Three years into college that I now know is the wrong campus but now I'm with the right woman, what do I do?
February 13, 2008 11:34 PM Subscribe
Three years into college that I now know is the wrong campus but now I'm with the right woman, what do I do?
I'm in my third year at The Evergreen State College, and I don't find myself with much in the way of friends, connections, or a sense of accomplishment or have much expectation of that to change at Evergreen. The college itself offers only "programs", which are full quarter long (or longer) interdisciplinary mixtures of seminars, workshops and lectures run by teams of three or less professors. They range from 'everything about American political economy' in a season, to 'art and history of basket weaving' for three quarters. The format is quite awesome when a program matches up with my interest, as one did in my freshman year, but since then nothing, until now.
Right now, I'm currently in a fantastic program for the Winter, but it ends in the Spring, and nothing so intellectually stimulating or academically demanding is offered next year or next quarter. The program has reminded me of how energizing difficult material, thorough classmates, and a demanding professor is, and it has me worried that this is what I'm missing out on by being at Evergreen. The inconsistency of the program system here has me feeling after three years that I've done maybe four quarters of actual learning, and the rest has been silly nonsense things to fill the time. Which is not far from the case, as at times I had no other options but to either skip a quarter or take a silly program about shadow puppetry. I want more difficult, and demanding courses, and I don't see it in the catalog for the next quarter or through to the next year.
But... then there are the difficulties, firstly academic. The campus itself is without a grading system, it uses nothing but qualitative evaluations, which makes me worry if I can even transfer at all. It is also a known for being unconventional, and accepting anything for credit. I'm scared that my transcript is rubbish to real colleges.
But secondly, and most importantly. I'm living with my girlfriend of over a year and a half. We live together seamlessly, are working on a beekeeping apprenticeship together, and keeping each other sane. We have our hearts set on staying together through college and after. On the issue of transfer or staying, she has told me that it is my decision. But I don't see any colleges that meet my needs within a short distance of Evergreen, and she doesn't intend to transfer out of Evergreen after having transfered there so recently, and neither of us like the prospect of a long distance relationship. So the decision feels like the choice between feeling good about my education or being with her. I don't know if I am being too selfish, or expecting too much out of college, or wanderlusting for another campus, or even capable of transferring if I chose to. Help me find stable ground to survey this situation, make the right decision and act.
I'm in my third year at The Evergreen State College, and I don't find myself with much in the way of friends, connections, or a sense of accomplishment or have much expectation of that to change at Evergreen. The college itself offers only "programs", which are full quarter long (or longer) interdisciplinary mixtures of seminars, workshops and lectures run by teams of three or less professors. They range from 'everything about American political economy' in a season, to 'art and history of basket weaving' for three quarters. The format is quite awesome when a program matches up with my interest, as one did in my freshman year, but since then nothing, until now.
Right now, I'm currently in a fantastic program for the Winter, but it ends in the Spring, and nothing so intellectually stimulating or academically demanding is offered next year or next quarter. The program has reminded me of how energizing difficult material, thorough classmates, and a demanding professor is, and it has me worried that this is what I'm missing out on by being at Evergreen. The inconsistency of the program system here has me feeling after three years that I've done maybe four quarters of actual learning, and the rest has been silly nonsense things to fill the time. Which is not far from the case, as at times I had no other options but to either skip a quarter or take a silly program about shadow puppetry. I want more difficult, and demanding courses, and I don't see it in the catalog for the next quarter or through to the next year.
But... then there are the difficulties, firstly academic. The campus itself is without a grading system, it uses nothing but qualitative evaluations, which makes me worry if I can even transfer at all. It is also a known for being unconventional, and accepting anything for credit. I'm scared that my transcript is rubbish to real colleges.
But secondly, and most importantly. I'm living with my girlfriend of over a year and a half. We live together seamlessly, are working on a beekeeping apprenticeship together, and keeping each other sane. We have our hearts set on staying together through college and after. On the issue of transfer or staying, she has told me that it is my decision. But I don't see any colleges that meet my needs within a short distance of Evergreen, and she doesn't intend to transfer out of Evergreen after having transfered there so recently, and neither of us like the prospect of a long distance relationship. So the decision feels like the choice between feeling good about my education or being with her. I don't know if I am being too selfish, or expecting too much out of college, or wanderlusting for another campus, or even capable of transferring if I chose to. Help me find stable ground to survey this situation, make the right decision and act.
The campus itself is without a grading system, it uses nothing but qualitative evaluations, which makes me worry if I can even transfer at all.
UC Santa Cruz used an evaluation system while I was there -- they were well aware of the transfer (and the graduate school!) issue, and provided a service for converting evaluations into grades. Your school almost certainly does the same.
It is also a known for being unconventional, and accepting anything for credit. I'm scared that my transcript is rubbish to real colleges.
Never know until you try. If your current college is accredited then there's a good chance that at least some of your coursework will transfer.
Help me find stable ground to survey this situation, make the right decision and act.
Well for starters you should start investigating whether transferring is a realistic option -- if it's not, then problem solved.
It is likely that only some of your credits will transfer, in which case it may make sense to stay at your current school and continue taking classes that will lay the groundwork for transferring to a "better" school sometime next year.
In general, transfers take some time to arrange. I'd find out exactly what you're talking about transfer-wise before worrying about anything else.
posted by tkolar at 12:08 AM on February 14, 2008
UC Santa Cruz used an evaluation system while I was there -- they were well aware of the transfer (and the graduate school!) issue, and provided a service for converting evaluations into grades. Your school almost certainly does the same.
