How to use the iPod shuffle

March 16, 2008 10:07 PM

How to use the iPod shuffle

I can't believe that I have to resort to MF for this but here it goes:

I hate Apple products but got on iPod shuffle as a present from my girl friend. I have managed to put some mp3s on it after installing iTunes, a nightmarish software.

* Is it possible to use the iPod and just drag and drop some mp3s in it with explorer or konquerer that the iPodt WILL ACTUALLY play? Without going to the iTunes nightmare?

* Can I actuall influence the order in how the songs are saved and played? Especially CAN I USE FOLDERS on the iPod shuffle?

After having played around with it for some hours I actually feel like trashing this thing and tell my girl friend that it got stolen.

Would prefer not to have other software installed for it (iTunes sucks, tried SharePod but this requires the .NET framework to work and so it goes on and on).

posted by yoyo_nyc to technology (27 comments total)

It might help if you told us what about iTunes makes you think it sucks. You can arrange songs by building playlists. This link might help.
posted by buriedpaul at 10:18 PM on March 16, 2008

Plain drag and drop will, as you are so joyously discovering, not work. It is, however, possible to use software other than iTunes to put music on an iPod that it will then actually deign to play.

Here, for instance, is a Winamp plugin that does it. Here's a whole forum about third-party support software for iPods.
posted by dansdata at 10:18 PM on March 16, 2008

Like GMail, you have to think differently when using iTunes/iPod. There are no folders, instead everything is in one giant list and you search for whatever you need. Once you find what you want, add it to a playlist. Repeat until your playlist has what you like, then arrange the playlist and save it.

You can create smart playlists which automatically update with new content based on filters for genre, rating, etc.

Why are playlists better than folders? If you have workout songs and party songs, and if there are any overlapping songs than having them in folders wastes space with duplicated songs. Having 2 playlists (workout, party) doesn't use any extra space for those duplicated songs - the same song is present in both lists.

As mentioned, you can also use other software to manager your iPod, available for Linux, Windows, etc. Some trivial googling will find many choices.
posted by jpeacock at 10:37 PM on March 16, 2008

* No you can't just put songs on it; some software has to build a playlist.

* Yes, once you've created a playlist and filled the Shuffle there is a switch on the Shuffle that lets you play either random or in order. No you can not use folders.
posted by nicwolff at 10:56 PM on March 16, 2008

Second Winamp, it's a great bit of software and avoids iTunes which I do rather dislike. I've never tried it with a shuffle but I can't see it not working. I use ml_ipod instead of the iPod management plugin that comes with it but it doesn't really matter, both of them work.

There's also ephPod which works on Windows (and theoretically on Linux, if you know how to use wine).
posted by katrielalex at 12:26 AM on March 17, 2008

You may want to try MediaMonkey, it syncs quite well with iPods and is a frequent haven for iTunes haters. Less bloat and more traditional PC feel/customization. iTunes is a fantastic music platform if and only if it is your only player. If you are a winamp or foobar or whatever person, and you only use iTunes occasionally to sync your iPod, it will be quite painful.

If you are not already a lover of podcasts, I would probably reccomend forgetting about the shuffle as a music player and just using it as a podcast vehicle. This is where iTunes really shines, imo. Goto iTunes store, subscribe to whatever stuff you might like (there are previous threads here on many great podcasts) and set them to update automatically and sync automatically to your shuffle. Podcast and smart playlist integration to my iPod were what finally convinced me to ditch everything else and let iTunes handle all my music.

I think it might just be the shuffle itself that is pissing you off with its extremely limited set of features. I would consider returning it and using the money to buy a Nano.
posted by sophist at 12:31 AM on March 17, 2008

There are a lot of useful tricks you can do with Smart Playlists. Especially if you use iTunes as your primary player, as noted. It does some nice things like add metadata to the tracks including last time played, last time skipped, and play count. You can also add a rating to each song (not sure if other players do this). I've been trying to get all my songs rated.

My favorite smart playlist is one which takes a random selection of 25 of my songs which are rated 4 or 5 stars, and haven't been played or skipped in the past week. It's one of the playlists I sync to my iPod, so I know I'll always have something I feel like listening to even if I can't carry around my whole library.

