Homekeeping

February 22, 2008 12:13 PM

We put blood, sweat, and tears into our Canadian apartment. We moved to Chicago for school, and roommates are leaving earlier than agreed. Looks like we might lose a place we cherish and need. Help?

Background: My partner and I moved into a Toronto apartment in 2004, with an old and very close friend (let's call him Jeff). It was a shithole warehouse that we tore down and built back up into something beautiful, with Jeff's help. We all put time, energy, lots of money, and lots of love into making the place what it is, and it means a lot to us. We spent three years of happiness together there, and it is home. Everything we own that we cherish, including thousands of books, movies, and 12 years of history, is in that apartment.

In 2007, we left Toronto to go to Chicago, where I am from, and my partner is attending grad school. The agreement was that Jeff and another close friend of ours (let's say Gordie) would stay in the place for at least two years, holding it down until grad school was over.

Everyone was pleased with this arrangement, and we knew what a lucky break we got. We could rest easy, our home was secure for at least another two years. We didn't have to move our volumes of books, or our wealth of artwork and history.

But a few months ago, Jeff decided to let us know he was moving into his girlfriend's very nice house. Ok, we could work with that, find a replacement for Jeff and let Gordie stay on. But today...Jeff did something we consider vile, particularly in light of our 12 year history with him. He and his girlfriend offered Gordie an incredibly cheap room in their house, which wants to take. Obviously, this makes everything much, much more difficult.

Besides feeling betrayed, this puts us in a dilemma. If we find replacement roommates, they will be strangers, and they'll be strangers in an apartment laden with our personal histories. We can't afford to put our personal items in storage. There are too many, and we're already up to our necks in bills. Money's tight. Moving our stuff down to Chicago would cost thousands, and be temporary.

We want to keep this place, we want it to be ours when we eventually return. We're in a tight bind. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

posted by Lieber Frau to human relations (36 comments total)

Is a 5'x10' storage space at $70 a month (if that, I don't know the rates up there) for your most cherished possessions (books and movies, from the sound of it) really out of the question?
posted by MillMan at 12:19 PM on February 22, 2008

Cherished Possessions Include:

Many paintings. Large artworks. Thousands of Books. Furniture, including a large sofa, a bed, and several tables. Written work.

In short, yes.
posted by Lieber Frau at 12:24 PM on February 22, 2008

Sublet a furnished apartment?
posted by chunking express at 12:27 PM on February 22, 2008

No chance of some family member moving in?
posted by aramaic at 12:29 PM on February 22, 2008

We're looking around, but I don't think so. :(
posted by Lieber Frau at 12:30 PM on February 22, 2008

Re: Chungking.

I should mention, we need this to be a situation where we can drop in occasionally when we visit family or are on breaks. So while I imagine we COULD find a stranger to let us sublet and occasionally stay in our place, I think it would be difficult.
posted by Lieber Frau at 12:35 PM on February 22, 2008

Were you giving your friends a good deal on the place? If you can rent it to strangers for even a few hundred more a month that might cover storage costs.
posted by MillMan at 12:35 PM on February 22, 2008

NEVER EVER EVER EVER do business with friends. If you're wishy-washy about what is considered "business" and what is not, use the "screw rule". If they are in a position to screw you over, resulting in a big loss of money, its business.

Never make business with friends. Making friends through business is a safer bet. If you do business with them, you only end up making friends with them if you and they share the same principles of doing business. That works out. The other way around doesn't...which you have just learned the hard way.

ANYWAYS...

First of all, my condolences. Your "close friends" suck butt. It seems as if you didn't have any written contract with them, and you aren't the type of friends to take this to a court relying on "verbal agreement". Jeff and Gordie are total butt suckers for taking advantage of that.

What explanation did gordie and jeff give to you guys for this? If Gordie's answer was "my girl" or whatever, couldn't he have told you there was a possibility for this in the future when you made the deal with him...LESS THAN A YEAR AGO? He basically put you to the curb for his girlf, so not cool. And Gordie...he basically put you out on the street for lower rent or something. Did you see how he put money in front of friendship? AGAIN, thats not a situation you want to be in.

Well, I'm assuming that since you're writing here, you really are stuck, and aren't the type of people who would go back to CA and beat them up, evict them immediately, and burn all their stuff. You also probably haven't said a mean word to them, so you're PROBABLY still on VERY VERY VERY good terms with them.

