Your Mother's In Here With Us, Karras
March 23, 2008 10:23 AM Subscribe
Looking for suggestions on how to help, or simply deal with, a friend who changes personalities more often than his underwear.
My good friend (and ex-fiancé) “Keith” is the moodiest person I’ve ever met. It’s not just that his emotions go up and down — although they do — it’s that he changes, quite significantly, on a daily basis.
On Monday, you’ll try to hug him hello, and he’ll bitch you out because he ‘hates public displays of affection’. On Tuesday, you won’t hug him hello, and he’ll be hurt, ask if you’re angry at him, and then sit there gleefully molesting you in front of a hundred people. On Wednesday, he’ll tell you how excited he is about a movie... but if you ask him to go see that same movie with you on Friday, he’ll tell you that the movie looks stupid and imply that you are also stupid for even thinking he’d want to go see such drivel. On Thursday, he’ll send you 2girls1cup, laugh his ass off at it, and say that anyone who thinks it isn’t awesome is a total prude... on Saturday, you’ll send him something 1/100th as disgusting, and he will go off on you about how the Internet is ruining our moral fiber and how could you offend his delicate sensibilities like that.
Basically, he is extremely judgmental and condemning of people who aren’t exactly like him... but who he is changes constantly.
Is he bisexual or homophobic? Depends on the day. Is he religious or an atheist? Depends on the day. Unbelievably kinky or totally vanilla? Depends on the day. What’s his favorite food, his favorite color... who are his friends, who does he hate, is he in love with you, are you dating him or not? Depends on the day.
Sometimes it depends on the hour.
This quality of his makes it pretty much impossible to make any advanced plans with him, depend on him at all, or have any kind of interaction with him without getting verbally pimp-slapped for crossing one of his ever-shifting lines... and I believe that it is the #1 factor in why his kid is having so many behavioral problems. Keith’s discipline is totally inconsistent because Keith’s personality is totally inconsistent. The same behavior from his child can inspire uproarious laughter and approval... or condemnation and punishment. No wonder the kid’s confused and acting out.
My current way of handling it (besides breaking up with him) is just going with whatever flow he’s having that day; locking horns with his Mood du Jour has always been epic fail. Of course, he then complains that I’m too passive, that he always has to make the decisions, etc.
This is seriously impacting Keith’s life. Every girlfriend leaves him in frustration, he’s lost almost all of his friends, his child has no clue how to behave and just sort of randomly throws behavior out there to see what Keith will approve of. I care about Keith a lot, am the closest thing he has to a best friend, and am even still somewhat in love with him... yet I keep a lot of distance between us for this very reason.
What can I do to help him... and by extension, his child, who I adore?
I don’t think Keith has Multiple Personality Disorder... it’s not that he’s changing from Personality A to Personality B and losing time, it’s more like someone hit “shuffle” on his opinions every few hours. He’s already in therapy (for depression), but I’m not sure his therapist is even aware of this aspect of him. I’ve tried broaching the subject with him, but it’s like a wall comes down.
Thanks in advance, Hive Mind.
My good friend (and ex-fiancé) “Keith” is the moodiest person I’ve ever met. It’s not just that his emotions go up and down — although they do — it’s that he changes, quite significantly, on a daily basis.
On Monday, you’ll try to hug him hello, and he’ll bitch you out because he ‘hates public displays of affection’. On Tuesday, you won’t hug him hello, and he’ll be hurt, ask if you’re angry at him, and then sit there gleefully molesting you in front of a hundred people. On Wednesday, he’ll tell you how excited he is about a movie... but if you ask him to go see that same movie with you on Friday, he’ll tell you that the movie looks stupid and imply that you are also stupid for even thinking he’d want to go see such drivel. On Thursday, he’ll send you 2girls1cup, laugh his ass off at it, and say that anyone who thinks it isn’t awesome is a total prude... on Saturday, you’ll send him something 1/100th as disgusting, and he will go off on you about how the Internet is ruining our moral fiber and how could you offend his delicate sensibilities like that.
Basically, he is extremely judgmental and condemning of people who aren’t exactly like him... but who he is changes constantly.
