Can you destroy your cards in Baccarat?

June 30, 2004 6:20 AM

GamblingFilter: Last week on The Casino, there was a big deal made about these two high-rollers mangling their cards while playing Baccarat. They kept pointing out that Baccarat was the only game where you can destroy the cards while playing. The casino's complaint was that they were mangling them too much, and the cameras and the dealer couldn't tell what the cards were anymore. But if you're mangling the cards because you're angry you lost, why do they need to see what the cards were anymore? And if you're able to mangle them, obviously they're not reusing them, right? And why can you destroy the cards anyway? All the sites I've found with the rules for Baccarat say nothing about destroying cards.
posted by emptybowl to grab bag (10 comments total)

I was in Vegas a few weeks ago, and spent some time in the high stakes Baccarat room - not to play, of course, but to observe. Seeing people lay $25,000 on the line without flinching is really something.

It was fascinating. I don't know how the game works, exactly, but there was something about it that was much classier than everything else in the casinos. The room was well let, comfortably apportioned, and altogether civilized. Fundamentally different from everything else one might find in a hotel on the strip.

While I don't want to derail the thread, I'd like to tack on another question: what is it about Baccarat that commands such special treatment, be it mangling cards or otherwise?
posted by aladfar at 6:47 AM on June 30, 2004

If they were high rollers, I am wondering why the casino even cared. I imagine casinos pay well less than a quarter for card deck, so it could afford to play a new deck each hand.
posted by mischief at 6:56 AM on June 30, 2004

I don't know why they mangle the cards, but since they pointed out that the *cameras* couldn't tell what the cards were anymore, my guess is they were annoyed that the extent of mangling meant there was no way for security to keep track of the cards and make sure there was no cheating involved. If they can't see what cards have already been played, then they can't tell if somebody produces a fifth ace out of a single deck.
posted by headspace at 7:02 AM on June 30, 2004

They cared because these guys were tearing up the cards during play. Obviously they can do whatever they want to them after the hand is over. The Nevada Gaming Commission has very strict rules about how games are run and played, and if they can't tell what cards are being played at a table (and believe me every high-limit table has a camera on it) they get very mad. The owners of this casino only got provisional gaming licences because they are backed by the mafia, so they need to be extra careful about following the rules.

These players, for instance, were tearing out all the diamonds on the card and handing them back to the dealer. Say he handed back 7 of them, who's to say he didn't pocket the 8th?
posted by ChasFile at 7:07 AM on June 30, 2004

Well, now I understand why the casino was angry at those guys, but I still don't understand why you're allowed to destroy the cards when playing Baccarat. Anyone know?
posted by emptybowl at 7:12 AM on June 30, 2004

During play? Sounds like grounds for forfeiting their bets.
posted by mischief at 7:57 AM on June 30, 2004

I just asked my father, who used to work at the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. He told me that you're allowed to do it because you're dropping so much money, and when you play Baccarat you can basically do anything that you want. He says it's considered a form of entertainment and stress relief, with most players having their own signature style. He's only heard of players doing it after the hand though, not during it. Also, he says it's much more common in Europe than in the states.
posted by iconomy at 8:04 AM on June 30, 2004

He's only heard of players doing it after the hand though, not during it.

I guess basically as the cards are dealt and a hand is played, the cards are then discarded, not put back in the shoe. Otherwise, the concern with mangling a card would be what it always is: card marking, a pretty serious offense.
posted by Shane at 8:27 AM on June 30, 2004

card marking, a pretty serious offense.
Also a felony in Nevada. Simply stepping into a casino in Nevada with any item that could be used for cheating is a felony, regardless if you use it (been watching way too much of the Travel Channel's specials on Las Vegas- I live Blackjack).
posted by jmd82 at 11:12 AM on June 30, 2004

Simply stepping into a casino in Nevada with any item that could be used for cheating is a felony, regardless if you use it

Such as...? Am I likely to accidentally walk into a casino with a felony in my pocket?
posted by rorycberger at 2:46 PM on June 30, 2004