Dating for widows. Not the spider kind. Not the text layout kind.

February 7, 2008 9:03 PM

Widow in her mid-thirties would like some dating tips...

I'm in my mid thirties and my husband passed away about 7 years ago. (and no, this isn't the way I usually start conversations) I've tried to date on and off, but have not yet found anyone where there is any mutual desire to be "in a relationship". Some might say I haven't "dated" anyone, but I find that to be an ambiguous term. I date. I go on dates. I just don't sequentially date one individual.

I'm unclear on when or how to bring up my marital status. I don't generally mention it on the first date. I have mentioned it on the first date in response to questions like "So, have you ever been married?". Men usually seem shocked and distressed whether I simply state that I am a widow, or explain that I was married but my husband died. Then they usually start asking how he died, if it was expected, etc -- if I found out a man was divorced, I wouldn't start asking if it was expected, the details of the settlement, etc. on the first or second date. I usually try to steer the conversation back to getting to know each other a little better.

Friends have reassured me that men wouldn't particularly care that I'm widowed as far as making a decision to date me. I've noticed that some personals sites ask if you are interested in meeting people who are single, divorced, separated, or widowed. Many men seem to check off everything but widowed.

I think I've got a fairly positive attitude overall, and sometimes acquaintances comment on how happy I look, or that I'm always in a good mood. I'm reasonably outgoing, and don't feel that I need more men approaching me in public than currently do. I have tried to approach men once in a while, but find that their not approaching is usually a sign that they are just not that into me. I've been dipping my toe into online dating on okcupid, mainly because I felt discouraged by yahoo personals showing me profiles of men who don't want to date widows when I've checked off the box that says that's what my status is.

I've tried asking friends to introduce me to people, but I don't think this is common in my social circles, as I only met one man that way. I do a lot of activities I enjoy, and I do meet men this way, so I don't need to be told to join a club or take a class.

I make the effort to go on dates, but more often than not I don't find it to be a very enjoyable experience overall. Usually, I either don't enjoy the date itself, or I enjoy the date and wonder why I never hear from the guy again. I do pay attention to having a good balance of conversation, and even if I'm not having a great time I figure I can use the practice and might learn something.

Are men interested in attractive women in their mid thirties who happen to be widows? What and when is the best way to reveal this information?

Bonus question: Do most people enjoy going on first dates? I see that some people doing online dating want to date for "fun", and I'm not sure if that means "sex is fun" or "first dates are fun". BTW, I have no trouble at all meeting men for sex, this question is specifically about dating, as in meeting someone in a public place which would involve some sort of refreshment, conversation, and possibly some sort of activity done with clothes on.

Yes, I know there are online dating sites for widows/widowers, and they have very small memberships. Yes, I know there are support groups for "young" widows/widowers, and from my perspective these are groups of "older" widows/widowers. I've been to some, and have not found much in common with people there. Yes, I know there are online groups for widows, etc. And yes, I've already done counseling.

posted by anonymous to human relations (35 comments total)

Are men interested in attractive women in their mid thirties who happen to be widows? What and when is the best way to reveal this information?

Hearing your story that it doesn't seem to be a good subject of conversation I'd say keep the whole being a widow thing out off the dating game. Just say that the marriage ended. It's something seven years in your past that doesn't make you very different person from somebody who got divorced or whose long term relationship ended.

Although it would be surprising that it's such an issue. So I'd say that, yes, there are plenty of men are interested in attractive women in their thirties full stop.

There are a lot of posts on ask.metafilter on online dating. Maybe reading them will help you have more fun in dating and or be more successful.
posted by jouke at 9:36 PM on February 7, 2008

I don't really know where to begin, but here's what I know: My mom married a widower she met on an online dating service, when they were both in their late thirties. They took it really, really slow, and were just friends for a good long while. His first wife is a presence in all our lives, and there were some prickles with her family for his relative haste in remarrying. Life is messy and love is worth it. There's not some magic formula you need to learn, or some invisible sign around your neck. I will say this, though: look for more mature men.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:39 PM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I don't think the reason why you don't particularly enjoy first dates because you are a widow - perhaps you just don't like going on dates. Why not choose some different way of meeting potential mates (where l00z0rs don't have to check off little boxes about their likes and dislikes) such as hiking clubs, ballroom dancing clubs, etc? Or yoga. Or clearing invasive weed species at the local park. Volunteering at a soup kitchen or on a political campaign. Anywhere that you can get to know someone slowly, in bite-sized pieces, so to speak, instead of in the high pressure environment of a first date.

