Comments on: Questions on Law in printing Urbex book on sites without permission

Question: Questions on Law in printing Urbex book on sites without permission

grahamux — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:50:21 -0800

Some friends and I are into Urban Exploration. We're photographers who enjoy this subject quite a bit. We've been considering writing a book of pictures and a few stories of various sites we have done. I am curious if anyone knows the legal ramifications of publishing such a book? The idea is there would be pictures of sites we did not have permission to photograph. These are sites where 'no trespassing' signs have been clearly posted and alternative measures have been used to gain entrance. Note:: No breaking and entering or burgulary methods were used. Available entrances only. This question is on the legality of publishing said book, please no flames or discussion on the legal issues surrounding urbex itself. Thanks in advance.

By: Calloused_Foot

Calloused_Foot — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:57:01 -0800

These guys had a book published about the very topic - may want to try contacting them and seeing what their experiences were:

http://www.jinxmagazine.com/

By: Calloused_Foot

Calloused_Foot — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:58:27 -0800

Also, the late Ninjalicious published a zine, Infiltration for years - I don't recall him writing about encounters with the law outside of getting caught by the cops/security. Of course this isn't quite the same as a book.

By: sixcolors

sixcolors — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:58:45 -0800

You can also try asking people on the forum of this website.

http://www.infiltration.org/

Lots of neat stuff there.

By: grahamux

grahamux — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:01:06 -0800

Yeah, I was kind of hoping someone with some law experience in intellectual property and copyright would know. I know with human subjects, a release must be signed in some cases.

By: phil

phil — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:02:16 -0800

the folks who used to put out infiltration have published a book on the same topic, i would ask around on their foums and see what kind of issues they ran into.

By: logic vs love

logic vs love — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:20:24 -0800

For privately owned property, you're supposed to get a property release from the owner allowing you to use pictures. There is some info here.

By: WickedPissah

WickedPissah — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:28:32 -0800

Finally joined and now get to post.

Not a lawyer but dabble in photography. Property releases are pretty hotly contended from what I can gather but from the sounds of things if you do go and publish the book then you are opening yourself(ves) up for a lawsuit. Now whether the persons suing you have a case I think depends on how good a lawyer they have. Essentially the concept behind suing for photos of property is that you are copying a copyrighted building. And the whole copyrighted building part is what is being contended.

You could also be opening yourself to some potential legal action for your 'alternative' measures of entering the grounds.

See here.

Searching the above blog was pretty helpful.

Hope that helps a bit, good luck.

By: katemonster

katemonster — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:44:43 -0800

Legally speaking, even pushing open an unlocked door can constitute breaking and entering. Having someone else open the door for you is constructive B&E. I'm trying to figure out what else you might mean by "alternative measures" that would not violate the law.
I tell you this not to attack Urbex -- I don't really care about it one way or another. But it could cause some trouble in trying to publish. Your pictures would probably be considered as evidence of felonies. Just because you think you weren't breaking and entering doesn't mean you weren't. I would think the only publishers who would be willing to take you on would be small, alternative presses. Larger publishers are going to want releases, as logic vs. love points out, and are likely to shy away from the potential B&E/trespass issues.

By: Salvatorparadise

Salvatorparadise — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:02:27 -0800

if you're going to go as far as publishing a book of these places you're not supposed to be, it might be best to consult an attorney

By: seanmpuckett

seanmpuckett — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:48:21 -0800

You can get sued for anything.

If a photo is used as "art," even if sold for tens of thousands of dollars, basically the subject (or the subject's owner) can go hunt -- there have been many court cases on photography-as-art, and damn few of them have the photographer losing.

The other side of the coin: using a photo to sell a product. The case law here is also very clear: get a release, or lose your court case. I think, and IANAL, that a book falls quite squarely in the Art category instead of the Commercial category.

You should, however, check with an attourney, because you are worried and should be reassured.

By: sixcolors

sixcolors — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:41:24 -0800

Hmmm I thought you could take pictures of property, as long as its name is missing. That's really unfortunate if we can't.