Hilfe, I weiß not in welcher language ich soll write!

February 11, 2008 6:14 AM

Creative writing in your second language: good or bad idea?

English is my second language, German my first. I've been writing academic texts in English for years. I almost exclusively read English literature/poetry/nonfiction, I also spend a lot of time on predominantly U.S. websites (like this one); not because I don't like German, but because there's more/better English stuff around.

Here's my problem: at the moment, I'm beginning to enjoy creative writing quite a lot, and would like to work on this hobby/talent. But whenever I try writing in my native language, I find it very hard to express myself. By contrast, when writing in English, I get into the "flow" state quite easily. It just feels much more natural and less restrained or controlled.
However, I'm very reluctant about (e.g.) doing "creative writing" exercises in English. There are several reasons:

1. In retrospect, I'm very unsure about the language I use, word choices etc., and find it hard to assess whether it is any good. I find this much easier when I write in German (which is probably a reason why I don't enjoy writing in German so much: instant self-criticism spoils the fun).
2. I have the vague feeling that doing creative writing is about tapping into primordial emotions etc., and that this just isn't possible when you're using a "foreign" language. Which is to say, my subconscious probably doesn't speak English, and by writing English, I'm losing all contact to it (which makes writing easier but not as good). Vague and strange theory, I know.
3. I don't want to spoil or forget my German writing skills. I would love to be able to experience the feeling I have when writing English in my German writing.
4. Going "bilingual" in this context seems awfully confusing and difficult. I would prefer to have one (creative) writing language, although I have no problem with bilingual academic writing.

Have you experienced similar problems? Should I go with what feels better now, or try working on my German? Might it, contrary to what I'm suggesting above, even be of advantage to write in your second language rather than your first, or to go bilingual (examples of writers welcome)? Any tips on how to make writing in my native tongue as fluent and fun as my English writing?

posted by The Toad to writing & language (26 comments total)

Well, for what it's worth, I'd never have guessed from your writing in the question that English wasn't your first language, so your fluency shouldn't concern you unduly. (Of course, depending on your favoured writing style, you mileage may vary - if you're attracted to a more flowery, intricate or verbose writing style, then you might run into more problems. But hey, it sounds like a great way to learn...)
posted by flashboy at 6:21 AM on February 11

The thing about creative writing is that it's...well, creative and comes from somewhere within yourself that you can't really define. When I was in High School and really started taking my German seriously, I started thinking and dreaming auf Deutsch. Then, when I became an exchange student and started taking in some real culture, I started writing in German as well. I'm one of those people with dozens of notebooks and sketchbooks all filled up with craziness.

I think it's very interesting to read second-language creative writing, as I BET you have some neat interpretations of this anglo world around you that some of us who have been here forever don't quite have.

For me, my German friends liked my writing because it tended to be a little more laid back than they were used to, and it definitely didn't follow their normal syncopations and speech patterns.

For what it's worth, I wrote poems mostly, and most of them sucked. Writing is catharsis though, sucky or not.
posted by TomMelee at 6:26 AM on February 11

For what it's worth, English is my third language, and I definitely prefer creative writing in English (as opposed to German or Chinese) because I'm much more familiar with it. Sometimes it's frustrating because I know there's an adjective or a phrase in a different language that would be perfect for what I'm trying to describe, but I can't think of the English equivalent, or the English equivalent doesn't exist. That's the only problem I've found thus far.

Not wanting to spoil/forget a language is a very different goal from creative writing in that language. You could be technically perfect in a language without wanting to use that language for expressive purposes.

Your objection number 2 depends largely on when you learned English, how immersed you were, where you live now, etc. I feel much more at ease with English, but I'll still slip in Chinese mannerisms - close the ligh as opposd to turn off the light for example, but I think you're overthinking the "primordial emotions" bit. I don't think the point of creative writing is necessarily to unleash your soul or suchwhat. It's just fun, y'know?

If it's easier in English, use English. This way at least you're writing - you seem to indicate that were you to choose German, you'd write much less. The act of writing itself is much more important than feeling divinely inspired, etc. If necessary, translate the whole thing into German later, compare and edit. It's not a irreversible decision. Just write. And best of luck!
posted by Phire at 6:28 AM on February 11

Nabokov wrote in English, and he was a native Russian speaker.