It is also a known for being unconventional, and accepting anything for credit. I'm scared that my transcript is rubbish to real colleges.
Never know until you try. If your current college is accredited then there's a good chance that at least some of your coursework will transfer.
Help me find stable ground to survey this situation, make the right decision and act.
Well for starters you should start investigating whether transferring is a realistic option -- if it's not, then problem solved.
It is likely that only some of your credits will transfer, in which case it may make sense to stay at your current school and continue taking classes that will lay the groundwork for transferring to a "better" school sometime next year.
In general, transfers take some time to arrange. I'd find out exactly what you're talking about transfer-wise before worrying about anything else.
posted by tkolar at 12:08 AM on February 14, 2008
At three years in I would stick with it and finish. Doubly so at an unconventional school like Evergreen. Once you throw in the specter of being separated from your girlfriend, it seems like there is no contest.
posted by phrontist at 12:18 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by phrontist at 12:18 AM on February 14, 2008
Nothing you're going to get out of one year at another school is worth an amazing relationship. Even without knowing you or the details of your situation, the cost-benefit ratio you've described is MUCH too high to make any choice but to stick it out.
posted by Ryvar at 12:38 AM on February 14, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by Ryvar at 12:38 AM on February 14, 2008 [5 favorites]
Can you work with some good professors to put together a new program for next year? Find some other students who feel similarly and set up an independent study?
posted by lullabyofbirdland at 12:55 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by lullabyofbirdland at 12:55 AM on February 14, 2008
Best answer: "Right now, I'm currently in a fantastic program for the Winter, but it ends in the Spring, and nothing so intellectually stimulating or academically demanding is offered next year or next quarter. .... the rest has been silly nonsense things to fill the time. Which is not far from the case, as at times I had no other options but to either skip a quarter or take a silly program about shadow puppetry. I want more difficult, and demanding courses, and I don't see it in the catalog for the next quarter or through to the next year."
Hello, fellow Greener! (I graduated in 1993. After attending from 1983-85, then leaving for a few years and returning.)
Hey, this is Evergreen you're talking about. What does it matter what is in the catalog? One of the great things about Evergreen is that you can design your own curriculum, and if you are in the 3rd or 4th year, you probably should be doing that at this point. What is it you want to be learning? You can make that happen with an Independent Contract or a group contract. With the right professor (finding which is the hardest part, frequently) it can be a really amazing experience.
"But... then there are the difficulties, firstly academic. The campus itself is without a grading system, it uses nothing but qualitative evaluations, which makes me worry if I can even transfer at all. It is also a known for being unconventional, and accepting anything for credit. I'm scared that my transcript is rubbish to real colleges."
Evergreen has a relatively good reputation despite being nontraditional -- the further away you get from Washington state, the better the rep is. :) The evaluations are actually more informative than a typical transcript, and the school has been around long enough that admissions offices may be familiar with the format anyway. Many people transfer out of TESC or go on from TESC to good grad schools with no trouble. (The only trouble I had was that I didn't have a GPA, so I was accepted to grad school under a probationary term, and I had to keep a 3.00 for the first semester or two to stay in the program, whereas if I'd had a GPA to give them I wouldn't have been on probation. But they let me in just fine.) You are worrying too much.
However, not all credits are likely to transfer. This is not because it's Evergreen, but because it's really common when transferring anywhere for some credits not to be accepted. Also, some schools require more than a year of residency. So you would be likely to have to spend more than a year at another school.
Evergreen is less strict about residency than many schools, or at least, they were when I was there. I took my last 20 credits at the University of Washington, over a full time Summer Quarter and a night class in the Fall, because I wanted to take some courses that TESC didn't have available that year (intensive Japanese language). So that's another possibility; you can take courses at the UW in the summer (which doesn't require matriculating at the UW) while remaining an Evergreen student, and apply those credits to Evergreen. Or perhaps at another school in the area, maybe closer to Olympia.
"I don't know if I am being too selfish, or expecting too much out of college, or wanderlusting for another campus, or even capable of transferring if I chose to."
Well, maybe, yes, yes, and yes, probably. ;) Not that any of that is terrible. I think it's actually pretty common to go through some disillusionment and wanting to try another program or campus when you get to the junior year. Not just for Greeners, but in general. But Evergreen being an unusual place, it can cause you to wonder whether the grass is greener on the "normal" side. :)
With less than a year and a half left, though, I'd stick it out at Evergreen and do what you can to enhance the academic situation. You can make that happen at TESC, seriously. You don't need to sit back and wait for the right program to be offered.
Good luck!
posted by litlnemo at 1:02 AM on February 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
Hello, fellow Greener! (I graduated in 1993. After attending from 1983-85, then leaving for a few years and returning.)
Hey, this is Evergreen you're talking about. What does it matter what is in the catalog? One of the great things about Evergreen is that you can design your own curriculum, and if you are in the 3rd or 4th year, you probably should be doing that at this point. What is it you want to be learning? You can make that happen with an Independent Contract or a group contract. With the right professor (finding which is the hardest part, frequently) it can be a really amazing experience.
"But... then there are the difficulties, firstly academic. The campus itself is without a grading system, it uses nothing but qualitative evaluations, which makes me worry if I can even transfer at all. It is also a known for being unconventional, and accepting anything for credit. I'm scared that my transcript is rubbish to real colleges."
