How can an attached girl make friends with single guys? Or can she?

January 15, 2008 8:11 PM

Help a girl make guy friends with a minimum of misunderstandings. (Despite a history of misunderstandings.) I am female, in my late 20s. I am in a committed relationship that is about to temporarily become long-distance. I am about to enter an environment (MBA program) where male students outnumber females three to one.

So, I will need (and want) to make friends with my male classmates. However, I've noticed that when interacting with single straight guys, the moment I mention a boyfriend they either lose interest, or act insulted. The former is fine, I guess, if they're only interested in sex/romance we wouldn't work as friends anyway, but the latter is perilous. How can I keep interaction on a friendly level without dropping the "I'm off-limits, buddy" like an anvil, or leading a guy on?

This is starting to sound like one of those "I am so beautiful that men prostrate themselves at my feet wherever I go, what shoes should I wear to minimize tripping over them" questions. It's not - I am of average attractiveness, and have deficient social skills, which is why I call on MeFi for help. I suppose I could limit myself to socializing with women and couples, or in large groups only, but just as I studied for the GMAT I want to study this conundrum of human relations and overcome it.

Some background: I've been in the relationship since college, and did the long-distance thing in college too. I had single guy friends at the time, and all was well, but this was a close-knit social group so everyone knew of other people's relationships by osmosis. Also, everyone was a geek with limited social skills, which was a stable equilibrium. As a girl with geeky interests (sci-fi, video games), I've always had lots of male friends and was sort of surprised to realize that currently I only socialize with women, couples, and gay guys. Possibly due to the aforementioned losing interest/getting insulted effect.

So, why the weirdness and how can I avoid it? In the interest of full disclosure, I do tend to interact with new people in a sarcastic/teasing manner, which I suppose could be interpreted as flirting. I also have ADD, with the attendant ability to hyperfocus, and I tend to hyperfocus upon meeting someone interesting. Meaning that I pay attention to them and ask lots of questions, make a lot of eye contact, and generally am (or try to be) more funny and charming than usual. So that may be perceived as flirtation by guys as well. But I'd hate to just be cold or professional! Is there a middle ground?

How can I give the friendly-but-not-looking-for-more signal, when the proof (boyfriend) is thousands of miles away? How can I tell what kind of signal a conversation parter is giving? Especially if he's from one of the more open/flirtatious cultures of, say, southern Europe? I suspect that most females understand this instinctively, but I clearly have a deficiency.

I get along just fine with colleagues of both sexes, and can socialize at happy hours and work functions, so I am not worried about networking effectively. I just want to make some good friends in the pressure cooker that is b-school, and not cause any weirdness. Please help me, guys and especially other geeky girls. I am American but will be in an international environment so cross-cultural perspectives are also welcome. Be brutal if necessary.

posted by Mr Bunnsy to human relations (56 comments total)

So you want to mix socially, make friends, but keep romances off-limits. I think wearing a wedding band would accomplish this. A wedding ring is a symbol universally understood and respected by nearly everyone. (You'd have to stiff-arm only the guys who want to romance you despite it.)
posted by exphysicist345 at 8:26 PM on January 15, 2008

Why isn't the solution to just get into the habit of casually mentioning your boyfriend early on in conversation when you're meeting a guy?

Routinely interrupting a getting-to-know-you conversation with, "Before we go any further, I think you should know, I have a boyfriend," is not going to go over well. But no one could object to mentioning it in the flow of conversation. That might be a little awkward ("Oh, my boyfriend really likes watches!"), but he's a huge part of your life -- you're allowed to bring it up!

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see what the big deal is. If some guy is offended by your mentioning you have a boyfriend, then who needs him?
posted by jejune at 8:36 PM on January 15, 2008

However, I've noticed that when interacting with single straight guys, the moment I mention a boyfriend they either lose interest, or act insulted.

Where? This is going to be a different environment than you've known before- most everyone is going to be hyper-focused on school and work and whatever else they've got on their plate. This isn't like turning down Joe Schmoe in a bar. I think you'll have no problems making friends with guys in your class. You don't have to worry about the "signals" anyone but you is giving, because you're not gonna go there. You'll mention your boyfriend casually ("What did you do last night?" "Studied, talked to my boyfriend on the phone, watched American Idol..."), and that'll be that- it's not your job to worry about anyone else's feelings. Don't overthink this one.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:46 PM on January 15, 2008 [4 favorites]

Be yourself, flirty/hyperfocusing and all, but don't put any extra effort into being attractive when around these guys. Exercise the same amount of energy for your appearance and behavior as you would if you were going to see your brother or cousin. Wear pajamas or baggy sweatshirts during your study groups. Don't freshen up. Scrunchies and sneakers. Men notice when you're trying to look nice for them. And they notice when you're not. It'll send a message without you having to state your availability status directly.

And if you *really* need to pull out the stops and turn somebody off, just let one rip. Nothing says "I'm just not that into you" to a new potential than an accidental fart that you're not even embarrassed about.
posted by iamkimiam at 8:46 PM on January 15, 2008 [3 favorites]

I was going to say both of those things- fake wedding or engagement ring, AND mentioning the boyfriend. REALLY early. Like, first meeting, during your class introductions for example. "Hi, my name is Suzie, I live in Albequrque with my fiance (or whatever), but I'm here in Minneapolis to complete this program." I'm a buffoon, I'm sure there are more elegant ways of saying that, but get it unabashedly out there. The longer you wait, the more awkward it gets. And it's the fairest to your disappointed suitors as well. Better to suffer a moment of being too much information girl than see the disappointed look from the various hopefuls.
posted by gjc at 8:47 PM on January 15, 2008

Wear pajamas or baggy sweatshirts during your study groups. Don't freshen up. Scrunchies and sneakers. Men notice when you're trying to look nice for them.