The ONLY option I see you guys having is GUILT. You can't guilt them into staying, but you can TOTALLY guilt them into finding a solution for you. Not a 'stranger" from craigslist or something. But they should have some good friends or family or someone who would be willing to take over the apt for you. I mean, if its as good as you claim it is (besides the sentimentality), it should be damned easy to find a replacement (that your "close friends" trust).

THIS TIME THOUGH...have them take a picture of EVERYTHING. ABSOLUTELY everything. Make GORDIE AND JEFF sign a contract with YOU that says if ANYTHING. ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING is ruined, missing, damaged...GORDIE AND JEFF will be responsible for payment.

That will serve a few purposes:
1.Gordie and Jeff will realize they screwed you and now you don't trust them.
2.You will have a written contract.
3.You will have a guarantee from both of them of compensation if said property is destroyed.
4.Gordie and Jeff will totally put some effort into finding friends/family that they actually TRUST because of the contract you are making them sign.

If they're not willing to do that. I suggest you go back to Toronto, to burn their stuff, evict, etc. I mean you'll have to go back there anyways to move your stuff if they don't anyways. You might as well show them that you guys aren't some pushovers.

But seriously...my sympathies.
posted by hal_c_on at 12:36 PM on February 22, 2008

You move back into the place in Toronto, and have your partner find a cheap room in a group house to crash in for the duration of his/her Chicago grad school time. S/he comes back to Toronto as often as possible, and acts the role of a commuter grad student, not a resident grad student.

Meanwhile, you are living in your old place in Toronto, and you could find a roommate to help with the money during that time period, but since you would be on-site it wouldn't be as dangerous as having all complete strangers in your home with you not being there.

As an aside: Is the place in Toronto a rental? (You spent time/energy/money to demo and fix up a rental?) Or is this a place that you own but you're worried about being able to make the mortgage?
posted by mccxxiii at 12:39 PM on February 22, 2008

Betrayal? Maybe they're tired of being the caretakers for all your infinitely valuable stuff.

Climate controlled storage is available. Bang it in there and sublet it for enough to cover your storage costs. Or see if your soon to be former roommates would help you sell some of the things that will be difficult to store.
posted by electroboy at 12:41 PM on February 22, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

You call it an "apartment" but it sounds like you have some long-term ownership interest. It sounds like Jeff and Gordie were paying part of the "rent" (or mortgage, or whatever) and the implication is that you can't afford to pay the rent on your place in Toronto as well as your place in Chicago.

Do Jeff and Gordie know how you really feel? You say it's "vile" but if your apartment is too expensive for them by themselves (or for Gordie alone), maybe they're just trying to control their own expenses. What contractual obligation do Jeff and Gordie have to you? Separately, what moral obligations do you think they have?

Regardless of the answer to those questions, this sounds like a "what's it worth to you" question. Do you know what the rental market for your apartment is? Do you think you could raise the rent to make up for your storage costs?
posted by QuantumMeruit at 12:42 PM on February 22, 2008

Do you have a friend that could check on the place, say, once a week? Or do you depend on Gordie and Jeff's rent money to keep the place in Toronto? One solution would be to have someone to look in on it once a week, run the water, check that everything is fine, for the year that you'll be gone.
Another solution might be for you to move back for the year until your girlfriend is done with grad school. It's crummy, but lots of couples have this kind of arrangement for academic purposes. It might not be feasible, but it also might be an option you hadn't considered.
posted by k8lin at 12:42 PM on February 22, 2008

Is this a rental? If so, it's not yours forever. Someday, it will cease to be yours entirely- you'll lose your lease, whatever. Start dealing with that fact in your mind now. You need to find someone to sublet the apartment- it's the only choice. You could find someone responsible who isn't going to destroy all your stuff, have them sign a lease. Put the most valuable stuff in a really cheap storage locker- I find it very difficult to believe that every single one of those thousands of books is an irreplaceable treasure. When it comes down to it, it's all just stuff- when you die, they'll have to pay someone to drag it to the landfill. Not that you should burn it all, but try to let go a little bit- it's not your history. Oh, and when you visit for a weekend, make Jeff put you up.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:42 PM on February 22, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I know money is tight but you are in a desperate situation, so here's an idea. Cut Gordie's rent so it matches the offer from Jeff and hopefully you can entice him to stay on. Think of this as a maintenance fee you're paying him. Then he can stay without resenting you for the financial burden it would impose on him (relative to the alternative). If you replace Jeff with a stranger, you can charge him a little more. This may cost a lot, but you could always take out a loan and pay it off later and it might be worth it.
posted by PercussivePaul at 12:44 PM on February 22, 2008

