Drive or fly on upcoming vacations?
March 9, 2008 11:53 AM Subscribe
Advice please on whether to drive or use airlines for two upcoming vacations my wife and I are planning. Issues involved are flying itself, the airlines, package deals. Beyond the decision itself any info related to the trips themselves, airline or money saving advice would be helpful.
I live in the general vicinity of Philadelphia, PA USA and the two vacations my wife and I are planning are to Disney World in Florida, and to the Grand Canyon area (this year and next respectively). We are not retired so vacation time is a factor, but so is money to some extent. We have driven to Disney World in the past, stopping over night, but I doubt we could get enough time off from work nor enjoy a drive to/from the Grand Canyon.
More specifically, I have never enjoyed flying, though I did a lot for business in the late 70's and early 80's, then I swore off. Seats tiny, bigger seats too costly, pressurization, some aspects of roller coaster rides which I also hate, possibility of bumps or weather delays or missed connections, etc.
Of course, now we're talking post 9/11 and since I haven't flown in 25 years I am totally out of tune with airports and airlines. I did an AskMe search before posting this question and my worries were only confirmed. Lots of vacation ruining possibilities appear to exist for those who do not know all the ins and outs of 21st century flying. I did not find (at least) any posts identical to this one.
My kind, loving wife would be willing to adapt to whichever decision I make (yes, she's a saint). But I don't want to continue to be a problem. Is there a way, armed with sufficient information and preparation, to make the airline experience bearable for me? I don't have to love the idea, but I also want to enjoy the vacations.
As for economics, I gather it's a little more clear cut (?). There's the cost of the mileage on the car including gas and depreciation vs. the cost of the airline tickets minus any savings due to package deals.
Flexibility the car wins, but it loses on sheer boredom (since we have to make time on the trips, we eventually have to get back to our jobs).
Thanks to everyone kind enough to read this long, sincere question, regardless of whether you had time to reply!
I live in the general vicinity of Philadelphia, PA USA and the two vacations my wife and I are planning are to Disney World in Florida, and to the Grand Canyon area (this year and next respectively). We are not retired so vacation time is a factor, but so is money to some extent. We have driven to Disney World in the past, stopping over night, but I doubt we could get enough time off from work nor enjoy a drive to/from the Grand Canyon.
More specifically, I have never enjoyed flying, though I did a lot for business in the late 70's and early 80's, then I swore off. Seats tiny, bigger seats too costly, pressurization, some aspects of roller coaster rides which I also hate, possibility of bumps or weather delays or missed connections, etc.
Of course, now we're talking post 9/11 and since I haven't flown in 25 years I am totally out of tune with airports and airlines. I did an AskMe search before posting this question and my worries were only confirmed. Lots of vacation ruining possibilities appear to exist for those who do not know all the ins and outs of 21st century flying. I did not find (at least) any posts identical to this one.
My kind, loving wife would be willing to adapt to whichever decision I make (yes, she's a saint). But I don't want to continue to be a problem. Is there a way, armed with sufficient information and preparation, to make the airline experience bearable for me? I don't have to love the idea, but I also want to enjoy the vacations.
As for economics, I gather it's a little more clear cut (?). There's the cost of the mileage on the car including gas and depreciation vs. the cost of the airline tickets minus any savings due to package deals.
Flexibility the car wins, but it loses on sheer boredom (since we have to make time on the trips, we eventually have to get back to our jobs).
Thanks to everyone kind enough to read this long, sincere question, regardless of whether you had time to reply!
I would say driving is the way to enjoy your trip. But due to your time constraint you would be better off flying (atleast in your trip to Arizona). Maybe you could drive to Florida.
posted by WizKid at 12:09 PM on March 9, 2008
posted by WizKid at 12:09 PM on March 9, 2008
Best answer: There are really only six major changes from how I remember flying in in 70s and 80s:
* When you book tickets online, you get an e-ticket -- or, essentially, a receipt. When you go to the ticket counter, you use a kiosk to print your boarding passes -- or you can print it at home when you check in online. If you're not checking bags, you can go straight to security.
* There's a new list of prohibitive items and what can be in a carry-on.
* When you go through security, it's required that you put your jacket and shoes through the x-ray -- it's not just if you make it beep. You also have to take computer equipment out of any carry-on bags to put through the x-ray.
* People who don't have boarding passes aren't allowed through security.
* You don't get a meal on the plane, but food in the airport terminals is much better now.
* No smoking! The quality of air on the planes is still bad, but it's so much better than in the days when the smoke would circulate through the planes. It's much more comfortable in the terminal for non-smokers, too. If you're a smoker, this may be the toughest change.
