little games right back, because it will just stick you in a rut that will bury you.
Men, they will do you wrong, they'll come and go but Ben, Jerry, and Jane, they've always got your back.
posted by louche mustachio at 8:24 PM on March 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sticking with bad relationships when they're clearly bad is what leads to bad marriages. Give this one up, and look for a new one that doesn't include all this fighting.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:29 AM on March 31, 2008
posted by Jacqueline at 2:29 AM on March 31, 2008
Just DTMFA. C'mon. He's being a dickfor, and the minute you consider playing weird manipulative games to keep him is like the minute that the US decides to torture in order to beat "terror." It's not worth it.
posted by klangklangston at 1:38 PM on March 31, 2008
posted by klangklangston at 1:38 PM on March 31, 2008
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To answer the question you actually asked, I think it works. It seems to me that those books are about not being clingy, whiny, insecure, etc. and having your own life. All great advice. Everybody needs 'me' time. I think that a relationship should be a bonus, not what makes your existence (at least at this stage). I like to think of my life as an ice cream sundae. Delicious! And if I have a great relationship, in which we can have a great time together and make each other happy, but at the same time have separate interests and alone time-it's whipped cream on my sundae! Bonus! (even though I'm lactose intolerant!)
posted by bolognius maximus at 7:11 AM on March 30, 2008