Evergreen has a relatively good reputation despite being nontraditional -- the further away you get from Washington state, the better the rep is. :) The evaluations are actually more informative than a typical transcript, and the school has been around long enough that admissions offices may be familiar with the format anyway. Many people transfer out of TESC or go on from TESC to good grad schools with no trouble. (The only trouble I had was that I didn't have a GPA, so I was accepted to grad school under a probationary term, and I had to keep a 3.00 for the first semester or two to stay in the program, whereas if I'd had a GPA to give them I wouldn't have been on probation. But they let me in just fine.) You are worrying too much.
However, not all credits are likely to transfer. This is not because it's Evergreen, but because it's really common when transferring anywhere for some credits not to be accepted. Also, some schools require more than a year of residency. So you would be likely to have to spend more than a year at another school.
Evergreen is less strict about residency than many schools, or at least, they were when I was there. I took my last 20 credits at the University of Washington, over a full time Summer Quarter and a night class in the Fall, because I wanted to take some courses that TESC didn't have available that year (intensive Japanese language). So that's another possibility; you can take courses at the UW in the summer (which doesn't require matriculating at the UW) while remaining an Evergreen student, and apply those credits to Evergreen. Or perhaps at another school in the area, maybe closer to Olympia.
"I don't know if I am being too selfish, or expecting too much out of college, or wanderlusting for another campus, or even capable of transferring if I chose to."
Well, maybe, yes, yes, and yes, probably. ;) Not that any of that is terrible. I think it's actually pretty common to go through some disillusionment and wanting to try another program or campus when you get to the junior year. Not just for Greeners, but in general. But Evergreen being an unusual place, it can cause you to wonder whether the grass is greener on the "normal" side. :)
With less than a year and a half left, though, I'd stick it out at Evergreen and do what you can to enhance the academic situation. You can make that happen at TESC, seriously. You don't need to sit back and wait for the right program to be offered.
Good luck!
posted by litlnemo at 1:02 AM on February 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
Sounds like a tough situation; I hope everything works out. I don't really have an "answer", but here are some things that occurred to me:
-Your transcript may or may not be rubbish to a real college (I don't really know), but don't be scared to find out. Talk to some other schools.
-While you're talking to those schools, you can also figure out whether finishing up at Evergreen and then heading to grad school for your chosen subject is feasible.
-Even a worthless transcript can't prevent you from getting a good degree at a good school. You may have to take more classes, or maybe even go to a community college for a little while first, but if you're motivated and financially able, you can do it.
-Taking a year or two off while your girlfriend finishes school is an option, too. And you don't necessarily have to spend that time in a dead-end retail job, either--you can learn a skilled job like construction or cooking.
-If you do stay in town, the question of whether it's better to finish school or to get a job depends largely on how useful your degree will be. So there's another thing to research: find out what employers think of your school.
-You're not selfish and you're not expecting too much. You should be challenged at school, and you should find a career you like. Sometimes you do have to make hard choices, and that doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong. There isn't a right choice here.
posted by equalpants at 1:10 AM on February 14, 2008
-Your transcript may or may not be rubbish to a real college (I don't really know), but don't be scared to find out. Talk to some other schools.
-While you're talking to those schools, you can also figure out whether finishing up at Evergreen and then heading to grad school for your chosen subject is feasible.
-Even a worthless transcript can't prevent you from getting a good degree at a good school. You may have to take more classes, or maybe even go to a community college for a little while first, but if you're motivated and financially able, you can do it.
-Taking a year or two off while your girlfriend finishes school is an option, too. And you don't necessarily have to spend that time in a dead-end retail job, either--you can learn a skilled job like construction or cooking.
-If you do stay in town, the question of whether it's better to finish school or to get a job depends largely on how useful your degree will be. So there's another thing to research: find out what employers think of your school.
-You're not selfish and you're not expecting too much. You should be challenged at school, and you should find a career you like. Sometimes you do have to make hard choices, and that doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong. There isn't a right choice here.
posted by equalpants at 1:10 AM on February 14, 2008
Oh, I should add that "silly nonsense things to fill the time" are pretty common at other schools, too. Other schools have specific requirements to get your degree, some of which may seem less than relevant to what you want to do, or not all that interesting. But you have to take them anyway. There aren't many schools where every moment is fascinating and academically challenging.
Evergreen does not have specific degree requirements (unless it's changed a lot since I was there) which is both a strength and a weakness; you never have to take busywork classes that aren't in your area of interest unless you want to -- but I believe that sometimes taking the courses you wouldn't have chosen, and thus stretching your mind, is a valuable part of the college experience. You can still do this at TESC, of course, but it's hard to make oneself do it sometimes. So that, at least, is an argument for at least taking some courses outside of Evergreen.
I went from TESC --> community college --> back to TESC and so in the meantime I had to take the CC's requirements to get an AA, and I am really glad I did that; I never would have voluntarily taken Logic, for example, but I am grateful the CC made me take it. But I am also glad I went back to Evergreen to finish up the BA.
posted by litlnemo at 1:11 AM on February 14, 2008
Evergreen does not have specific degree requirements (unless it's changed a lot since I was there) which is both a strength and a weakness; you never have to take busywork classes that aren't in your area of interest unless you want to -- but I believe that sometimes taking the courses you wouldn't have chosen, and thus stretching your mind, is a valuable part of the college experience. You can still do this at TESC, of course, but it's hard to make oneself do it sometimes. So that, at least, is an argument for at least taking some courses outside of Evergreen.