Straight men like attractive women. Period. Whether you're widowed or not doesn't make any difference. Basically, you were in a relationship long ago, but you aren't any more. Personal questions like former marital status are not really appropriate for a first date, anyway. Favourite movies, books, animals, all that sort of stuff. After you decide you like your potential 'partner' and develop some trust, you can share about your past.

Dating is pretty hard. I'm in my mid-thirties and have been married for ten years, and I kind of wonder what it would be like if I had to start all over again. But I would avoid online personals, etc. Too hit and miss.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:46 PM on February 7, 2008

I am surprised too. (Maybe you could view some people's bias against dating widows as a helpful way for you to filter out shallow people!)

More seriously, I think Miss Manners would say you can blow off the question if you don't feel like talking about it. Maybe try something like "Oh, I was once, but it was a long time ago, let's save that for another time. I want to hear more about ___."

It sounds to me like you are doing everything right, and it is hopefully just a matter of time before you meet someone you click with well.
posted by salvia at 9:48 PM on February 7, 2008

Aw, man. I'm going to let you in on the weird process I just went through, ok? Initially I thought "well, first thing, say you're sorry for her loss". And then I thought, "maybe that's weird to say? Since her whole point is that it was seven years ago and her widowhood's a drag?" And then I thought, "ugh, you jerk, just because it was seven years ago and she's more than ready to date again doesn't mean you don't say 'I'm sorry' when someone tells you her *husband* died."

So.

I'm a straight woman and we aren't on a date and I don't know what to say. I'll say this - as an on and off dating person, I'll be honest and admit that I wouldn't check the "yes, please, widower" box. This is more of a reflex than a well thought out plan. I'm a huge proponent of online dating, but one of the pitfalls is that *initially*, before anyone even meets, you can treat it like a catalog and only shop for someone who'd be a good imaginary partner. There are a million and one weird things about me, but they don't fit into boxes. One of the relatively unique things about you does, so that's a problem. I don't think a person should lie in their profile, but maybe if you snoop around you can find dating sites that don't have a box for that. It's better to get to know someone a bit first - and then, once the subject of romantic history comes up (which usually isn't on the first or even second date), you can let someone know. I don't know what you ordinarily say, but given what you wrote where you compared it to divorce and how you found follow up questions odd.... Maybe it'd be better to say *more* rather than less. I guess that I generally assume that a person's exes are exes for a reason - it didn't work out. You can't make that assumption when someone's partner died, and maybe by not talking a bit about what happened, when it was, what's happened since, etc. you're leaving too much room for them to assume that you're pining and don't have room in your life for someone new.
posted by moxiedoll at 9:52 PM on February 7, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Personally, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably say "I was married, once, years ago" and imply with your tone that it ended, you've moved past it, and you don't much care to talk about it. Then gently steer the conversation elsewhere. When you tell him, do it after a few dates, when you're more familiar. Telling someone about losing a loved one is more comfortable for both parties when you know one another better, I think- that way the information can draw him closer, not push him away because he's embarassed for asking. It's a tricky situation. The problem is that the word "widow" sounds sort of sad and depressed, so I think it's better not to apply that word to yourself until the date has time to learn for himself that no matter what your past, you yourself are not forever draped in those qualities. You sound pretty cool- I have no doubt you'll meet someone. Good luck!
posted by pseudostrabismus at 9:56 PM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I disagree with jouke -- both about your situation not being very different from being divorced/broken up, and on keeping it out of the story. I just met a young (early 30s) guy whose wife passed away last year -- and I found out accidentally when he, in the course of conversation, suggested that I google him. Maybe that was a way of getting me to find out (he told me flat out shortly afterwards, which suggests he might have expected me to bring it up? I don't really know). In any case, while it hasn't stopped me from being interested in him, it has given me pause -- and if we were to get into a relationship before he told me, I'd feel a little bit misled. Not because I have a phobia of widow(er)s, but because it seems like a very different emotional process than the end of a long-term relationship, which must on some level have been mutual -- or at least discussed by the parties in question, unlike death, which isn't debatable.

