How can I ban someone from an event?

February 3, 2008 2:58 PM

What is the most graceful and legal way to exclude a scary person from an event?

I want to organize an event but refuse entry to a person who has problems that make him aggressive.

The person has a long history of shoving, cursing, creeping out women, etc. I've known him for 10 years and haven't seen a clear improvement in his behavior, so I doubt that he could keep his behavior under control at my event.

One approach would be to let him come and then evict him if he misbehaves, but he's well known here and his mere presence would keep others from coming. An event that doesn't exclude him has suffered a drop in attendance. Based on feedback from others in the community, I've decided that the most effective approach for my event is a quiet ban.

I want to make the event "private" so if the problem person comes, I can say, "I'm uncomfortable around you and this is my event, so you have to leave."

1. If I rent a privately-owned hall in my name, is that enough to make the event "private" and give me the right to determine who enters and who doesn't?

2. What if I rent a private hall but do standard publicity (fliers, newspaper calendar listing)? Is it still a "private" event in the sense that I can exclude somebody who has seen a flier and shows up expecting to be admitted?

My instinct is to limit the publicity to word of mouth and "invitations" sent to my MySpace friends and an email list.

I'll be charging admission, if that makes a difference.

I know you're not my lawyer, but I'd like to hear your ideas. Is there some other approach that would be simpler? This is really bugging me. I want to respect the rights of someone who is clearly struggling, but I also want to be able to look forward to the event.

posted by PatoPata to human relations (38 comments total)

unless it's invitation-only, you can't exclude him.

if you want/need it to be open to the public, your best option is to hire some security and have them keep an eye on him. spread the word that there will be security to deal with him if he does misbehave.
posted by thinkingwoman at 3:08 PM on February 3, 2008

Can you just tell him that he's not welcome prior to because many others have said they don't want him there?

If you feel the need to appease him somehow, go out for a beer with him the day before.
posted by Pants! at 3:08 PM on February 3, 2008

Is it necessary that you attend this event yourself? Why not take him out somewhere and have the event happen without you both?
posted by popcassady at 3:14 PM on February 3, 2008

Your last line reminds of the saying, "My rights end where yours begin". If he is chronically and routinely aggressive and scary, which of his rights are you trying to respectful of? His right to be aggressive ends when it starts to affect other people, and by the looks of it, it has indeed affected other people.

I can't speak to the legal aspect of it, but I would imagine that you have recourse when it comes to excluding someone from an event. I mean, if bouncers at clubs can keep people out for random reasons, then you must have some recourse. Hopefully someone with more legal knowledge can address that. My first thought is to simply let the person taking the money at the door know to keep him out, but I don't know if you have people available to do actual security should he get out of control.

Do you feel at all comfortable leveling with him about this directly?
posted by DrGirlfriend at 3:16 PM on February 3, 2008

Can you schedule it on a night when you know that he is busy?
posted by thebrokenmuse at 3:18 PM on February 3, 2008

unless it's invitation-only, you can't exclude him.

Of course you can. Why would you think that you couldn't?
posted by grouse at 3:25 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

unless it's invitation-only, you can't exclude him.

Of course you can. Why would you think that you couldn't?

IANAL, but clubs and bars which are "open to the public" routinely exclude patrons for any reason or no reason at all. In fact, it's often blatantly based on race or sex.

Hire one or more large bouncers. Give them a picture of the guy and tell them he's not to be let in for any reason.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:30 PM on February 3, 2008

unless it's invitation-only, you can't exclude him.

Why not? I'm pretty sure that you're legally entitled to exclude him, assuming this is the U.S. Unless you're not discriminating against someone for being a member of a protected class, you can keep someone out of your event for whatever reason you want. Right? That's why it's ok for clubs to have velvet ropes and whatnot.