Is he bisexual or homophobic? Depends on the day. Is he religious or an atheist? Depends on the day. Unbelievably kinky or totally vanilla? Depends on the day. What’s his favorite food, his favorite color... who are his friends, who does he hate, is he in love with you, are you dating him or not? Depends on the day.
Sometimes it depends on the hour.
This quality of his makes it pretty much impossible to make any advanced plans with him, depend on him at all, or have any kind of interaction with him without getting verbally pimp-slapped for crossing one of his ever-shifting lines... and I believe that it is the #1 factor in why his kid is having so many behavioral problems. Keith’s discipline is totally inconsistent because Keith’s personality is totally inconsistent. The same behavior from his child can inspire uproarious laughter and approval... or condemnation and punishment. No wonder the kid’s confused and acting out.
My current way of handling it (besides breaking up with him) is just going with whatever flow he’s having that day; locking horns with his Mood du Jour has always been epic fail. Of course, he then complains that I’m too passive, that he always has to make the decisions, etc.
This is seriously impacting Keith’s life. Every girlfriend leaves him in frustration, he’s lost almost all of his friends, his child has no clue how to behave and just sort of randomly throws behavior out there to see what Keith will approve of. I care about Keith a lot, am the closest thing he has to a best friend, and am even still somewhat in love with him... yet I keep a lot of distance between us for this very reason.
What can I do to help him... and by extension, his child, who I adore?
I don’t think Keith has Multiple Personality Disorder... it’s not that he’s changing from Personality A to Personality B and losing time, it’s more like someone hit “shuffle” on his opinions every few hours. He’s already in therapy (for depression), but I’m not sure his therapist is even aware of this aspect of him. I’ve tried broaching the subject with him, but it’s like a wall comes down.
Thanks in advance, Hive Mind.
Is this new behavior (that could indicate some kind of biological cause)? Is he now losing old friends and old girlfriends, and if not, how on earth did he manage to make friends and date women in the first place?
posted by you're a kitty! at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2008
posted by you're a kitty! at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2008
What can I do to help him
Not a fat lot, unless he wants your help. Catching him on a day where he's open to your help might work (good luck with that... ;) ), but there's no guarantee that the next day he's going to be OK with the situation. He must be getting some kind of payoff from acting like a toddler, but I think only he is going to know what that is. And if losing his friends, fiancé, etc, aren't enough to convince him to change, then what will be?
To be honest, this is the sort of thing that requires professional help, if he's going to change, which he may not want to.
Is this impacting his ability to feed, wash, clothe himself, pay his bills, etc? Is he harming himself or anyone else? If not, then, strange as it may be, he has a right to behave like this. I can see how it would freak people out, but it's his right to do that, just as it's their right to get away from it.
... and by extension, his child, who I adore?
By being a stable force in his life. Can you imagine having a father who changes like this on a daily basis? The kid probably has no idea what is going on. Be the stable one. The one who never changes, who encourages him no matter what flavour his dad is today.
posted by Solomon at 10:49 AM on March 23, 2008
Not a fat lot, unless he wants your help. Catching him on a day where he's open to your help might work (good luck with that... ;) ), but there's no guarantee that the next day he's going to be OK with the situation. He must be getting some kind of payoff from acting like a toddler, but I think only he is going to know what that is. And if losing his friends, fiancé, etc, aren't enough to convince him to change, then what will be?
To be honest, this is the sort of thing that requires professional help, if he's going to change, which he may not want to.
Is this impacting his ability to feed, wash, clothe himself, pay his bills, etc? Is he harming himself or anyone else? If not, then, strange as it may be, he has a right to behave like this. I can see how it would freak people out, but it's his right to do that, just as it's their right to get away from it.
... and by extension, his child, who I adore?
By being a stable force in his life. Can you imagine having a father who changes like this on a daily basis? The kid probably has no idea what is going on. Be the stable one. The one who never changes, who encourages him no matter what flavour his dad is today.
posted by Solomon at 10:49 AM on March 23, 2008
That sounds pretty extreme, but I'll take a stab at it...
He's trying to find a "Keith" that people will like. He assumes that his friend/romantic problems are a consequence of his defective personality, and at different times he perceives that defect to be different. Sometimes (he thinks) people don't like him cuz he's too serious; no, it's because he's a wimp; no, it's because he's too goofy; etc.