The way I feel about this particular situation may be because of the way his wife died -- in a way that was painful for him and that he has still not fully recovered from (by his own admission) -- and the situation may be different with the genders reversed (although I think that would be an oversimplification at best). Anyway, I was glad that he brought it up relatively soon (although not the first time we met or spoke), and very glad that he was honest about how he felt about it. Oddly enough, him admitting that he wasn't ready for a new "serious" relationship made it easier to relax, and our friendship is developing better than it probably would have otherwise as a result.

Apart from this anecdotal data point, I can't really answer your main question. But as for the bonus question -- yes, I really enjoy going on first dates. I find that most people are more interesting when they're new to me; I do things I may not ordinarily do with friends/by myself; and both of us are usually making more of an effort to be entertaining than we ever will again.
posted by obliquicity at 10:00 PM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm a single, dating-type man a little older than you and if on a first date a woman told me her husband had died I'd ask when and how, just because it seems like an important thing to know about someone you're trying to get to know better. Whereas if you just said "yes, I was married years ago" I wouldn't ask follow-up questions because, frankly, divorce stories are all grimly similar.

There's really no conversational recovery from "my husband died" that doesn't go through some form of "oh no - what happened?" But I'd have no problem at all hearing on a third or fourth date, or even after a relationship had started, that in fact you weren't divorced but widowed, or that you didn't want to talk about the details.
posted by nicwolff at 10:12 PM on February 7, 2008

Jouke, I'm not really sure how to say this without seeming like I'm gearing up for a smackdown, or making huge assumptions about anonymous. Neither is my goal.

Losing a partner to death does, in fact, make anonymous a very different person to someone who has lost their relationship to divorce. The fact it was seven years ago does not make it less pertinent. My college boyfriend was the victim of a homicide and I can assure you, in all of my relationships since, it's been an issue in one way or another, either for me or for my partner, in away my other previous relationships have not been.

Anon, to answer your questions:

Yes, I loved first dates. I like meeting new people so even if there were no 2nd dates, I usually had at least an interesting time. I think I really looked at dating as a chance to meet new folks first and the chance to meet a partner 2nd. I think that probably accounts for my ability to get through something like 15 online dating setups really rather cheerfully. I was always really curious to see who was going to turn up next.

I never read "fun" to mean "sex" and I never had any problems with the first date "fun" guys - nor did I have any first date sex with them, either.

I think Ambrosia Voyeur's suggestion to date up from your age rather than down is a good one. One thing about being in your mid-30s is that a lot of your contemporaries still have zero experience of close loss. That immediately make you being a widow something that is both a curiosity and something they can't relate to. Age being what it is, the older we get the more we share that experience and the less alien it will be to someone with a few more miles on the clock.

Also, if online dating isn't working out for you, then I would suggest a traditional, not-video dating service. This is now terribly old fashioned, I know; it was when I was doing it 5 or 6 years ago, too. But the dating agency lady took account of all my circumstances and made very personalised, excellent matches for me. Every guy except the BMW dealership owner was great, and hey out of him I got a funny story. It was well worth the money to me.

Finally - honey, it is 2008. Do not sit around and wonder why you never hear from the guy again. If you had a good time, then call or email him the next day and ask if he'd like to do it again. The worst he can say is no, and who cares about that when you never have to see him again anyway.

My mefimail is open if you need an ear.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:29 PM on February 7, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

37 year-old single guy here who does online dating...it surprises me that so many guys have an issue with dating a widow. I would definitely rather date someone who checks the "widow" box than, say, the "separated" box, or even the "divorced" box. Being a widow, unlike those other circumstances, doesn't mean that your marriage was a failure. It just means your husband died.

But then, "have you ever been married" is not a question that would come out of my mouth on the first date. And if I found out I was on a date with a widow, "how did your husband die" is not something I would ask. I'm sure there must be plenty of guys with a similar attitude wherever you are.
posted by bingo at 10:34 PM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Being shocked and asking more about it is what is socially required in situations where someone has revealed the death of a loved one. That it is unfortunately the wrong response when someone on a date is explaining why they are single, is not going to change the response - if someone (the guy) doesn't act that way in those situations, a lot of people will think something is wrong with him, so when it comes to that situation on a date, he's between a rock and hard place.

