orthopedic stumper

March 24, 2008 10:35 PM

My 8 year old Border Collie mix has been experiencing weakness in his hind legs recently. He often doesn't have the strength to jump up on the couch or the bed. He doesn't seem to be in any acute pain, but he's reluctant to walk long distances (more than 100 yards.) He's in good spirits, and shows no urinary or bowel incontinence. He doesn't knuckle under when he walks, but does turn his feet out. When he stands, his hind legs splay out. Does this sound familiar to anyone??

X-rays of his hips and spine show no abnormalities. His bloodwork is all within normal range. His flexibility is good. His appetite is excellent. I can touch him all over, and haven't found any sore spots or guarding.

posted by freshwater_pr0n to pets & animals (18 comments total)

That sounds like arthritis to me, but you'd see that on an x-ray. Arthritis meds for dogs (same as people ones) aren't excessively expensive, and will really help out your buddy. Collies have crappy joints (most heavily modified breeds do). Then again, if you got him x-rayed, shouldn't your vet have told you whats wrong?
Turning feet out is pretty normal dog-behavior AFAIK - better balance when standing - and its harder to balance when your joints hurt, in particular.
posted by lrodman at 11:01 PM on March 24

I don't know if an x-ray will show this, but it could be a pinched nerve or some sort of problem with his spinal column.
posted by Large Marge at 12:08 AM on March 25

Sadly, this does sound familiar. We had a Labrador with these symptoms. His ability to walk declined and eventually lead to seizures. It's a long long story (here if you wish) but the final diagnosis was poly neuropathy, about which nothing can be done.

Has your dog been on antibiotics for a long time, perchance? There are those who suspect fluoroquinolones of causing this sort of thing, but it's controversial.
posted by richg at 1:14 AM on March 25

border collie mix - does he look like he might be part german shepherd?

we recently had to put down our 11-yo black lab mix due to degenerative myelopathy. it is a genetic disease common in certain breeds, notably german shepherds, and involves progressive deterioration of the motor control of the hind legs, leading to eventual paralysis. as far as i know, there is no conclusive test (xray, blood work, etc) except a post-mortem examination of the spinal cord. my boy had a bit of GS in him, you could tell from the shape of his head, and he inherited the condition. he was otherwise fine, and didnt seem to be in any pain except the obvious psychological torment of not being able to move on his own.

i hope this isn't the case for you - it sounds like it might not be, as usually the dogs tend to stand with legs close together and hindquarters slumped down, like they're slightly squatting in the back. legs splayed out sounds like something different, but if he is part shepherd, it's maybe something to look for.

hope it works out okay in the end.
posted by sergeant sandwich at 1:14 AM on March 25

my boder collie had a slipped disc when this happened to her - but i imagine that would show on xray?
posted by wayward vagabond at 3:16 AM on March 25

Make sure you rule out Lyme Disease.
posted by fluffycreature at 5:20 AM on March 25

We have a spaniel mix that this very same thing happened to. No abnormailities on x-rays, nothing odd on examinations, all bloodwork and blood tests came back normal, no pain, good spirits, etc. But she got worse and worse. It got to the point that I was having to carry her outside, since she couldn't walk those few feet, and lift her back end up so she could pee and poop. She was *this* close to being put down. We had to leave town for a couple of days, so we put her in boarding at her vet's office. We told the vet what was going on, and not to take any drastic measures until we got back, seeing that we would likely have to have her put down when we got back.

When I went to pick her up four days later, the vet said, "Listen, I figure there wasn't any harm that could come of this, and we haven't been able to figure out anything else. So I took a flier and prescribed her some prednisone. She seems to be responding to it." When I went out to the kennels, a tech opened her pen and this dog, who couldn't stand when I left, jogged out to me. We were given 90 days worth of prednisone to take home with her. It took some time to build her strength back up, but eventually we got up to 4 miles on the morning walk. She's not as strong as she was before this all happened, and she isn't as willing to run as she once was, or jump too much. But she's bright-eyed and waggy-tailed, and a happy mutt.

This may or may not be relevant to your case, but I was struck by the similarities between what you described and what my dog went through. You can mention this to your vet, and they may or may not want to try this route. But it did work for us.
posted by azpenguin at 8:21 AM on March 25

Check your mefimail.
posted by rtha at 8:53 AM on March 25

?? -Glucosamine is good for puppy joints too. (Double check with a pharmacist, but the people stuff is ok for dogs - if it works out cheaper than getting it from a vet?)