But all in all, it's not that much different. People say security lines take longer because of the regulations, but my family always got to the airport an hour early in the 80s anyway. Weather delays are still issues, although many airports are better than others. Since there are more non-stop flights now, though, missed connections are less common.
If you're flying Southwest, they have their own goofy boarding policies, but it's not a big deal -- they recently changed how they board planes, so everyone's still getting used to it and they explain everything at the gate.
Because of the cost of gas and the rather low cost of plane fares post-deregulation, it's almost invariable that you'll spend less on a plane trip than flying. The things you dislike about flying are still the case; seats are still small, first class is still costly (on most carriers -- some offer upgrades at the ticket counter for an extra cost), and it's still occasionally a roller coaster.
Not a whole people like flying these days for the comfort issues you name. I know I'd rather take a train. Still, most people, including myself, are willing to trade comfort for the time saving and low cost of flying. It's not that bad. Unless you really think a flight will bother you, flying's almost definitely the right thing to do.
posted by eschatfische at 12:18 PM on March 9, 2008
* When you book tickets online, you get an e-ticket -- or, essentially, a receipt. When you go to the ticket counter, you use a kiosk to print your boarding passes -- or you can print it at home when you check in online. If you're not checking bags, you can go straight to security.
* There's a new list of prohibitive items and what can be in a carry-on.
* When you go through security, it's required that you put your jacket and shoes through the x-ray -- it's not just if you make it beep. You also have to take computer equipment out of any carry-on bags to put through the x-ray.
* People who don't have boarding passes aren't allowed through security.
* You don't get a meal on the plane, but food in the airport terminals is much better now.
* No smoking! The quality of air on the planes is still bad, but it's so much better than in the days when the smoke would circulate through the planes. It's much more comfortable in the terminal for non-smokers, too. If you're a smoker, this may be the toughest change.
But all in all, it's not that much different. People say security lines take longer because of the regulations, but my family always got to the airport an hour early in the 80s anyway. Weather delays are still issues, although many airports are better than others. Since there are more non-stop flights now, though, missed connections are less common.
If you're flying Southwest, they have their own goofy boarding policies, but it's not a big deal -- they recently changed how they board planes, so everyone's still getting used to it and they explain everything at the gate.
Because of the cost of gas and the rather low cost of plane fares post-deregulation, it's almost invariable that you'll spend less on a plane trip than flying. The things you dislike about flying are still the case; seats are still small, first class is still costly (on most carriers -- some offer upgrades at the ticket counter for an extra cost), and it's still occasionally a roller coaster.
Not a whole people like flying these days for the comfort issues you name. I know I'd rather take a train. Still, most people, including myself, are willing to trade comfort for the time saving and low cost of flying. It's not that bad. Unless you really think a flight will bother you, flying's almost definitely the right thing to do.
posted by eschatfische at 12:18 PM on March 9, 2008
Unless you're absolutely gaga for I-95, you're better off flying.
I've never been on Amtrak, but if it's anything like the trains up here, it'll be every bit as cramped as an airplane, and even more bumpy, for a longer amount of time.
You don't get a meal on the plane, but food in the airport terminals is much better now.
This is true, but unless you're willing to pay ten dollars for a sandwich, you're better of just eating before you get to the airport, and bringing something to munch on in flight.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:27 PM on March 9, 2008
I've never been on Amtrak, but if it's anything like the trains up here, it'll be every bit as cramped as an airplane, and even more bumpy, for a longer amount of time.
You don't get a meal on the plane, but food in the airport terminals is much better now.
This is true, but unless you're willing to pay ten dollars for a sandwich, you're better of just eating before you get to the airport, and bringing something to munch on in flight.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:27 PM on March 9, 2008
Response by poster: FYI, my wife and I have 20 something kids, so no, we're not the drive all night types.
eschatfische, thanks for the detailed airline info and the link.
Thanks johngalt, I'll investigate the Amtrak idea, more options is a plus.
Wizkid you pretty much summarized in far fewer words what I was thinking, including the compromise of drive Florida and fly to the canyon.
Two other things your answers make me think of:
I hadn't thought of my iPod for watching videos with noise cancelling headphones (thanks for that too johngalt). However I had thought there was all this stuff about electronic device use during flights. I gather iPod use is OK (???).
