Kitchen rennovation advice
January 28, 2008 1:10 AM Subscribe
Kitchen Rennovations - Commercial stainless steel benches versus second hand fitted kitchen - please advise.
Our kitchen is falling apart and in terrible shape. So we're planning on finding either a second hand fitted kitchen, or some second hand stainless steel commercial kitchen benches and some suitable shelving/drawers and doing as much of the work re-fitting it as possible ourselves. So I have some questions about this. The kitchen is really an overgrown galley kitchen in that there's no room for an eating area or island units.
Our kitchen is falling apart and in terrible shape. So we're planning on finding either a second hand fitted kitchen, or some second hand stainless steel commercial kitchen benches and some suitable shelving/drawers and doing as much of the work re-fitting it as possible ourselves. So I have some questions about this. The kitchen is really an overgrown galley kitchen in that there's no room for an eating area or island units.
- What's the disadvantage of commercial kitchen units - why don't people have them in houses?
- What's so good about fitted kitchens - they seem to be pretty labour intensive to keep clean to me - why don't houses have freestanding units in the kitchen?
- What would you suggest a minimum of shelf/cupboard space in a household where we don't want to accumulate too much crap (family of four).
- Assuming we don't go with commercial stainless steel benching, how hard is fitting a work top? I've successfully done other apparently hairy stuff with no experience before - tiling, (small) deck building and plastering, so I'm not afraid to learn.
- Will a semi-commercial kitchen fit-out have a negative impact on the resale value of our house?
I've done my kitchen (in a rented apartment in NYC) with restaurant-kitchen floor cabinets but with butcher's-block tops that I cut long to extend past the cabinets and reach the walls and appliances. I ripped the cut-offs to 3/4" thick and biscuited them on edge to the back of the countertops to form continuous backsplashes, and it all looks quite built-in and I like it a lot.
I replaced the old range with a $1200 Amana slide-in unit that has continuous cast-iron burners and looks almost like a commercial Viking or DCS that would cost three times that. The butcher's block fits right in next to it, and the backspash continues across behind it.
I mounted two open restaurant-kitchen shelves on one wall, and they're nice but whatever's on them picks up a lot of dust and grease and has to be washed every month or so. If I were starting over I'd have glass-doored wall cabinets, probably from Ikea.
posted by nicwolff at 1:45 AM on January 28, 2008
I replaced the old range with a $1200 Amana slide-in unit that has continuous cast-iron burners and looks almost like a commercial Viking or DCS that would cost three times that. The butcher's block fits right in next to it, and the backspash continues across behind it.
I mounted two open restaurant-kitchen shelves on one wall, and they're nice but whatever's on them picks up a lot of dust and grease and has to be washed every month or so. If I were starting over I'd have glass-doored wall cabinets, probably from Ikea.
posted by nicwolff at 1:45 AM on January 28, 2008
Not sure about the cabinets, but we have a commercial refrigerator and stove in my place. The refrigerator is louder than a retail one, but was much cheaper, is larger and keeps things just as cold if not colder. The stove can take a beating and does. Our island has a zinc top on it that looks commercial, has a changing color as things are dropped on it, but looks great. Go commercial.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:25 AM on January 28, 2008
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:25 AM on January 28, 2008
What's the disadvantage of commercial kitchen units - why don't people have them in houses?
They look "commercial" rather than "homey," which for most people is a deal-breaker. You do see commercial kitchen pieces being used sometimes in modernist architecture, but it might be an odd contrast in a different sort of place.
What's so good about fitted kitchens - they seem to be pretty labour intensive to keep clean to me - why don't houses have freestanding units in the kitchen?
By "fitted kitchen" you mean the standard kind you find in the US, with cupboards and counters built-in, and appliances integrated into the built-ins, rather than individual free-standing pieces (eg a sideboard, a stove, a mobile countertop) you see in pre-WW2 US houses and newer places elsewhere, right? If so, the fitted kitchen is actually really easy to keep clean, because dirt/grease/spilled food can't go underneath or behind the cabinetry, and the cabinet doors keep the airborne grease off of your dishes. And enclosed food storage is a mild rodent deterrent (they can still chew their way in from behind, but less easily than if the food is all stored on an open shelf at knee level.) Commercial kitchens are made to get cleaned from top to bottom, complete with floor drains, etc; most home kitchens are not, so even if you have commercial pieces it is still a non-commercial kitchen.
What would you suggest a minimum of shelf/cupboard space in a household where we don't want to accumulate too much crap (family of four).
Some people seem to accumulate a lot more than other people do. This also depends on how much you entertain, how good you are at getting rid of things that people will give you, etc. I've lived with only one cupboard before, and that gets tight even for just one person. It also depends on whether or not you have a separate pantry for storing food, etc.
Assuming we don't go with commercial stainless steel benching, how hard is fitting a work top? I've successfully done other apparently hairy stuff with no experience before - tiling, (small) deck building and plastering, so I'm not afraid to learn.
If you mean a standard laminate or butcherblock countertop, the answer is "easy." You will need a minimum of tools (but not that many, because you can often get the pieces pre-cut, including the sink cut-out sometimes), a willingness to measure very, very carefully, and lots of patience for working in tight spaces. Having a helper is key -- big sections of counter are heavy and awkward. I've never worked with tile, stone, or solid-surface countertops, so don't know how easy those are.
Will a semi-commercial kitchen fit-out have a negative impact on the resale value of our house?