Absolutely terrible advice.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:49 PM on January 15, 2008 [9 favorites]

I was going to say a wear a ring as well. You don't have to pretend to be married, or even engaged. But it will turn off those immediately seeking more than a platonic relationship and if anyone asks about it say "no, not married. This is the only finger it fits on."
posted by Ugh at 8:52 PM on January 15, 2008

I've been slowly coming to the realization that most guys, absent a relationship, think of any woman that they interact with or are friends with as a potential girlfriend.

All of my best friends are guys. I work much better with men (socializing, etc) than women and I work in a male-dominated field. I never date people I work with, and am in a LTR, but despite that being transparently obvious some of my guy friends have made half-hearted passes at me.

More of them, when the subject has come up, have admitted that they are/were attracted to me at some point. I've come to the conclusion that men are opportunistic sexually, for the most part, and eternally hopeful and optimistic. I mostly just try to ignore it and set very firm boundaries physically and in terms of topics I bring up or am open about. Sometimes with limited success, but that's a different story.

I don't really think it is a huge deal, and I don't think the friendship has the potential to be any less special, but it is just an aspect of the friendship you just need to accept- they see you as a sexual creature.
posted by arnicae at 8:54 PM on January 15, 2008 [3 favorites]

Ack, ThePinkSuperhero - I was just about to mark iamkimiam's contribution as best answer (minus the flatulence). Shows how deficient I am. I am hoping that it won't be an issue at all, and I'll just be treated as a potential friend rather than "ooh, a girl", but just in case. I AM pretty stupid. So keep 'em coming,
posted by Mr Bunnsy at 8:55 PM on January 15, 2008

I've noticed that when interacting with single straight guys, the moment I mention a boyfriend they either lose interest, or act insulted.

I'm kinda confused at this response honestly. I've never seemed to have this issue and I'm guessing that maybe your mentions have come off awkwardly. Honestly, I've never bothered to mention my dating status when meeting new potential guy friends unless they guy actually asks me on a date (at which point it's perfectly appropriate to say something along the lines of, "I'm sorry I'm already seeing someone, but I think you're really fun and I'd like to stay friends with you, do you want to go to that comic convention next weekend?")

I've always found it best to assume that someone isn't hitting on you until they're you know, actually hitting on you. In my mind, you're not leading someone on until they express interest in dating you and you respond with mixed signals.

If your boyfriend comes up in the course of a conversation, by all means talk about him! But otherwise, I say don't worry about whether you're leading someone on or sending the wrong signals and don't try to anvil the boyfriend mention into the conversation. Then again, I may be the wrong person to be responding since I have been on at least two accidental dates (ie. the guy clearly thought that asking me to get a burrito with him after a political organizing meeting = a date, when I figured yay! food!)
posted by nerdcore at 8:57 PM on January 15, 2008 [1 favorite]

Get a really hot friend, it'll distract attention from you and they will immediately want to befriend you to get closer to her.

I'm only half kidding.

And I have to disagree with ThePinkSuperhero, high stress environment, where you are spending tons of time together, with a lot of young single people, people are going to be hooking up right, left and center.

I think what you do, with the guys that just lose interest, is give them a few days after this happens and then the next time you see them try to reinitiate conversation, they aren't confused by your behavior at this point and know where you are coming from and then you are in a better position to become friends. It may take some time and multiple false starts, but eventually guys will realize that its just your personality and will be more likely to be interested in being friends.
posted by whoaali at 9:05 PM on January 15, 2008

My contrarian advice: Continue to act just as friendly and flirtatious as you naturally do, and you'll have loads of friends.

You have no obligation to disabuse men of their assumptions unless they ask you straight up or make their intentions clear. If you otherwise end up "stringing them along" inadvertently, it's their fault, not yours.

I'm only partly kidding, but seriously -- it's not like men have a constitutional right to have you as a girlfriend just because you don't wear a sign on your head...
posted by mikeand1 at 9:31 PM on January 15, 2008 [2 favorites]

How can I keep interaction on a friendly level without dropping the "I'm off-limits, buddy" like an anvil, or leading a guy on?

I honestly don't see the problem here. It's not an either/or of "I have a boyfriend" or "leading a guy on". Be professional. Talk about school (that's what you're there for, right?). Don't assume that because "I've noticed that when interacting with single straight guys, the moment I mention a boyfriend they either lose interest, or act insulted." it means that they're interested in you. Maybe they "lose interest/act insulted" because you've just assumed that they are romantically interested in you (and have insulted them). And they're not. Or maybe because you blurt this out when someone starts talking to you? Awkward.

Seconding ThePinkSuperhero's advice: seriously, you're going to rework your wardrobe and look like a slob just in case some guy gets the wrong idea?? Weird.

If someone hits on you (asks you out on a date, tries to kiss you), tell him you have a boyfriend. If not, don't say anything.
posted by sfkiddo at 9:31 PM on January 15, 2008 [1 favorite]

I've noticed that when interacting with single straight guys, the moment I mention a boyfriend they either lose interest, or act insulted.

You don't necessarily want these people as friends.