Is there going to be security at this event? It seems to me that there probably should be, for safety and liability reasons. And in that case, I'd just call him up, calmly explain that he's not welcome at the event because of his past behavior, and then give whoever is doing security a heads up and a picture of him. If he shows up, calmly have him kicked out.
posted by craichead at 3:33 PM on February 3, 2008

(a lot of clubs do try to minimize confrontation by making a night "guest list only." basically the bouncer holds a clipboard and pretends to look at it while deciding who to let in based on the normal criteria)
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:35 PM on February 3, 2008

Oy vey. Unless you are discriminating against someone for being a member of a protected class.

Perhaps I should be excluded from events for being incoherent....
posted by craichead at 3:36 PM on February 3, 2008

assuming this is the U.S. Unless you're not discriminating against someone for being a member of a protected class,

Tangent, but I don't no how much recourse there is in this case, even for protected classes. I know courts have ruled in favor of allowing lower drink prices for one sex on "ladie's nights."

And I've certainly been told directly that i wasn't allowed in because there were "too many guys in my party." So has any other guy in L.A. who isn't a movie star or absurdly wealthy. So I'd be curious to hear a lawyer weigh in on this.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:44 PM on February 3, 2008

In regards to the "protected class" concerns: This is the US, and I would bet that he has a diagnosis of some sort. Theoretically, I could be seen as discriminating against the mentally ill, though I highly doubt he would make that argument. Also, since I'll allow entry to other people who I know are "mentally ill," it would be hard for someone to argue that I was discriminating against all people in that class.
posted by PatoPata at 4:10 PM on February 3, 2008

I know clubs here routinely blacklist people who are known troublemakers based on past history. If they can I don't see why a private function can't.
posted by Kellydamnit at 4:16 PM on February 3, 2008

I think we need to know where you are located, so as to determine which body of law applies.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 4:18 PM on February 3, 2008

OP here again. I don't feel comfortable bringing this up with him before the event. If he were to ask me about the event, I would probably try to make it sound like something he wouldn't like. If he continued to sound interested, I would (with trepidation) say my little rehearsed piece about how I'm uncomfortable around him so I'm not inviting him.

I don't want to say "None of us wants you there," which is unfortunately rather accurate, because I'm putting on the event myself and I feel like I shouldn't speak for anyone else.

All of this is probably moot, because I avoid him and rarely have a conversation with him.
posted by PatoPata at 4:19 PM on February 3, 2008

I think we need to know where you are located, so as to determine which body of law applies.

In the US. I'm in a red state with few anti-discrimination laws.
posted by PatoPata at 4:20 PM on February 3, 2008

I actually studied anti-discrimination law back in the day, although that was in an Australian context. The way it works here is that it's generally illegal for a business or government agency to discrimate against people on grounds of a defined list, like race, religion, marital status, disability, sexual orientation or 'membership of a particular social group'. There are exceptions if it's reasonably necessary for the purposes at hand, eg to ensure that there are no blind taxi drivers or men working in topless bars. I'd assume that the US law is similarly structured.

In practice, what people said above about nightclubs applies. You might, in fact, be turned away from a club because you're black or gay or not gay or not a woman, but the bouncer will simply come up with some other excuse - usually, not complying with the (unstated) dress code.

(hey, it happened to me the other week, when I was turned away from a mostly-dyke queer club, on the grounds that I was wearing workboots - which half the girls inside were also wearing - although the real reason was that they're trying to prevent too many guys from showing up, even with their lesbian housemates *shakes fist*)

If it's a private event, you're pretty much free to do whatever you want. If some redneck doesn't want to let blacks into his house, for example, that's his call.

Either way, though, you're not excluding this guy because he's black or gay or disabled or a scientologist or whatever, but because he's a violent asshole, which sounds perfectly legal anywhere.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:21 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Can you be proactive and buy him and his girlfriend/boyfriend/buddy a meal during the time of your event? If it's long, buy them a movie and dinner.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:28 PM on February 3, 2008

As anyone who has stood in a club line watching pretty people get admitted in before them can tell you, you can exclude people for all sort of reasons and get away with it.
posted by Foam Pants at 4:39 PM on February 3, 2008

I think you're overthinking the legality aspect, unless this person is incredibly litigious. Based on the fact that I would have no desire to have any sort of friendship with such a person (though your mileage may vary), I would just tell him bluntly that he's not welcome for the reasons stated above and you're not willing to have your event become the test bed for his attempts at bettering his behavior. In response to your desire to not speak for everyone: It is your event. You are leading it in some capacity, giving you the right to make the final decision even if everyone doesn't agree with it, which it sounds like they do anyway.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 4:55 PM on February 3, 2008

I think you're overthinking the legality aspect, unless this person is incredibly litigious.

