I can has less anxiety nao plz?
March 26, 2008 1:15 PM   Subscribe

Going under the prescription radar for nootropic drugs?

I have a bad case of test anxiety and possibly a bit of depression. This is having a severe effect on my work - I am a neuroscience student and I have to perform as well as possible.

I have the ability, mind, and I know what the problem is (test anxiety, problems in past, issues in other parts of my life) and I'm working through it. However, in the meantime, I have to do well in my studies.

There are a few lists of nootropics around the internets, most of which require a prescription. With my way-better-than-laypeople but limited-compared-to-my-superiors knowledge of neurotransmitters, what I'm looking for is cholinergics (makes acetylcholine, which is important to clarity of thought and focus among a lot of other things - my introductory neuroscience professor went on and on about acetylcholine when he talked about it), dopaminergics, and serotonergics (for you people who don't know what 'ergic' means, it simply means 'acts on'.)

Can I procure these legally without a prescription? When will the DEA be on my ass?
posted by kldickson to Health & Fitness (16 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Can you procure prescription drugs legally without a prescription? No.
posted by pieoverdone at 1:27 PM on March 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Okay, I ought to correct what I said. A lot of these may or may not require a prescription. Some don't .
posted by kldickson at 1:28 PM on March 26, 2008


I'm guessing a lot of people will be advising you against experimenting like this, but in short if you thoroughly scope out the numerous drugs and substances available OTC you may find some items that have the effects you want. For instance, nicotine is a substance that increases cholinergic levels. 5HTP is effective in increasing serotonergic levels. For dopamine levels you're generally getting into what produces euphoria, which includes illegal & scheduled drugs. I think there is some danger in trying to produce cocktails to increase all this stuff, especially since the body may react in a bad way to try to compensate.

For anxiety the three things that I am absolutely sure that work are: (1) limited off-label use of beta blockers, since anxiety is more a result of dysfunction in the adrenergic system, and there is no OTC substance that lowers those levels, (2) kava tea, which works mainly on the GABA receptors to indirectly curb anxiety, and (3) exercise and sleep. I am extremely skeptical of all the SSRIs and other psychoactive prescription drugs that are being tossed around these days.
posted by crapmatic at 1:31 PM on March 26, 2008


Well the DEA isn't going to be on your ass if you buy over the counter medications or supplements.

What drug/supplement are you actually after? Why are you unable to ask an MD for a prescription?
posted by pieoverdone at 1:31 PM on March 26, 2008


Go to campus health center, see doctor/therapist/N.P, get prescription, take pills. Colleges are well used to students with test anxiety and certainly quite used to helping with depression. It's not like a drive-up window where you tell them what you want and they give it to you, but if they agree that medication is appropriate, I can't imagine why they wouldn't prescribe something. You could talk to them both about how you can work through your problems in general, which may involve talk therapy, getting more exercise, relaxation techniques, and yes, medication, and about some kind of stronger prescription you could use in the short term when you have tests to keep you from freaking out. There's no reason to do this alone when people are ready and willing to help you. Go get the help you need, and good luck!
posted by zachlipton at 1:42 PM on March 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


It sounds like you're confused. Anxiety, depression, and this cryptic perceived need for a nootropic drug are all quite different things. You need to see a psychiatrist if you're hell-bent on getting yourself medicated (if you think your anxiety and depression are negatively affecting your life and preventing you from doing things you want or need to do, the best thing you can possibly do is see a therapist. No shame in that, even for someone as together as you seem to be). Self-medicating with controlled substances is probably unwise, especially if you're "looking for cholinergics, dopaminergics, and serotonergics". Undertaking such an apparently large and diverse regimen of mind-altering substances without professional consultation would be egregiously reckless.

The DEA doesn't care if some college students are snorting adderall in their dorm rooms or staying up for three days on provigil, and you could probably buy some from someone on campus (well, who knows what it would really be; caveat emptor, dude). No, you can't procure any controlled substances legally without a prescription. I mean, come on. Of course not.
posted by clockzero at 2:15 PM on March 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


You're a neuroscience student - you should know that synaptic transmission is a very delicate and very precise phenomenon.

Randomly upping your cholinergic transmission is unlikely to be beneficial. People moved away from cholinergics to dopaminergics to seratonergics to essentially giving up this particular line of inquiry because they don't work all that well and when effects are achieved, the side effects were too severe.

For anxiety, maybe try a half-tab of gravol (the stuff they give kids for car sickness). Practicing and doing more events where you're anxious (oral presentations, tests) will help.