Heh, I'm still kinda shocked when someone tells me that she has a boyfriend and I keep talking shop and life with her and she seems shocked that I'm still doing so. I make friends with people I find interesting or whom finds things that I'm interested in, well, interesting.

man, that's an oddly worded sentence

I'm sure b-school is different than molecular bioscience graduate school, but there are jerks everywhere. Don't feel like you need to be friends with them; maybe now is the time to learn to be professional with people you might not like/agree-with but must still interact with.

Or you could be a bitch and play the "female" angle. It doesn't sound like you have the background, and (I would hope) that at the higher levels of business, everybody knows that trick and look down on it.

-----

re-reading your question;

Yeah, if there is some "nice" guy who seems a little too into you; tell them that you love them like a brother (after they do something "endearing").

Please.

There will be people who will misunderstand (incest? oooh, you're into kinky stuff!) but I think that in a lot of situations that it's "Freudian" enough to turn most people off and if they like you as a person, they'll continue to be friends.

Of course, there's the chance of a backfire - but then that's where you start calling law enforcement.
posted by porpoise at 9:36 PM on January 15, 2008

post-post;

yeah, sfkiddo hits up a major point.

Are you sure they're hitting on you?

Hmm, do you have this reaction only to guys you find attractive or to b-school guys in general who try to chat you up?
posted by porpoise at 9:39 PM on January 15, 2008

It seems like MBA programs are a microcosm of the larger corporate world, both involving a disproportionate ratio of men vs. women. Grad school is a good time to establish your boundaries and figure out how to be simultaneously professional and social.

The advice about wearing a faux wedding ring and dressing schlumpy is terrible. You aren't backpacking into Syria for 2 years. These guys are going to be your classmates, peers, colleagues and friends. You might want to network with these people after graduation. Do you want them to be all like, "yeah, Bunnsy is nice, but dresses like a hobo and wore a fake wedding ring all throughout grad school."

Just be yourself. Always be a lady. Don't misrepresent yourself. Actually, the guys who don't want to be friends because you are attached is helpful in a self-filtering way. You don't want to hang out with them anyway.
posted by pluckysparrow at 10:02 PM on January 15, 2008

A girl that's constantly talking about her boyfriend is annoying in her own way, so I wouldn't make up reasons to mention him.

Just bring it up when it seems natural to bring it up. If you're telling a story about something that your boyfriend did, that makes sense. You may even find yourself being asked if you have a boyfriend, and also, you should answer truthfully.

These people are going to have to be spending a lot of time with you, in class and whatnot. They, also having feelings, will make do. If they get sad/angry about your lack of availability, they will have to deal with those feelings as well as dealing with the social aspects of it.

If were a party or out at a bar, where people are more actively trying to pick you up and will probably never see you again, I would recommend dropping the b-bomb earlier than is natural. But class is not a bar.

I wouldn't take any drastic, behavior-altering measures like wearing a fake ring or dressing down. These things have a way of taking care of themselves.
posted by kpmcguire at 10:06 PM on January 15, 2008

Just be yourself and don't worry about it.

From my own MBA experience, the men in your program will not be looking to date you. They will be busy poaching hot undergrads. (No judgments - I poached a hot undergrad rugby player myself. Good times.) Women in the program itself are not a good risk for dating/hook ups.

Grad students get frisky. Smart grad students get frisky with people outside of their own program. That goes double for professors.
posted by 26.2 at 10:06 PM on January 15, 2008 [1 favorite]

What I've said in casual settings is: "I'm happy to talk to you, but I'm interested in someone else"...which at the moment is true, if it weren't I'd say that I'd just like to keep this platonic after getting "the look".
posted by brujita at 10:22 PM on January 15, 2008

Just be friends with them. You don't have to worry about mentioning the BF in there at all, if you didn't have one you would still be looking for friends. I have a lot of guy friends, in most cases this does not come up. I've had one "friend" awkwardly proposition me when we when on a trip, it wasn't a huge issue. I don't spend much time with that guy as a friend now, but that's because he was looking for something else than friendship.
posted by yohko at 10:36 PM on January 15, 2008

Gotta say sfkiddo's comment strikes a chord. I'm a guy with disproportionately female friends (partly from having been in a major disproportionately female).

From time to time when I'm being nice and friendly to a gal she'll "casually" work into a conversation she has a boyfriend, often times it is done so clumsily that it is clear the entire purpose of mentioning the boyfriend is to dissuade any romantic advances. Which would be fine if I was actually making romantic advances (or hell if I was even romantically interested in that person), but since that's not the case it certainly comes off as insulting.

If I'm just being a nice person and someone responds with a comment who's subtext is clearly "I know you want me, but you can forget it buddy" then I might just act insulted because either this implies to me that either A.) you are so vain as to assume it's only natural every man who talks to you must want you, B.) All men only want one thing to begin with, so any attempt to talk with you must mean he is in pursuit of you. Neither of which leaves me inclined to talk to you further.

Now I know nothing of your situation, and I have no idea if your mentioning your boyfriend comes about sounding organic or instead forced, so perhaps my little note would have no relevance to your issue. But it is something to think about as a possible cause of your problems. So yeah, it should come as no surprise that I consider a lot of the above advice urging you to work mentioning your boyf earlier and more clumisly into your first conversations unbelievably terrible advice.

I'm willing to guess in a mostly male field many of the guys chatting you up are testing the romantic waters, but be sure to wait until they are actually hitting on you before trying to deploy any countermeasures or you are insulting the guys that really are interesting in your friendship.
posted by Jezztek at 10:37 PM on January 15, 2008

No joke: wear a ring. Men will still be friendly, but no one will hit on you. (Wear it on your right hand; you're not married but you're "engaged".)
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 10:38 PM on January 15, 2008

A girl that's constantly talking about her boyfriend is annoying in her own way, so I wouldn't make up reasons to mention him.