I know I talked to someone at a party recently who said he had his company FedEx everything for his business trips (including his extra set of clothes and toiletries) to/from his hotel at their expense just to avoid having anything with him when he flew (no carry on or checked luggage), other than a book. Seemed extreme and costly but definitely thinking outside the box.
posted by forthright at 1:36 PM on March 9, 2008
eschatfische, thanks for the detailed airline info and the link.
Thanks johngalt, I'll investigate the Amtrak idea, more options is a plus.
Wizkid you pretty much summarized in far fewer words what I was thinking, including the compromise of drive Florida and fly to the canyon.
Two other things your answers make me think of:
I hadn't thought of my iPod for watching videos with noise cancelling headphones (thanks for that too johngalt). However I had thought there was all this stuff about electronic device use during flights. I gather iPod use is OK (???).
I know I talked to someone at a party recently who said he had his company FedEx everything for his business trips (including his extra set of clothes and toiletries) to/from his hotel at their expense just to avoid having anything with him when he flew (no carry on or checked luggage), other than a book. Seemed extreme and costly but definitely thinking outside the box.
posted by forthright at 1:36 PM on March 9, 2008
other than at take-off and during landing, most electronics (other than cell phones) are allowed.
I second the noise cancelling headphones, I find that they reduce the stress of flying for me by about 75%... I just zone out....
posted by HuronBob at 1:50 PM on March 9, 2008
I second the noise cancelling headphones, I find that they reduce the stress of flying for me by about 75%... I just zone out....
posted by HuronBob at 1:50 PM on March 9, 2008
I gather iPod use is OK (???).
Oh god, yes! It's just during takeoff and landing that they tell you to turn them off. You can also use your laptop, and, depending on the airline, your cellphone as well.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:52 PM on March 9, 2008
Oh god, yes! It's just during takeoff and landing that they tell you to turn them off. You can also use your laptop, and, depending on the airline, your cellphone as well.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:52 PM on March 9, 2008
I hadn't thought of my iPod for watching videos with noise cancelling headphones (thanks for that too johngalt). However I had thought there was all this stuff about electronic device use during flights. I gather iPod use is OK (???).
Use of radios are prohibited -- and that includes cell phones these days, but they're allowed on the flight as long as they're turned off. Non-radio portable electronic devices (like iPods) are allowed, but the pilot will ask that they be stowed and turned off during takeoff and landing.
I know I talked to someone at a party recently who said he had his company FedEx everything for his business trips [...] Seemed extreme and costly but definitely thinking outside the box.
Yeah, I don't think that sort of thing is the norm. Carry-ons and checked bags have always been hassles on planes, and it's certainly no better today than it was, but they can be hassles on trains and buses as well.
I realized I forgot one thing -- luggage locks are no longer allowed so that your luggage can be inspected. If you send a bag through with locks, and the bags get picked for inspection, you may get the luggage back with the locks broken.
posted by eschatfische at 1:53 PM on March 9, 2008
Use of radios are prohibited -- and that includes cell phones these days, but they're allowed on the flight as long as they're turned off. Non-radio portable electronic devices (like iPods) are allowed, but the pilot will ask that they be stowed and turned off during takeoff and landing.
I know I talked to someone at a party recently who said he had his company FedEx everything for his business trips [...] Seemed extreme and costly but definitely thinking outside the box.
Yeah, I don't think that sort of thing is the norm. Carry-ons and checked bags have always been hassles on planes, and it's certainly no better today than it was, but they can be hassles on trains and buses as well.
I realized I forgot one thing -- luggage locks are no longer allowed so that your luggage can be inspected. If you send a bag through with locks, and the bags get picked for inspection, you may get the luggage back with the locks broken.
posted by eschatfische at 1:53 PM on March 9, 2008
Electronic devices are prohibited during taxi and take off, but once the plane reaches 10,000 feet of altitude you're allowed to use everything except a cellular phone. Conversely, on descent the devices must be turned off below 10,000 feet. The pilot or lead flight attendant announces when it's safe to use your electronic devices and when it's time to turn them off. It often corresponds to when they turn off the light signifiying that seatbelts are mandetory.
If you have a laptop, you're supposed to turn off the wireless access switch to avoid interfering with the plane's ground communications system. If you have a phone with other functions, you can use the latter so long as you have the telecommunications features turned off. Recently the airlines began allowing passengers to use their cell phones after landing during the taxi to the terminal; this exception to the above will also be announced by the flight crew.
BTW, noise cancelling headphones still help muffle the plane engines during takeoff/landing so many people wear them with the switch in the off position. I make sure the flight attendants can see the little switch box easily so they also see that the on-light isn't illuminated.
Another consideration: risk per person-air-mile is much lower than risk per person-auto-mile.