Seeking diagnosis for what you suspect to be depression should be the first thing you should try.
posted by porpoise at 2:29 PM on March 26, 2008


There may be experimental substances out there that have similar effects but haven't been scheduled by the DEA. For example Adrafinil, which is a metabolic precursor to Modafinil and has similar effects isn't illegal to buy as a straight chemical compound (rather then as a 'drug')
posted by delmoi at 2:35 PM on March 26, 2008


Please go to your school's health center. No matter how much you think you know, you're not going to be as well equipped as a professional will be, and given that medication might alter your judgement even further, it's unwise to try choosing your own. I speak forcefully because I've seen how rough neuroscience students have it: I feel bad when one tries to haggle for my Ambien, or another buys a shelf's worth of a health food store. Please don't be those guys.
posted by StrikeTheViol at 2:37 PM on March 26, 2008


It depends on which specific nootropics you are talking about. Many are not regulated as drugs by the FDA and are considered nutritional supplements, so they are available online, but whether you are purchasing from a reputable place or a snake-oil outfit that is selling capsules of confectioner's sugar or something is kind of a crapshoot.

I have a friend who uses nootropics regularly, specifically Piracetam, and he is happy with the place he gets it from. He claims to have increased concentration and focus from taking it, but he has to take large doses to get the effects. His mother, however, has experienced some relief of neurological symptoms related to post-polio syndrome while using Piracetam. YMMV, it is not regulated by the FDA, etc., but those are my anecdotes, and you can still get Piracetam and related nootropics (Aniracetam, etc.) legally without a prescription. Unfortunately, I do not know which site he gets it from.

As a neuroscience student, nootropics would probably be a very interesting area of research for you, but don't use yourself as a guinea pig. Go to your school's health center, as others have advised, and seek their assistance for your issues.
posted by bedhead at 4:13 PM on March 26, 2008


You don't say what your symptoms are other than test anxiety. If anxiety is the chief problem, long-acting benzodiazepines like clonazepam can be very helpful with low potential for abuse if overseen by a competent prescriber.
posted by neuron at 4:19 PM on March 26, 2008


The forums at the Immortality Institute are for people wishing to self-experiment with the intention of improving oneself.

A product called DopaBean is the only legal way I know of to increase dopamine. The active ingredient is the velvet bean, which Wikipedia says contains high levels of a dopamine precusor.

For sharpening your focus, the two things that work best for me are caffeine and Provigil. I'm often sleepy and easily distracted. These two drugs correct that. Provigil (modafinil) is prescription in the US. Here's a supposed source and they don't require a prescription.

For test anxiety, Xanax is awesome. It's a prescription drug but it's cheap as a generic. I took some for a recent job interview and it took the near-panic edge off.

I think I understand what you're doing. Even with my prescriptions, I experiment. Luckily, I have a doctor who seems comfortable with this. For the Provigil, I told her I sleep a lot, have always needed a lot of sleep, am often sleepy, and that I want to try Provigil. No argument from her.

That's what I recommend. Go to the doc. Tell them your symptoms. Then tell them what drug you want to try and what you've discovered about that drug. If that doc is med-phobic, say thanks and go to a different doc.
posted by muzzlecough at 4:55 PM on March 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


Provigil also gives me a more positive mood. And it makes me better at first person shooters. And that's important.
posted by muzzlecough at 5:05 PM on March 26, 2008


Agree with muzzlecough, immortality institute forums is the best information source.

Prescription drugs require a prescription. Check this out. You can get a U.S. script online. If you get one from an in person visit and you trust the quality of Indian pharmaceuticals, you might could save some cash.

Many nootropics do not require a script.
posted by BigSky at 9:05 PM on March 26, 2008


There are nootropics which which do not require prescriptions, piracetam being the first that comes to mind. I haven't checked yet, but I've heard that you can buy choline supplements at health food stores. If you MeMail me, I can find a link to the place online some folks I know get theirs. THere's no reason to keep it secret, and I'm not worried about legality, but I don't have the link right here, and I'll likely forget.

That all being said, I've personally had the experience that drugs meant to treat anxiety and depression are much better at treating them than drugs meant to do other things. If you wish to avoid the medical establishment for some reason, you could try St. John's Wort.
posted by !Jim at 12:26 AM on March 27, 2008


I believe you can get your fill of one type of acetylcholine from cigarettes. Nicotine specifically. There are also multiple supplements which contain choline precursors if you're interested in that. Find an online supplement store and search "choline." You could also start dipping Skoal.

A lot of B vitamins are supposed to have anxiolytic effects as well. I have no idea if this is true. A lot of the studies I've seen don't support this theory.

Re-reading my own post, I have to say that these ideas seem pretty stupid and lend credence to managing any anxiety with the help of a physician, which I most certainly am not.
posted by battlecj at 9:00 AM on March 27, 2008


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