Ah, Hal, thanks for taking the time to write a detailed answer. No, we won't be taking them to court, but not because we're pushovers...it's that they're not doing anything illegal. The lease is up in May, if they want to leave, they're free to go. Ours was a personal and verbal agreement...this makes it a betrayal of the heart, not the law. No less vile, however.

We both enjoyed reading your vindictive suggestions, though. :)

MCCXXIII, I can't move back to Toronto, I have a nice job here in Chicago. Otherwise, perfect. And yes, it's a rental. Because it was in such abysmal condition, we got a killer deal on the place, and now it's in one of Toronto's hottest hoods.
posted by Lieber Frau at 12:45 PM on February 22, 2008

The majority of the "stuff" referred to is a large volume of artwork created by my partner. This is why it is irreplaceable. Otherwise, I would agree. Stuff is stuff.
posted by Lieber Frau at 12:49 PM on February 22, 2008

If your apartment is filled with so much of your partner's artwork that you can't afford to put it all in storage, why would any other person want to live there? That sounds like a nightmare, living with that much of somebody else's stuff. It sounds like your partner needs to start selling, sharing, something- keep the best 10%, give the rest to friends, family, supporters? It would be crazy to allow any stuff, even stuff he made, to hold you hostage.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:55 PM on February 22, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Put all of your personal possessions in one of the bedrooms and lock it. Then look for a sublet and explain the rather unusual situation. See if you can get Geordie to stay until you find a suitable sublet. Assuming it's a two-bedroom apartment, you'll have to only charge more like a one-bedroom apartment.

You'll have to give up rights to stay there when you're visiting family. Perhaps this would be a small price to pay for not having to move all of your possessions to Chicago or put everything in climate-controlled storage?
posted by desuetude at 12:59 PM on February 22, 2008

If Jeff's girlfriend has a house (maybe with a basement or attic?) can he help out by taking on some of the most valuable of your possessions? Then I'd pay to move the rest to Chicago, even though temporarily, and give up your place in Toronto.

You seem to have thought through this situation very clearly already, and have outright rejected all of the obvious suggestions. I think one thing that you're hung up on is a sense of ownership of your rental apartment. Yes, you've invested time, money and hard work - but it's not your property. That's the risk you take. As ThePinkSuperhero says, it can't be your home forever. Home is where you and your partner are. You'll have history and happy memories at any place you live.
posted by handful of rain at 1:00 PM on February 22, 2008

As someone above has said, if you don't own the place, you're going to have to move out eventually. If the area is hot and the landlord isn't making the amount they could be, there's a very good chance you won't be moving out on your terms. I discovered this the hard way in Vancouver's 0.7% vacancy housing market, and believe me, it sucks.

Are you 100% positive the landlord will be willing to renew your lease come May? There's no point coming up with a friend-of-a-friend solution only to have the landlord opt not to renew the lease. If you're absolutely sure the landlord will renew the lease, your only option is to sublet the place as a furnished apartment. Either find a friend or head back to Toronto for a weekend and interview a bunch of people.
posted by Nelsormensch at 1:02 PM on February 22, 2008

(I meant to say "...give up your place in Toronto if you can't find subletters to cover the rent.")
posted by handful of rain at 1:02 PM on February 22, 2008

I don't mean to be harsh, but yes, it is great to have two apartments in two cities and come and go as you please. However, it costs a lot of money. You either have to move everything out of the apartment and sublet it or simply give it up. You had a perfect setup and now it is over.

If your rent is so low because of sweat equity and the 'hood is so hot, shouldn't the rent you get cover the amount you pay for storage in addition to your own rent? Let's say you pay $1000 monthly. You can't rent it for $1500 and use the difference to pay for storage?
posted by GuyZero at 1:26 PM on February 22, 2008

>MCCXXIII, I can't move back to Toronto, I have a nice job here in Chicago. Otherwise, perfect.