I doubt your subconscious "thinks" in German, if you're that good in English. Also, if you become famous you'll have a much broader market if your books are in English.
posted by delmoi at 6:29 AM on February 11

Your reluctance puts you in good company. Consider Nabokov, who had a multi-lingual upbringing in Russia, but did not begin writing fiction in English until he'd been living in the UK or USA for 20 years. He even translated some of his English works into Russian. But he, Joseph Campbell, and some other non-native speakers are very good wordsmiths in English, all in different ways.

As to tapping into your subconscious, well, I imagine different writers have different approaches.

I suggest you put your reservations about writing in English aside and dive in. If you're doing this mainly for personal satisfaction, do what satisfies you. There's no rule that you can't switch to German when you feel like it (you'll probably get into the flow of that more easily the more you do it, and the more you expose yourself to German-language media). And FWIW, based on the writing sample here, I wouldn't know you weren't a native speaker of English if you hadn't pointed it out.
posted by adamrice at 6:30 AM on February 11

examples of writers welcome

Nabokov was actually trilingual (Russian, French, English) as a child. Polish-born Joseph Conrad didn't master English until he was in his 20s and certainly found ways to tap into "primordial emotions etc." in his work.
posted by mediareport at 6:33 AM on February 11

You are probably overthinking this issue in general. Many people, including professional writers, find it difficult to sit down and write. If you are able to put your creative ideas down on paper and you enjoy doing it, why worry about what language you're using? Writing as a hobby should be about enjoying the art of crafting your work, so feel free to make whatever decisions you want about how and what you write.
posted by burnmp3s at 6:38 AM on February 11

One writer who certainly found an advantage writing in a second language (French, in his case) was Samuel Beckett. A couple of other examples: the Czech novelist Milan Kundera chose, from the early '90s, to write in French; and the Italian novelist Antonio Tabucchi wrote the novel Requiem in Portuguese.
posted by misteraitch at 6:55 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]

Apparently Conrad wrote in both Polish and English. I read somewhere that his Polish work, written under the name Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski, is very important in Polish literature. If you can do that, while learning your second language in you 20s, you are doing ok, I reckon.

Didn't James Joyce write in Norwegian? I read someplace he learned Norwegian to read Ibsen, and I have a vague memory that he wrote in it sometimes.

Just do it, I would say. What's the harm?
posted by vilcxjo_BLANKA at 7:01 AM on February 11

I'll echo the difficult vilcxjo_BLANKA and say" What's the harm? Your English appears as good or better than mine. Have fun with it and experiment. It's not like you have deadlines or deliverables for this kind of writing...it is meant for you.
posted by mmascolino at 7:05 AM on February 11

Ha Jin, I believe he writes in English, but learned it later in life. Not sure. I believe there is another Chinese writer who does the same (probably more than one).
posted by sully75 at 7:14 AM on February 11

As with anything else relating to the creative process, the only way to know is to try it. If you create something you and your readers enjoy, then it worked. If you don't, then it didn't: either try it again or try something else instead.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:36 AM on February 11

Agreeing- part of writing exercises is the gut wrench of feeling like you are not expressing yourself the way you want to. It's about practicing a skill and honing a talent.

One exercise I'd try if I were in your situation is to take the same story and do it in English and then German. Put them aside for a little while and then read them critically- do you see any substantive difference? Is there some feeling you were better able to express one way or the other? If you find that the German is more true to your vision, you'll know that you need to do more work.

But as others have said, there is very little benefit in having been a native speaker if you are an active speaker now.

(When I was taking languages in school, I found it more comfortable to actually train myself to think in the language at hand, so I didn't get sentences that might be correct, but sound funny. Like "throw me down the stairs my hat". It sounds like you might even be going the opposite way- you've trained yourself to think in English, and you're doing a sort of real time translation back into German when you are writing in it, and that's why the flow is gone. Just an idea.)
posted by gjc at 7:45 AM on February 11

I'm very unsure about the language I use, word choices etc., and find it hard to assess whether it is any good.

Lots of writers operating in their native languages have this problem -- don't worry about it. Writing is not supposed to be easy, writers are often unsure of how to proceed, writers are not usually good at self-criticism.

my subconscious probably doesn't speak English, and by writing English, I'm losing all contact to it (which makes writing easier but not as good). Vague and strange theory, I know.

Don't worry about what language your subconscious is operating in. (Although, my theory is that if you at least sometime dream in English, it's fluent in English.) You're not going to lose contact with your subconscious, in any event.

I don't want to spoil or forget my German writing skills

You won't. It's like riding a bicycle. Even without much practice for years, I can still speak and write my native language as well as I could when I left the country.