I went from TESC --> community college --> back to TESC and so in the meantime I had to take the CC's requirements to get an AA, and I am really glad I did that; I never would have voluntarily taken Logic, for example, but I am grateful the CC made me take it. But I am also glad I went back to Evergreen to finish up the BA.
posted by litlnemo at 1:11 AM on February 14, 2008
I too have been a little disenchanted by university along the way, and I've been in a long distance relationship as well. Becoming happier with your study is FAR easier than becoming happier with long distance. If you can't improve your program there (and there seem to be lots of great suggestions in this thread), then do things outside of college. Learn a language, take up a hobby, do something intellectually challenging.
Transferring to another college sounds pretty difficult, and is no guarantee that you'll be happier. It IS a guarantee that your life with your girlfriend will become much harder. Long distance isn't an insurmountable problem, but it's certainly not one I'd choose unless it was absolutely essential.
posted by twirlypen at 1:34 AM on February 14, 2008
Transferring to another college sounds pretty difficult, and is no guarantee that you'll be happier. It IS a guarantee that your life with your girlfriend will become much harder. Long distance isn't an insurmountable problem, but it's certainly not one I'd choose unless it was absolutely essential.
posted by twirlypen at 1:34 AM on February 14, 2008
Finish up. It absolutely isn't worth transferring as third-year, and honestly there are much worse places you could be. In my experience, if even one-third of your academic classes are actually interesting to you then you are doing quite well at your institution of choice. Trust me, I went through a small experimental liberal arts school, two community colleges, and a state university in search of that magical place. After all of it, I would have been much better staying where I started.
Transferring to a more "traditional" school is going to be fraught with general education requirements you have absolutely no interest in, and although these classes are not without value, if you are already frustrated at a school that allows as much freedom as Evergreen you are going to be doubly unhappy somewhere less forgiving. Also, it sounds like you have a great thing in your girlfriend and you would be extremely foolish to give that up for rainbow dreams. One more year, then you can do whatever you want.
posted by sophist at 1:51 AM on February 14, 2008
Transferring to a more "traditional" school is going to be fraught with general education requirements you have absolutely no interest in, and although these classes are not without value, if you are already frustrated at a school that allows as much freedom as Evergreen you are going to be doubly unhappy somewhere less forgiving. Also, it sounds like you have a great thing in your girlfriend and you would be extremely foolish to give that up for rainbow dreams. One more year, then you can do whatever you want.
posted by sophist at 1:51 AM on February 14, 2008
All I'll say, as someone who went to a very traditional, very esteemed, world-famous university:
silly nonsense things to fill the time
This happens everywhere. The fact that you've figured out what you find to be nonsense — that's education.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 2:57 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
silly nonsense things to fill the time
This happens everywhere. The fact that you've figured out what you find to be nonsense — that's education.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 2:57 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I am surprised that no one has noted the most important point made by the OP:
"We live together seamlessly, are working on a beekeeping apprenticeship together, and keeping each other sane. "
Anyone who can say that has a lot going in the right direction already.
posted by yclipse at 4:34 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
"We live together seamlessly, are working on a beekeeping apprenticeship together, and keeping each other sane. "
Anyone who can say that has a lot going in the right direction already.
posted by yclipse at 4:34 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I concur with litlnemo.
FWIW, I graduated from Antioch, another non-traditional college that eschews grades for narrative evaluations. I just got into two competitive grad school programs, and my somewhat unique educational background has provoked some good dialog during job interviews. So check with your school administrators, but I wouldn't worry too much on that score.
posted by metabrilliant at 4:43 AM on February 14, 2008
FWIW, I graduated from Antioch, another non-traditional college that eschews grades for narrative evaluations. I just got into two competitive grad school programs, and my somewhat unique educational background has provoked some good dialog during job interviews. So check with your school administrators, but I wouldn't worry too much on that score.
posted by metabrilliant at 4:43 AM on February 14, 2008
Distance learning?!
posted by unclejeffy at 4:47 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by unclejeffy at 4:47 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I transferred from a traditional college to a much better traditional college, and had to do a whole extra year just to make up credits that didn't transfer (or worse, transferred as electives). I later learned that I probably would have been better off just staying put and doing a serious independent study. It sounds like you've got a good thing going with your SO. If I were in your shoes, I'd find a professor or two for whom you have a lot of respect, and get crackin' on a major project. That way, you can find the intellectual stimulation you desire and have something tangible to show for your efforts.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 5:19 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by solipsophistocracy at 5:19 AM on February 14, 2008
"It is also a known for being unconventional, and accepting anything for credit."
Can you go on leave... take classes elsewhere, either locally or by distance learning... then transfer the credits back to Evergreen and then take a final course and then graduate?
posted by Jahaza at 5:47 AM on February 14, 2008
Can you go on leave... take classes elsewhere, either locally or by distance learning... then transfer the credits back to Evergreen and then take a final course and then graduate?
posted by Jahaza at 5:47 AM on February 14, 2008
Yes, finish up. A BA is a BA is a BA, by and large (with exceptions for degree mills and so on). Evergreen has a great reputation and if you want to get into grad school you will have no problems (assuming good evaluations and good GREs).
And if you did decide to transfer, there are a whole set of good liberal arts colleges within half a day's drive from where you are -- UPS, Reed, Lewis and Clark, Willamette, Whitman, maybe a couple more I am forgetting -- never mind the state schools (UW, PSU, etc); all of them are totally familiar with students transferring to and from Evergreen. Depending on what you have taken, things may or may not transfer well, and you may have to transfer in as a sophomore, which means you will be a student longer and it will cost you more money. But all of the colleges I named would let you see your girlfriend at least once a week, if you have a car and don't mind driving all the time.
