Is it worth working for a potentially toxic manager to take a promotion?

February 15, 2008 6:50 AM

Is it worth working for a potentially toxic manager and team to take a promotion?

I have been working in my current job for two years in an individual contributor role. I've been at the company (a mega-corp) for 3 years, and in the industry for 5. I am in the top 10% in my division (we are ranked). My boss and his boss agree that I have leadership potential. To that end, they sponsored a funding proposal to hire some people so that I could become a team lead. That funding proposal fell through. I was passed over for another leadership opportunity (not a lead role, but a higher-visibilty strategic task). I am looking around internally for another position.

There is this job available that looks perfect for me on paper. However, I have heard some bad things about the hiring manager and the team in general. Unfortunately, the gossip is of a general nature, like a guy that I met once or twice telling me that "I worked with her previously and I left that job because of her", a vague notion that she used to work in our division 5 years ago and it didn't end well (I think it was her, although I may be mixing her up with somebody else) and a team reputation for being bureaucratic, and not because of any specific show-stopping incident that I am aware of. The information I have so far makes me nervous. I have not applied yet for this reason.

I have access to the following resources:
1. My boss used to work for a person reporting directly to the allegedly toxic hiring manager. He could give me some insight, at the expense of me showing my hand in the job search. I generally like my boss and trust his opinion on people. However, he is an incurable gossip. He also needs to keep me in his division and I also don't want to tell him about any potential interviews unless I absolutely have to. I think he is aware that I am looking. I have told him in no uncertain terms that I am unhappy about recent events but I have not explicitly said to him "Hey I am interviewing for a new job".
2. The person that most recently filled the position I am considering just took a new job down the hall. His new job is taking over a team where the outgoing boss was demoted for incompetence and team morale is in the crapper. It would have been a lateral move for him. I have never met this man before but I know where to find him.
3. A guy that I know pretty well in my division (drink beers with) works with their division a lot, but not necessarily with allegedly toxic manager. I could pump him for more info. He also gossips.

People talk so I don't want to inquire indiscriminately. I badly need a promotion and I'm pretty qualified for this job. If I take it and I hate it, I would be stuck there for 18 months before I could transfer again internally. Given what I know, is it even worth inquiring about the new job? Is it worth working with somebody that has a bad reputation just to get some experience? I don't really want to become guilty by association. I would like to work at my current company for quite some time so it is very important for me to maintain my reputation so I can transfer to other jobs in the future. That said, I could really use the experience and I really need a new job soon.

Mitigating factors: I have preliminary interviews for two other interesting positions today. I have pitched a new team proposal to my boss and my boss's boss to see if they will finally counter by offering me a higher position. I meet with the director on Monday to pitch the new proposal personally and to have a general career discussion (advice on that discussion welcome as well). If I am not satisfied with how these things go, I would apply for allegedly toxic job on Monday afternoon.

posted by anonymous to work & money (22 comments total)

Go for it. Even if it doesn't work out, 18 months is not a long time.
posted by JaySunSee at 6:58 AM on February 15

no it is not.
posted by Benzle at 7:13 AM on February 15

Ask yourself how much money it will take to overcome the fact that you'll probably hate every day at work. Factor in the potential for this boss to sabotage your future career. Don't forget your new co-workers are going to be miserable, too. Does this job pay that amount?
posted by tommasz at 7:21 AM on February 15

no. not worth it. it will make you hate yourself and your life and your job and everything else.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 7:28 AM on February 15

18 months is a long time to be with a toxic manager and a dysfunctional work group. Presently, you have a good reputation within the firm and being with a bad manager could dent that. Being with the toxic manager would possibly mean a decline in your work output and quality meaning you have no escape hatch or will be taking losses on the social capital front.

This is my suggestion, you need to talk to your boss or guy #3. You can suggest to guy #3 to apply for the job and see his response over several beers. Your boss is already aware that you are unhappy and probably looking for another position, unless he/she is total jerk, he/she will not steer you to disaster (something I have seen other bosses do.) as vengeance for leaving.