I'd suggest that most of the men aren't put off by you being a widow, but the big shock/sympathy social dance that they (have to) go through regarding the topic may be falsely giving the impression otherwise. It is unusual and surprising to find out someone so young is a widow, but I think the awkwardness and thus tension surrounds just the immediate conversational situation (unsure what is an appropriate response, unsure how Big A Deal the response will be to you, unsure if they're walking on eggshells, etc.) and not about you being a widow.

Do you have a pre-planned way to, when the required shock/sympathy is expressed, rapidly diffuse the tension and smoothly change the subject? Once he knows that you're a widow, and the instant awkward social situation that results from learning that, has been and gone, it should be much smoother sailing. If the awkwardness lingers instead, then it's going to torpedo the date.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:00 PM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

or I enjoy the date and wonder why I never hear from the guy again.

Him calling you back is a better indicator that he also had a good time, than him agreeing to see you again after you call him back, but if he doesn't call, then you calling him back gives better odds than wondering why he didn't call.

Don't guess, ask. Maybe he just didn't feel any chemistry, or you're not his type. Maybe he'll lie to be "diplomatic" about it, but you're still better off. (And who knows, maybe he thought you didn't seem interested in him). If you like a guy, act on that.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:10 PM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Darlingbri, having experienced tragedy in your life doesn't make you a tragic person. I imagine anonymous to be able to love, be curious about new experiences and be happy like anybody else. So in my mind she isn't very different at all.

You're welcome to have a different opinion.
posted by jouke at 11:19 PM on February 7, 2008

I've been on the male side of this, and from my own POV I'd say moxiedoll, obliquicity, nicwolff, & -harlequin- are pretty close to the mark. The only thing I'd add, apart from the general background / learning more / social requirement thing, is that being a widow at a young age is unusual enough to pique interest. Most single women I've met around that age have been divorced, "not enough time for a relationship" (with the accompanying desperate and scary subtext of "until I realised the ol' biological clock was ticking away..."), childishly naive or, to put it bluntly, just plain crazy.

(Not picking on women there particularly either - I see all that and more in myself and single male friends.)

The first few dates are always horribly nervous times for me, particularly blind-ish dates - you know almost nothing about the person, and you're both fishing for something other than the usual stereotypical junk to talk about. The one time a few years ago a date mentioned she was a widow, it was more the surprise and curiosity of that fact that led me to latch onto that as a conversational subject.

(Then afterwards, of course, I spent the evening and next few days kicking myself for stupidly harping on the subject. God I hate dating ... ;-)
posted by Pinback at 11:27 PM on February 7, 2008

You honestly might not connect with someone until you meet a man in a similar situation. After my uncle lost my aunt to a sudden onset of menengitis 25 years ago at the age of 30, he had no interest in anyone ... until he met a woman in her 30s in a similar spot who had lost her husband to cancer a year prior. My uncle (and now, obviously, aunt) are wonderful people and really, really good together. Occasionally they'll talk about their previous spouse. But neither one seems to get jealous, because they just simply understand that they each had had something really special that just slipped away through no fault of their own.

I'm not saying ply up the support groups in search of a mate, but it might take finding someone in a similar spot to truely connect.
posted by Happydaz at 11:51 PM on February 7, 2008

Are men interested in attractive women in their mid thirties who happen to be widows?

Yes. Most people understand that people in their 30's come with some level of emotional baggage. Of all the guys you never got a second date with, "is a widow" is going to be the specific reason in only a small number of cases.

Do most people enjoy going on first dates?

I do. Even when they turn out to be mediocre, an evening at the coffee shop is never bad. Nervous excitement is fun, and infatuation is awesome when it happens.
posted by MillMan at 11:54 PM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

You could try pre-empting them? "Yes, but my husband died 7 years ago, of ____." Short sentence about how you felt then and how you're feeling now. Short sentence, with a smile, about how guys always seem to get hung up about it. [Here the guy's on the spot for a minute, mumbles something.] "What about you, have you ever been in a serious relationship?"