He just needs lots of people in his life telling him that they love him for who he his, and he doesn't have to try to be some kind of super-person. Unfortunately, you're all he's got, and he's probly afraid of losing you. So, he's got a long road ahead of him.
posted by mpls2 at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
He's trying to find a "Keith" that people will like. He assumes that his friend/romantic problems are a consequence of his defective personality, and at different times he perceives that defect to be different. Sometimes (he thinks) people don't like him cuz he's too serious; no, it's because he's a wimp; no, it's because he's too goofy; etc.
He just needs lots of people in his life telling him that they love him for who he his, and he doesn't have to try to be some kind of super-person. Unfortunately, you're all he's got, and he's probly afraid of losing you. So, he's got a long road ahead of him.
posted by mpls2 at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
Throwing an idea out there:
Frustration. Something about his life is really winding him up, and he's taking it out on the people around him. That's why you can't win - he's rigging the game so you're always in the wrong.
Causes/solutions? Not a clue.
posted by Leon at 10:56 AM on March 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
Frustration. Something about his life is really winding him up, and he's taking it out on the people around him. That's why you can't win - he's rigging the game so you're always in the wrong.
Causes/solutions? Not a clue.
posted by Leon at 10:56 AM on March 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
My good friend (and ex-fiancé)...
Whoa, that's a pretty important fact to just put in parentheses and then barely mention again.
You two clearly have a troubled past together; fortunately, you seem confident that breaking up was the right decision. Now he still has a bunch of personal problems. Why would you want to even try to fix them? I find it very odd how you've described his psychology in great detail and then posed the question of what you should do about it, without questioning whether it's something you should do anything about at all.
At the very most, I would tell him briefly, on a single occasion, "Look, I think you have some problems that you should work on and maybe think about getting professional help with." He probably won't take it seriously. People don't generally react well to being told they need to change, and they really don't react well if you turn it into an issue about how they're raising their child. Or maybe, just maybe, he will take it seriously and make a positive change, in which case, good for you for helping him take action. (But really, what are the odds of that...like, 5% or less?) Beyond this kind of terse, one-time message, there's probably not much you can do. It's his job to improve his life and his kid's life. It's not your job. It's time to move on with your life, whether that means continuing to spend time with him but not worrying about his issues (after all, you broke up), or just not spending time with him anymore.
posted by jejune at 10:56 AM on March 23, 2008
Whoa, that's a pretty important fact to just put in parentheses and then barely mention again.
You two clearly have a troubled past together; fortunately, you seem confident that breaking up was the right decision. Now he still has a bunch of personal problems. Why would you want to even try to fix them? I find it very odd how you've described his psychology in great detail and then posed the question of what you should do about it, without questioning whether it's something you should do anything about at all.
At the very most, I would tell him briefly, on a single occasion, "Look, I think you have some problems that you should work on and maybe think about getting professional help with." He probably won't take it seriously. People don't generally react well to being told they need to change, and they really don't react well if you turn it into an issue about how they're raising their child. Or maybe, just maybe, he will take it seriously and make a positive change, in which case, good for you for helping him take action. (But really, what are the odds of that...like, 5% or less?) Beyond this kind of terse, one-time message, there's probably not much you can do. It's his job to improve his life and his kid's life. It's not your job. It's time to move on with your life, whether that means continuing to spend time with him but not worrying about his issues (after all, you broke up), or just not spending time with him anymore.
posted by jejune at 10:56 AM on March 23, 2008
I'm not a doctor, but I suffer from a form of manic depression, and it sounds like your friend might be exhibiting some of the symptoms. It could be a chemical imbalance. This doesn't mean that he's incapable of being social, helping himself or others, or parenting. In fact, if he figures it out with professional help, he could end up being the best friend and parent you've ever known.