This too. Having a significant other come up early and often in conversations is a flag that you might be one of those people that define their entire existence around their current romantic partner, which is a turn off regardless of gender as those people tend to be profoundly boring.
posted by Jezztek at 10:42 PM on January 15, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm married, have been for quite some time, and I can tell you that a wedding band does sfa to scare guys off. I've been propositioned more since donning the ring than previously.

I circulate in largely male-dominated environments; I am also reasonably socially inept. However, I mention my husband often in conversation, because he is such a huge part of my life. And when guys proposition me, I turn them down with a '[husband] doesn't share, sorry mate :)'.
posted by ysabet at 11:20 PM on January 15, 2008

Jezztek If I'm just being a nice person and someone responds with a comment who's subtext is clearly "I know you want me, but you can forget it buddy" then I might just act insulted because either this implies to me that either A.) you are so vain as to assume it's only natural every man who talks to you must want you, B.) All men only want one thing to begin with, so any attempt to talk with you must mean he is in pursuit of you. Neither of which leaves me inclined to talk to you further.

Don't take it personally, Jezztek; a lot of guys take an awful long time to get around to actually asking a woman out, and the lengthy conversation that precedes it is hard to distinguish from just being friendly. Also, your being not inclined to talk to her further makes it look exactly like "MY BOYFRIEND LIKES WEATHER" was appropriate and it worked.

For the OP, nthing the "just be yourself" advice, and seconding nerdcore. If he asks you out, just say "I have a boyfriend, but we can hang out as friends. How about lunch?" The prospect of you having a committed SO is something that any guy who asks you out has considered, and should have prepared himself for. Just refuse nicely, counter-offer if you actually want to be friends with the guy, and don't worry about how he ought to take it, because that is his business. Simply not making him feel like a worthless jerk is enough. :)
posted by aeschenkarnos at 11:45 PM on January 15, 2008 [1 favorite]

No joke: wear a ring. Men will still be friendly, but no one will hit on you. (Wear it on your right hand; you're not married but you're "engaged".)

News Flash: Steven C. Den Beste lives in 1952 Iowa, where not only does a ring on your right hand "mean something", but some super-race of men actually knows this and respects it.

As someone who's worn a wedding band on and off for many years (including on the magical "wedding finger") I can say with confidence that if anything, it increases the hitting-upon.

My best friend of 20+ years is exceptionally attractive, but it's never messed up our relationship. So it CAN be done. You just need to find friends who respect you, and the rest sorts itself out.

Misunderstandings tend to happen early, and I nth the above comments that mentioning your husband or BF always comes off sounding heavy-handed, and might even inspire certain men to try harder -- all that coyness women have been taught for years makes some men see that as just another challenge. The best approach I can think of is to just make it clear on the very first social event that "this is not a DATE or anything, okay? I already have a boyfriend etc... I just want to hang out."

After THAT social outing goes well, future mentions of bf will seem less loaded.
posted by rokusan at 11:46 PM on January 15, 2008

Much as I hate to be lumped in with SCBD, especially as there's a chance of catching pinkeye, I too will confess to respecting wedding rings, if only to the point of having to be outright propositioned by the wearer.

Early last year there was an Indian girl in my department who wore a ring on that finger who would often flirt with me a bit in the corridor, or visit me at my desk. I was quite happy to go along with this, as she was remarkably attractive, but she seemed to be either just being very friendly, or waiting for me to make a move, and I was kind of um-and-ah about it. I thought maybe her husband's back home in India and she's looking for a bit on the side while she's over here, or maybe I'm interpreting it wrong due to the cultural differences, or maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong because of wishful thinking. Anyways I um-and-ah-ed too long, for two or three weeks as it happened, and she--while still friendly--cut down on the flirting a lot. Not long later, she asked me to help her find some boxes, for moving house. I asked her about the move, what kind of house, and I asked "Do you live with your husband?"

"Husband? What?" Turns out she just wore the ring on that finger for the heck of it. The moment was gone, though, and I expect she, like myself, re-evaluated our entire interaction in light of my suddenly revealed misapprehension. We had lunch once, but the spark was gone.

Anyway, a ring there doesn't always mean married, or the lack of a ring mean uncommitted. One can make a mistake either way.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 12:07 AM on January 16, 2008

(Whoops, I mean SCDB. Sorry.)
posted by aeschenkarnos at 12:08 AM on January 16, 2008

I can only think of a couple of times in my life where a woman brought up her significant other in such a ham-fisted way that it was insulting. But it can be, especially when I had no intentions whatsoever towards that person (as if!) or had a girlfriend of my own. So I would make sure you aren't dropping it out of the normal course of conversation.
posted by grouse at 12:20 AM on January 16, 2008

I ride a horse and buggy and live with my parents, so you can discount this*. But I really do appreciate it when a woman mentions the phrase "my boyfriend" within the first 10 minutes or so of a conversation. It would make me a lot more likely to be her friend then hearing it 4 hours later. Why anyone would be insulted by someone doing this is beyond me. If she talked about him for all of those 10 minutes, yes, I'd be across the room pronto. But I like people who talk about themselves freely.

I really can't stand tight lipped people that take forever to open up in conversation. Seems like a normal thing to talk about.




