Comments on: "And" versus "or"

Question: "And" versus "or"

tentacle — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:19:29 -0800

Proper choice of coordinating conjunction in a list. "And" versus "or."

I'm working with a document that uses a lot of lists constructed like "...may include at least one of A , B, [and/or?] C."

Each item in the list is a phrase, so reading the sentence can get confusing. Something like "...may include at least one of a frog, identifying a frog, a toad, identifying a toad, obtaining the tools required to catch a frog, [and/or?] a tank to keep a frog." The actual phrases are longer and don't necessarily have a sequential relationship.

Would "and" or "or" be the proper conjunction in this case? Since all of all of the items are not required, "and" seems incorrect, but since the items are not exclusive of one another, "or" seems incorrect. I would like to avoid using the "and/or" construction.

I can't find any grammar rules that specifically apply to this case. Thank you!!

By: beagle

beagle — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:31:53 -0800

The best way to deal with this is to avoid the construction altogether. So, I would restructure the sentence as:

". . . may include at least one of the following: a frog, identifying a frog, a toad, identifying a toad, obtaining the tools required to catch a frog, a tag to keep a frog." If the phrases are longer, separate them by a semicolon.

By: beagle

beagle — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:32:38 -0800

tank, not tag

By: headnsouth

headnsouth — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:38:48 -0800

"...may include at least one of the following: a frog, identifying a frog, a toad, identifying a toad, obtaining the tools required to catch a frog, and a tank to keep a frog."

The bulleted list can be your friend, too, as in:

"...may include at least one of the following:

- a frog
- identifying a frog
- a toad
- identifying a toad
- obtaining the tools required to catch a frog
- a tank to keep a frog."

You can use commas and a conjunction in a bulleted list, but you don't have to.

Whatever you decide to do, add it to your company's in-house style guide, so future documents use the same construction.

By: limeonaire

limeonaire — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:50:20 -0800

What if you add the word each? Or something similar earlier before you hit that end clause:

"...may include at least one each of A, B and C."

Alternately:

"...may include at least one of each of the following: A, B and C."

The sentence offered by beagle above sounds more exclusive to me, since it seems to imply that [most likely] only one of the things in the following list is included. So it's begging me to add an or to make it sound right.

Mine solves that problem by allowing you to use and just as something to make the list take proper form, not to alter the list's meaning. And each eliminates any possible false exclusivity.

By: laconic titan

laconic titan — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:51:11 -0800

Headnsouth has got it: I was reading your original question thinking that the main problem here is not which conjunction to use, but rather what to do about the lack of parallel structure in the list.

Headnsouth's solution fixes both, but I still found the "and" in the first suggestion a little iffy. Go with the bulleted list, man. Bulleted lists read easy.

By: limeonaire

limeonaire — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:51:54 -0800

headnsouth is right, though. A bulleted list, if possible, would be even more ideal.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:48:54 -0800

"And" is correct, because it's a complete list of the items from which the choice is to be made, but the whole setup is awkward; I agree with the bulleted-list idea. Clarity is good.

By: gjc

gjc — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:52:36 -0800

It is more simple than people are making it.

If the list is presented as a list of options, use or. If it's a monolithic group, use and.

"Choose one free option with purchase: mudflaps, undercoating or paint sealer."

as opposed to

"The Dealer Preferred Package includes mudflaps, undercoating and paint sealer."

or

"Billy, Suzie and Mary went to Woolworths to buy penny candy, but there was only one piece left."

as opposed to

"Because there was only one piece of candy left, only Billy, Suzie or Mary would get one."

In your specific case, since you are giving the option of choosing some or all, I think 'or' is correct, but "and/or" is more precise and clear. If I'm reading your usage correctly.

"Your solution must include at least one, but may include all, of the following: A, B, C and/or D."

By: oddman

oddman — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:17:36 -0800

I would go with Beagle's suggestion above. You could also say "Choose one or more of the following: A; B; C." The use of the semi-colon to separate elements of a list, especially if the elements will use commas for other grammatical needs, is appropriate and clear.

By: weapons-grade pandemonium

weapons-grade pandemonium — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:03:21 -0800

To get picky here, it doesn't make sense to say "may include at least one of the following" because the word "may" contradicts "at least". Say "may include" followed by the bullet list, or say "includes at least one of the following", followed by the bullet list.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:09:48 -0800

"Included in the list of items are:

Thing 1

Thing 2

Turbo Thing 3"

By: tentacle

tentacle — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:07:40 -0800

Thanks for all the suggestions. I would DEARLY love to go with a bulleted list, but it's a legal document and must follow certain conventions. That's also why the construction is so stilted and intentionally vague ("may... at least...").

I am leaning towards eliminating the conjunction and using the colon at the start of the list, but any further ideas are welcome!

By: yazi

yazi — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:26:05 -0800

Academic editor for 20 years (old, well-known publishers and journals). I second "Beagle", who has nailed it.

NB: The orig. text does produce a very slight ambiguity because it says "may" and "at least one". The phrase "at least" implies "one" or "more than one" and then "may" implies possibility of "zero". Yikes! "And" and "or" become useless. (I guess Engl. needs a subjunctive indef. pron.) Thus, Beagle's repunctuation helps enormously. If such change is not allowable, then "and" sounds better to me, although, because of the ambiguity, "or" is not entirely incorrect.

By: GPF

GPF — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:28:34 -0800

[...] [I]t's a legal document and must follow certain conventions.

Why does this exclude a bulleted list? The main convention for legal documents should be *clarity*.

If the judge, lawyer, client, or relevant rule insists on avoiding bulleted lists then I would avoid the construction altogether.

See generally, Plain English for Lawyers.