Standing by him even after you broke up with him is noble and good of you -- but there are limits to how you can help him. Ditto to jejune's comments. You can be a good friend by setting a good example, showing care and concern while still taking care of yourself. You may want to broach the topic in a letter (not an email) -- give him some time on his own to hear and read what your concerns are rather than have an in-person conversation that he may interpret as accusatory.
posted by salem at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
Standing by him even after you broke up with him is noble and good of you -- but there are limits to how you can help him. Ditto to jejune's comments. You can be a good friend by setting a good example, showing care and concern while still taking care of yourself. You may want to broach the topic in a letter (not an email) -- give him some time on his own to hear and read what your concerns are rather than have an in-person conversation that he may interpret as accusatory.
posted by salem at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
I agree with Leon on the point that he's rigging the game so you can't win. It seems upon reading your description that he delights (secretly or not so secretly) in "catching people" in behavior he deems unacceptable so he can feel superior.
In addition, I could be wrong, but the way your letter is written suggests that this "game" is not a new thing. If that is the case, I wonder if your wanting to "help him" was part of the relationship you had with him as well.
The cold, hard truth is that you are not going to be able to help him. He has chosen to be judgemental and condemning, and I suspect the day-to-day chameleonic changes are deliberately chosen so that he can continue the game. Otherwise, if it were just personality changes, there should be times on occasion where he's synching with other people.
As for his child, are there trustworthy people in his family who could keep an eye on the child and prove to be a stable presence? My gut is saying to me, "Get away from him, ex-fiance, because you seem to be getting sucked back in to the maelstrom you tried to leave when you broke up with him!"
posted by lleachie at 11:50 AM on March 23, 2008
In addition, I could be wrong, but the way your letter is written suggests that this "game" is not a new thing. If that is the case, I wonder if your wanting to "help him" was part of the relationship you had with him as well.
The cold, hard truth is that you are not going to be able to help him. He has chosen to be judgemental and condemning, and I suspect the day-to-day chameleonic changes are deliberately chosen so that he can continue the game. Otherwise, if it were just personality changes, there should be times on occasion where he's synching with other people.
As for his child, are there trustworthy people in his family who could keep an eye on the child and prove to be a stable presence? My gut is saying to me, "Get away from him, ex-fiance, because you seem to be getting sucked back in to the maelstrom you tried to leave when you broke up with him!"
posted by lleachie at 11:50 AM on March 23, 2008
Step 1 - Break up with him. Complete.
Step 2 - Break off contact with him until he gets his act together.
Staying around him and going with the tantrum de jour is enabling this behavior. Stop it. Ex-fiancée is rough terrain. He's toying with you with these behaviors. You are allowing it to continue.
As to the child, are they other more stable family members who can intercede?
posted by 26.2 at 12:15 PM on March 23, 2008
Step 2 - Break off contact with him until he gets his act together.
Staying around him and going with the tantrum de jour is enabling this behavior. Stop it. Ex-fiancée is rough terrain. He's toying with you with these behaviors. You are allowing it to continue.
As to the child, are they other more stable family members who can intercede?
posted by 26.2 at 12:15 PM on March 23, 2008
Hm. Moods fluctuating. Inner turmoil. Childhood instability, trauma. Nervous system overloaded, influx of cortisol and adrenaline will do this. Add to the mix the obvious self-medicating that he's doing - caffeine et al - and nary an idea on how to get balance, rhythm and flow - and there you have the making of what you've described. At this juncture, aside from radical therapy that includes behavior modification, bio-feedback, regulated breathing, learning how to de-stress via meditation and movement - there is little recourse other than mood-stabilizers (how unfortunate that this is the sad state of things as they are) and other psychiatric medications that will basically numb his nerves and maybe, help with serotonin uptake. You can be supportive but find your own boundaries so as not to get enmeshed which can take a toll on your own mental health. Cheers.
posted by watercarrier at 1:25 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by watercarrier at 1:25 PM on March 23, 2008
his child has no clue how to behave and just sort of randomly throws behavior out there to see what Keith will approve of.
Sounds like the kid will grow up to be just like him. Which makes me think this is a pattern that Keith probably picked up from one of his own parents. Really there's nothing you can do but keep contact occasional and light-hearted and break out in cold-sweats of relief that you never married him.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2008
Sounds like the kid will grow up to be just like him. Which makes me think this is a pattern that Keith probably picked up from one of his own parents. Really there's nothing you can do but keep contact occasional and light-hearted and break out in cold-sweats of relief that you never married him.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2008
I could be wrong, but Keith sounds like he has the emotional maturity of a six year-old without the accompanying charm and potential to grow up someday. That to me screams personality disorder of some sort. He may very well have a physiological problem, as has been suggested. However, it seems to me like he has no core sense of self and that accounts for his maddeningly inconsistent behavior towards you and everyone else. I empathize, believe me.
