I need creative solutions to the "Moral Time Traveler" sci-fi thought experiment.
February 6, 2008 10:59 PM Subscribe
I need creative solutions to the "Moral Time Traveler" sci-fi thought experiment.
Lets assume a modern fellow manages to travel back in time to 18th century America. He arrives trained to pass as a foreigner and can stay only for a year. He lives in a town as an eccentric traveling businessman from Europe. He has no access to technology or anything modern. When his year is up he will be forced into the future.
After observing society he decides its immoral to leave without telling these people some basic fundamentals of science like Pi to many places, what radiation is, the toxicity of lead, or germ theory.
He also decides it would be immoral to tell anyone this information is from the future and he must tell them thinking they discovered this themselves in some fashion. He also thinks impersonating their gods or superstitious beings is immoral. No burning bush or counterfeit newly discovered ancient book.
Lastly, he cant just create an genius persona as the time travel authority would know he revealed these things.
How can he communicate all or any of this information? Is this possible given the constraints?
I've come up with the following arguable solutions but am looking for more. The more creative the better.
1. He finds someone who is interested in these things and befriends him. He decides to whisper these things to him in his sleep hoping they sink into his subconscious and then come to him while awake.
2. He finds a selfish person and offers him all this information in return for keeping his identity and the world of the future secret. This person publishes the science, but the time traveler has no guarantee this person will keep the secret so he murders him shortly after publication.
Any ideas?
Lets assume a modern fellow manages to travel back in time to 18th century America. He arrives trained to pass as a foreigner and can stay only for a year. He lives in a town as an eccentric traveling businessman from Europe. He has no access to technology or anything modern. When his year is up he will be forced into the future.
After observing society he decides its immoral to leave without telling these people some basic fundamentals of science like Pi to many places, what radiation is, the toxicity of lead, or germ theory.
He also decides it would be immoral to tell anyone this information is from the future and he must tell them thinking they discovered this themselves in some fashion. He also thinks impersonating their gods or superstitious beings is immoral. No burning bush or counterfeit newly discovered ancient book.
Lastly, he cant just create an genius persona as the time travel authority would know he revealed these things.
How can he communicate all or any of this information? Is this possible given the constraints?
I've come up with the following arguable solutions but am looking for more. The more creative the better.
1. He finds someone who is interested in these things and befriends him. He decides to whisper these things to him in his sleep hoping they sink into his subconscious and then come to him while awake.
2. He finds a selfish person and offers him all this information in return for keeping his identity and the world of the future secret. This person publishes the science, but the time traveler has no guarantee this person will keep the secret so he murders him shortly after publication.
Any ideas?
This post was deleted for the following reason: hypoethtical "here are my random constraints" filter - this might be better of at BBQ or with a "what is the problem to be solved" addendum. -- jessamyn
He poses as a postgrad student working under a professor with a reputation for taking credit for the work of his underlings. Then he does some experiments which demonstrate these interesting things, does some more experiments to confirm the discoveries, writes it all up in various papers, which also touch on the social ramifications of the find, and lets the professor publish them in his own name, and the profession will naturally follow up on his own on some of the more promising discoveries, never knowing that time travel was involved.
Disadvantage: Doing all this in a year is really pushing it.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:16 PM on February 6, 2008
Disadvantage: Doing all this in a year is really pushing it.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:16 PM on February 6, 2008
The moral time traveler murders someone? Rethink that one for sure.
The ideas could be written in a notebook, along with other known ideas of the time, and mailed anonymously to a university with a cover letter saying the book was found "in my uncle's belongings after he passed away." And the sender thought it might be of interest to them, since the uncle often mentioned his esteem for the university, but could never afford to attend. He doesn't want his identity known because his uncle was a humble man who would never want credit for anything that might help others.
posted by The Deej at 11:27 PM on February 6, 2008
The ideas could be written in a notebook, along with other known ideas of the time, and mailed anonymously to a university with a cover letter saying the book was found "in my uncle's belongings after he passed away." And the sender thought it might be of interest to them, since the uncle often mentioned his esteem for the university, but could never afford to attend. He doesn't want his identity known because his uncle was a humble man who would never want credit for anything that might help others.
posted by The Deej at 11:27 PM on February 6, 2008
I suspect if the time traveller was in a position to cultivate the right high-calibre associates, he could just pepper ideas into conversations, and those people would go off, with the ideas germinating, think about those things, and make the necessary discoveries themselves within a few years, or a few decades.