Really, it is less work to just stay where you are, accept the imperfections, and enjoy the benefits of sleeping together every night instead of a couple of times a month. And don't underestimate how much of a drag on your time and ability to form close connections maintaining a serious long distance relationship can be -- all the chem students will be studying together this weekend... except you who is driving to see the GF. The outdoor club is going on a neat trip to the mountains... but you are driving up I-5. Your housemates are having a great conversation... and you are in your room IMing your girlfriend.
posted by Forktine at 6:11 AM on February 14, 2008
And if you did decide to transfer, there are a whole set of good liberal arts colleges within half a day's drive from where you are -- UPS, Reed, Lewis and Clark, Willamette, Whitman, maybe a couple more I am forgetting -- never mind the state schools (UW, PSU, etc); all of them are totally familiar with students transferring to and from Evergreen. Depending on what you have taken, things may or may not transfer well, and you may have to transfer in as a sophomore, which means you will be a student longer and it will cost you more money. But all of the colleges I named would let you see your girlfriend at least once a week, if you have a car and don't mind driving all the time.
Really, it is less work to just stay where you are, accept the imperfections, and enjoy the benefits of sleeping together every night instead of a couple of times a month. And don't underestimate how much of a drag on your time and ability to form close connections maintaining a serious long distance relationship can be -- all the chem students will be studying together this weekend... except you who is driving to see the GF. The outdoor club is going on a neat trip to the mountains... but you are driving up I-5. Your housemates are having a great conversation... and you are in your room IMing your girlfriend.
posted by Forktine at 6:11 AM on February 14, 2008
Every educational institution has fluff courses. Changing schools simply for that reason doesn't make sense. Attending a different university to study a very specific subject from a specific professor might make sense, but as others have said, it sounds like you have options where you are.
My best friend and his wife went to Evergreen. He attended professional school, and although a couple of places he applied got his transcript -- a tome of professor evaluation -- and asked, "what the hell is this," he managed to go to great school. Whether he "fitted in" or not is an entirely other question. He did go to Evergreen, after all :)
Find yourself a challenge!
posted by GPF at 6:14 AM on February 14, 2008
My best friend and his wife went to Evergreen. He attended professional school, and although a couple of places he applied got his transcript -- a tome of professor evaluation -- and asked, "what the hell is this," he managed to go to great school. Whether he "fitted in" or not is an entirely other question. He did go to Evergreen, after all :)
Find yourself a challenge!
posted by GPF at 6:14 AM on February 14, 2008
"and the rest has been silly nonsense things to fill the time."
Honestly, this is the college experience most people have. I know this will queue up 27 people telling you how rigorous and intellectually stimulating their four years at State School Ivy Ed were, but after attending three undergraduate schools, I can honestly tell you that I only remember three classes that really informed and stretched me in a way that is meaningful ten years later.
The general skills I developed in college - regular writing, independent living, working on relationships - are the important things I got from that experience.
If you can do self-directed study, do it. If you enjoy academic rigor, talk to an advisor about a self-directed study project culminating in something (say, a thesis) that will help you into grad school or what have you.
But do not, under any circumstances, underestimate how very cool it is to have the freedom and opportunity to do a bee keeping apprenticeship with someone you love. And I am not even kidding.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:19 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Honestly, this is the college experience most people have. I know this will queue up 27 people telling you how rigorous and intellectually stimulating their four years at State School Ivy Ed were, but after attending three undergraduate schools, I can honestly tell you that I only remember three classes that really informed and stretched me in a way that is meaningful ten years later.
The general skills I developed in college - regular writing, independent living, working on relationships - are the important things I got from that experience.
If you can do self-directed study, do it. If you enjoy academic rigor, talk to an advisor about a self-directed study project culminating in something (say, a thesis) that will help you into grad school or what have you.
But do not, under any circumstances, underestimate how very cool it is to have the freedom and opportunity to do a bee keeping apprenticeship with someone you love. And I am not even kidding.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:19 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
"The outdoor club is going on a neat trip to the mountains... but you are driving up I-5."
Heh, yes. Do not underestimate how much a weekly or more I-5 drive of 70 miles or so each way would eat your soul.
(Been there, done that, never want to do it again.)
posted by litlnemo at 6:33 AM on February 14, 2008
Heh, yes. Do not underestimate how much a weekly or more I-5 drive of 70 miles or so each way would eat your soul.
(Been there, done that, never want to do it again.)
posted by litlnemo at 6:33 AM on February 14, 2008
I hated my degree program and was convinced that I chose the wrong path. Everyone was telling me to follow my dreams, leave my alma mater for another school with only two semesters to go, I'd never have another chance, the money is worth it, blah blah blah. People are going to be very idealistic when it's not their life. I stuck with it, got the degree and stayed with the college boyfriend. The piece of paper is worth it. Stick it out and pursue any chance you have to make what's left of your education worth your while.
posted by sian at 6:39 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by sian at 6:39 AM on February 14, 2008
I went to an alternative high school that was weird in many of the ways that Evergreen is weird. The nearby colleges — the big state school in town, the smaller one in the next county over, the private ones on our half of the state — all already had a policy on dealing with us as freshman applicants. (Generally it was a favorable one. Apparently, it was their experience that we tended to do well, despite lacking AP credits and all that fancy nonsense.)
I mention that because there may be a similar situation where you are. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that other schools in WA already have a policy on dealing with transfer applications from Evergreen students. And I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that it was a favorable one.