Here are some things you might try if you insist on staying in Keith's life to be near his child:
- Set firm boundaries. Learn to control your interactions with him by being firm in your plans and the execution of them. Take the reins and do not relinquish them. For example, you might say, "I'm going to the movies Saturday at 8 o'clock. If you and (his child) want to come, meet me in front of the theater at 7:45." If he hems and haws and offers all sorts of weird resistance or complaint, simply listen and then go back to the original plan. "Okay, I hear you. So, I'm still going to the movies on Saturday. I hope I'll see you there at 7:45. Gotta run." And leave it at that. Simply put, don't engage in discussions that have nothing to do with seeing the movie and meeting him. Be prepared for him to blow you off until he understands that you are consistent and serious about your plans and you will execute them with or without his participation. Like a six year-old, he will want to be included and he may respond to the structure you're providing by being clear and firm in your decisions.
- Have no expectations of him and do not rely on him in any way for support, understanding, compassion or empathy. He's not capable of any of these things in any genuine sense. Keep him at arm's length emotionally and seek love, support and commiseration from other people. Six year-olds are great for playing and amusing you and coming up with funny things to say. They are not good at listening to other people's feelings or caring about them. They are six and they are the only person in the world that matters to them.
- If he upsets you, tell him firmly when you're going to disengage and then disengage. For example, you say, "I'm getting off the phone now. I have other things to do." He says, "Why? I didn't do anything. What do you mean by that? Why do you hate me? You always do this; you're so blah blah blah berate complain blah blah blah." Listen quietly and then say, "I am hanging up now, Keith. I will talk to you later. Goodbye." Then hang up. Do not explain, justify or open the door to a long discussion about why you make the choices you make. If he retaliates, allow him to retaliate - I'm assuming he retaliates by withdrawing and being passive aggressive. In other words, he pouts. Like a six year-old. Wait him out. He'll come back around when his "I love (you) and I need to see (you) RIGHT NOW" phase comes over him again in short order. Which it will, because, like a six year-old, he will start to feel bad that you are mad at him and will want you to stop being mad at him. He will be on his best behavior for a while. Then, well, I'm afraid it's rinse/repeat.
- Receive from him but do not respond in kind with more than "thanks." For example, he sends you a video. You send him one in return, and he pooh-poohs it. Well, don't send him a video in return. Simply send him a one line "Thanks for the link." You're polite to him but you do not allow for comparison of your video to his. Sounds silly, but let's remember - Keith is six years old and that means Keith's video is better than your video.
- If he goes on a judgmental tear about something, listen but do not engage. If he asks for input or commiseration or for your thoughts on the subject, simply say, "Hmmm. That's interesting; I'll need to think about it and get back with you." Then, just let it drop and don't get back with him. He's six years old and that means he doesn't really care about what you think, anyway. Plus, there will soon be something shiny over there that he needs to investigate.
- Get your own therapy to figure out why this guy is worth it to you beyond the fact that he has a child. There's a reason you're still in love with someone this inconsistent and difficult. There is a healthy, emotionally available, genuinely empathetic person out there for you. Find a way to find that guy, and leave Keith to deal with his own therapy without your involvement.
FWIW, I grew up around a person like this and I still have to deal with them. The above strategies have saved me alot of frustration over the past several years. With consistent reinforcement of behavior on his part that meets your requirements and rejection of behavior that doesn't, you may very well teach Keith that you are in charge of your own life and that you will not be steered off course because of his needs. Just like a six year old ultimately learns that, though they do not like it or understand it, they are not the boss, no matter how hard they try to manipulate their reality otherwise.