You don't need to explain germs to someone, just give them two and two (neither of which are anochronistic) and let them put them together themselves to make four. It doesn't take much to set the right people thinking along the right path, and as far as anyone, including the discoverer knows, you never knew about four, you just happened to say something which got the someone thinking. That you are a time traveller also helps to know who to get thinking.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:30 PM on February 6, 2008
You don't need to explain germs to someone, just give them two and two (neither of which are anochronistic) and let them put them together themselves to make four. It doesn't take much to set the right people thinking along the right path, and as far as anyone, including the discoverer knows, you never knew about four, you just happened to say something which got the someone thinking. That you are a time traveller also helps to know who to get thinking.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:30 PM on February 6, 2008
What about taking the opposite approach? Privately he funds secret societies that proliferate the modern knowledge in underground meetings or in popular literature. Then, as a wealthy business man, he wages a highly publicized campaign against the "lies" thus only drawing more attention to them. Eventually the message he is actually attempting to spread gets more diffused and the truth takes on a momentum of its own.
posted by quadog at 11:31 PM on February 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by quadog at 11:31 PM on February 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
No burning bush or counterfeit newly discovered ancient book.
What, not even if it's hammered into plates of solid gold and you lose them immediately after the revelation?
An individual who thinks it's immoral to deceive anyone but is willing to knock off his selfish accomplish probably has some stuff he needs to rethink.
posted by XMLicious at 11:36 PM on February 6, 2008
What, not even if it's hammered into plates of solid gold and you lose them immediately after the revelation?
An individual who thinks it's immoral to deceive anyone but is willing to knock off his selfish accomplish probably has some stuff he needs to rethink.
- If he's posing as a foreigner he could present these things as foreign inventions, common where he comes from, and no one would probably ever track down his deception. They weren't so big on proper attribution and citation of original work back then.
- He could pose as a visitor from a fictional place, such as a long-lost colony of Atlantis, and present the technology.
- He could find an inventor to work as a partner with and contrive for the partner to "accidentally" discover things, the way penicillin was discovered. That could provide for some comedy as an extremely thick partner refuses to catch on to the idea and the protagonist has to go to ever more outrageous and improbable lengths
- If he were to arrive in 1790, after Ben Franklin's death he could fake letters or notebooks containing the technology and arrange for it to be "discovered". Or choose some other suitable historical figure. And for hilarity it could be someone he just thinks is dead.
posted by XMLicious at 11:36 PM on February 6, 2008
It's not clear that imparting future knowledge to the past is necessarily the moral thing to do. In doing so, your traveler changes the future, but for better or worse? Knowledge about radiation and germ theory could give rise to a more rapid proliferation of nuclear and biological weapons. That could wreak havoc with the balance of global power depending on who gets ahold of what and when.
posted by juv3nal at 11:54 PM on February 6, 2008
posted by juv3nal at 11:54 PM on February 6, 2008
When writing fiction, the solution to a seemingly difficult problem is often simpler than you think. Your audience is usually willing to suspend disbelief - you don't have to make it totally watertight. Like, at the end of Back to the Future II, how did Doc's package remain for so many years with the courier express company?
Many of the solutions you outlined in your explanation are pretty complicated, and would influence the theme, structure and even plot of your book or story (which might be a good thing).
If you want to keep it simple, why not have your time traveler stay with a wealthy patron (these folks bankrolled Leonardo and Michaelangelo, after all) who, by the 18th Century, would have probably belonged to some sort of scientific society anyway, like most of the early industrialists.
Perhaps your traveler falls in love with the patron's daughter, and the challenge for her is to get the world to take her knowledge of futuristic concepts seriously. No one does, at first, because she's a woman.
But he's just talking to her, so he doesn't have to worry about being exposed.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:00 AM on February 7, 2008
Many of the solutions you outlined in your explanation are pretty complicated, and would influence the theme, structure and even plot of your book or story (which might be a good thing).