But you're planning to go back to Toronto eventually, right? So if it's THAT important to you to keep your dibs on the rental unit, then quit your job in Chicago and move back to Toronto now.

Life is a series of choices.
posted by mccxxiii at 1:35 PM on February 22, 2008

@guyzero, It's illegal to sublet a place for more than you pay for it. I'm pretty sure anyway.
posted by chunking express at 1:50 PM on February 22, 2008

It's unrealistic to expect to find someone happy to live with all your stuff and even be okay with you visiting sometimes. Your options are to drop the price enough to where that situation is tolerable (maybe that'd entice Gordie to stay), move back to Toronto and spend a year (mostly) apart from your partner, put your stuff in storage (you can find a place big enough for any amount of stuff) and sublet, or give up on returning to the apartment (necessitating storage or moving everything to Chicago).

Those are the only options as I see, barring another set of exceptional circumstances like you had with Jeff and Gordie. I know it's rough but you need to be realistic about the options and make a choice based on the situation that is, not the one you wish it (still) was.
posted by 6550 at 1:59 PM on February 22, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

This is not what you want to hear but you should let go of the apartment. You can make a home anywhere. You did it once, you can do it again. Yes you love THAT place, but it is now holding you prisoner. I understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't want a stranger with my things either. If I were in your position, the only choices I could see are:

1. Quit school. Move back to Toronto. Keep apartment.
2. Continue school. Let go of the Toronto apartment and put your things in storage/move to Chicago.

Education is worth much more than an apartment. You can rebuild. I would struggle with this as well, but in the end, I would want to control my own fate and not let a space determine it for me.

And give your friends the benefit of the doubt. They didn't decide to do these things with screwing you over in mind. They were looking after themselves, which is not vile or a betrayal.
posted by spec80 at 2:07 PM on February 22, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

What were you offering Jeff and Gordie? If the answer is nothing, than you have no hold on them--who would agree to such a thing? Putting their entire life on hold for nothing?

I'm not saying this to be mean, but to suggest that you get someone else in there and that you agree to give them X amount off the rent per month if they agree to stay for 2 years. Its called consideration and it is needed for a contract to be enforceable. Suggestions that you get your friends to sign a so-called "contract" with you and to return aren't really contracts at all because they are getting nothing in return--they are not legally sufficient as a contract without it. Neither was your deal. Jeff has a heart that he wants to follow. Gordie wants to live with his buddy. Why should they put those plans on hold? Because you offer them something of value in return.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:22 PM on February 22, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

You're just going to have to post it on Craigslist and roll the dice. If you really want it, it will involve flying up/ interviewing people over the phone to sublet it. The problem is, you are going to have to come back up here to renew the lease in your name and then fill out a sublease agreement with the new tenant. I hope you have insurance. I'm assuming that you mean you currently pay 1/3 of the rent and the other roommates are paying 2/3 of the rent? And you want them to take care of your stuff and put you up whenever you're in town? That's kind of a lot.

You would likely have to pay half the rent, and have someone else pay the other half of the rent, allowing them the flexibility to have another roommate and put the other roommate's rent towards their half, as opposed to towards the collective pool of rent money. You would be paying half for the privilege of storing your stuff, having someone there to take care of the apartment, and basically being willing to have you drop in whenever you want to come visit. The rest of the year they get their own space and a break in rent to essentially live by themselves. And the understanding that when you come back, you want your place back as it's in your name. People make arrangements like that all the time. Granted, it's better if you know and trust the person who is living in your house, as opposed to a stranger, but if you don't want to mix family/friends and business, what other option do you have?
posted by SassHat at 4:00 PM on February 22, 2008

Please clarify this: They were paying you rent? They were taking care of your things with no compensation?

If so, "what a lucky break we got" doesn't even begin describe this, and "vile" and "betrayal" have no place in this discussion.
posted by sageleaf at 4:19 PM on February 22, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

To clarify.

There was no "Caretaking of stuff" going on.

The boys agreed to live in this space because the space was awesome, and Jeff helped to build it with his bare hands, and didn't want to see it lost either. Plenty of their stuff is in there as well, and plenty of the "stuff" belongs to all of us, as we had become a family unit over the last 12 years.