Just call and ask — "How will my Evergreen credits show up if I transfer here?" Because a lot's going to depend on the answer to that question, yes?
(For what it's worth, too — yes, there will be fluff classes everywhere. Wherever you go, it's your responsibility to make sure that you're challenging yourself, because the school really won't do it for you.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:51 AM on February 14, 2008
I mention that because there may be a similar situation where you are. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that other schools in WA already have a policy on dealing with transfer applications from Evergreen students. And I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that it was a favorable one.
Just call and ask — "How will my Evergreen credits show up if I transfer here?" Because a lot's going to depend on the answer to that question, yes?
(For what it's worth, too — yes, there will be fluff classes everywhere. Wherever you go, it's your responsibility to make sure that you're challenging yourself, because the school really won't do it for you.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:51 AM on February 14, 2008
I think it's important to consider that it is somewhat unlikely that you would be able to finish up your degree at another college in one year. Most schools are going to have certain course requirements (e.g. you must take one math, one science, one humanities, and one semester of a foreign language) and additional requirements within your major (e.g. if you were studying political science: one American government class, one comparative poltics, one international relations, one political theory) that you largely will not have fulfilled already, because of the nontraditional nature of your current studies.
Just something to consider. I really like the idea of creating an independent study.
posted by naoko at 7:26 AM on February 14, 2008
Just something to consider. I really like the idea of creating an independent study.
posted by naoko at 7:26 AM on February 14, 2008
(Maybe what I said was a little redundant, but I think that most of the above comments on transferring credits were just about how to rack up total credit hours, and didn't specifically take into consideration the challenge of filling what at the schools I attended were known as Distribution Requirements or General Ed Requirements, plus requirements for your major.)
posted by naoko at 7:30 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by naoko at 7:30 AM on February 14, 2008
No, offense, but this is funny to me. I go to a ginormous big state school and I have one friend who goes to Evergreen. I always felt jealous of them because I felt like Evergreen would have people who cared about learning and interesting classes, while I'm stuck in some giant lecture on accounting with 500 other people who would rather be drunk. I've never been there, but that was the idyllic picture I imagine.
Lately though, I've realized undergrad is a sort of purgatory for most people. OK, maybe purgatory is a silly metaphor. Let's be realistic: it's a $#&*^$# waste of time for most people. 90% of my classes I could have just bought a book and learned exactly the same thing on my own. Almost all of the good experiences I've had have involved jobs and activities outside of school. You'll probably learn more in bee-keeping than you will in most classes.
But somewhere along the line our society said that a bachelors, even if it's in basket weaving, is a rite of passage of sorts. So I say just stick it out. Maybe try to do independent study with a professor you like or just study on your own. I have done both.
Another option, if your girlfriend is a student, is that you both could study abroad?
posted by melissam at 7:35 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Lately though, I've realized undergrad is a sort of purgatory for most people. OK, maybe purgatory is a silly metaphor. Let's be realistic: it's a $#&*^$# waste of time for most people. 90% of my classes I could have just bought a book and learned exactly the same thing on my own. Almost all of the good experiences I've had have involved jobs and activities outside of school. You'll probably learn more in bee-keeping than you will in most classes.
But somewhere along the line our society said that a bachelors, even if it's in basket weaving, is a rite of passage of sorts. So I say just stick it out. Maybe try to do independent study with a professor you like or just study on your own. I have done both.
Another option, if your girlfriend is a student, is that you both could study abroad?
posted by melissam at 7:35 AM on February 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
How old are you? 22? 23? Just finish your degree and think about something else.
posted by thomas144 at 7:47 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by thomas144 at 7:47 AM on February 14, 2008
Just finish the degree and be done with it. It's really pretty simple. After your first job, no one will care what college you went to anyway—and while in many cases I'd say a "sunk cost" is no reason to continue doing something, it is most definitely a reason to continue at the same college for a mere year and a half more. Figure out how to propose your own independent study in something if you're uninterested in the offerings they have, or as an Evergreen alum or two suggested above, figure out a way to take classes somewhere else to finish the degree. But don't mess up what sounds like a good thing going, relationship-wise, just 'cause you're experiencing a bit of malaise in terms of your choices and prospects for courses.
posted by limeonaire at 8:06 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by limeonaire at 8:06 AM on February 14, 2008
Have you thought about going abroad for a semester? Even if Evergreen doesn't have any programs, the School for International Training has great programs all over the world.
Learning how to teach yourself how to learn, how to create the kind of environment you need to learn, what you're really interested in doing, figuring out how to challenge yourself, and how to really think--all things non-traditional colleges tend to focus on--is invaluable. Once you start working you'll find a lot of interesting careers require and value those abilities and you'll be ahead of people that spent four years at Big School taking all required classes for their major and just kind of floating along.
That + fantastic relationship + beekeeping apprenticeship = an experience worth sticking with for another year.
posted by min at 8:37 AM on February 14, 2008
Learning how to teach yourself how to learn, how to create the kind of environment you need to learn, what you're really interested in doing, figuring out how to challenge yourself, and how to really think--all things non-traditional colleges tend to focus on--is invaluable. Once you start working you'll find a lot of interesting careers require and value those abilities and you'll be ahead of people that spent four years at Big School taking all required classes for their major and just kind of floating along.
That + fantastic relationship + beekeeping apprenticeship = an experience worth sticking with for another year.
posted by min at 8:37 AM on February 14, 2008
My knee-jerk response to this was "don't make life decisions based on your significant other," because I've done that and regretted it tremendously.