Truly best of luck. As for his child, well, I think the best you can hope for is that your consistent, even presence in his/her life will be an example of another, better way to be than Keith. Praise them, provide guidance and support, and make seeing you something they look forward to. Sounds harsh, but I don't think there's much you can do beyond that.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2008 [15 favorites]
Here are some things you might try if you insist on staying in Keith's life to be near his child:
- Set firm boundaries. Learn to control your interactions with him by being firm in your plans and the execution of them. Take the reins and do not relinquish them. For example, you might say, "I'm going to the movies Saturday at 8 o'clock. If you and (his child) want to come, meet me in front of the theater at 7:45." If he hems and haws and offers all sorts of weird resistance or complaint, simply listen and then go back to the original plan. "Okay, I hear you. So, I'm still going to the movies on Saturday. I hope I'll see you there at 7:45. Gotta run." And leave it at that. Simply put, don't engage in discussions that have nothing to do with seeing the movie and meeting him. Be prepared for him to blow you off until he understands that you are consistent and serious about your plans and you will execute them with or without his participation. Like a six year-old, he will want to be included and he may respond to the structure you're providing by being clear and firm in your decisions.
- Have no expectations of him and do not rely on him in any way for support, understanding, compassion or empathy. He's not capable of any of these things in any genuine sense. Keep him at arm's length emotionally and seek love, support and commiseration from other people. Six year-olds are great for playing and amusing you and coming up with funny things to say. They are not good at listening to other people's feelings or caring about them. They are six and they are the only person in the world that matters to them.
- If he upsets you, tell him firmly when you're going to disengage and then disengage. For example, you say, "I'm getting off the phone now. I have other things to do." He says, "Why? I didn't do anything. What do you mean by that? Why do you hate me? You always do this; you're so blah blah blah berate complain blah blah blah." Listen quietly and then say, "I am hanging up now, Keith. I will talk to you later. Goodbye." Then hang up. Do not explain, justify or open the door to a long discussion about why you make the choices you make. If he retaliates, allow him to retaliate - I'm assuming he retaliates by withdrawing and being passive aggressive. In other words, he pouts. Like a six year-old. Wait him out. He'll come back around when his "I love (you) and I need to see (you) RIGHT NOW" phase comes over him again in short order. Which it will, because, like a six year-old, he will start to feel bad that you are mad at him and will want you to stop being mad at him. He will be on his best behavior for a while. Then, well, I'm afraid it's rinse/repeat.
- Receive from him but do not respond in kind with more than "thanks." For example, he sends you a video. You send him one in return, and he pooh-poohs it. Well, don't send him a video in return. Simply send him a one line "Thanks for the link." You're polite to him but you do not allow for comparison of your video to his. Sounds silly, but let's remember - Keith is six years old and that means Keith's video is better than your video.
- If he goes on a judgmental tear about something, listen but do not engage. If he asks for input or commiseration or for your thoughts on the subject, simply say, "Hmmm. That's interesting; I'll need to think about it and get back with you." Then, just let it drop and don't get back with him. He's six years old and that means he doesn't really care about what you think, anyway. Plus, there will soon be something shiny over there that he needs to investigate.
- Get your own therapy to figure out why this guy is worth it to you beyond the fact that he has a child. There's a reason you're still in love with someone this inconsistent and difficult. There is a healthy, emotionally available, genuinely empathetic person out there for you. Find a way to find that guy, and leave Keith to deal with his own therapy without your involvement.
FWIW, I grew up around a person like this and I still have to deal with them. The above strategies have saved me alot of frustration over the past several years. With consistent reinforcement of behavior on his part that meets your requirements and rejection of behavior that doesn't, you may very well teach Keith that you are in charge of your own life and that you will not be steered off course because of his needs. Just like a six year old ultimately learns that, though they do not like it or understand it, they are not the boss, no matter how hard they try to manipulate their reality otherwise.
Truly best of luck. As for his child, well, I think the best you can hope for is that your consistent, even presence in his/her life will be an example of another, better way to be than Keith. Praise them, provide guidance and support, and make seeing you something they look forward to. Sounds harsh, but I don't think there's much you can do beyond that.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2008 [15 favorites]
If it's really as bad as you say, this can't feel good for you. Right? So I'm with 26.2. Don't try to help him. Don't even try to figure him out. (This is something deep-seated, so it doesn't matter what the actual diagnosis is.) You've told him once what you see going on. If you need to tell him one more time to make sure he heard you, do that. But make it an ultimatum: "this inconsistency is really hard on me. I feel hurt when you act scornful and I feel constantly on-edge from not knowing how you'll react to something. I need you to notice this and take concrete steps to try to change it, or else I cannot continue to be around you even as a friend." Then (after he shuts down, reacts angrily, or does nothing about it), alert his family that the kid needs some help, get yourself away from him, and then -- most important -- start asking yourself why you were in love with someone who treated you like this.
