Where can some Buddhist families find land to buy?

March 27, 2008 1:34 PM

My family ( husband, adult son and I) would appreciate your suggestions regarding a liberal-tolerant area where we and 7-15 other Buddhist households can buy land (75 acres minimum).

All of the households are vegetarian, non-smoking & non-alcohol/drug users involved in stable, monogamous relationships. We're artists, craftspeople, professionals, small business owners and just plain folks. A couple of us have been college professors; one was a taxi driver and some of us currently are involved in grocery clerking, nursing, poetry writing, etc. Many of us have spent years as community volunteers.

We're looking for a place that has these qualities (or comes close to it)
1. CLIMATE: min. 20 " annual rainfall ( for organic gardening & rain-water collection), average humidity LESS than 65% and yearly snow fall (approx. 1 ft-- 4 ft. ) with mountains nearby. Need about 180 days of sun for the garden and, ideally, for solar powered energy. ( we'd like to live 'off grid'--but this may not be 100% possible )
2. Located one hour (or less) from a town with a bldg. supply store (ex: Home Depot), large grocery store & some kind of emergency medical help--doesn't need to be a hospital (Children will be home-schooled)
3. A place we're considering is Eureka Springs, Ark (although it has little snowfall). I've researched Eureka Springs (and Fayetteville). Please share your thoughts regarding OTHER areas you know about in New Mexico, Idaho, Colorado, Northern Calif (but "ouch" on the state income taxes as some of us live on modest retirement/fixed income).
4. If you have another state/region you want to recommend, please tell us. (Sorry; we're not interested in East Coast)

Thanks for your time.

posted by Prajna to home & garden (29 comments total)

The area around Roanoke, VA might fit, although I don't know if that meets your "not interested in East Coast" criteria - it's about 300 miles inland, but still in an "Eastern" state. You also may want to consider Asheville, NC, with the same caveat about the east coast.
posted by deadmessenger at 1:51 PM on March 27

Berkeley Springs, West Virginia meets most of your criteria. Not sure if that's too East Coast for you or not.
posted by electroboy at 1:53 PM on March 27

Central Kentucky, perhaps the Red River Gorge area, seems to meet many of your requirements. Land can be extremely cheap, there are "mountains" (I'm not sure what qualifies in this department) nearby, a Home Depot in Lexington (less than an hour away) and some other Buddhist collective sorts have found it hospitable.

If Virginia is tolerable, Twin Oaks may serve as an example.
posted by phrontist at 1:54 PM on March 27

Montana is surprisingly liberal, both because there are a lot of transplants from California, and because the state historically has a "live and let live" approach. Montanans are not meddlers or preachers.

The cost of living is reasonable if you stay out of the resort areas. I would expect that you could find decent-priced land within an hour of Bozeman. Bozeman has all your major stores, plus a good hospital. However, "The average annual mean snowfall in Bozeman is 73.1 inches and the average length of the growing season is 107 days. " (via)
posted by desjardins at 2:00 PM on March 27

Dixon, NM might fit the bill. It's a small, arty community within driving distance of Taos and Santa Fe. Espanola is half an hour's drive away, and there's a Lowe's there, as well as groceries and a hospital. Dixon is short on rainfall, at about 9", but there's snow, mountains, and lots of sun. Many people do off-grid living and organic gardening around there. IMHO, if you are willing to substitute a well for some of the rainwater, you could certainly make this work near Dixon. Land there is rather expensive for NM, but Velarde and Espanola are two nearby towns that would be more affordable, if you're not interested in paying for the art cachet.