Then I read below the line and realized that, um, I actually know you and your girlfriend, and you're both mature, intelligent, sane, and awesome enough to make such decisions. There's my lesson for the day on judging people on the internet.
I will nth the suggestion of an Individual Contract. Independent study is a fantastic opportunity, given the right professor.
posted by moonlet at 9:09 AM on February 14, 2008
Then I read below the line and realized that, um, I actually know you and your girlfriend, and you're both mature, intelligent, sane, and awesome enough to make such decisions. There's my lesson for the day on judging people on the internet.
I will nth the suggestion of an Individual Contract. Independent study is a fantastic opportunity, given the right professor.
posted by moonlet at 9:09 AM on February 14, 2008
The drive from Oly to Portland would probably take under two hours. Reed would challenge you, but at this late date, I wouldn't recommend transferring to Reed, or anywhere else. Reed has a lot of pieces that have to be in place before you begin your Senior year, and pretty much anywhere has its share of bullshit.
My friend was just commenting that he was really impressed with how well his wife and pretty much all her friends had managed to build lives for themselves that let them build up to unique and unconventional careers, finding jobs that supported them while still affording the time and attention to eventually make a living doing what they really want to do. It sounds like you and your partner may already headed in that direction.
If you cant put together something that gets you psyched at school next year, you might consider taking a year off and throwing yourself into something other than school for a while. If the subsequent years offerings are no better, you could transfer and she could move with you since she will have graduated ( I assume ).
posted by Good Brain at 9:22 AM on February 14, 2008
My friend was just commenting that he was really impressed with how well his wife and pretty much all her friends had managed to build lives for themselves that let them build up to unique and unconventional careers, finding jobs that supported them while still affording the time and attention to eventually make a living doing what they really want to do. It sounds like you and your partner may already headed in that direction.
If you cant put together something that gets you psyched at school next year, you might consider taking a year off and throwing yourself into something other than school for a while. If the subsequent years offerings are no better, you could transfer and she could move with you since she will have graduated ( I assume ).
posted by Good Brain at 9:22 AM on February 14, 2008
most importantly. I'm living with my girlfriend of over a year and a half. We live together seamlessly, are working on a beekeeping apprenticeship together, and keeping each other sane. We have our hearts set on staying together through college and after
The first two of your words answer your question.
My wife is the most valuable thing I got out of my (shortened) college experience. The apprenticeship that I got when I was 20 years old, pretty much led me directly into a successful career in a field that I love.
Stay at Evergreen. A degree from there is as or more valuable than a degree from anywhere that would accept a Senior transfer (unless you wanted to repeat a year) -- and a few years after graduation, 90% of BA's become essentially alike. Take classes elsewhere over the summer if you want to reduce your time in fluffy courses and interact in a larger community where you might make more connections by sheer volume alone. Consider creating a program surrounding your beekeeping activities. If it's a great place when you're challenged/involved, then do whatever it takes for you to be challenged/involved.
Most people don't graduate college with much in the way of actual career skills, or the ability to maintain a long-term adult relationship. You might be able to have both, and you're thinking about walking away?
posted by toxic at 9:32 AM on February 14, 2008
The first two of your words answer your question.
My wife is the most valuable thing I got out of my (shortened) college experience. The apprenticeship that I got when I was 20 years old, pretty much led me directly into a successful career in a field that I love.
Stay at Evergreen. A degree from there is as or more valuable than a degree from anywhere that would accept a Senior transfer (unless you wanted to repeat a year) -- and a few years after graduation, 90% of BA's become essentially alike. Take classes elsewhere over the summer if you want to reduce your time in fluffy courses and interact in a larger community where you might make more connections by sheer volume alone. Consider creating a program surrounding your beekeeping activities. If it's a great place when you're challenged/involved, then do whatever it takes for you to be challenged/involved.
Most people don't graduate college with much in the way of actual career skills, or the ability to maintain a long-term adult relationship. You might be able to have both, and you're thinking about walking away?
posted by toxic at 9:32 AM on February 14, 2008
I left out of my middle paragraph above that my friends wife and her friends went to evergreen.
posted by Good Brain at 9:48 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by Good Brain at 9:48 AM on February 14, 2008
Depending on what you want to do with your life, Evergreen could be a good choice. People who graduate from there are likely to be highly creative and most likely highly sought after in a variety of fields. That's just my opinion. I would make the best of it and enjoy your relationship with your girlfriend. Most people I know didn't know what they wanted to do in college and they still don't.
posted by hulahulagirl at 9:57 AM on February 14, 2008
posted by hulahulagirl at 9:57 AM on February 14, 2008
I was at Evergreen for my first year and transferred to Wisconsin-Madison for my final 3. In hindsight, I'm not sorry I made the transfer but it's clear to me that I didn't give Evergreen the shot it deserved, and for similar academic reasons to you. The core program I was in for my first two quarters was not very good, and I based my entire decision on transferring based on that experience. In my last quarter I had a fantastic program, but I'd already shut the door on the school mentally.
Transferring from Evergreen was actually easier IMO than if I'd gone to a traditional school. I applied to transfer to 3 other schools (one of which had rejected me as a freshman applicant) and I got into all of them. My theory was that admissions offices looked at the transcript and decided to let me in because
I don't think you should transfer though--you're pretty far in already, more than halfway if you're on track for a 4-year graduation. Regardless, you should get a clear handle on whether tranferring will tack on more time to getting a degree, and whether you're willing to make that move. The main problem I had with my transfer was that for my degree (Zoology), there was a requirement that the "in major" coursework be almost completely done at Wisconsin. I only found this out in my senior year and had to scramble and pile on the Zoology courses in my final semester so I could graduate on time. Make sure you read all the degree requirements of the school you are thinking of going to before doing it.