I should have mentioned that the person in question is a lawyer. I'm not aware of him being particularly litigious, but if he were feeling litigious, it would be bad news.

I'm liking the "guest list" idea, even if it means just looking at a printout of the people I emailed and pretending to see the person listed there (or not!).
posted by PatoPata at 5:03 PM on February 3, 2008

You can exclude him.
posted by jayder at 5:07 PM on February 3, 2008

My instinct is to limit the publicity to word of mouth and "invitations" sent to my MySpace friends and an email list.

I think that this is reasonable.

Likewise, if he shows, tell him that it's a private function and that he's not invited, sorry. You are going to have to be prepared to summon the nerve to do this, though.

By way of reference, it's commonplace to exclude known troublemakers from bars. Granted, they are usually told that they're banned, but since it's usually based on drunken behavior, they don't necessarily remember. If they show, they get a tap on the shoulder and a "hey, buddy, you're not welcome here. Find someplace else to be."
posted by desuetude at 5:11 PM on February 3, 2008

Anti-discrimination laws prevent business owners from discriminating based on race, etc. They don't stop people holding private events from excluding creepy people. If you don't want to confront him, issue private invitations only. If you don't mind confronting him, you can advertise publicly then refuse to sell him a ticket if he tries to buy one, though from the sounds of it that's the worse option.
posted by Dasein at 5:14 PM on February 3, 2008

I should have mentioned that the person in question is a lawyer.

I can't speak to the legal issues, but I can say that it's a very bad idea to piss off a crazy, aggressive lawyer. In that case I suggest your safest course of action is to have him ejected if he misbehaves and make sure to document the misbehavior.
posted by Justinian at 5:36 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I can't speak to the legal issues, but I can say that it's a very bad idea to piss off a crazy, aggressive lawyer.

Oh, this is the biggest load of bullshit I've seen all day. Piss off crazy lawyers all you want. You shouldn't worry about pissing off a crazy lawyer any more than you should worry about pissing off a crazy non-lawyer.

Don't be so spooked by lawyers, people!

My take on how you should exclude him: Don't invite him. Go ahead and do your publicity. If he shows up, say, "Sorry, we're not going to be able to admit you. Goodnight." That's all you have to do.
posted by jayder at 5:59 PM on February 3, 2008 [6 favorites has favorites]

It sounds like your problem is as much with willpower as it is legality. If you can't stand up to him yourself, hire someone who can. Keeping him out becomes their problem, giving you the freedom to enjoy the event you're hosting.
posted by scalefree at 6:30 PM on February 3, 2008

Christ almighty. IANAL, but a lot of the fretting over the legality of all this seems overblown. Just tell your gatekeeper not to let him in. He wants to call the police and make a big stink? Fine, let him. I seriously doubt the cops are going to force you do anything right then and there.

He's a lawyer? So what? What, exactly, is he going to sue you for? What harm has he experienced by being denied entry to your party?
posted by mkultra at 7:55 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Also please see this question.
posted by fish tick at 8:15 PM on February 3, 2008

OP here. Concerning the legality stuff: This event is similar some other events in town. Those events are open to the public and everyone is admitted. My event would on the surface appear to be similar to those events. So I'll be saying, essentially, "Surprise! You can go to the other events, but not this one!"

However, I agree that I'm within my rights to welcome or exclude anyone who comes to an event that I organize myself in a privately owned hall. The other events are held by non-profit groups in city-owned buildings, so the expectation (and maybe the rule) for those is that anyone can go.