Going "bilingual" in this context seems awfully confusing and difficult.
That may be valid, but you'll get over it, I think. Seconding suggestions to go with what feels good.
posted by beagle at 8:16 AM on February 11

I relate a lot with your first point. English is my second language as well. I've never tried creative writing whether in english of in my native language. But i've written blog entries and other "essays" type of things in english and although there were probably a lot of grammatical mistakes in it, it felt much more easier.
I think it's because it's easier to desincarnate yourself when you speak in a different language, so you're not focusing on style so much. You don't realize all the choices you have to make, you don't realize what those choices say about you as a writer, you go for the most straightforward way of expressing yourself.
I get the same instant self-criticism as you do when i write in my native language. I can spot a writing cliché miles ahead and it drives me crazy when i find myself using it anyway. I use a lot of those in english but it just doesn't bother me the same way.
It does not apply only to writing but just about anything in english. Things like comedy that i would find very funny in english will left me cold in my native language.
posted by SageLeVoid at 8:19 AM on February 11

I imagine a successful work in English is on the whole likely to reach a somewhat wider audience than one in German, likely to make rather more money, more likely to be optioned as a film, and also more likely to be translated into German than the same work in German would be to get translated into English. But if it's just a hobby, that's irrelevant.
posted by Phanx at 8:47 AM on February 11

Incidentally, a fellow student on my philosophy degree course had German as his first language, and he said he found Kant far easier to understand in English translation than in the original German. Whether any of us understood him correctly in English is another matter, of course.
posted by Phanx at 8:50 AM on February 11

Beagle, I beg to disagree. That depends a lot on how old you were when you left the country. If you were a young child and if you immediately adapted English as your primary language, it's ridiculously easy to forget your native language. Happens to immigrant children all the time.
posted by Phire at 9:51 AM on February 11

OP here - very helpful comments so far! As I'm not planning to do fiction writing for publication (just for fun), the "more audience" point is moot, but I've also found it easier to look for creative writing tips and excercises, support forums, etc. in English rather than in German. The anglo-saxon approach here seems to be much more accessible than the German one, where creative writing is seen as something impenetrable that's "reserved" for real talents (rather than a hobby anyone can enjoy). So, one more point in favour of English.

I think I will, as most of you suggested, go ahead with writing in English (because it's fun), and I will also from time to time try doing similar excercises in German in order to compare (thanks gjc for this excellent suggestion).
I did know about Nabokov, but not about the other bilingual authors you mentioned - I've always enjoyed Joseph Conrad and would never have guessed that he wasn't writing in his first language!

Finally: Yes, I'm probably overthinking this, as many of you have pointed out.

Phanx, incidentally, I'm a philosopher myself (explains the overthinking, maybe). Kant is indeed much easier to read and understand in English, and doesn't necessarily lose anything in translation, if it's done well. When working on greek/roman philosophers, I use English rather than German translations, because the latter are often unnecessarily convoluted.
posted by The Toad at 9:56 AM on February 11

It's my experience too that it's much easier to write in a second language (english). For me the one reason is the lower level of self-criticism as SageLeVoid describes.

Wrt to the subconscious aspect of language, I do think that a native language that has been learned in relation to social and emotional situations that you were involved in is different from a language that has been learned from books, movies and websites. The first one is laden with strong social and emotional cues, so strong in fact that while writing those words these associations can make you uncomfortable. The latter is much more imitation and information.
So go with writing in English to have fun but if you were able to overcome your blockage in writing in German there's a change that the experience would be much more meaningful to yourself and your writing much more multi-layered and redolent of implied social, historical and emotional meanings.

So maybe you could start with writing English to really taste the joy of creative writing. Once you really have experienced that joyous part of writing you could start a transitional phase of carrying that joy over to writing in German and wear down the self-conscious embarrassment of writing in your native language. Much like gjs said.

Wrt to forgetting how to write in German; as long as you yourself are in Germany hearing, speaking and reading German the degradation won't be very marked. If you are abroad there's a high chance that your command of German will deteriorate but it's not clear that writing in German will save it.
posted by jouke at 10:02 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]

Don't let market considerations rule which language you write in. The German language market is huge, the largest in Europe. One can do extremely well without being well known in Anglophone countries. Just ask Manu Chao.