I feel for you though...I never fit in at Evergreen either. I liked so many aspects of that school but never quite felt like I belonged. It's a small school with a limited scope of personality-types. I had no such trouble finding my peeps at Wisconsin.
One final word of advice-- Evergreen allows you to "grow your own" program. It sounds to me like you need to stop looking at the course catalog and devise coursework of your own interest. Get some profs to sponsor you on it, and then motivate yourself to really dive into it. Could be the course you're missing is the one you design.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:28 AM on February 14, 2008
Transferring from Evergreen was actually easier IMO than if I'd gone to a traditional school. I applied to transfer to 3 other schools (one of which had rejected me as a freshman applicant) and I got into all of them. My theory was that admissions offices looked at the transcript and decided to let me in because
I don't think you should transfer though--you're pretty far in already, more than halfway if you're on track for a 4-year graduation. Regardless, you should get a clear handle on whether tranferring will tack on more time to getting a degree, and whether you're willing to make that move. The main problem I had with my transfer was that for my degree (Zoology), there was a requirement that the "in major" coursework be almost completely done at Wisconsin. I only found this out in my senior year and had to scramble and pile on the Zoology courses in my final semester so I could graduate on time. Make sure you read all the degree requirements of the school you are thinking of going to before doing it.
I feel for you though...I never fit in at Evergreen either. I liked so many aspects of that school but never quite felt like I belonged. It's a small school with a limited scope of personality-types. I had no such trouble finding my peeps at Wisconsin.
One final word of advice-- Evergreen allows you to "grow your own" program. It sounds to me like you need to stop looking at the course catalog and devise coursework of your own interest. Get some profs to sponsor you on it, and then motivate yourself to really dive into it. Could be the course you're missing is the one you design.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:28 AM on February 14, 2008
sorry, had an incomplete paragraph up there...
"decided to let me in because..." they weren't sure how to deal with it. I received 33 semester credits for my year at Evergreen, and they transferred very nicely into traditional course equivalents (Freshman English, Creative Writing, Biology, etc.).
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:36 AM on February 14, 2008
"decided to let me in because..." they weren't sure how to deal with it. I received 33 semester credits for my year at Evergreen, and they transferred very nicely into traditional course equivalents (Freshman English, Creative Writing, Biology, etc.).
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:36 AM on February 14, 2008
Nthing the comments from other posters that a large part of undergraduate degrees in the US is taking fluff courses. I'm doing electrical engineering, which you'd consider one of the less fluffy degrees, but even we have to take BS courses like "Project Management"(an exercise in powerpoint making and listening to two old guys drone on about working for defense contractors), "Engineering Ethics", the usual general ed everyone has to do, etc.
posted by pravit at 12:38 PM on February 14, 2008
posted by pravit at 12:38 PM on February 14, 2008
If your beekeeping apprenticeship is really rocking bells, then maybe you can turn that into an independent contract!
Also, leaning over the screen, mr. epersonae says "just stick with it and be with the one you love." (he went to Evergreen for a while a long time ago, then finished his BA at UWT a couple of years back. that last was a good education, but the commute from Oly to Tacoma was a PITA.)
And yeah, anywhere else you go is almost certainly going to want 2 years of credits there, so you're automatically going to have to put in an extra year. AND, to fit into a specific program, you may even need to take additional specific classes. Totally not worth it.
posted by epersonae at 8:07 PM on February 14, 2008
Also, leaning over the screen, mr. epersonae says "just stick with it and be with the one you love." (he went to Evergreen for a while a long time ago, then finished his BA at UWT a couple of years back. that last was a good education, but the commute from Oly to Tacoma was a PITA.)
And yeah, anywhere else you go is almost certainly going to want 2 years of credits there, so you're automatically going to have to put in an extra year. AND, to fit into a specific program, you may even need to take additional specific classes. Totally not worth it.
posted by epersonae at 8:07 PM on February 14, 2008
Response by poster: Well, I'm staying at Evergreen and going to try to get a contract on hypermodernity for next quarter. You people are great! Thanks all!
posted by TwelveTwo at 5:10 PM on February 15, 2008
posted by TwelveTwo at 5:10 PM on February 15, 2008
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The biggest practical issue is likely to be your stage in the 4-year degree process: I don't know if many other colleges would accept you as a senior and give you a degree after only one year with them. This means you might well be choosing between one more year at Evergreen and two more years at another college. Obviously that would have money implications as well as personal ones -- AND possibly relationship ones if you and your girlfriend are both now third-year and would graduate at the same time if you stayed at Evergreen.
If you feel like elaborating, one thing that might help other people advise you is giving us any idea about your goals for after college. You make it clear that you're understimulated now, but is it also true that your current education isn't preparing you for whatever you want to be doing a year and a half from now? (Or am I not understanding your beekeeping apprenticeship? Does that mean you and she are interested in beekeeping together as your post-college life?)
p.s. Weirdly, the love of my young life transferred TO Evergreen, after our sophomore year... we didn't correspond much after that, despite our best intentions and promises, and it was very sad... and that's all I can offer in the anecotal land of the long-distance relationship...
posted by lorimer at 12:06 AM on February 14, 2008