I speak from personal experience, 18 months with an awful manager and a group that is paranoid is no fun. Those 18 months encompass a job review cycle too, think hard about that if you do not like the group or the manager and you need that review for leverage.

Research before leaping.
posted by jadepearl at 7:30 AM on February 15

I had a similar opportunity, and I took it, against the advice of others who had been in my organization longer and were very familiar with the dysfunctional group I took over. It made me hate a job I otherwise loved and second-guess my career choice.

You can overcome working with a bad team if you have a good boss; but a bad manager combined with a poor team is a nightmare. Hard work, good intentions, and a desire to succeed may not be enough to fix the major organizational and personnel problems you will likely encounter when trying to work with this toxic group. Good luck with your other interviews -- I recommend staying away from this position.

Your mileage may vary.
posted by ellenaim at 7:38 AM on February 15

Cart. Horse. Apply for the job and if you get an interview, and if you get an offer, it becomes a problem worth considering. Right now, it isn't a problem because it isn't anything more than a job vacancy.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:42 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

No! No! NO! Take it from someone who has worked for both toxic and non-toxic managers. I would rather clean toilets for a non-toxic manager. From the outside, you don't know, and cannot understand how terrible a bad manager can make your life.

Find out more, but the fact that someone else quit because of her speaks volumes. VOLUMES, I say. What would it take you to make you quit your job? Think about it.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 8:05 AM on February 15

Also, upon reading other comments: What misanthropicsarah said. Also, JaySunSee does not know what 18 months can feel like. Treat it like 540 days (and all of them terrible).
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 8:07 AM on February 15

It is absolutely not worth it. I switched jobs at my last company to work for a similarly toxic manager, and within 90 days I quit the company entirely, it was that bad. Think about it - your manager is the person to which you are most responsible in your day-to-day job; do you want that person to be someone you loathe, do not respect, and can't work for?

You will become angry, bitter, and it will mess up your life outside work. Trust me on this. There will be other jobs.
posted by pdb at 8:11 AM on February 15

JaySunSee does not know what 18 months can feel like.

I worked in a factory I hated for almost 13 years. I was on nightshift on 8 years (and other than for my two week vacations, I hardly ever saw the sun). 18 months is NOT a long time.
posted by JaySunSee at 8:15 AM on February 15

I was on nightshift for 8 years

Sorry. the lack of sun has apparently affected my spelling.
posted by JaySunSee at 8:16 AM on February 15

As soon as you get an interview for another internal position, your boss will know, if your megacorp is at all like mine. If he wants to keep you, he can block you from interviewing (although there will be greater pressure on him, and perhaps even corporate justification, to promote you). So he will find out anyway if you start interviewing around internally.

I would discuss this with him up front, maybe in the context of a career planning discussion. Make it clear you appreciate that he is trying to promote you, but that you also feel compelled to look into other positions, if only to see what else is out there. This will do several things: One, you don't have to sneak around; it's all above-board. Two, you can ask for his honest opinion about different positions (including the people in other organizations). Three, it serves as a clear signal that you really feel ready for a promotion and if he can't give that to you, you will find someone who can. This could work to your advantage if he wants to keep you, because it puts a more real deadline into his mind and he will be more motivated to get you a more appropriate position.

I took a new position within my company in November. Leading up to that, I had similar discussions with my boss. In the end, the position I took was suggested to me by him. I think that by being up front with your current boss, it sets up a relationship based on integrity and your boss will realize that even if he loses you in the short term, that if he has a chance to bring you back down the road, he'll remember that you were up front with him.