If you want to keep it simple, why not have your time traveler stay with a wealthy patron (these folks bankrolled Leonardo and Michaelangelo, after all) who, by the 18th Century, would have probably belonged to some sort of scientific society anyway, like most of the early industrialists.
Perhaps your traveler falls in love with the patron's daughter, and the challenge for her is to get the world to take her knowledge of futuristic concepts seriously. No one does, at first, because she's a woman.
But he's just talking to her, so he doesn't have to worry about being exposed.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:00 AM on February 7, 2008
Wasn't germ theory hotly opposed when it was first proposed? I think it took a long time to catch on. The real problem isn't who to tell, its how to make them listen!
posted by TigerCrane at 12:19 AM on February 7, 2008
posted by TigerCrane at 12:19 AM on February 7, 2008
Like, at the end of Back to the Future II, how did Doc's package remain for so many years with the courier express company?
Okay, sorry to be picky, but the courier company in question is The Western Union Company, the largest and most far-flung international telegraph and courier service in the entire world during the 19th and 20th centuries, so much so that they only stopped offering telegraph services in 2006. Lawyers used them to execute wills for rich people and deliver legal documents internationally, as did said lawyer's descendants unto the fifth generation.
Some people appreciate attention to details and my guess would be that the audience for a time travel / alternative history novel might include a few of them.
posted by XMLicious at 12:35 AM on February 7, 2008
Okay, sorry to be picky, but the courier company in question is The Western Union Company, the largest and most far-flung international telegraph and courier service in the entire world during the 19th and 20th centuries, so much so that they only stopped offering telegraph services in 2006. Lawyers used them to execute wills for rich people and deliver legal documents internationally, as did said lawyer's descendants unto the fifth generation.
Some people appreciate attention to details and my guess would be that the audience for a time travel / alternative history novel might include a few of them.
posted by XMLicious at 12:35 AM on February 7, 2008
I wouldn't worry about this. He clearly succeeded, or he wouldn't have known about all that stuff anyway.
posted by flabdablet at 12:45 AM on February 7, 2008
posted by flabdablet at 12:45 AM on February 7, 2008
I wouldn't worry about this. He clearly succeeded, or he wouldn't have known about all that stuff anyway.
Yeah, it probably worked because of the metachlorians in his blood stream. Don't worry, it's almost impossible to do science fiction or time travel poorly.
Sorry, I had to say something about metachlorians. And so few time travel stories come out very well at all. Excelsior, Ken-Lay-ghost-dude.
posted by XMLicious at 1:12 AM on February 7, 2008
Yeah, it probably worked because of the metachlorians in his blood stream. Don't worry, it's almost impossible to do science fiction or time travel poorly.
Sorry, I had to say something about metachlorians. And so few time travel stories come out very well at all. Excelsior, Ken-Lay-ghost-dude.
posted by XMLicious at 1:12 AM on February 7, 2008
If he were to arrive in 1790, after Ben Franklin's death he could fake letters or notebooks containing the technology and arrange for it to be "discovered". Or choose some other suitable historical figure. And for hilarity it could be someone he just thinks is dead.
It's interesting that you set this question in the 18th century. Of all centuries, this is the one where flat-out saying unsupported things, impersonating others, falsifying experiments and so on would not only not come off as strange or immoral, but would more or less be taken in stride.
For instance, one time Jon Swift played an April Fools' Day joke on the astrologer John Partridge. He wrote an almanac under the pseudonym of Isaac Bickerstaff entitled "Predictions for the Year 1709," where he said Partridge would die on March 29 of that year of a raging fever. Sure enough, March 30 an anonymous letter appeared which confirmed Partridge's death. Unfortunately, Partridge wasn't actually dead, and published an indignant rebuttal. "Bickerstaff" wrote a facetious rebuttal claiming that clearly, he was dead--his wife said he had neither life nor soul in him! (It is said that Partridge spent the rest of his life being woken up by mourners)
So it would be easy, and quite in character, for you to impersonate Benjamin Franklin after his death (no one in 18th century America would doubt that he could calculate pi, invent penicillin, and discover radiation), publish your "findings" in a few fragmentary pamphlets, and then rest easy.
posted by nasreddin at 1:55 AM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's interesting that you set this question in the 18th century. Of all centuries, this is the one where flat-out saying unsupported things, impersonating others, falsifying experiments and so on would not only not come off as strange or immoral, but would more or less be taken in stride.