Seconding the Nano advice. One of its features is allowing you to set ratings. One of the other playlists I always sync is called "rate these": 25 songs with no rating. Once I rate them, next time I sync they're replaced in the playlist.
posted by lostburner at 1:09 AM on March 17, 2008

Also, regarding playlists: while the boolean logic support isn't very good, you can get whatever behavior you want by using sub-playlists and the "is in playlist" criteria, for example, a playlist containing:

25 songs that are:
***** and haven't been played in the past week OR
**** and haven't been played in the past month OR
*** and haven't been played in the past 3 months OR
** and haven't been played in the past year
posted by lostburner at 1:14 AM on March 17, 2008

Can I actuall influence the order in how the songs are saved and played? Especially CAN I USE FOLDERS on the iPod shuffle?

no. that's because it's an iPod Shuffle, whose purpose is to shuffle your tunes before playing them to you. the best you can do is copy the tunes on to it in the order you want to listen.
posted by russm at 2:37 AM on March 17, 2008

Not quite true -- it shuffles, but it can also go in order (there are two switch positions).

I have a Shuffle and iTunes; what don't you like about iTunes? I usually leave my Shuffle to play in order. I also have a playlist in iTunes where I drop any songs I want on it, and then I just drop the whole folder on it. It's pretty much drag and drop once iTunes recognizes your Shuffle.
posted by theredpen at 3:45 AM on March 17, 2008

I held off getting an iPod for a long time (thought it was to "trendy").. and once I got one I struggled really hating iTunes interface as well. Over time, as I played with it, I began to see that although it has some limitations, it really does what it does well. Now that my main laptop is a Macbook, its even more clear to my how well iTunes integrates into the overall "Mac" thought-process. (and thats saying alot coming from a 10year Windows veteran)

(The only thing I dont like is the fact I cant go down through my music list, play a single album and have it STOP when that album is done. (I dont use 'playlists'). Creating playlists for each album in my collection is NOT an option. (yes, my collection IS that big). There are probably apple scripts, but I access my collection from multiple OS's. Fodder for an upcoming ask.mefi I guess)
posted by jmnugent at 4:30 AM on March 17, 2008

The only thing I dont like is the fact I cant go down through my music list, play a single album and have it STOP when that album is done.

A) To do this in iTunes: make the Browser visible (either choose View > Show Browser or click the eye icon in the lower right. Select your album from the list at the top of your iTunes window, hit play, and you're done.

B) To do this on your iPod: This is the default behavior. If you navigate to an album, and then click a song from that album, it should just play that album and stop. The only way it plays more than one album is if you choose a song from a list that includes more than one album. (Quick tip: if you want to start playing a group of songs without selecting an individual song, you can click "play" while you have the artist, album, or playlist highlighted, instead of "select." For instance, if you have shuffle on, you can shuffle all your AC/DC albums by going to Artist > AC/DC and pressing play.)
posted by designbot at 5:17 AM on March 17, 2008

Thers probably someone out there whos unhappy that their USB stick player of equal or slightly lesser value (but greater utility) ISN'T a shuffle, I would try to find a way to arrange a swap with them.
posted by Artw at 6:40 AM on March 17, 2008

Thanks designbot , I cant believe I hadnt found that before. ( I historically refuse to use "media manager" type interfaces because they always seem to be ugly, and they always seem to want to auto-scan/auto-update/auto-manage my tracks, and i HATE HATE HATE not being in control. However I've got my iTunes set to "let me manage my files" and so far its handling my collection quite respectfully.)
posted by jmnugent at 6:45 AM on March 17, 2008

jmnugent: you can search for the album title, and it will pull up that album. hit play on track one and it will play the album, stopping when the album is done.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 6:51 AM on March 17, 2008

I have a 5G. I have a Shuffle. I have Windows. I have a Mac. Maybe I can help.

The Shuffle has a limited interface. This is intentional. It is intended to be a secondary device, in addition to a main music player, or an introductory device for people comfortable with limited options (or not ready to drop the cash for a more full-featured one). While you can use it as a primary music player, it's mostly designed for use during things like workouts, when you don't want to bother with anything except pressing play and letting it roll. iTunes sets it up with an "Autofill" option, which basically just randomly chooses music and throws it on the thing when you sync it. As I use mine for workouts, I have a playlist of music I want to hear, and tell iTunes to autofill the Shuffle with songs from this playlist. You can have playlists go in order, or shuffle them randomly; I like the shuffle mode here, but YMMV if you're adding whole albums, etc. rather than using Autofill. If this sort of thing is cool for you, well, keep the Shuffle. Otherwise, read on.