Also, with respect to the 18 months, bear in mind that guideline most likely only applies to your looking for a different postion. If your current boss wants to bring you back into his organization, he may be able to initiate that prior to the 18 month window.
posted by Doohickie at 8:54 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]

You said it is very important for you to maintain your current reputation. If you work for the toxic supervisor and her lousy team, some of their bad reputation will rub off on you. Don't be too hasty, the right opportunity will come along. Nthing the advice to be open with your current supervisor.
posted by Daddy-O at 9:03 AM on February 15

I've worked in corporate America for 28 years. I have found that the manager I work for can have more to do with my job satisfaction than the actual work I am doing. A slightly difficult manager is one thing but a toxic one is quite another. I'd seriously consider going to the friend with direct experience working for the manger in question even if it does expose the fact that you are thinking about applying for the position.
posted by Carbolic at 9:29 AM on February 15

I've heard a quote, and I have no idea where it comes from, but I love it: People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses.

A toxic manager is not only bad for your day to day life, but is also likely bad for your career, as they will do nothing to advocate for you moving to the next step.

If you're looking to move on up yet another step, this is not the best step in your career path.

In my experience, working for a boss who does not have good people skills, integrity, etc, is absolute torture.
posted by twiggy at 11:30 AM on February 15

Read this. Then work out whether potential toxic boss fits those criteria. You can use your drinking buddy for this. If this potential boss fits most of those critera, don't go anywhere near the opportunity.
posted by singingfish at 12:51 PM on February 15

I did two years with a toxic manager and the last 18 months were absolutely awful. It's bad enough to just hate going to work every day, but I eventually started getting physically sick more often than I ever had before or since. Nothing else in my life had changed, so I blame it on the sheer emotional and physical stress of dealing with that manager every day. I had always thought it was really idiotic to quit a job without something else lined up, but it got to the point there where I thought the stress of being unemployed and broke would actually be an improvement over going to that job every day. (That said, I wound up finding a great new job where I am valued partly because they knew my work under the previous manager and were impressed that I'd done such good work in that situation. And now pretty much nothing at the new job causes me the slightest bit of stress because it's all such a relief, so I guess one can look at a toxic manager as boot camp for learning to work under pressure.)

You might be less susceptible to stress and it might well be worth it to you, but I wouldn't lightly dismiss your misgivings. If it's possible to wait a little while, I 'd see how your other opportunities pan out.
posted by Stacey at 1:18 PM on February 15

Not remotely worth it.
posted by Asparagirl at 1:44 PM on February 15

If you believe that the position will teach you skills and give you experience in the company that you couldn't possibly get anywhere else, it might possibly be worth it. However, I'm on the back end of 18 months of a toxic boss and while I've learned a lot in the last 18 months, it was in spite of him, not from him. The stress has been horrendous. List out the pros and cons; unless the pros vastly, and I mean vastly, outweigh the cons, forget it. I also became physically sick, headaches, throwing up, etc. so not worth it.
posted by tamitang at 3:08 PM on February 15

Be honest with your boss. Looking for another position within the same company shows confidence and initiative. Asking for his advice and giving him another chance to promote you shows respect and loyalty.

On the broader question: I had an awful boss. I used to cry on Sunday nights because I couldn't stand the thought of another week at work. I, too, became physically ill. It was so bad that I ended up quitting with no notice, no savings, and no other job. I just could not stand to speak with him or see him ever again. Besides the misery that I endured, I ended up looking like a flake or an incompetent because I left after only 5 months and didn't get a good reference.

The worst part about it is that I used to see myself as a cheerful, hard-working, and intelligent person. Afterwards, I was almost convinced that I would never be able to find a job again. Completely ridiculous. It took me six months to really feel good about working again.
posted by sondrialiac at 4:15 PM on February 15

Another thing I thought of later: In addition to just how this affects you, be aware that if you get into a really bad work situation, it affects your life outside of work too. I was so deep in my own misery that I didn't even realize how much it was affecting my homelife until I handed in my resignation. Suddenly I had energy to do fun things with my partner again, talk about things other than how miserable I was, go out with friends, take up hobbies other than slumping on the couch feeling sorry for myself - I didn't realize how much of my life I'd lost until I got it back. YMMV, but it's something to weigh when you make your decision.
posted by Stacey at 4:43 PM on February 15