I can identify with your plight. I write both in English and Icelandic (my native tongue). Usually I know what language to use based on the audience for the story or poem. For instance, I'm on the verge of finishing a first draft of a novel in Icelandic. I chose to write it in Icelandic because it's about a group of Icelanders. The story was very specifically about Icelandic reality so it made no sense to write it in another language. When I finish this novel I will write some other story. Most of the stories vying for my attention are about stuff that happens to English speakers in America so writing those down in Icelandic seems silly to me. If one of these becomes the one I'm most interested in, I'll write in English.

So, my advice to you is to ask yourself: who's the story for?
posted by Kattullus at 10:17 AM on February 11 [1 favorite]

My preferred non-native language doesn't have a written form, but the culture surrounding it has a lot of performance and poetry, to the point that most second-language learners will take a class focusing on one or both of those in the course of their studies. And my dad, back in college, wrote his thesis on using theatrical performance to teach second languages.

Bottom line is, by doing these sorts of creative pursuits, you're breaking into a different linguistic context than you might otherwise remain in, and possibly expanding your comfort zone (always a plus in a second language). More importantly, performance and writing force you to think about the way you're using the language, even in your native one, and that can be helpful in honing a second language as well.

I say go for it.

One more thing: you say that you're more comfortable at the moment doing this sort of thing in English. Are you currently living somewhere such that English is the primary language you use? That can have a big effect on the way people use and feel about their native language, especially in the long-term (but even for short term use, it takes me a while to be totally comfortable when I go back to using my primary, native, language).
posted by spaceman_spiff at 10:52 AM on February 11

I've always enjoyed Joseph Conrad and would never have guessed that he wasn't writing in his first language!

Yeah, it was a shock to me, too. :)

vilcxjo_BLANKA: Apparently Conrad wrote in both Polish and English. I read somewhere that his Polish work, written under the name Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski, is very important in Polish literature.

I don't think that's true. In fact, Conrad took flak from Polish critics during his lifetime for writing in English instead of Polish. More info here (see "CONRAD'S RECEPTION IN POLAND"), where I'd also expect to find news that he created works in Polish that were "very important in Polish literature."
posted by mediareport at 11:10 AM on February 11

Didn't James Joyce write in Norwegian? I read someplace he learned Norwegian to read Ibsen, and I have a vague memory that he wrote in it sometimes.

Joyce Learned Norwegian in his late teens to read Ibsen and to write a fan letter to him, but I don't think he did any other real writing in the language apart from some Norwegian puns in Finnegans Wake.

Beckett's decision to write in French is interesting:

Samuel Beckett, Irish writer of French:
25. Beckett claimed: “It was a different experience from writing in English. It was more exciting for me – writing in French.” On another occasion, he suggested that, for him, English was overloaded with associations and allusions, his work in English throughout the 1930s bristled with erudite and literary allusions and what he called ‘Anglo-Irish exuberance and automatisms.” In this respect, the shift to writing in French may have been an important way of escaping
from the influence of James Joyce. It was also easier, Beckett maintained, to write in French ‘without style’. He did not mean by this that his French had no style, but that, by adopting another language, he gained a greater simplicity and objectivity. French offered him the freedom to concentrate on a more direct expression of the search for ‘being’ and on an exploration of ignorance, impotence, and indigence. Using French also enabled him to ‘cut away the excess, to strip away the color’ and to concentrate more on the music of the language, its sounds and its rhythms.
posted by newmoistness at 12:46 PM on February 11

My absolute favourite 'amateur' short story was written in English by someone whose first language was Cantonese IIRC. Go for it!
posted by indienial at 6:30 PM on February 11

Katullus: very interesting aspect! In fact, I prefer to write stuff that is not very realistic, or oriented towards specific time/place, at the moment. One reason for that is that writing about German people in English would seem extremely strange to me. If I wanted to do something more realistic (and involving German characters), I would probably simply have to do it in German, even if my writing is not intended for any specific audience.

spaceman spiff: I live in Germany and, apart from reading/TV and my work, am not exposed to English. I have spent less than 2 years overall in english speaking countries, and would not call myself "bilingual" (my actual conversational skills in English are far worse than listening comprehension/reading/writing). I also do not have problems with normal language use in German (e.g. the typical word-finding difficulties one sometimes has when coming back from foreign countries). It's just that I'm uncomfortable with my first language in fiction contexts. German seems stilted and difficult to me, when I write myself and also when I read fiction, even if it's good fiction.

newmoistness: Beckett's point about writing "without style" is exactly what I experience. A second language can be used, and experienced, as a (more or less) blank canvas on which somehow everything seems clearer, which seems to be an advantage for some types of writers/writing.
posted by The Toad at 5:44 AM on February 12