I think you should turn your fixer-upper attention to yourself. I know these will sound harsh, and maybe not all apply, but I honestly believe these are the questions you should be asking others and yourself. So, why not make these your next few Ask Me questions --
"I was in a relationship with someone who constantly acted judgmental, condemning, and scornful. Why didn't I notice how much this hurt? What would cause me to stay in denial about how bad this felt?"
"I have delusions that I can help other people overcome deep-seated psychological problems even though they refuse to even acknowledge an issue exists. How can I stop these delusions of grandeur? How can I have a realistic understanding of what I can control and cannot control?"
"I was in this relationship where I adapted by not having a fixed opinion about anything and constantly submitted myself to someone else's ever-changing standards. This made me crazy! How can I get back in touch with myself, with who *I* really am?"
"I recently got myself out of a very bad relationship. I suspect I'm attracted to people who are emotionally dangerous. How can I keep myself safe in my next relationship? How can I make sure I don't just go out of the frying pan into the fire? What are the danger signs and how can I get myself to be repelled by them instead of attracted by them?"
posted by salvia at 2:50 PM on March 23, 2008 [5 favorites]
I think you should turn your fixer-upper attention to yourself. I know these will sound harsh, and maybe not all apply, but I honestly believe these are the questions you should be asking others and yourself. So, why not make these your next few Ask Me questions --
posted by salvia at 2:50 PM on March 23, 2008 [5 favorites]
Not to diagnose over the net via hearsay, but:
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
is a serious mental illness characterized by pervasive instability in moods, interpersonal relationships, self-image, and behavior. This instability often disrupts family and work life, long-term planning, and the individual's sense of self-identity. Originally thought to be at the "borderline" of psychosis, people with BPD suffer from a disorder of emotion regulation....
While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day....
People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all.
I don't know that he needs therapy, but he sounds like he does. I know that if you stick close to him you are going to need therapy. I went through a couple of relationships like this back when I was horrifically depressed on a regular basis. It was torture. (I thought it was deserved.) Eventually I got past needing to associate with toxic people.
Good luck.
posted by dhartung at 2:54 PM on March 23, 2008
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
is a serious mental illness characterized by pervasive instability in moods, interpersonal relationships, self-image, and behavior. This instability often disrupts family and work life, long-term planning, and the individual's sense of self-identity. Originally thought to be at the "borderline" of psychosis, people with BPD suffer from a disorder of emotion regulation....
While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day....
People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all.
I don't know that he needs therapy, but he sounds like he does. I know that if you stick close to him you are going to need therapy. I went through a couple of relationships like this back when I was horrifically depressed on a regular basis. It was torture. (I thought it was deserved.) Eventually I got past needing to associate with toxic people.
Good luck.
posted by dhartung at 2:54 PM on March 23, 2008
Salvia: I think what you just advised should be required daily reading for those of us who unfortunately find ourselves attracted to "emotional predators" as described by anonymous. Very helpful - thank you.
posted by peace_love_hope at 3:02 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by peace_love_hope at 3:02 PM on March 23, 2008
He's trying to find a "Keith" that people will like.
Sounds like exactly the opposite. He is always reacting to whatever other people do so he can condemn them. It doesn't even matter what he "really" likes - he just doesn't like other people. He's obviously angry inside, and so argumentative. Whatever you do is wrong: if you hug him it's wrong and if you don't it's wrong - because you are just wrong.
I do this in much less extreme ways myself, sometimes, and am working on it, but it's something he should certainly be aware he is doing, and be working on in therapy. In a way it's a method for shutting himself off from people - they can't possibly understand him, they can't possibly connect, so, fuck them from the very start, whatever way they try to start. It's a defensive mechanism, a childish one, and something he needs to take seriously as a problem.