Have fun!
posted by carmicha at 2:02 PM on March 9, 2008
If you have a laptop, you're supposed to turn off the wireless access switch to avoid interfering with the plane's ground communications system. If you have a phone with other functions, you can use the latter so long as you have the telecommunications features turned off. Recently the airlines began allowing passengers to use their cell phones after landing during the taxi to the terminal; this exception to the above will also be announced by the flight crew.
BTW, noise cancelling headphones still help muffle the plane engines during takeoff/landing so many people wear them with the switch in the off position. I make sure the flight attendants can see the little switch box easily so they also see that the on-light isn't illuminated.
Another consideration: risk per person-air-mile is much lower than risk per person-auto-mile.
Have fun!
posted by carmicha at 2:02 PM on March 9, 2008
nobody likes to fly. it's undoubtedly quicker and that's all there is to it.
driving can be fun or not depending on whether you
(a) like it or see it as a chore and
(b) like spending time with your s/o in a confined space.
you could take a look at the scenic byways website and plan a relaxing trip along americas backroads. making an effort to stay clear of the bland interstates and major highways could transform the journey into a vacation itself and would warrant bringing a camera for itself. but again, if you don't enjoy this sort of thing, you might as well bite the bullet and jump onto a plane.
by the way: there is a fantastic heliopter operator called papillon offering tours around the grand canyon. check out this youtube video or this one or this one.
posted by krautland at 2:14 PM on March 9, 2008
driving can be fun or not depending on whether you
(a) like it or see it as a chore and
(b) like spending time with your s/o in a confined space.
you could take a look at the scenic byways website and plan a relaxing trip along americas backroads. making an effort to stay clear of the bland interstates and major highways could transform the journey into a vacation itself and would warrant bringing a camera for itself. but again, if you don't enjoy this sort of thing, you might as well bite the bullet and jump onto a plane.
by the way: there is a fantastic heliopter operator called papillon offering tours around the grand canyon. check out this youtube video or this one or this one.
posted by krautland at 2:14 PM on March 9, 2008
Let me suggest JetBlue as an excellent airline for someone who is not fond of flying. The seats are wider than normal, and the leg room is much better. They also have little TVs in the back of the seat in front of you with a DirectTV connection, so you can choose from several dozen channels of actual TV to watch (although about a third of them are ESPN flavors). They also provide a nice selection of snacks (which is really all you will need on such a short flight). Not sure if they are convenient for where you are going, but it was easily the best domestic flying experience I've had in years when I flew them for the first time recently.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:28 PM on March 9, 2008
posted by Rock Steady at 2:28 PM on March 9, 2008
When are you thinking of visiting? You are on the tail end of high season in Florida right now so everything is going to be expensive. After the snowbirds go home it is spring break for colleges through about the first or 2nd week of April. After that would be a better time to come to Florida. Prices come down and the weather isn't horrible yet. It is almost unbearable in July and August so avoid Florida then if you can. Lots of thunderstorms and high temps. The other really nice time to visit is September/October. Technically that is hurricane season but really the hurricanes don't start pounding usually until the end of October. Time your visit so there are less visitors (not high season) and the weather is okay. March is a gorgeous time to be in Florida but you will be paying a lot since it is still high season.
posted by 45moore45 at 3:05 PM on March 9, 2008
posted by 45moore45 at 3:05 PM on March 9, 2008
Response by poster: Wow, I appreciate the wide variety of facts and options!
45moore45 the Florida trip is flexible, sometime this year when we can both get time off from our jobs...I guess early May or late September would work for us and still not be too hot (?). The trip out West would be next year or later.
Rock Steady it looks like for us to use JetBlue we'd either have to fly out of New York NY or Newark NJ instead of Philadelphia, but I'll keep it in mind as a possibility.
Thanks for all who took time to help!
posted by forthright at 4:24 PM on March 9, 2008
45moore45 the Florida trip is flexible, sometime this year when we can both get time off from our jobs...I guess early May or late September would work for us and still not be too hot (?). The trip out West would be next year or later.
Rock Steady it looks like for us to use JetBlue we'd either have to fly out of New York NY or Newark NJ instead of Philadelphia, but I'll keep it in mind as a possibility.
Thanks for all who took time to help!
posted by forthright at 4:24 PM on March 9, 2008
Just my opinion. 5 hours in a plane seat is much more comfortable than 20-40 hours in a car spread out over a few days. Roadtrips are tolerable as long as you can get off the soul-sucking tedious void of intellectual and cultural stagnation that is the U.S. interstate system.