*actually I don't.
posted by sully75 at 1:11 AM on January 16, 2008

It's perfectly normal to bring up one's significant other early on, and I'm not suggesting that one ought to hide it. But when it seems obvious it's being brought up, not to "talk about yourself freely," but mainly so I won't hit on you (when I am, in fact, not), it's both insulting and embarassing.
posted by grouse at 1:29 AM on January 16, 2008

First off, why be PC and not be yourself? This question is so inherently flawed in the first place, it's hard to answer. If you're hanging out with guys they WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU! This is the basic law that keeps the planet populated. Guys don't have "girl friends", they have girls that they hang out with, that they want to have sex with, but are too afraid to lose the time they are spending with a girl they are SEXUALLY attracted to if they are rejected. The whole reason guys hang out with girls is because they are hoping that some day it turns to their favor.

Open up, be yourself, if you're attracted then go for it, if you have a significant other and wish to remain true to him, then don't go for it. If you want to hang out with a guy or take the benefit he is offering you because he is offering it, then do it, but don't be surprised when he shows attraction for you. If you are afraid of these situations then don't put yourself in them.

A wedding band, or saying you have a boyfriend, will deter the friendly, hanger-clinger on types. The alpha male gung ho types will make their sexual attraction obvious from the get-go and thus you can easily filter them out if you so choose.

Don't be afraid to be a fun, interesting, ADD, outgoing girl, girls like you make the world a better place. If you have a significant other and wish to respect him then do just that. Make girlfriends, not guy friends, if you don't want to be in any situations that may need explaining later. Girlfriends will also come in handy at times when your willpower fails.
posted by thegmann at 1:40 AM on January 16, 2008

I'm not sure MBA students are as Facebook-obsessed as my fellow undergrads are at college. But if they are, setting your Facebook relationship status appropriately will solve this problem easily.
posted by Bizurke at 2:27 AM on January 16, 2008 [2 favorites]

thegmann Guys don't have "girl friends", they have girls that they hang out with, that they want to have sex with, but are too afraid to lose the time they are spending with a girl they are SEXUALLY attracted to if they are rejected. The whole reason guys hang out with girls is because they are hoping that some day it turns to their favor.

What a load of simplistic rubbish regurgitated from pickup manuals. Men are quite capable of relating to women on multiple levels: sexual attraction, friendship, intellectual stimulation, etc, and of having genuine friendships with women even though, shocking as the concept is, we might find them physically attractive. (Or unattractive, for that matter.)

Your advice is worthless and serves only to frame a series of little key phrases that you probably imagined were subtle: "take the benefit he is offering", "if you are afraid", "if you so choose", "don't be afraid", "wish to respect him", "when your willpower fails". If you must run that kind of crap game, that makes us all look like manipulative assholes, at least have the common sense to do so where there is some possibility of you "taking the benefit". That is, when you're actually talking to a woman in person. Not giving advice on a forum, and especially not when your 'advice' amounts to trying to talk her into the opposite view she wants to have and the opposite course of action she wants to take.

Now go and read "The Game" again, and pay attention to the last chapter this time.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 2:57 AM on January 16, 2008

Guys don't have "girl friends", they have girls that they hang out with, that they want to have sex with, but are too afraid to lose the time they are spending with a girl they are SEXUALLY attracted to if they are rejected. The whole reason guys hang out with girls is because they are hoping that some day it turns to their favor.

Hilariously, spectacularly wrong. People who think like this are missing out on so much of life it's not true. Please just keep being who you are, including flirtatious or flirtatious-seeming. (Flirtation is just a conversational mode that adds to the joy of life. We all know people who flirt with members of both sexes, right? It's just a way of relating.) Even if you were single, nobody has any right to assume that means you're interested in them, and you don't owe anything to people who get burned by making that assumption. (I honestly don't think a lot of guys are going to get seriously burned by it anyhow, to be honest.) Don't let your concern about this issue lead you to hold back, keep things superficial, and not experience the utter fantasticness and life-enrichingness of real platonic friendships with members of the other sex.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 2:59 AM on January 16, 2008

I'm N-thing the ring. Second thing I look for after the first "She's cute". (but I'm a nice southern boy and ring == "Off Limits", or at least Off Limits after a single inquiry).

And a slight bit of "if she cheats on him with you, she'll cheat on you with somebody else"...
posted by zengargoyle at 3:34 AM on January 16, 2008

No joke: wear a ring. Men will still be friendly, but no one will hit on you. (Wear it on your right hand; you're not married but you're "engaged".)

Bzzzzzt. Wearing a ring certainly does no harm, and will deter all the respectful and observant guys (though not everyone will think to look at your finger, and not all cultures use rings in the same way), but is not the panacea that some have suggested. As others have said, rings (on men and women both) seem to attract more suitors than they repel. For every person who "respects" the ring, there will be two or three who see it as a signal of potential disease-free, non-stalker sex on the side. (And there are plenty of people wearing rings who are looking for a good, casual time, so that approach is not unwarranted.)

Guys don't have "girl friends", they have girls that they hang out with, that they want to have sex with, but are too afraid to lose the time they are spending with a girl they are SEXUALLY attracted to if they are rejected. The whole reason guys hang out with girls is because they are hoping that some day it turns to their favor.

Bzzzzzt again. I'm sure at business school you will also have classmates who will be happy to explain everything about gender in terms of pseudo-evolutionary psychology, so you can continue this part of the conversation at your convenience.

How can I keep interaction on a friendly level without dropping the "I'm off-limits, buddy" like an anvil, or leading a guy on?