I hate first dates.
posted by trig at 11:59 PM on February 7, 2008

My opinion: Widower or not, dating in your 30's is hard no matter how you cut it. Atleast thats my experience (unless i'm doing something drastically wrong). I'm about to turn 35. Got a decent job, a little bit of debt, but I'm paying it off. Work keeps me busy but I try to keep some semblance of a social life. I frequent Craigslist as well as a variety of other online dating sites as well as an IRC-ish chatroom I hangout in pretty much everyday (meaning, I know those people well)

Having said all that (as a person in his 30's)... I still find dating pretty cumbersome. I've reached a point where I pretty much know who I am (and that I'm comfortable with it) and I know what I want. But it seems like an endless search to find someone even remotely compatible. There are a lot of nice people out there with nice qualities, but finding someone with the combination of qualities I'm looking for .... well, I havent given up but I'm not holding out much hope.
posted by jmnugent at 2:00 AM on February 8, 2008

Getting sex but not conversation. I'd guess many men would prefer it that way, but there may be an issue.
posted by A189Nut at 2:50 AM on February 8, 2008

Being shocked and asking more about it is what is socially required in situations where someone has revealed the death of a loved one.

I strongly disagree. I've always found that a slightly surprised, sincere, "Oh, I'm so sorry!" is the way to go. Asking any more is prying, IMO, if not outright ghoulish. It's understandable to be curious, but in this case one just has to hold one's tongue.

The cause of death might be something the survivor doesn't want to talk about, or perhaps feels guilt or shame about (eg, suicide, drug overdose, drunk driving, etc). It's not a need-to-know thing. "I'm so sorry," followed by a sympathetic pause, allows the survivor to either continue the conversational thread (if they want to discuss it) or end it quickly.
posted by ROTFL at 3:53 AM on February 8, 2008

I am not anywhere near in your circumstances. But, because I live in the NY area I happen to know four 9/11 widows all of whom were in their young 30's when their husbands were killed. Three of the four are remarried, and the fourth is in a committed relationship but will not get married. Two of the three marrieds married widows. Two of them met online. Having spoken to all four about the issue of meeting someone after your husband is suddenly killed all of them said that they felt it was an important part of who they were and they were upfront about it when meeting new people. They did not just blurt it out, but they figured out a way to bring it up in conversation within the first two dates. Generally, they felt the best response they got from telling their date was when he said something like, "That must be terrible. Please tell me about it when you think it is appropriate."

One of the four had a chance to speak with her husband when he was trapped in the North Tower. He made it very clear to her how much he loved her, but that he expected her to get on with her life, to meet someone and not avoid relationships. I think that helped her tremendously in that she was able to tell herself that meeting a new man was not in any way tarnishing what she had with her first husband.



I do not know if any of this helps, but maybe it will.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 4:09 AM on February 8, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

i think you could safely say, "i was married for a little while after college. after that, i moved to chicago..."

a lot of single people in their thirties used to be married. generally they ended in divorce, but whatever. that's a detail you can save for another night.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:41 AM on February 8, 2008

Do most people enjoy going on first dates?

For me, going on the dates was fun, but all the stuff that goes into finding the dates in the first place, negotiating if there will be a second date, etc, was not fun at all. Coffee, drinks, or dinner with an attractive and funny person is always a great experience (at worst, you have a funny story to tell your friends later); it's all the baggage and details that can be difficult.

Are men interested in attractive women in their mid thirties who happen to be widows? What and when is the best way to reveal this information?

I think that on the whole people (men and women both) are interested in attractive people who have nice qualities and aren't weird and scary in the wrong sorts of ways. My sense is that when people hear the word "widow," they think of a woman wearing a black dress, maybe even a black dress from the 19th century, holding herself emotionally aloof and with all kinds of unresolved grief. Not a fair stereotype at all, but that's the "widow" one sees in the movies all the time. It's a term that has a huge amount of cultural baggage, so I'm not surprised that a lot of guys (particularly younger guys) aren't being totally smooth in how they handle it. You've had seven years of experience in talking about this; the guy in question may never have had this conversation before in his entire life and is making it up as he goes.