One reason several others in the community and I want to do this event is that the main similar event imposes no limits on behavior. I think this is partly because it's run by a loose organization, so no one feels responsible. People are also afraid to challenge the behavior or have compatible dysfunctions of their own. I want to create a space in which the problematic behavior is clearly unacceptable and make that clear by excluding the main perpetrator from the start.

At this point, I think that clearly calling it a party and issuing "invitations" will make everyone adjust their expectations and avoid confusion.
posted by PatoPata at 8:43 PM on February 3, 2008

Oh, and the troublemaker gets a "Sorry, you weren't invited" at the door. I think I feel my spine growing. It's about time.
posted by PatoPata at 8:51 PM on February 3, 2008

I'm not aware of him being particularly litigious, but if he were feeling litigious, it would be bad news.

Any asshole can file a lawsuit alleging any damn thing whatsoever. I could head down to my local court and file a lawsuit against, I don't know, the Knights of Columbus or something and claim that they were beaming thoughts into my head with microwaves or something like that.

I've known him for 10 years and haven't seen a clear improvement in his behavior, so I doubt that he could keep his behavior under control at my event.

And that would be the first sentence of your or your attorney's response to whatever lawsuit this twit might decide to waste the court's time with. And the judge, not being entirely devoid of common sense, and perhaps having experienced this attorney's charming personality firsthand, would dismiss the case.

As long as you avoid making references to any personality disorder, and focus on his pattern of aggressive behavior, you're on solid ground.
posted by jason's_planet at 8:53 PM on February 3, 2008

With apologies for being blunt, this is just silly. It's your party/event/whatever. It's not a public accommodation (as far as I can tell). Do you really think an aggressive, unpleasant, unwelcome person has any right to demand entry so that he can eat your food, enjoy your entertainment, intimidate your friends? This is not my legal opinion, just common sense.

To take it a step further, who cares why you don't want him there? For practical purposes, all that matters is that you don't. If he insists on coming, you call the police, they say "who's party is this?", you say "it's mine," they make him leave. If he responds that he's deranged (or has a "personality disorder"), do you really think that will persuade the police to force you to admit him?

I see this a lot from non-lawyers -- this odd belief that somehow there is this arsenal of magic incantations and secret loopholes that give lawyers tremendous power over the uninitiated. To echo jason's_planet, any idiot can file a frivolous lawsuit and make your life unpleasant. It just doesn't seem reasonable to structure your life around that remote risk.
posted by lionelhutz5 at 12:03 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

your safest course of action is to have him ejected if he misbehaves and make sure to document the misbehavior

Absolutely not. There is far more room for this guy to generate some sort of frivolous lawsuit out of being forcing ejected.

Keeping him from coming will avoid the most problems for you.
posted by grouse at 1:09 AM on February 4, 2008

Well Grouse, he's probably unlikely to generate a frivolous lawsuit, since he's a lawyer. I realize the prohibition on frivolous lawsuits doesn't keep all lawyers from engaging in this type of behavior, but it certainly makes it easier to defend against them when the complaint can be summed up as "They didn't invite me to their party! HULK MAD! HULK GREEN! MONEY GREEN! HULK WANT MONEY!"

Anyway, I think that you have your answer at this point, but I'd also suggest that - if possible - you provide your "bouncer" with a picture of this individual so that they can be aware that he may be aggressive and potentially unpleasant to deal with if he shows up. They will appreciate the warning.
posted by greekphilosophy at 7:12 AM on February 4, 2008

he's probably unlikely to generate a frivolous lawsuit, since he's a lawyer

Well, good. I'm saying that if you want to worry about him filing a frivolous lawsuit, you're still better barring him at the door than ejecting him.
posted by grouse at 7:20 AM on February 4, 2008

"Management reserves the right to eject patrons without refund. Management reserves the right to refuse entry to any patron."


(As a side note, Googling for "Management reserves the right to" turned up all sorts of madness! I'm sure that you can find something close to what you'd need, between all of the guidelines for dog shows and bingo halls.)
posted by lhall at 9:42 PM on February 4, 2008

Also, I'd do it quietly at the outside door, far away from the event if possible, in case there's a scene.
posted by lhall at 9:43 PM on February 4, 2008