For instance, one time Jon Swift played an April Fools' Day joke on the astrologer John Partridge. He wrote an almanac under the pseudonym of Isaac Bickerstaff entitled "Predictions for the Year 1709," where he said Partridge would die on March 29 of that year of a raging fever. Sure enough, March 30 an anonymous letter appeared which confirmed Partridge's death. Unfortunately, Partridge wasn't actually dead, and published an indignant rebuttal. "Bickerstaff" wrote a facetious rebuttal claiming that clearly, he was dead--his wife said he had neither life nor soul in him! (It is said that Partridge spent the rest of his life being woken up by mourners)
So it would be easy, and quite in character, for you to impersonate Benjamin Franklin after his death (no one in 18th century America would doubt that he could calculate pi, invent penicillin, and discover radiation), publish your "findings" in a few fragmentary pamphlets, and then rest easy.
posted by nasreddin at 1:55 AM on February 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
it's almost impossible to do science fiction or time travel poorly
I think I'd have to take a completely contrary stance, and say that it's almost impossible to 'do' science fiction, especially when it concerns time travel, well.
That doesn't stop me loving the 1% that works, though.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 2:52 AM on February 7, 2008
I think I'd have to take a completely contrary stance, and say that it's almost impossible to 'do' science fiction, especially when it concerns time travel, well.
That doesn't stop me loving the 1% that works, though.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 2:52 AM on February 7, 2008
Lastly, he cant just create an genius persona as the time travel authority would know he revealed these things.
Won't they be keeping tabs on time-travellers anyway? Earlier understanding of radiation/ germs and similar breakthroughs would be the first thing they'd be looking for.
posted by ersatz at 2:59 AM on February 7, 2008
Won't they be keeping tabs on time-travellers anyway? Earlier understanding of radiation/ germs and similar breakthroughs would be the first thing they'd be looking for.
posted by ersatz at 2:59 AM on February 7, 2008
I think I'd have to take a completely contrary stance, and say that it's almost impossible to 'do' science fiction, especially when it concerns time travel, well.
No, I'm completely in agreement with you, I was being sarcastic in response to flabdablet's suggestion to not worry. See my footnote “...so few time travel stories come out very well at all.”
posted by XMLicious at 3:12 AM on February 7, 2008
No, I'm completely in agreement with you, I was being sarcastic in response to flabdablet's suggestion to not worry. See my footnote “...so few time travel stories come out very well at all.”
posted by XMLicious at 3:12 AM on February 7, 2008
He clearly succeeded, or he wouldn't have known about all that stuff anyway.
No, someone else succeeded, that's how he already knows about the stuff like germs and radiation and the like. What OP is proposing is that our time traveler TT goes back and changes who those "somebody's" are.
I think the biggest unforeseen consequences of this behavior is that you'll never get back to your own time as you knew it. It will fundamentally change. I don't just mean your living room will have yellow wallpaper instead of red. I mean, entire generations of your friend's family's might never be born if you succeeds. It can be pretty lonely.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:56 AM on February 7, 2008
No, someone else succeeded, that's how he already knows about the stuff like germs and radiation and the like. What OP is proposing is that our time traveler TT goes back and changes who those "somebody's" are.
I think the biggest unforeseen consequences of this behavior is that you'll never get back to your own time as you knew it. It will fundamentally change. I don't just mean your living room will have yellow wallpaper instead of red. I mean, entire generations of your friend's family's might never be born if you succeeds. It can be pretty lonely.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:56 AM on February 7, 2008
Well, if he was truly moral and truly committed to helping the people of the 18th century, he'd damn all the Time Police consequences and give the past the information flat out. He wouldn't have to say "It Comes From The Future!" so much as a series of pamphlets detailing the information, then followed by a series of experiments that the reader can easily perform in order to come to the same conclusion. Sort of like handing out a bunch of college Biology, Physics, Chemistry, and Astronomy 101 books to middle schoolers - not everyone will get it, but those that do will be able to teach others.