I don't know that I would immediately ask "how did he die?", but I would certainly try to find a way (on the first or second date) to assess "are you still hung up on him?" Because if you aren't emotionally available, and you aren't ready to meet me where you are, then I should thank you for the evening and move on. (This is the same thing I would want to assess if someone said they were divorced -- there is all the difference in the world between someone who has had a divorce but is now a happy and self-actualized person, and someone who needs to vent about that asshole ex-husband of hers.) So are you maybe, perhaps unconsciously, giving off the vibes of "I'm not really ready for a relationship"?

That preemptive checking off of boxes (for height, weight, likes walks on beaches and candlelit dinners) is a lot of the reason that online dating wasn't for me. I felt uncomfortable trying to fit myself into those categories, and disliked it when I looked at someone's profile and saw that she had in one way or another excluded me for what felt like the most trivial of reasons. My experience has been that in real life, we are all much more accepting of nuance and imperfection than we are when we fill out an online dating form; others have had the opposite experience so I don't think that there is one definitive answer here.

Like everything, if what you are doing isn't working for you, the only solution is to change what you are doing. If you are having fun dating in the way you are doing (lots of first dates, enough casual sex, etc) then keep on with it. If you want something else, then experiment with making changes. And definitely think through the question of what vibes you are giving off -- if one or two people react a certain way, it is probably about them. But if tens or hundreds are reacting a certain way, it is more likely something you are controlling.
posted by Forktine at 6:12 AM on February 8, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I have a close friend who is a widow in her mid-thirties. Yeah, it weirds people out. They don't mean to be weirded out, but it is a bit offputting at first. My friend handles it by saying that her husband had cancer, and he died, and then she quickly follows up with assurance that she's okay, it's okay, and basically tries to get across that she's at peace with this and that it's not A Big Weird Issue.

For an online profile, I'd advise not identifing as a widow. The point of those boxes is to categorize people in some broad demographic groups, and being such a young widow rather skews yours. Men are leaving the widow box unchecked because they assume its irrelevant to dating someone under 40.
posted by desuetude at 6:42 AM on February 8, 2008

I like Desuetude's answer.

I think one of the rules of dating is that the longer a relevant bit of information remains unsaid, the weirder it gets. I think we humans are just wired that way.

Just generally, as a 30-something, finding out that one of your peers is widowed is an unusual situation. We don't know how to act, we don't know what to say.

So probably the best advice is to be real about it. Say what you are feeling at that moment about your husband, and also about the guy you're with. If you are feeling a good vibe, I don't think it's wrong to say so. "Yeah, I was married, and he'll always be a part of who I am, but let's not let that get in the way. I am ready to meet someone new." Or whatever your feelings are.

I also think that if you're out with someone you know you'll never see again, it's OK to lie.
posted by gjc at 7:25 AM on February 8, 2008

I am also a widow (32 when my husband died, 34 now). I am actually getting married in a couple of weeks to a widower that I met through a young widow message board. Neither of us was "looking" but we became friends and then more. When the subject of my late husband comes up with someone who doesn't know the story, I give a short version and then it's on to other subjects. I'm sure people are uncomfortable about it, but I've gotten beyond the point where I care what they think. It's part of my history and if they don't like it, too bad. Feel free to Mefi Message me if you like. :)
posted by moosedogtoo at 7:26 AM on February 8, 2008

Remember that you're in control of the situation, and you have the complete right to reveal this intensely private part of your life in whatever manner you want.

That said, you can't expect anyone who hears that your husband died young not to express their concern. As someone said above, if you tell someone your husband died, they are going to say things like: "Oh my god, I'm so sorry, what happened?" This isn't a "guy" thing or a "dating" thing -- it's a human thing.

If the topic comes up and you do not want the conversation to go in that direction, that's totally fine -- but you need to be proactive. Have a very brief thing to say: "I was married, but my husband died of ___ a long time ago. I'd rather not get into that now." Then quickly move on to another topic. Easy. If any guy is put off by this, that's his problem.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:40 AM on February 8, 2008

What people are saying about dating mature people is really really true. I am not a widow, but I became caretaker of my mother in my early 30s. And the fact is, many of my friends and the men my age simply did NOT relate to what I went through. They weren't very understanding at all. It really made it harder. So I was in a relationship with a much older man for a good portion of that time because frankly, it was easier on me. Taking care of my mom really messed up a lot of my relationships, the fact that I was going through this grown up thing that nobody else my age was experiencing. It was very alienating and lonely. I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone about anything I'd gone through or I'd kill their buzz and they'd run away from me.

