Corcovado Breakdown

January 16, 2008 10:21 PM

What if Getz and Gilberto were, you know, cousins? Would they still have made beautiful music together?

So I want to learn to play Bossa Nova tunes, but I want to play them on the banjo. The banjo is my first stringed instrument ever, and I'm still pretty retarded at it, except for my right [pickin'] hand [which has always been my favourite].

I looked around, and I found some nice youtube videos of one girl who does banjo bossa nova, but it doesn't really solve some basic issues for me.

Issues like:

-Is this going to be ridiculously hard?
-What, precisely, gives songs that bossa nova sound?
-What tuning is most reasonable? [my 5 string banjo has never been tuned to anything but open G]
-How can I make the end product sound bluegrassy?
-Why aren't these bossa nova chords in my banjo chordbook?

I can hear in my head what I want to do, but I just don't know how to get there on the banjo.

Assume as much ignorance of theory as you can bear without giving up on me. I don't mind if I have to look up every single musical term in your answer if it will help me in the end.

posted by Acari to media & arts (11 comments total)

IANAM but I am completely enamored of Bossa Nova music. So I can only address your second question, that is, what makes bossa nova sound like bossa nova? To me, it is all about not only the mood it evokes but also how it appears to be performed. That is, it's completely relaxed. Almost to the point of being bored-sounding, carefree. Very easy, very loose. Always kind of strolling behind the beat, and not caring that it has a few steps to go to catch up to it.

No idea how you'd handle that on a banjo, but hats off to you for giving it a try, anyway.
posted by brain cloud at 10:31 PM on January 16, 2008

It all comes from samba and I've heard it said many a time that bossa nova is nothing more than samba played to a slower and more suave tempo. If you listen carefully to most bossa nova, you can definitely hear it. A lot of samba music is played on the cavaquinho, like a tiny 4-string guitar. A lot of bossa nova artists play the guitar, so it wouldn't be SUCH a giant leap, but I don't think it would sound very nice either. What defines bossa nova is its elegance and, though I can appreciate the banjo, I don't find it that much of an elegant instrument.
posted by Zé Pequeno at 11:39 PM on January 16, 2008

Very easy, very loose. Always kind of strolling behind the beat, and not caring that it has a few steps to go to catch up to it

I would add to that, langorous to the point of the singer sometimes singing a bit flat, intentionally. You might be able to convey that on the banjo.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 2:46 AM on January 17, 2008

Another aspect of bossa nova is actually the title of one of the best known bossa nova songs: Desafinado ("slightly out of tune" or "off key").

Chord progression is also a part of the bossa nova sound, usually a mix between minor and major chords:

"(...) most (traditional) [bossa nova] include at least one 'major' chord, usually the Major 7ths and 9ths. In simpler terminology, 'happy' chords as opposed to the 'sadder' chords (minor) but not always the case. The minor 7ths in bossa nova don't resonate a 'sad' or 'down' feel since a minor 7th is one of the steps in a key, and not the actual key (sorry, I'm trying to avoid being too theoretical explaining music). With that part aside, the percussion is almost euphoric, hence the amour. :)

Often, when the music shifts downward in bossa, they'll be a minor 7th chord, then maybe a 7th b5, dim7th, etc. (even a 13 b9 chord sounds beautiful played after a minor 6th chord) but comes back to a major (probably the 7th).

Anyway, that's just an example using a few tunes and doesn't necessarily speak for the whole genre but the gist is there, and that many many people (like myself) have an affection for the major 7th chord."

If you want to try non-bossa nova music in a bossa nova style, maybe this album could give you some ideas.
posted by iviken at 6:04 AM on January 17, 2008

I'll admit, I'm a tad disappointed, because everything before the "more inside" made me believe that this would be the most irreverent, amazing piece of chatfilter EVER.

That said, still an interesting question, and one I'll be glad to chime in on!

I'd be able to give you more specific advice if I had a slightly better picture of what you were shooting towards for a finished product, Acari. Are you hoping to play solo banjo and sing? Are you thinking of having a drummer? Other instruments?

I'll assume you're going to be attacking this solo, so if that's not the case, please let us know.

Assuming you're going to tackle this yourself, you could either:

1. Play banjo and sing. Probably the easier of the two. As others have mentioned, your singing should be very loose, both in terms of attitude and pitch. As you mentioned Señor Gilberto, I imagine this should be pretty self-explanatory, but to really get a feel for how calculated this approach is, compare his approach with Astrud's (hilariously/terribly referred to on Getz/Gilberto as "the wife of the great artist") She is, technically, a much more talented singer, but she too wavers by quarter/half pitches. In terms of your actual banjoing, arpeggiating the chord progression should do the trick. I think the mere tone of the banjo is enough to bluegrassify your sound.