Probably. Anything weird supposedly does. But if it saves you $10,000, and only costs you $5,000 on the resale, you've come out ahead, right? And unless you are reselling tomorrow, you should be refitting the kitchen with an eye for your needs, not for some imaginary buyer who might want something completely different. Kitchens tend to look very dated after not much time so just accept that whatever you do probably won't hold up well over the years.
posted by Forktine at 6:21 AM on January 28, 2008
They look "commercial" rather than "homey," which for most people is a deal-breaker. You do see commercial kitchen pieces being used sometimes in modernist architecture, but it might be an odd contrast in a different sort of place.
What's so good about fitted kitchens - they seem to be pretty labour intensive to keep clean to me - why don't houses have freestanding units in the kitchen?
By "fitted kitchen" you mean the standard kind you find in the US, with cupboards and counters built-in, and appliances integrated into the built-ins, rather than individual free-standing pieces (eg a sideboard, a stove, a mobile countertop) you see in pre-WW2 US houses and newer places elsewhere, right? If so, the fitted kitchen is actually really easy to keep clean, because dirt/grease/spilled food can't go underneath or behind the cabinetry, and the cabinet doors keep the airborne grease off of your dishes. And enclosed food storage is a mild rodent deterrent (they can still chew their way in from behind, but less easily than if the food is all stored on an open shelf at knee level.) Commercial kitchens are made to get cleaned from top to bottom, complete with floor drains, etc; most home kitchens are not, so even if you have commercial pieces it is still a non-commercial kitchen.
What would you suggest a minimum of shelf/cupboard space in a household where we don't want to accumulate too much crap (family of four).
Some people seem to accumulate a lot more than other people do. This also depends on how much you entertain, how good you are at getting rid of things that people will give you, etc. I've lived with only one cupboard before, and that gets tight even for just one person. It also depends on whether or not you have a separate pantry for storing food, etc.
Assuming we don't go with commercial stainless steel benching, how hard is fitting a work top? I've successfully done other apparently hairy stuff with no experience before - tiling, (small) deck building and plastering, so I'm not afraid to learn.
If you mean a standard laminate or butcherblock countertop, the answer is "easy." You will need a minimum of tools (but not that many, because you can often get the pieces pre-cut, including the sink cut-out sometimes), a willingness to measure very, very carefully, and lots of patience for working in tight spaces. Having a helper is key -- big sections of counter are heavy and awkward. I've never worked with tile, stone, or solid-surface countertops, so don't know how easy those are.
Will a semi-commercial kitchen fit-out have a negative impact on the resale value of our house?
Probably. Anything weird supposedly does. But if it saves you $10,000, and only costs you $5,000 on the resale, you've come out ahead, right? And unless you are reselling tomorrow, you should be refitting the kitchen with an eye for your needs, not for some imaginary buyer who might want something completely different. Kitchens tend to look very dated after not much time so just accept that whatever you do probably won't hold up well over the years.
posted by Forktine at 6:21 AM on January 28, 2008
I work for a huge fitted kitchen manufacturer, and we have a shop on-site that sells brand new units from discontinued ranges for a pretty massive discount.You could easily fit out a good-sized galley kitchen for <500 pounds, before labour. If you're anywhere near Leeds (the shop doesn't deliver) and you're interested, send me a mefi mail and I'll give you more info. I could even take some digital photos of what's currently available in the shop, if you like.
posted by cilantro at 8:16 AM on January 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by cilantro at 8:16 AM on January 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
I agree with your idea to use industrial kitchen design for all the reasons you have explained. That's exactly what and why I will do the next time I can remodel a kitchen. I want to keep all the cookware on rolling stainless steel racks with butcher block tops. A few wall shelves to hold ready-to-hand cooking ingredients like olive oil and salt. Food storage in a separate pantry/closet. All the serving dishes stored in the dining room. Paint the walls a warm vibrant color to take off the industrial edge. With so much interest in cooking these days, I don't think a real chef's kitchen will hurt the resale value at all.
posted by conrad53 at 7:44 PM on January 28, 2008
posted by conrad53 at 7:44 PM on January 28, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
1 They're cold-feeling. Also, commercial units don't have doors - all the equipment is in plain view. Commercial kitchens use everything all the time, so it doesn't get the chance to get dusty. But in a home, you're not going to use stuff so often, so it'll sit there gathering dust. We decided this would take more cleaning than a fitted kitchen.
2 Tidy, neat-looking, and less to clean, I think: cupboard doors don't need cleaned often unless you have food fights in there, or something. Everything's tucked away. In catalogue/magazine photos of 'open' kitchens, the owner always just has a minimum of cool-looking utensils, crockery and ingredients, and time to stack it all neatly and arrange the food packets. Real life? Tons of crap that you'd rather hide behind a door.
3 Unless you come equipped with an iron will, you'll accumulate crap. Sorry to sound defeatist! We're the same, and do our best to avoid collecting kitchen junk, but we still do, especially as kitchen-related presents from the grandparents, who think we need every gadget under the sun. At least one cupboard acts as a kind of quarantine area where stuff stays until we decide whether it just needs to go.
4 The hardest part is routing the corner joints to make invisible corners, if you don't want to use those corner joint plates, and routing the holes for the clamping bolts. The router template isn't cheap - you'd want to borrow one, and a router. Or even better, bribe an experienced router owner to do it for you.
5 I'd say yes. I've sold three homes with galley kitchens, and everyone wants one that looks 'homey', at least in the UK.
I understand the temptation - it's cheap, and easy to fit. But you end up with everything on view (especially stuff you might want to lock away from small, prying hands), every gap between units becomes a dust and crap trap, and I think you'll have a kitchen that lacks soul.
I'd go ex-display.
posted by dowcrag at 1:33 AM on January 28, 2008