There is nothing wrong or insulting or weird about bringing up your boyfriend early and often in conversations. It is the commonly-understood social signal of "I am attached," and works better than a ring in a lot of contexts. It is only awkward if you wait until after you have spent several weeks flirting to drop the "I have a boy/girlfriend" bombshell. The more naturally you can fit it into a conversation, the better, but err on the side of early and often.

From time to time when I'm being nice and friendly to a gal she'll "casually" work into a conversation she has a boyfriend, often times it is done so clumsily that it is clear the entire purpose of mentioning the boyfriend is to dissuade any romantic advances. Which would be fine if I was actually making romantic advances (or hell if I was even romantically interested in that person), but since that's not the case it certainly comes off as insulting.

That is really weird to me, but probably indicative of how a lot of men see these things, and why these interactions are unpleasant minefields for a lot of women. My reaction is: Why would I be insulted that a woman feels the need to preemptively mention a boyfriend because so many guys hit on her? How is that insulting to me? I can respond with a story about my girlfriend if I have one, or I can ask her about him and learn about something important to her -- something I need to be cool with if we are going to be friends. Being insulted by this is like being insulted that she comes from Michigan or watches baseball -- these are things that are of deep importance to her but say nothing about you. This strikes me as being really immature, honestly. If the OP is getting this kind of reaction from the boys she meets, I suggest she find some men to talk to.
posted by Forktine at 4:08 AM on January 16, 2008 [1 favorite]

Why would I be insulted that a woman feels the need to preemptively mention a boyfriend because so many guys hit on her? How is that insulting to me?... Being insulted by this is like being insulted that she comes from Michigan or watches baseball

There's a world of difference between someone mentioning their boyfriend spontaneously, because he is integral to some anecdote or some point they're making, versus consciously bringing him into the conversation to dissuade potential/imaginary romantic advances. Doing this introduces an inherently unfriendly, watchful, cautious, "don't go getting any ideas, buddy" tone into a conversation. This won't magically turn suitors into people who want to be friends, and it will be offputting to people who want to be friends, so it's kind of not worth it.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 4:31 AM on January 16, 2008

Several people have mentioned that bringing up a boyfriend early in conversation can indeed be insulting, or at least make the girl look vain. This is the problem - of COURSE I don't know whether a guy is potentially interested or just being friendly. Probably he's just being friendly. But how do I tell, and how do I work the relationship thing into a conversation non-awkwardly?

Like Nerdcore, I've been on "accidental dates" where I thought we were just hanging out as friends until the guy tried to kiss me or something. So I either seem like a stuck-up bitch that thinks every man is into her and mentions her boyfriend all the time, or a potential date.

This would be a problem if I were single, as well, which is one reason the ring suggestion is not a good one. Also, it might work for one night out at a bar, but these people will be getting to know me over a period of time. And they'll soon find out I'm neither married nor all that interested in marriage, at which point the ring will just look stupid.

The Facebook suggestion is a good one, though!
posted by Mr Bunnsy at 4:50 AM on January 16, 2008

But how do I tell, and how do I work the relationship thing into a conversation non-awkwardly?

Just ask them about themselves and steer the conversation to living arrangements and family and such. It's bound to come up in the conversation if it goes on for more than a few minutes. "Do you live around here, Charlie?" "Yes, I've got a flat across the river." "Sharing or on your own?" "I live with flatmates. Another single guy and a girl. How about you?" "I'm crashing on my cousin's couch while I'm enrolled. Back home I live with my boyfriend, but I had to come here to finish my MBA." "Where's back home?" etc.

As to how you tell, you can easily learn to tell if he's attracted to you (men are much less subtle than women, find a book on body language some time), but he might not have come to a decision as to what to do about it at that point in the conversation. :)
posted by aeschenkarnos at 5:18 AM on January 16, 2008

Oh, I'd just like to add: somehow, I'm maintaining quite a few (one might even say many) platonic friendships with straight men. They might be interested (a few have said as much) but they've ended that thought with 'but you're taken, so I'm not going to actually ask for anything, because you'd slap me'. Smart boys, they are.

The ones who actually asked? Not so bright, but the ones that are still friends had the sense to realise that a) no means no; and b) I am heavily comitted, and there is no such thing as a better offer, which is no fault of theirs, they're simply several years too late.

Guys who get shitty that you're already taken (and happily so) don't deserve your time, anyway.
posted by ysabet at 5:24 AM on January 16, 2008

Which would be fine if I was actually making romantic advances (or hell if I was even romantically interested in that person), but since that's not the case it certainly comes off as insulting.

See this is just weird to this guy. When meeting someone new, I think it's good to casually slip in that you're off the market, as it helps define the relationship in the initial stages. I always mention my wife to let women know I'm off the market and that I'm not interested in dating them, so we decide (subtlety) whether we're going to be friends. Invariably it usually works out to "Hey, we should double date" or "Oh cool you're an art geek and my spouse isn't , let's start building a friendship on that."

When I was single, I liked it when a newly met woman would mention she was seeing someone. It helped set the boundaries of the relationship.

So, Mr Bunnsy, I'd try a line about your BF and if someone acts insulted or ignores, that's great, 'cause they wouldn't be good friends anyway. So forget about'em, it's not your concern. Besides, shouldn't you be studying?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:56 AM on January 16, 2008

When meeting someone new, I think it's good to casually slip in that you're off the market, as it helps define the relationship in the initial stages.