Please mefi-mail me or ask here if you have any questions.
posted by vorfeed at 2:02 PM on March 27

There are lots of places in West Virginia, near a city like Morgantown or Charleston, that meet your criteria. (Aside from the "East Coast" bit, of course, depending on how you define it.)
posted by arco at 2:03 PM on March 27

Oregon south of Eugene or going into the Cascades might work for you, but you'll be at about double the rain. You'll have to get up into the foothills a bit to get the snow you want, though. You won't be getting enough sun for solar, probably, but you'll get enough for the gardens. Property taxes are a bit high, but no sales tax.
posted by devilsbrigade at 2:03 PM on March 27

I strongly suggest looking at the real estate in Hampshire County, WV.
posted by WyoWhy at 2:07 PM on March 27

I'll second Red River Gorge...
posted by LakesideOrion at 2:26 PM on March 27

I'm less familiar with the area, but north florida may work as well.
posted by phrontist at 2:26 PM on March 27

It sort of seems like the Pacific Northwest is made for this.
posted by lunasol at 3:47 PM on March 27

I second Roanoke. Yogaville, an interfaith ashram, is there and is amazing. It's the only ashram in America without a guru, as he was kicked out for sexual harassment.
posted by parmanparman at 4:01 PM on March 27

There is tons of farmland in the Pacific Northwest, it seems to fit most of your requirements. I currently live in Seattle, and though Eastern Washington is far less liberal (more like Idaho, than Seattle) Western Washington is very accepting (for the most part) of "different" lifestyles.

I grew up in Central Arkansas, and have family friends in Eureka Springs, AR. I would say you would find less understanding there of what you are trying to do.

Somewhere in New Mexico, or Oregon State would also possibly work for you.
posted by nikksioux at 4:07 PM on March 27

P.S. the link I posted was just for a frame of reference on names of areas, a few photos and a view, I don't think the ad for the land for sale is what you are looking for.
posted by nikksioux at 4:10 PM on March 27

Having grown up in a communal living situation myself, I give you a piece of advice on land shopping. It's a rule of thumb for most things that you can have it fast, cheap, or well done - pick any two, but you can't have all three. A similar principle applies to land: you can have the weather you want, the geographic location you want, and the neighbors you want, but almost never all three at once.

Anywhere rural enough to have 75 affordable acres for sale will likely be populated by people who you would not pick out as "liberal-tolerant" at first pass, and 15 households will be a significant "invasion". This is not to say that it's impossible for your group and them to become very good neighbors; it's mostly due to ignorance and prejudice. Once you're seen to be actually nice, realistic people that make good and valuable members of the community, you'll be treated as such. Until then, or forever if you don't become a vital part of the larger community you will be joining, you will be "them damn hippies" or a cult, or whatever people choose to make up about you - and will be treated accordingly.

If you don't want recommendations in the East because you want to stay, say, west of the Mississippi, be prepared to give way on your water criteria - the Western states, especially on the west slopes of the Rockies are as a rule much drier (except the Pacific Northwest, which is much wetter as a rule). If it's water/sun for agriculture you're interested in, start with US precipitation and temperature "zone" maps from the Department of Agriculturelike this basic gardening map - that will help you determine where to look based on what you want to plant/grow/live on. If that's the goal, you may want to shop for existing smaller farms that are up for sale - much of the work will have been done for you already, and your neghbors can help teach you about the local landscape.

There are two other things I'd like to point out that you should really consider, and may change your focus for this endeavor. One is cultural, especially for this first generation of "settlers". I bet for most of you, even being buddhists, you're more used to urban or suburban access to resources and culture than you're even remotely aware of. Suddenly living in the boonies, rereading the same 5 paperbacks, will drive at least a few of your members crazy, and they will drive everyone else nuts. Make sure you're not too isolated from a "real city" where people can occasionally visit for a few days and get a dose of what that offers. (It often serves to immunize and re-commit people who've forgotten what the subway can be like - they're grateful to go back to stepping on cowpies as long as they can bring back a trunk full of books, Twinkies, whatever.) The other is employment - however each of you is making a living now, you are also probably more dependent on your local urban/suburban economies than you realize. Especially when you're starting up, you're going to be "importing" almost everything you eat/drink/wear/use/build with, and that's going to mean INCOME coming in. It's going to be difficult to keep a balance between several members going to town to work- not to mention finding paying work - and bringing in money vs. the rest of the group being 'back at the ranch" working there, unpaid. This has been the ruin of many, even most communities; it's a larger-scale version of breadwinner/homemaker, and fighting over money is what breaks up many marriages. Beware.