Where did you get him from? Is there any way to track down the rest of the litter to see how they're going?

He sounds happy, so that's good. I hope he turns out to be ok as well! :)
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 9:02 AM on March 25

Seconding the possible degenerative myelopathy ... ugh, ms. nobeagles favorite rat seems be undergoing the same thing :/

At least with rats, steroids (prednizone) can help, but only for the short term; this might be what happened with azpenguin's dog, except it seems to have worked for a longish term. Azpenguin: is your dog still on the prednizone, and how long has she been fine?
posted by nobeagle at 11:07 AM on March 25

Did the vet do extensions on the ACL joints? These blew out on my border collie mix. It's fairly common. If you go down the glucosomine route, I highly suggest glucoflex brand.
posted by machaus at 11:10 AM on March 25

My parents have a Pekingese dog who exhibited similar symptoms, maybe a little worse (with a similar lack of abnormalities on x-rays, etc). The doctor prescribed Prednisone anyway because Pekingese are known to have these problems, and she got better, but she was still a little weak. This is going to sound crazy, but my mother took her to a pet chiropractor who did some manipulations on the dog's back every 2 weeks for a few months. The dog has been much better since then. Her dosage of prednisone is much lower (she might not even take it anymore). My parents give her glucosamine which they get from the vet.
posted by bluefly at 11:14 AM on March 25

Ok, I know cats and dogs are not the same, but our cat has trouble walking on his back legs, and after many vet visits, we discovered he was diabetic. And diabetes can lead to a type of neuropathy in the hind legs that makes it difficult to walk. He is being treated for diabetes now, with 2 shots a day, but still doesn't walk like he used to. He doesn't appear to be in pain, he simply doesn't have the strength that he used to. But he still loves to play, and his old personality is intact, so that's good!
posted by newfers at 11:50 AM on March 25

Last year, my 8 year old Sheltie was suffering age related arthritis badly. He responded very well to the low dose aspirin (81 mg) twice a day. After a couple of months I reduced it to once a day unless it looked like he needed the second dose. So try that.

Weirdly normal dose aspirin did not help him. I don't know if that aspirin was old or what.

I had him tested for Lyme disease earlier last year and he did have it so he was treated for that. He also ate macadamia nuts a few years ago and that was really scary since it affected his legs.

I just realized he'll be 9 in June.
posted by andreap at 4:19 PM on March 25

nobeagle, she was on the prednisone for 3 months. She's been doing well for nearly four years now. It was a dosage schedule that gradually ramped down over the course of treatment.
posted by azpenguin at 5:47 PM on March 25

Thanks, everyone!

He definitely doesn't have Lyme Disease, arthritis or a torn ACL, but those are all things that we've looked into. Calvin goes to the vet for an acupuncture treatment on Monday, and I'll mention Pred then. It's nasty stuff, but it's worth considering.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 10:02 PM on March 25

Again nothing really to offer but if you enjoy thinking this may be helpful?

The x-rays and blood test showing up zip made me wonder if maybe his paw pads or toe nails hurt? Like how sometimes the top of your toe nails will hurt but it's only an issue when you press on them.
But why the back and not the front?? I don't know that's why I didn't mention it.
They do have that funny little vague and half assed pretence at covering unpleasantness (That one. two. all done. thing they do with their back legs) but...? I haven't had a dog in years so that was all I could think of...

Then today SO was saying that this particular thing always makes him burp, even if he only smells it. My first thought was - it's probably because you don't like it. Even if you just smell it, you'll swallow ect. so even though it does, it in fact doesn't.
Which made me think of you.
Maybe the cause is not the cause (yes there being no hard evidence - is playing on my mind) and would make a good reason as to why you can't find anything. But again why the back but not the front?

And one more thing (because I have irrefutably found that they do this) would there be a reason for him to pretend he is hurt...? (Yes.. pretend.)
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 4:05 AM on March 26

Although the x-rays didn't show any abnormalities, did the vet even mention hip dysplasia? It's common in many breeds of dogs and according to this it's the most prevalent genetic disease in border collies.
posted by mr. plow at 2:36 PM on March 26