Sure. The problem can be when someone slips it in not-so-casually. An extreme example would be something like:

Jack: Hi, I'm Jack.
Jill: Hi, I'm Jill. I HAVE A BOYFRIEND.

That would make Jill seem kinda weird. Of course, no one acts that awkwardly, but surely you can see that there would be other ways of communicating this information which would differ from that scenario only in degree. It's impossible for me to know whether Mr Bunnsy is doing this suavely and the guys or just jerks, or if she is doing it in a way that would invariably lead to much awkwardness. But regardless of how well she is doing it, she has come here to ask for advice rather than validation. She is the only one here who will be able to make value judgments on her own social skills and the attitude of the men around her.

I think aeschenkarnos's suggestion is a good way to do it non-awkwardly.
posted by grouse at 6:09 AM on January 16, 2008 [1 favorite]

The problem can be when someone slips it in not-so-casually.

Well, yeah. Don't do that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 AM on January 16, 2008

I briefly considered the same questions when I started my MBA program in much the same situation. I found that just being normal was best. Sure, there was some weird tension with a few people before "the truth" came out, but all in all it wasn't really a thing. Most of the friends I had in school were guys and there was really only one time that I was really uncomfortable with a fellow classmate (it involved a huge bouquet of flowers and was not typical).

Like a few others mentioned, my SO simply came up throughout the course of conversation. Or I had to explain that I couldn't schedule a group meeting for that particular weekend, because I was going out of town to see my boyfriend, etc. You're not the only one going into grad school with an SO, either. A good deal of my classmates were engaged, married, or in otherwise committed relationships. In fact, oftentimes the way I ended up mentioning my SO was when a male classmate was talking about his SO and we would swap stories.

I wouldn't wear a ring. I had enough classmates thinking I was engaged/married before I had any supplemental jewelry. It's just going to give you problems. People are going to ask about him and your plans and you're going to have to explain that he lives thousands of miles away and you aren't really engaged? And then when you do get engaged/married, it's not like you can really be excited to share the news with your friends, since they thought you already were. I hope that makes sense.

FWIW, I received a necklace from my SO a year or so after starting my program that was unique enough to generate a lot of questions when I wore it (there was a visible inscription that people would ask about) and that was a great way to mention the SO without being an anvil. Plus it was a really sweet sentiment and people got the idea that not only was I taken, I was happily taken. YMMV but I thought it was worth mentioning.
posted by ml98tu at 6:25 AM on January 16, 2008

No joke: wear a ring. Men will still be friendly, but no one will hit on you. (Wear it on your right hand; you're not married but you're "engaged".)

What you really got to do is wear a Claddagh ring turned inside, so everyone knows your heart is taken. Oh wait, it's not sixth grade anymore. Anyways, I'm following this question with some interest, because it's so weird to bring up having a boyfriend earlier enough without seeming like he is the only thing you talk about.
posted by fermezporte at 6:26 AM on January 16, 2008

In the interest of full disclosure, I do tend to interact with new people in a sarcastic/teasing manner, which I suppose could be interpreted as flirting. I also have ADD, with the attendant ability to hyperfocus, and I tend to hyperfocus upon meeting someone interesting. Meaning that I pay attention to them and ask lots of questions, make a lot of eye contact, and generally am (or try to be) more funny and charming than usual. So that may be perceived as flirtation by guys as well.

This is the key part of the question. If you don't want unwanted male attention, don't flirt with males. I've re-written this answer four times already to make it read less sexist, but it's really that simple. I have/had a close friend who complains of this same problem, and I assure you her problem is that she is just an absolute uncontrollable flirt who then pretends the reciprocated attention is unwanted. If you don't want the attention, you must stop the flirting. If you want the attention, you must learn to deal with the negative repercussions of it.

Poop. It still reads as kind of sexist.
posted by norm at 8:00 AM on January 16, 2008 [1 favorite]

I think norm has a point- if your behavior is part of the problem, you may have to scale it back. It's not like you have to stop smiling or laughing or making jokes, but I think if you really listen to your motivations (can be difficult! easier to live in denial!), you'll know when you're being friendly and when you're looking for attention, and you can adjust your behavior accordingly.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:16 AM on January 16, 2008 [1 favorite]

Just another data point. I like it when a girl mentions her boyfriend in the first 10 minutes of a conversation. It is easy to do casually, because he is a big part of your life and can be related to almost anything you're chatting about. I am not insulted by this at all. If it's someone that I'm not attracted to, I just assume that they are mentioning their boyfriend because he's part of their life.

If a girl doesn't mention a boyfriend for a long time, and then does, and they are serious, it always seems to me that she was sort of intentionally withholding the information. Not because she was trying to decieve me but because she was worried about mentioning it and insulting me or having me respond badly. That is more insulting to me than the early mention.

The ring. Forget it. Many guys of business school age won't notice.