Both these things make me suggest something you may not have considered; why not settle these 15 households in an urban or suburban setting? If it is your religious practice and service/social justice that you wish to commit to, there are many more opportunities to do so in a populated area, and more people to benefit from your service and example. There are many, many US cities with nearly-abandoned residential or former industrial areas that could use your group's help to reclaim and repurpose them. An old apartment/office building or plant, next to a vacant lot or brownfield, could accomodate your group as living/gardening space while giving you each access to resources you wouldn't have otherwise, and giving the surrounding community access to your example. I know of a group that did just this in the 80's - they started out trying to go "back to the land", went nuts, then woke up and ended up basically buying up a whole block of nearly-abandoned rowhouses in a rust-belt city. All became much happier, healthier, and they did wonders to improve life in their neighborhood, district, and city for themselves and everyone else. Those who loved their work got to keep being nurses or taxi drivers, those who simply wanted to sit in Vipassana and meditate could do it just as easily in a flat as they could in a cabin. Something to consider.

Whichever way you go, wherever you choose to settle, good luck to you.
Remember always that All of you can live better than Each of you could.
posted by penciltopper at 4:11 PM on March 27 [24 favorites]

I'll just say that people do this kind of thing in Maine all the time and we have more water than we know what to do with.

My apologies...I know you mentioned you didn't want to hear it. I'm just stating it for the record.
posted by sully75 at 5:21 PM on March 27

Higher elevations of Lake County CA might work. It's not liberal by CA standards, there are pockets of meth heads and yuppies and you'd have to be real non-selective about the kinds of jobs you'd take because you're pretty far off the beaten path but everything else probably fits.

As a bonus the land will likely be worth a fortune in 30 years.
posted by fshgrl at 5:34 PM on March 27

Kansas and Nebraska are the only places that meet all your climatic criteria on a large scale. There are a few narrow strips in central northern California and south central Oregon. It's going to be hard to meet your humidity criteria with the need for rainfall. I'd drop that requirement, because average humidity compared to how humans feel is very different in summer dry places versus summer humid. The San Francisco Bay Area averages 70% humidity, and so does the state of Georgia. It sure doesn't feel the same when you live in both places, though.

Here are some climatic maps that might be helpful for that aspect. Shame you can't overlay them.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:19 PM on March 27

There are very liberal, open-minded folks living in the rural areas near Austin, TX. I know some people who are very happy living in their yurt in Dripping Springs, and nearby Wimberly also comes to mind.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 7:08 PM on March 27

FWIW, this is trivial to answer using GIS. If a local college has a geography dept, ask if your group could be a GIS class assignment. You'll get a detailed list of every town or county or zip in the country that qualifies. For bonus points, have 'em overlay average land sale prices.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 7:42 PM on March 27 [3 favorites]

Someone up-thread mentioned North Florida, which does indeed meet most of your criteria. However, there would, of course, be no nearby mountains and no snow at all (unless a coat of ice every few years counts as snow for you (don't laugh we think it's the equivalent of a snow storm)).
posted by oddman at 8:26 PM on March 27

Nebraska and Iowa are worth checking out, honestly. The larger cities out here have art, ethnic food, films, green building supply stores, wireless internet, yoga studios and progressive minded people. We have clean air and affordable land. There are more and more people doing sustainable agriculture and organic farms. Some of my family members just bought a huge, beautiful acreage with multiple barns, a 6 bedroom farmhouse, and their own well on 3 acres of land, just 30 minutes outside of Omaha...all for less than it would cost to buy a 1 bedroom townhouse in San Francisco.
posted by pluckysparrow at 9:48 PM on March 27

Hood River County Oregon seems to have the right climate, and nearby in the Dalles is a home depot, and mid-columbia medical center. From what little I can glean online, if you want to build a structure in an agricultural zone you need at least 80 acres. That said, I'm not sure how often a parcel that big goes on sale. Oregon is a weird blend of libertarian, redneck and liberal though.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:34 AM on March 28