Whether you need to work on the problem with him is another question. I don't know your relationship with him, but it's possible this trait is even worse with you than with others if you broke off an engagement with him...
posted by mdn at 3:46 PM on March 23, 2008
Sounds like exactly the opposite. He is always reacting to whatever other people do so he can condemn them. It doesn't even matter what he "really" likes - he just doesn't like other people. He's obviously angry inside, and so argumentative. Whatever you do is wrong: if you hug him it's wrong and if you don't it's wrong - because you are just wrong.
I do this in much less extreme ways myself, sometimes, and am working on it, but it's something he should certainly be aware he is doing, and be working on in therapy. In a way it's a method for shutting himself off from people - they can't possibly understand him, they can't possibly connect, so, fuck them from the very start, whatever way they try to start. It's a defensive mechanism, a childish one, and something he needs to take seriously as a problem.
Whether you need to work on the problem with him is another question. I don't know your relationship with him, but it's possible this trait is even worse with you than with others if you broke off an engagement with him...
posted by mdn at 3:46 PM on March 23, 2008
IANAD but the first thing I thought of when I read your question was, "Borderline Personality Disorder." So yes, what dhartung said.
I had someone like this in my life. And hanging out with them was like gambling. Was I the most amazing person in the world? Or was I the worst person in the world? Is Noam Chomsky a genius? Is Noam Chomsky an idiot? UFO's are real? UFO's are bullsh*t? It's warm outside? It's cold outside?
And gambling is addictive.
If indeed this person suffers from BPD then you are never going to be able to help them. It is lovely to think that standing by them as they go through their ups and downs, happiness and depression, anger and joy, will make them get better. But there is a good chance that it won't. And their behavior could start affecting you.
I don't want to be an alarmist, and perhaps Keith is just facing some difficult times and the depression is affecting his personality, but please, watch out for yourself!
posted by suki at 5:00 PM on March 23, 2008
I had someone like this in my life. And hanging out with them was like gambling. Was I the most amazing person in the world? Or was I the worst person in the world? Is Noam Chomsky a genius? Is Noam Chomsky an idiot? UFO's are real? UFO's are bullsh*t? It's warm outside? It's cold outside?
And gambling is addictive.
If indeed this person suffers from BPD then you are never going to be able to help them. It is lovely to think that standing by them as they go through their ups and downs, happiness and depression, anger and joy, will make them get better. But there is a good chance that it won't. And their behavior could start affecting you.
I don't want to be an alarmist, and perhaps Keith is just facing some difficult times and the depression is affecting his personality, but please, watch out for yourself!
posted by suki at 5:00 PM on March 23, 2008
Um, could he be self medicating with anything else that you don't know about? I had a friend something like this. Wasn't until years later that I became aware of the substance abuse and I still probably only know the tip of the iceberg on that one..
posted by citron at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2008
posted by citron at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2008
Actually there are people who have multiple personality disorder (Or as it is known now, DID) who ARE aware of each of their differing personalities-it depends on the person. A close friend of mine has this and is in treatment (plus I work with a woman who counsels multiples) and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that your friend could have this.
One major clue-do you know if this person was severely abused as a young child, particularly sexually abused? That would be a big red flag.
posted by konolia at 6:23 PM on March 23, 2008
One major clue-do you know if this person was severely abused as a young child, particularly sexually abused? That would be a big red flag.
posted by konolia at 6:23 PM on March 23, 2008
Is it possible that he drinks? Or some other drug? No, seriously, people can hide shit a lot more than you think.
As for being more helpful, with the kid, is there other family whom can step in?
posted by kellyblah at 7:48 PM on March 23, 2008
As for being more helpful, with the kid, is there other family whom can step in?
posted by kellyblah at 7:48 PM on March 23, 2008
Continuing to support the BPD theory. Regardless of the specific type of personality d/o, he obviously needs treatment (his child would benefit from counseling, too). His lack of self awareness is impacting the development of his child's identity; guide them to help, now.
posted by moonbird at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2008
posted by moonbird at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2008
This seriously sounds like a major mental illness and general badness that you should get far away from.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:08 PM on March 25, 2008
posted by Jacqueline at 11:08 PM on March 25, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by klangklangston at 10:35 AM on March 23, 2008