If he wanted to be sneaky, then the secret society is the way to go. Call it the Temporally Illuminated Mysteries of Enlightenment or something have the same experiments go out to the Elect for discovery. A big thing the Traveler can do here is get a bunch of smart, educated people talking to each other so that they can build off each others' theories.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:27 AM on February 7, 2008
If he wanted to be sneaky, then the secret society is the way to go. Call it the Temporally Illuminated Mysteries of Enlightenment or something have the same experiments go out to the Elect for discovery. A big thing the Traveler can do here is get a bunch of smart, educated people talking to each other so that they can build off each others' theories.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:27 AM on February 7, 2008
It could take some work, but you could invent some demonstration of the principles he wants to convey. Benjamin Franklin's kite experiment was what convinced people - not his words about electricity. If you take time to integrate it into the story you could make the townspeople believe they are the heroes/inventors. First, you arrange an apple hitting Isaac Newton moment for the likeable but silly mayor. Then you push him to make a public campaign. The little town begins to thrive on its reputation for ingenious thinking.
I'm thinking of your protagonist as a puppeteer, never taking the credit.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:30 AM on February 7, 2008
I'm thinking of your protagonist as a puppeteer, never taking the credit.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:30 AM on February 7, 2008
How about having him author a series of "scientific fiction" books that explore the general concepts, and spark interest in their study, much in the way that Jules Verne did for submarines or arthur c. clarke did for communications satellites?
posted by Oktober at 5:39 AM on February 7, 2008
posted by Oktober at 5:39 AM on February 7, 2008
from wikipedia:
Jules Verne's novels have been noted for being startlingly accurate anticipations of modern times. Paris in the 20th Century is an often cited example of this as it describes air conditioning, automobiles, the internet, television, and other modern conveniences very similar to their real world counterparts. Another good example is From the Earth to the Moon, which is uncannily similar to the real Apollo Program, as three astronauts are launched from the Florida peninsula and recovered through a splash landing. His other notable predictions were of helicopters, submarines, projectors, jukeboxes, etc.
posted by Oktober at 5:42 AM on February 7, 2008
Jules Verne's novels have been noted for being startlingly accurate anticipations of modern times. Paris in the 20th Century is an often cited example of this as it describes air conditioning, automobiles, the internet, television, and other modern conveniences very similar to their real world counterparts. Another good example is From the Earth to the Moon, which is uncannily similar to the real Apollo Program, as three astronauts are launched from the Florida peninsula and recovered through a splash landing. His other notable predictions were of helicopters, submarines, projectors, jukeboxes, etc.
posted by Oktober at 5:42 AM on February 7, 2008
Your question asks to assume that the moral imperative here is to tell the past people about future advances. I'm not convinced that this would be the right thing to do. But let's assume it is. If it were me, and if I decided to try to finesse the future, I would probably seek out an educated and prominent person in whom I could confide. Someone like Ben Franklin, mentioned above -- educated, scientifically aware, able to question me closely. If I could convince Ben, I'd be home free. Almost.
This also assumes that I know pi to many places, have sufficient technical knowledge to able to say why lead is toxic, why tere are planets beyond Uranus, etc etc. You get the idea. It's not enough to tell people shit like this -- people today are convinced that NASA is going to blow up Saturn next year and so on. Just saying something outlandish is true doesn't make it true. You need to present compelling evidence, which the Saturn-detonation nutbars can't. Otherwise Franklin or whoever is going to lump you in with the tinfoil hat crowd.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 6:10 AM on February 7, 2008
This also assumes that I know pi to many places, have sufficient technical knowledge to able to say why lead is toxic, why tere are planets beyond Uranus, etc etc. You get the idea. It's not enough to tell people shit like this -- people today are convinced that NASA is going to blow up Saturn next year and so on. Just saying something outlandish is true doesn't make it true. You need to present compelling evidence, which the Saturn-detonation nutbars can't. Otherwise Franklin or whoever is going to lump you in with the tinfoil hat crowd.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 6:10 AM on February 7, 2008
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posted by crapmatic at 11:15 PM on February 6, 2008