Seconding Montana. As noted, just don't settle too close to the larger towns, and you should be able to afford & manage just fine.
posted by davidmsc at 5:32 AM on March 28 [1 favorite]

Have you considered the Sunshine Coast, north of Vancouver, BC? Or anywhere on Vancouver Island, for that matter?
posted by awenner at 6:48 AM on March 28 [1 favorite]

Maybe not all, but for many of your criteria, check out western/northern Michigan. Land is cheap too.
posted by chocolatetiara at 10:40 AM on March 28

From Prajna:
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to consider my question---our search. Presently, my family and I live about 25 mins. from downtown Austin, in the beautiful hills. We have 2 acres purchased 18 years ago for $ 60K-- we even have access to Lake Austin. The 2 acres include a wonderful funky house we've since remodeled, fixed up & continually care for. Now, Austin has been discovered by non-Texans & is being developed overnight. Our unpaved, dead-end road, and on all roads leading to our idyllic setting has become an area of huge homes & big cars. It's breathtaking. Before moving here, I lived in beautiful Wimberley, Tx on 12 acres..and before that I lived 18 years in the glorious boonies of East Texas ( My parents & all of us kids raised animals, grew our own food, etc. ) I love living OUTSIDE of a city, however, the suggestion about living smack-dab in a rundown urban area, or anywhere where people/buildings seem to be decaying--is intriguing. (Maybe that could be a 2nd location, once we set up in a rural area)
All of you have offered something valuable to consider, ALL of you! How amazing (even the ones who talked about Maine --brrr, now that's wet cold; and Florida--no snow but lots of turbulent weather--) Tomorrow, we'll start researching all of the suggestions (but, I'm sorry, not Maine or Florida)
BTW, each household will OWN a plot of land (at least 2 acres each--depending on how expensive the whole parcel costs) There'll be a community part, attached to the privately owned acreage. In that community part will be where we'll start to build the largest structure: the hall ( shrine room/teaching/meditation area) & probably this structure will include the large kitchen area. We intend to build cabins for non-residents' to do 7-day retreats, & public toilets (maybe composting johns?), community garden, office, library. What we envision as being 'communal' starts with the jobs: We want to rotate responsibilities, so that one person might be working in the community kitchen one month and the next month be out in the garden (or in the office) or cleaning the toilets, etc. (Jack Kornfield's Spirit Rock retreat center is something we're learning from)
Yes, it would be good to be one hour or LESS from a town, & ideally, yes (as one of you wisely pointed out) a town would provide a movie house, a coffee shop, places to buy a meal, some place to buy groceries & whatever else, etc. as well as a doctor/dentist office(s), etc. Then we would appreciate returning to our rural homes. ( No one intends to have a DAILY routine of traveling back & forth into a town, in order to work at a paying job) We do our "work" on computers-- writers, consultants, long-distance teachers, etc. and with our hands (painters, potters, etc) (And some folks are retired & have wonderful hobbies.) As a long-term volunteer, I hope I can help somewhere, at least once weekly-- presently I have the honor of being a Hospice volunteer.
Thanks again! (Probably we'll have questions after investigating all the rich suggestions everyone offered) EVERYONE's input is valuable.
posted by Prajna at 9:57 PM on March 28

Getting in fairly late, but have you considered northern Arizona. They get more Rain and Snow than most people expect. Fairly hot summers, but the further north you go the higher in elavation you get, which should drop the temps a lot. Last time I went to Grand canyon (around christmas), I saw signs for plots of land for sale everywhere. Got a good bit of snow on that trip too.
posted by ShootTheMoon at 4:20 PM on April 2

Thanks for the Northern Arizona tip. Am looking into it. I lived near Flagstaff for a semester--near the foothills. Very nice, as you reminded me.
So far, we've narrowed search to northern Calif (Lake County, as an earlier response suggested); Oregon; and Eureka, Arkansas ( probably the only place to do consider doing this in all of Arkansas, though Fayetteville is interesting because of the university.) Thanks everybody for your input. Still interested in what anyone might have to say. ---Prajna
posted by Prajna at 6:08 PM on April 15