2. If you're thinking of a no-singing solo approach, you're definitely in for a tougher time of it. Try listening to "Virtuoso" by Joe Pass for some inspiration. Solo string instrument presentations of jazz generally mean you'll be either keeping time/progression with your low strings and playing melody with your high strings, or embracing a more free-form interpretation of the song. Given that the "bossa" part of bossa nova is so important, the latter of these might not be as successful.

Good luck! Let me know if I can be of any further assistance, and PLEASE keep us up to date on this!
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:03 AM on January 17, 2008

You could certainly play the music. Will the banjo convey the same languid mood? It might. The banjo can be a more subtle instrument than people give it credit for.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:04 AM on January 17, 2008

Don't be confused by the quote in iviken's post as it doesn't really make sense. Bossa Nova, like many musical styles, is identifiable by its rhythms and harmonies. I found this relevant page which may be helpful.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:36 AM on January 17, 2008

[op here]
The plan is to do this solo, mainly because I don't have anyone to play with. Singing off key and playing lazily are already hallmarks of my lacklustre banjo style, so it's good to hear that they will finally be assets!
I wonder if anybody can help me with these chords, though. I thought I was doing alright when I could decipher things like "F#m7", but from what I've seen of bossa nova chords, there are things like "A7/6" or "Em7/-5" or "G13/-9".

What are these chords in words? What are they in notes? Is there a resource that explains this sort of slashy terminology?

oh, and since I forgot before, here is the evidence that this is possible.
posted by Acari at 10:42 AM on January 17, 2008

I wonder if anybody can help me with these chords, though. I thought I was doing alright when I could decipher things like "F#m7", but from what I've seen of bossa nova chords, there are things like "A7/6" or "Em7/-5" or "G13/-9".

All of those chord names are weird and non-standard. Typically chord names with a slash indicate a bass note other than the root. For instance, Gm/Bb means play a Gminor chord with Bb as the bass note. Sometimes the bass note is not actually part of the chord, like if you had F7/G, which would be an F7 chord with a G in the bass (although you could just write that as F9/G). The only other time I've seen slashes used is in a 6/9 chord, where you add a 6th and a 9th to a major triad. So A 6/9 is A major with an F# and a B added.

All that aside, I'd interpret A7/6 as an A7 chord with a sixth (F#) added, and I'd be inclined to write it as A13. I'd interpret Em7/-5 as Em7b5, also known as E half-diminished. Half-diminished chords have a diminished fifth and a minor seventh. So that's E G Bb D. I'd read G13/-9 as G13b9, or a G13 chord with a lowered ninth, which requires adjustment to play on four strings. A full 13th chord has a root, third, fifth, seventh, ninth, eleventh, and thirteenth. Usually the stuff between the seventh and the named note (13th in this case) is considered optional. The fifth is also unimportant, and the root can be dropped as well. So for that chord, I'd play the 3rd, the 7th, the 13th, and the b9th, or B F E Ab.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:53 AM on January 17, 2008

ludwig_van, the last thing I'd want to do is get you embroiled in another music debate in an AskMe today, but the notation you describe as "weird and non-standard" is pretty much THE standard for jazz lead sheets.

That said, your interpretations are totally correct. :)

Acari, a couple of other things occurred to me: Try having a listen to Charlie Byrd on Jazz Samba (IMHO, the only Bossa album better than G/G) granted, he's got a guitar, but he does a lot of what I think you're going to be trying to do.

Beyond that, the "canned" bass pattern for Bossa goes like this (each character represents a sixteenth note)

r= root
5 = fifth

r..55..r.r.55...

If you're having trouble picturing it, think of the opening of Steely Dan's "Rikki Don't Lose That Number." If you get this pattern down, it'll really help your playing "feel" like Bossa. (And once you have it down, definitely expand on it. I'll point to Jazz Samba again for inspiration here.)

And, seriously, do this and put it on MeFiMusic!!!
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:43 AM on January 17, 2008

Think of Bossa Nova as samba rhythm + jazz harmony. Of course it's not that simple, but let's stick to the basics.

First you have to become familliar with jazz chords or, to put it simpler, any chord made of 4 or more different tones (sorry if I repeat something you already know). And you have to figure out how to play it on a 5-string banjo.

I suggest you download a decent jazz-chords e-book (free, requires e-mail registration).

Then figure out 5-string banjo tunings and see what would suit you the best.

Keep us updated and don't hesitate to ask for more help.
posted by mi at 12:31 PM on January 17, 2008