The other caveat that I'd mention in regards to airport security is to bring a driver's license or passport with you, and make certain that your boarding passes are issued in the same name as your ID. My father almost got stranded because someone bought his plane ticket using a nickname.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:21 PM on March 9, 2008
The other caveat that I'd mention in regards to airport security is to bring a driver's license or passport with you, and make certain that your boarding passes are issued in the same name as your ID. My father almost got stranded because someone bought his plane ticket using a nickname.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:21 PM on March 9, 2008
Jet blue also flies out of atlantic city. A little less crazy than newark.
posted by filmgeek at 7:29 PM on March 9, 2008
posted by filmgeek at 7:29 PM on March 9, 2008
If I was going to fly for one trip and drive the other, I'd drive on the Grand Canyon trip. You will probably want to do a lot of driving to explore this area anyhow, and if you drive you can go through some beautiful areas of Utah and Colorado. The north rim might be a shorter trip for you than the south, and it's less crowded as well as near Zion, Bryce Canyon, and many lesser known but still beautiful parts of Utah like the Valley of the Gods and Arches.
If the prospect of spending hours talking with your spouse in the car inspires boredom, you might prefer to fly. Personally, I've found going on road trips to be a great bonding experience with people most of the time, and a getting to find out more about people that I would prefer not to spend a few days with in a row experience once or twice. You will also find that driving is a different experience once you get out of the city. Different in a good way for some, in a bad way for others.
posted by yohko at 12:45 AM on March 10, 2008
If the prospect of spending hours talking with your spouse in the car inspires boredom, you might prefer to fly. Personally, I've found going on road trips to be a great bonding experience with people most of the time, and a getting to find out more about people that I would prefer not to spend a few days with in a row experience once or twice. You will also find that driving is a different experience once you get out of the city. Different in a good way for some, in a bad way for others.
posted by yohko at 12:45 AM on March 10, 2008
Best answer: Don't ever take the last flight of the day on a particular airline - if it's canceled, you're screwed. The airlines often don't have to provide you with a hotel room or meals (it depends on why the flight was canceled.) If you know all the ins and outs of airline flying, you might find good alternatives, but that's not your case.
Don't take a connecting flight if you can fly direct. Connecting flights double the chances of something going wrong.
If you're going to fly Southwest (they are pretty good), don't wait until you get to the airport to get a boarding pass - use their on-line boarding pass option, and do it as close to 24 hours in advance of the flight departure as you can. That way, you'll get a lower boarding number and board earlier, so there will be more open seats and more options. If you're flying an airline that allows you to select seats in advance (that's the norm), open a window for the site SeatGuru.com, which will warn you about really bad seats, while you're doing seat selection in another window on your computer.
And take a look at InsideTrip.com; it's a brand new site that tells you things like on-time arrival; it can be helpful in picking a site. (It doesn't have Southwest because Southwest isn't included at Orbitz.com, the booking engine that the site uses.)
posted by WestCoaster at 7:43 AM on March 10, 2008
Don't take a connecting flight if you can fly direct. Connecting flights double the chances of something going wrong.
If you're going to fly Southwest (they are pretty good), don't wait until you get to the airport to get a boarding pass - use their on-line boarding pass option, and do it as close to 24 hours in advance of the flight departure as you can. That way, you'll get a lower boarding number and board earlier, so there will be more open seats and more options. If you're flying an airline that allows you to select seats in advance (that's the norm), open a window for the site SeatGuru.com, which will warn you about really bad seats, while you're doing seat selection in another window on your computer.
And take a look at InsideTrip.com; it's a brand new site that tells you things like on-time arrival; it can be helpful in picking a site. (It doesn't have Southwest because Southwest isn't included at Orbitz.com, the booking engine that the site uses.)
posted by WestCoaster at 7:43 AM on March 10, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
I can imagine the car trek to the grand canyon if you are in your early 20s...cross country road trip...have you looked at a map of the country? The grand canyon is almost all the way to California. Theres got to be tons of cheap flights from Philly to Las Vegas...rent a $30 car and go see the Grand Canyon...We travel frequently with our 3 children from 1-7 years old, and have taken them to Europe twice...no problems. Always think probibility when you fly. We always hear about the bad airline experiences, but never about the good ones.
For the airplane to Las vegas... Get a pair of noise canceling head phones and a riveting audio book (or a few TV episodes on your ipod...I think I watched 8 episodes of the West Wing on my way to Germany from Denver).
posted by johngalt at 12:09 PM on March 9, 2008