And we were a family. We have relied on each other for much, and we trusted this man as a brother. We did not ask Jeff to stay, he volunteered, and gave his promise to do so. He assured us it was his own decision.

The key element here is, our friend promised one behavior, and then enacted another. The breaking of this promise comes at a very difficult time for us, and it may mean we lose a space we love. In addition, he enabled our other roommate to leave, making the situation even harder for us.

While losing a rented space may not seem like a big deal, the fact is, we were prepared to lose the space. We just weren't prepared to lose it a year before the deal ended.
posted by Lieber Frau at 4:36 PM on February 22, 2008

As long as we're into semantics: One person's "broken promise" is another person's "getting on with my life." It's a rental, not a marriage. You will just have to accept that they are former roommates, you don't have a contract with them, and you don't get to insist that they live their lives for your convenience.

Breaking up is hard to do. You can be mad all you want. But they aren't vile just because you are in over your head with two places and a lot of stuff.
posted by sageleaf at 4:46 PM on February 22, 2008

That is neither helpful nor informative. Changing our opinion of what happened won't help us retain our space. Please do not leave any further comments unless they are helpful, interesting, or on topic.
posted by Lieber Frau at 5:08 PM on February 22, 2008

Lieber Frau, you're getting pretty close to moderating your own thread, which is frowned on around these parts. And yes, of course I know that "giving answers that aren't helpful" is also frowned on -- hence your request to sageleaf that he/she stop posting -- but I would suggest that considering a different, perhaps less emotionally-driven perspective on the situation (as sageleaf has offered) is actually helpful, as it may help you to more realistially evaluate your options and lead to a solution (and perhaps to salvage a friendship you obviously care very much about).

I don't dispute that you are feeling enraged and helpless because of the situation. I have found in my own life, though, that choices made in the midst of feelings of rage and helplessness are rarely very good ones. As always, YMMV.
posted by scody at 5:42 PM on February 22, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

There was no "Caretaking of stuff" going on.

But there will be if you decide to keep both apartments, so you're going to have to think of the art, etc. as "stuff" at some point, if folks other than you and your SO and Jeff and Geordie are to be involved. Which is a likely scenario, if you're going to keep both places.

And hey, this isn't really entirely about the apartment, it's about your relationship with Jeff and him leaving behind your group house to live with his girlfriend, and him facilitating Geordie choosing sides, right? It's the interpersonal relationships that get sticky and complicated, not sublets and storage facilities.

Maybe you should sit down with your partner, Jeff, and Geordie together and figure out if you can come to a mutual decision.
posted by desuetude at 6:18 PM on February 22, 2008

I have the solution you want. Jeff and Gordie stay where they are and do exactly what you want them to do. Everybody wins!




Well, except for Jeff and Gordie, but fuck those guys.
posted by electroboy at 9:57 PM on February 22, 2008

Frau, I've learned through long experience as a renter that you should never attach yourself to a place you do not own to this extent, because it is not YOUR cool place, it's your LANDLORD's cool place they're allowing you to stay in for now. As others upthread have mentioned, if the place was run down and now the neighborhood is revitalized and expensive, your landlord (unless he/she is a complete fool) will be looking to find the quickest, most effective way to get market value for that place. You should NOT take it as gospel that your lease will be renewed, or that a rent increase is not coming. In this case the max increase in Ontario is only 2.1% without applying to the Ontario Rental Housing Tribunal. However, if the area's rents have gone up dramatically, say on the order of 50% or more, the ORHT probably would approve a 20% rent hike when the lease is up for renewal, and if the area continues to prosper, another one the year after. Even if you hold onto the place, you could come back in 2 years to find you're paying 50% more in rent than you are now.


The only way to provide a modicum of stability is to BE the landlord. That way the place really is yours. It sucks in the details, it's scary, it's expensive (I just bought a place a few months ago, so I know intimately), but it's more than worth it.

I know you put a whole bunch of work into the place and that sucks. Guess what happened at a place I was living at a few years ago? It was a crappy basement suite that needed a bunch of work, so to make it a better living experience, I did some work on it, fixed it up real nice, especially the kitchen, and to celebrate the landlord raised my rent every year until I left because it was "worth so much more now". Lesson learned. Any "improvements" to a rental place damn well better be ones that can and will come with you when you leave.
posted by barc0001 at 1:14 AM on February 23, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]