The thing is, my friends couldn't relate because they had no point of reference for it. And now that I'm a bit older and their parents are just starting to get a bit older, sometimes they will talk to me and say things like, "Oh you wouldn't believe what I'm going through with my parents. I don't know how to deal with it." and I'll say "Actually, I understand more than you think." They're starting to go through what I was going through a decade ago... and one friend even has admitted that she remembers not relating to my problems and thinking I had too much drama going on. I didn't fit in with my peers anymore... like when I apologized to someone and said I couldn't go to her birthday party because I had to drive to San Diego to take my mom for a spinal tap, I remember she just said, "Uhhh... well, have fun in San Diego I guess." She didn't know what to say, and I can guarantee you nobody in that group invited me to another party after that. I could tell that sometimes people just wanted to avoid me because they didn't know what to say... because of my experiences I had become a downer. I have actually had a few people apologize now that they have empathy. It's too late for it to have helped our friendship much, unfortunately... I wrote them off as people I could count on a long time ago.

As I said, it's a different situation but it's similar. A lot of people under 40, when faced with the topic of death will go "Eww. I'm out to have a good time. I don't want to think about that stuff!" But it's a part of your life and you can't pretend it isn't. So try dating older people who are more mature and can see that you're just dealing with a normal part of life and trying to move on. Unfortunately, many younger people without any frame of reference aren't going to be able to do that. They're too myopic right now. That's the best and the worst thing about being young, really.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:27 AM on February 8, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I dated a young widow for a while (I was 40, she 36) and her widow status never contributed to the attraction equation. I did know she was a widow before we met, tho. (It was a fix-up.) There were some unique challenges to dating a widow--if you want more details, feel free to email or meta-mail me.

And good luck!
posted by sexymofo at 9:09 AM on February 8, 2008

Mid 30's guy here (though I'm married, so not in the dating scene anymore thank god) but I'm with Nicwollf above, there you are making "getting to know you" small talk and it comes up. "Oh, my husband died." What is the poor guy to say? "Well it's a good thing or else he'd be pretty pissed that I'm here on a date with you!" Really, in any conversation where a loved one's death comes up, it's really natural to ask the circumstances. It makes a person seem caring. Remember too that he's guaging your reactions. If you break down then, well, maybe you just aren't ready to move on. If you blow it off completely, same deal, or maybe you aren't connected to your own feelings (yeah, I know, it's 7 years, I get you). So maybe the reaction from you shouldn't be to avoid the subject completely but to be honest. Just say, "well, it was a tragic event, but I'd rather not talk about it tonight, let's save that for a conversation down the road some time."
posted by Pollomacho at 9:16 AM on February 8, 2008

I know a woman of similar age who is widowed, and we dated before she met her husband. Distance was a killer at the time, but I knew (and said) that if a chance arose later when it wasn't such an issue, I'd be interested again. I was totally wrong about this -- she's been widowed for years now, and there's still no way I'd even consider it.

This is not because she's damaged or any less appealing, but because in death her husband's ghost has been raised to sanctified levels that I can never live up to. She carries him everywhere with her... can't even speak more than three sentences without bringing him up. Strangely, I don't want to be third-best in a two-person relationship.

And this is what scares the men you're dating -- men are competitive enough with each other as it is, but how do you compete with a ghost? When people die, most of us tend to think more positively of them than we did when they were alive... so it's easy for men to assume there is no room in your life for them until/unless convinced otherwise.

How to convince them of this... hard to say. But you'll probably have to.
posted by Pufferish at 9:20 AM on February 8, 2008

I don't think you should do the "I was married, I'm not now" thing. It's not quite a lie, but it's closer to a lie than to the truth, particularly in the context of trying to get to know you.

Acknowledge, move on.

