No he or she, just us
March 4, 2008 4:28 AM Subscribe
Are there any languages that do not contain gender-specific pronouns? (no he's or she's, just 'it')
There are many, and plenty reside in the Pacific Ocean. The biggest one that comes to mind is Tagalog. The World Atlas of Language Structures has an entire map dedicated to this. Check out page 184.
posted by Alison at 4:54 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by Alison at 4:54 AM on March 4, 2008
Estonian.
posted by penguin pie at 5:18 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by penguin pie at 5:18 AM on March 4, 2008
Well, I was gonna pop in and say Swahili, since the way it's typically spoken uses neutral subject and object affixes, but since it's not on Utilitaritron's list, I fear I may be missing something.
Anyway, Swahili, at least sort of. See details on the Wikipedia page. The standard 3rd person subject prefix, a-, and the standard 3rd person object affix, -mwa-, are both gender neutral. They're not exactly like pronouns in Western languages, but they are what you'd rely on in most day-to-day use.
posted by rkent at 5:55 AM on March 4, 2008
Anyway, Swahili, at least sort of. See details on the Wikipedia page. The standard 3rd person subject prefix, a-, and the standard 3rd person object affix, -mwa-, are both gender neutral. They're not exactly like pronouns in Western languages, but they are what you'd rely on in most day-to-day use.
posted by rkent at 5:55 AM on March 4, 2008
Hindi. The pronouns distinguish "this guy here" and "that guy there" but not "he" and "she."
I don't think Utilitaritron's list is supposed to be complete and authoritative.
posted by kittyprecious at 6:07 AM on March 4, 2008
I don't think Utilitaritron's list is supposed to be complete and authoritative.
posted by kittyprecious at 6:07 AM on March 4, 2008
Farsi. No "he" or "she", just "that person."
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 6:09 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 6:09 AM on March 4, 2008
Wolof, spoken in the Senegambian region of West Africa. It applies "gender" to nouns - but has nine groups rather than the simple masculine and feminine of Romance languages. When speaking of people, though, there is no "he" or "she." One must specify "that man" or "that woman" if context doesn't make the gender clear.
posted by itstheclamsname at 6:27 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by itstheclamsname at 6:27 AM on March 4, 2008
Spoken Chinese has no difference between he, she and it in the singular version or plural. Written Chinese does distinguish though.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:38 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by Pollomacho at 6:38 AM on March 4, 2008
This is totally an unverified anecdote, but I heard a speaker of (Portugal) Portuguese was confused by a (Brazil) student's confounding grammar mistakes. Regardless of the situation, the student would always use the same gender of pronoun. Eventually the professor discovered that while Portuguese of Portugal has pronouns for each gender, Brazilian Portuguese has only one.
Now, this story was told to me in English by a German, so I'm not entirely sure if anything got lost in the multiple translations. But a quick Googling couldn't confirm/deny, so it might be bear investigation for those interested.
posted by Nelsormensch at 6:57 AM on March 4, 2008
Now, this story was told to me in English by a German, so I'm not entirely sure if anything got lost in the multiple translations. But a quick Googling couldn't confirm/deny, so it might be bear investigation for those interested.
posted by Nelsormensch at 6:57 AM on March 4, 2008
In Chinese there is a distinction between he/she and it, but none between he and she as far as the spoken language is concerned. They use Ta for both with the same tone, but there is usually a clear indication within the context of the sentence, its also why often times you will have Chinese English speakers who are otherwise incredibly good mistake gender as it is not a natural thought process for them.
posted by BobbyDigital at 7:04 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by BobbyDigital at 7:04 AM on March 4, 2008
This is totally an unverified anecdote, but I heard a speaker of (Portugal) Portuguese was confused by a (Brazil) student's confounding grammar mistakes. Regardless of the situation, the student would always use the same gender of pronoun. Eventually the professor discovered that while Portuguese of Portugal has pronouns for each gender, Brazilian Portuguese has only one.
Not true at all. Brazilian and European portuguese do have some differences (use of the gerund, form of the second person, etc.) but not in pronoun gender!
posted by vacapinta at 7:12 AM on March 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Not true at all. Brazilian and European portuguese do have some differences (use of the gerund, form of the second person, etc.) but not in pronoun gender!
posted by vacapinta at 7:12 AM on March 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
i can speak cantonese and i can tell you that it doesn't :)
we simply refer to people with a word that means the 2nd/3rd person
posted by Jack Feschuk at 7:14 AM on March 4, 2008
we simply refer to people with a word that means the 2nd/3rd person
posted by Jack Feschuk at 7:14 AM on March 4, 2008
Eventually the professor discovered that while Portuguese of Portugal has pronouns for each gender, Brazilian Portuguese has only one.
This is complete crap (see the thorough discussion in this Wikipedia article). Please do not pass on vaguely remembered urban legends; they don't help people find answers. Thanks.
posted by languagehat at 7:16 AM on March 4, 2008
This is complete crap (see the thorough discussion in this Wikipedia article). Please do not pass on vaguely remembered urban legends; they don't help people find answers. Thanks.
posted by languagehat at 7:16 AM on March 4, 2008
This is complete crap (see the thorough discussion in this Wikipedia article). Please do not pass on vaguely remembered urban legends; they don't help people find answers. Thanks.
Ouch, that was harsh. What I said wasn't a "vaguely remembered urban legend," but I clearly remembered anecdote from an (admittedly) disreputable source. Now if that wasn't sufficient warning or inappropriate, mea culpa, but it's not as if I claimed pop rocks and Pepsi will make your stomach explode. More apologies for the derail and I'll stay out of this thread further.
posted by Nelsormensch at 8:53 AM on March 4, 2008
Ouch, that was harsh. What I said wasn't a "vaguely remembered urban legend," but I clearly remembered anecdote from an (admittedly) disreputable source. Now if that wasn't sufficient warning or inappropriate, mea culpa, but it's not as if I claimed pop rocks and Pepsi will make your stomach explode. More apologies for the derail and I'll stay out of this thread further.
posted by Nelsormensch at 8:53 AM on March 4, 2008
Yeah, that was excessively harsh, sorry. It just gets my goat when people make wild out-of-left-field suggestions in language threads even though other people are providing actual answers, and a disreputable-source warning doesn't make it helpful. But I should have been nicer about it.
posted by languagehat at 9:45 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by languagehat at 9:45 AM on March 4, 2008
Pollomacho -- the distinction between male/female/inanimate 'ta' (他/她/它) is actually pretty recent; if I recall correctly it was one of the changes to the language introduced by reformers who thought that the language should have European-style gendered pronouns. There was also a variant form of the second-person 'ni' 你, 妳, but this never really caught on in Mainland China, though you'll still see it sometimes in HK/Taiwanese usage.
Along similar lines, there were also variant pronoun forms made by missionaries for use when referring to Jeebus -- 袮 and 祂, both incorporating the 示/礻"altar" element.
posted by bokane at 11:20 AM on March 4, 2008
Along similar lines, there were also variant pronoun forms made by missionaries for use when referring to Jeebus -- 袮 and 祂, both incorporating the 示/礻"altar" element.
posted by bokane at 11:20 AM on March 4, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Wolfdog at 4:37 AM on March 4, 2008