The iPods with clickwheel and menu options are actually damn handy music players. If the Shuffle annoys you, don't assume that the iPods with screens will be as annoying. They will let you pick and choose what you want to hear (by artist, album, genre, etc.) or by playlists (think of them as shortcuts to music - anything in a playlist is symlinked, not copied, so one song can be in every playlist, or in none at all). You also have the option of an "On The Go" playlist, which is simply any music you select on the iPod itself by holding the center button down for a few moments. This allows you to build a playlist with the iPod, rather than using iTunes to make one. Handy if you are not near your computer but want to hear a specific set of songs. If these kinds of function sound like something you might be happier with, by all means see if you can return or sell the Shuffle to get cash towards an iPod or other music player of your choice. My entire CD collection has been in a box in the basement for about two years now, all the music I own is on my iPod. I just plug it in to the stereo rather than messing with a CD changer. What with the new ones holding up to 120 gigs, you won't need CDs for anything except physical backup either. Now, on to the software itself:

iTunes is an Apple program. Thus, it is designed from the ground up to not fit on Windows. Apple is so proud of their user interface that they think everyone will love it. On a Mac, it fits in well, but on Windows it annoys me. Many times the thing just does not act as I expect it should; for example you can only delete music from your library within the main library list, not from within a playlist or other view (like Recently Played or Recently Added). You also can't drag files onto the Burn button to make a CD, you have to actually make a playlist first and then burn that. Why? Who knows. Other gripes: iTunes is a major memory hog, it forces you to also install Quicktime (which in turn takes over browser MIME settings for file types that it should leave the hell alone - PNG especially, but many others as well!) and the interface is weird for Windows users. That said, for music management it really is pretty easy. I have not found any other program that is as good at tagging music. Auto-fetching cover art is nice too, if that's important to you. I let iTunes manage my music for me, it's easy and it works with the three iPods my wife and I own. Especially as my wife would not likely be comfortable using third-party software for this; I like Winamp, but if it didn't work simply by plugging in the iPod, she would be annoyed. If you go this route be prepared to jump through hoops. Apple is good at making sure nothing aside from their own software will work as expected. However: I don't like iTunes as a music player. It's too memory intensive (on Windows) and seems to want to rebuild my library every time it opens on my Mac (probably because I sync it with my Windows iTunes library file). So, I use Winamp to play everything. It will find and index all of your music, if you let it, without moving it. On the Mac I use VLC; while it lacks the indexing features of Winamp (which I really miss! Pain to have to browse for albums manually) it is a lightweight open-source music and video player; like Winamp, it does what I want without getting in my way.

Lastly: I find that rating music is overrated. I don't have to add stars to remember what I like, and I don't bother with adding stars to tell iTunes what I do like. Even with 30 gigs of music it isn't that difficult for me to think "What do I want to hear today?", find it, and hit play. If you're not into micromanaging your digital life, skip the music rating. I go as far as tagging the files with artist and genre and cover art, but the people who add tags for mood and ratings and comments and so on are way more into it than I need to be at this point in my life.

So a summary:
1. The Shuffle is OK for random play of a limited amount of music but if you want more options get an iPod or other music player with graphic interface.
2. While iTunes does a good job of importing and organizing music, the interface is not intuitive for Windows users and the program itself can be fairly invasive. To limit the damage carefully go through the options for both iTunes and Quicktime (remembering to check browser MIME settings) and make sure your preferred music/video program is set as the default where appropriate.
3. To reduce memory footprint use some program other than iTunes as your default music player. While you can ditch iTunes completely and use Winamp for management, iTunes also checks for firmware updates for the iPod, so be prepared to do this manually from now on.

Worst case scenario, you're holding a 1gb-2gb flash memory device, which can also play music. It cost you nothing, and I'm sure your girlfriend did not intend it to be a source of annoyance for you. Apple does make some good hardware. You don't have to drink the Kool-Aid to appreciate the engineering, but the limitations of the Shuffle might not be for you.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:18 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]

explorer or konquerer

So, I'm assuming you have access to KDE? Install amarok. Not only is it a great player, it can interface with lots of devices, including iPod devices. I use it for my shuffle and it works great. There is also gtkpod which I used to use before amarok and it is fine piece of software for dealing with iPods too. And yes, I too dislike itunes and never use it for my shuffle.
posted by chrisroberts at 8:06 AM on March 17, 2008

Here's what you want. No iTunes, true drag-and-drop capability without any software whatsoever.
posted by jtfowl0 at 9:22 AM on March 17, 2008

errr....mean to say no installed software required, although apparently it now requires Python. There is an older, Win32 standalone version that I've used without any problems, though YMMV of course.
posted by jtfowl0 at 9:25 AM on March 17, 2008

Thx guys.