People ask those questions because it helps to make a model of the person we are interacting with. If you give them misleading information, they'll be, well, mislead and their model of you will be wrong. In the long run, even if you can navigate around that, when they find out they'll have to rebuild that model, and instead of just including "widow" "uncomfortable moment" they have to include "widow" "mislead me on major point" "evasive" "what else has been too much trouble to be honest about?". You aren't doing yourself, or them, any favors there.
posted by dirtdirt at 9:28 AM on February 8, 2008

Wow, miss lynnster, it must've been really hard to be dealing with all that and losing friends at the same time.

Anon, I was wondering whether another approach to try might be to make others' weird reactions a more explicit part of the conversation and deal with it more directly. I've had friends tell me things in something like the following way:

"Have you been married before?"
"Well..." [gentle smile, look at him inquisitively as if trying to decide if he can handle what you're going to say] "It's not really a topic that goes well on dates, I think some people feel weird about this," [tiny pause, smile again] "I was married once, and then he died. It was a good relationship, but it was a really long time ago, and I'm in a different place now, and I'm dating because I'm ready to meet someone new. Some people respond as though no time had passed. Don't get me wrong, I'll always remember him, and I was really sad -- but this was seven years ago. I wouldn't be out on dates if I wasn't ready to have fun and meet someone new!"

I'm not sure about my wording, but I think you could communicate these things:
- Prepare yourself, I'm going to tell you something
- Other people's reactions haven't worked so well, so be cautious here, watch me for cues. (He'll want to prove he's more tuned in than those other guys.)
- The news is ___
- Wrong reaction: "oh my god, are you okay"
- Right reaction: "ah, that was in the past, you are ready to have fun now"

He may still have questions, but you can answer them and then return to that talking point (long time ago, ready to have fun, we're on a date, let's have fun).

I was trying to think about why someone would back off upon learning you are a widow. Here's what I came up with:
- thinking that secretly you're still deeply in grief
- the thing Miss Lynnster was talking about, "this date was a bummer"
- imagining him as some perfect dude whose memory I'd never live up to in the eyes of you or your family ("I wasn't a soccer star, okay!"), wondering if I'd just be an inadequate replacement and not your first real love
- not wanting to be some jerk that stole a poor dead guy's wife away
Obviously, it's not your job to allay all their fears, but if you know where they might be coming from, it could potentially help.
posted by salvia at 9:34 AM on February 8, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

I entered the dating pool in my mid-30's due to divorce. It took me a little while to figure out the rules and how it was supposed to work -- dating became more fun the more I did it, then I hit a point where the first dates started to seem the same and the process became less fun. Luckily, shortly thereafter I met a woman and fell deeply for her (and am now married to). I never dated a widow, but I would not have had any problem dating one.

I found speed dating worked better for me than online sites. To me it was easier to figure out how dating worked in these 4-6 minute "practice dates". I could then apply what I learned to any real dates that happened.

I think Salvia's answer has it spot on. Sometimes I did ask my date if she had been married or in a long term relationship. This was to get some sense of the life history of the person. Hearing the person was widowed would have thrown several "switches" in my head: the typical response when someone I'm talking to mentions a death, the empathic "Sorry for your loss" switch; the head slapping "You shouldn't have asked that question" switch; and the "Ok...how do I change subjects gracefully?" switch. All of which would throw off whatever paltry amount of mojo I had on a date. If someone said Salvia's response to me, I would be totally able to deal with that because it gives me something to work with to know that its not a problem that it came up and that you're on the date because you want to meet people and have "dating fun" (whatever that means). That would reset my switches.

Oddly enough, the first time I kissed the woman that I later married was after all my switches got thrown. I had been working up my courage to try and kiss her and right before going in for the kiss I asked her if she had ever had any pets, thinking it would be kind of innocuous. She then told me a sad story about her dog that had died the previous year. All the switches I mentioned above got thrown and I was overloaded and forgot to turn off the "Kiss her" switch. So I leaned in and we had this really long, nice kiss. Not how I had envisioned it would happen, but once all those switches were thrown, I kind of froze up and didn't know what to do.

Not comparing her loss and yours, just pointing out that these switches are internal things and are more about me and my attempt to interact than a judgment about anything the other person said/did.
posted by cptspalding at 11:24 AM on February 8, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I would have absolutely no problem at all.

I bet most people in their thirties don't think about being widowed (unless they go through it or have a friend who does) so they probably don't check that box when searching online.
posted by Silvertree at 4:56 PM on February 8, 2008