Glad nobody said that I am stupid.

I will try several options.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 10:07 AM on March 17, 2008

misanthropicsarah :

But what if I want to browse my entire music library while that specific album is playing?

What if I want to update album art and otherwise manage other albums while that chosen album is playing?

Everytime I try to do these things.. it clears my playlist (the album I'm listening to) or keeps skipping back to it as I'm trying to manage other tracks/albums. Very annoying.
posted by jmnugent at 11:58 AM on March 17, 2008

I tried designbot's suggestion of using the iTunes "Browser", and misanthropicsarah's suggestion of using the search function to just find one album.

However neither of those two options will allow me to listen to the album thats being played, AND manage other albums/tracks simultaneously.

With the Browser, if I try to go manage other tracks, the currently playing album stops when the active song finishes.

With the Search function, if I try to go manage other albums/tracks, everytime the currently playing song changes, it "pops" me back to the playing album, instead of leaving me alone where I'm at editing a different album.

Very frustrating. (sorry for the threadjack, just seems like there are knowledgeable iTunes people in this thread)

If iTunes is meant to be your "one and only music software"... why would they overlook such a basic feature of letting you play music and simultaneously edit other albums/tracks.
posted by jmnugent at 12:17 PM on March 17, 2008

Been there, had the same problem. Very frustrating. I tried 3rd party software, but the stuff that worked best was the stuff I liked least. I suggest gritting your teeth, load itunes a final time, and start fighting with it until it's put a bunch of great music on the shuflfe, then shut it down, breath, and enjoy the shuffle. Then find out how long it is until you want to change the music selection. If, like me, you're happy to listen to the same 200+ song selection for a month or more, then while itunes is a PITA, you're only messing with it every few months, so it's not such a big deal.

Note: disable itunes from loading when you plug your shuffle in, else it can mess with your music when all you wanted was to charge the shuffle.

Advantages: A shuffle (which involves no music navigation) plus annoying gatekeeper software that you hate (itunes) results in me spending way less time futzing around with my music, and more time listening to it. You just copy some across, and have no desire to keep messing with it and finetuning it. I think the time saved is probably worth the sub-optimal experience :-)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:04 PM on March 17, 2008

However neither of those two options will allow me to listen to the album thats being played, AND manage other albums/tracks simultaneously.

I see your issue now. iTunes selects the current range of songs to play based on what's showing in the window, and when you change the scope of what's visible to edit other tracks, you lose the restriction you're trying to impose of playing only one album.

I have a feeling there's a better way to do this, but just messing around with iTunes, I did come up with a workaround:

1) Create a new Smart Playlist that contains all of your music. The only condition for this would be something like "Limit to 100 GB selected by artist."

2) You can then double-click on that playlist to open a new iTunes window. You can play music from the playlist window and edit tracks in the main window, or vice versa. Changing views in one window won't affect the music playing from the other window, and you can just minimize the one you're not using to get it out of your way. Play, pause, forward, and back will control the currently-playing music from either window.

It's wonky, but it should do what you want.
posted by designbot at 3:44 PM on March 17, 2008

Sort of what designbot said, but a little easier:

In your full "music" list, do a search for the album you want to listen to (I just tested by typing "U2 War" for just one album).
Select all the songs from the album
Go to "File" and select "New Playlist from Selection"
A new playlist will be created, naming it by your search terms
Double-click on the new playlist, so that it opens in a new window.

Now you can listen to the album in the second window, without it affecting your main iTunes window at all.
When you are done listening to the album, just delete the temporary playlist.
posted by gemmy at 4:51 PM on March 17, 2008

jmnugent > would this script work? it claims to make a playlist of every album you have.
posted by Lucinda at 4:59 PM on March 19, 2008

Lucinda:

It would.. but that would also mean I'd have well over 1000 playlists to scroll down through on the lefthand side of iTunes... and thats not terribly managable.

gemmy and designbots suggestions are closer, but (I'm hard to please), I really dont want to "open a new window". (I know, I'm picky)

This is probably the main reason I stick with Winamp for now. It allows me to load whatever I want in the playlist, and let one album play while I modify/update other tracks albums. and it never steals the mouse pointer focus out from under me. I guess this is just the price I pay for 1) having a huge music collection and 2) being very particular about how all my filenames and ID3 tags should be. (right now I'm using 4 different programs to manage all my track/filename/ID3 info)
posted by jmnugent at 5:18 PM on March 19, 2008