If your personality can be interpreted as flirty, I think you're going to have a hard time "just not flirting with males." Better to err on the side of caution and get the information out there so you don't have to worry about whether you're being flirty or not.
posted by underwater at 10:00 AM on January 16, 2008

Reading the responses thus far, the obvious problem (and what I'm sure is making your head spin) is that the reactions seem to be running approximately 50/50 between "I find it insulting when a girl mentions having a boyfriend early on in a conversation. Flatter yourself much?" and "Mention you have a boyfriend right away. No guy worth being friends with will be insulted. Slip it in early and often"

Chances are, potential male friends will run the same gamut of reactions. Personally, I think it's fine to bring up your boyfriend in conversation, provided it comes up organically. If at any point you feel yourself bringing up his name for the sole purpose of letting others know your attached (with the obvious exception of when you're actually being asked out in which case it's obviously fair game) it's probably going to come off insulting to some guys and should be avoided. But I don't think you need to completely delete him from your conversations in cases when his being involved in vital to the point of the story/conversation. If someone gets insulted at the mere mention of the guy you're dating there's really not a whole lot you can do.
posted by The Gooch at 10:28 AM on January 16, 2008

I know whereof you speak, OP. I've run into this situation fairly frequently -- I have more male friends than female, often find myself in professional situations that have a higher male-to-female ratio, and have been the recipient of some awkward misunderstandings. When I'm not feeling shy, I'm a very friendly gal, and I've definitely been in situations where my natural friendliness and interest in conversation was taken as flirtatious when it was very much not meant that way.

As others have mentioned, the ring doesn't necessarily scare people off. Some guys don't seem to have such keen observational powers, and literally don't look for it. Also, conversely, there are those that see it and view it as a challenge. I've had guys try to tell me "oh, pshaw! we could just have an affair!" as I waved my ring in their faces. For serious.

However, with most people, slipping mention of my husband into conversation early defuses the situation. And I do try to do it relatively early. First, for the rarer hard cases, the mention makes it clear that my mind is on that relationship, rather than "well, she's wearing a ring, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's not interested in going home with me." Second, and more relevant in most situations, it creates a nice friendly playing field where the guy has a context for my behavior instantly -- rather than interpreting my friendliness as flirting, he's more likely to be able to place it as "she's attached, she's just being friendly." Which saves me some awkwardness later on of having to correct someone's misapprehensions, and him the annoyance of going through a conversation with a very different idea of what is going on.

It is key not to be all MY BOYFRIEND LIKES WEATHER. Find a natural spot to insert a single mention, and then drop it -- don't be all, YOU KNOW WHO LIKES BEER? MY BOYFRIEND! and DID I MENTION I'M SEEING MY BOYFRIEND THIS WEEKEND!? And continue as you were, friendly and all. If you don't act weird and guarded, like you're using it as a shield, then they won't see it that way. You're just having a friendly conversation, saying the things you usually would to a friend. If you treat it like that, it won't come off as awkwardly or like a defensive maneuver.

I've never had anyone act insulted when I mentioned my boyfriend or husband. Maybe because I do it smoothly enough. :) I have occasionally had people seem to "drop off", like maybe they're not going to invest as much in the conversation, or really, maybe they're just backing off a little now that they know I'm attached. But that's fine. It would be (and is) odd if someone put the hard sell on you after it was clear you weren't looking.

Some people do seem to be taking the whole "well gosh, you sure think you're fabulous" tack, which you specifically made points against in your post. To the fellows getting shirty, I do have to say -- it's not that all women think all men are trying to get in our pants, all the time. However, enough of us have usually had what we thought were friendly conversations later reveal themselves to be attempts to get in our pants that we're generally interested in avoiding any possible miscommunications, just for everyone's sake. Even better, many of us have run into accusations of "leading a guy on" in these sorts of situations (that we thought were just friendly chats) by not mentioning a boyfriend/husband early on -- so again, you can see why a lot of us prefer just to be safe. Maye it is a come-on, maybe it's not, and I may not even think you're flirting with me -- but it's clear from my experience that we often have different definitions of what is considered flirtatious, so better just to be on the safe side than trust that my sense that a conversation is not headed that way is correct.
posted by tigerbelly at 12:19 PM on January 16, 2008 [3 favorites]

I totally don't get why toning down your image is "absolutely terrible advice". Please explain (I'm not being snarky, I'm totally serious. I'm obviously missing something.)

FYI, I'm also in the camp of NOT trying to drop "boyfriend" into the conversation early on. I feel that it could come off wrong, as in "OMG, stop hitting on me already, I totally have a boyfriend!", or "I'm waving the boyfriend flag, so don't even think about it buddy!" Which is NOT how you mean it to come off I'm sure, but the word "boyfriend" intentionally weaved into dialogue could possibly have that effect.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:05 PM on January 16, 2008

I totally don't get why toning down your image is "absolutely terrible advice". Please explain (I'm not being snarky, I'm totally serious. I'm obviously missing something.)

There's lots of reasons- #1, it won't work. If you are a funny, smart, flirty person, you could wear a paper sack and still have others find you attractive. #2, you are going to business school to make something of yourself, and to network with people who are looking to be movers and shakers- this is not a time in your life when you want to look like a slob. #3, you are not 12 years old; coming to class just out of bed or wearing sweatpants in a school environment is an ABSOLUTE NO-NO. #4, and this is the most important- changing your costume is the lazy way out. If you want to change how people treat you in a serious way, you need to change the way you think and the way you act. Hiding behind clothes and rings and Facebook profiles while failing to address the inside stuff is.... a waste of life potential, IMO.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:19 PM on January 16, 2008 [2 favorites]

ok, yes, very good points. I wasn't really thinking of it in that way, obviously. I guess what I was trying to convey (and doing so very poorly) is to dress normal/professional/as-you-would for class, going out, etc. But for time alone with these guys, don't go out of your way...don't primp, or put on lots of makeup, lowcut shirts, etc. Basically, just be conscious of any somewhat unnecessary effort you're putting into your appearance that may be misconstrued as something other than what it is. I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek and overexaggerated in my original reply, which did not come off as intended.

And on review, my suggestions would be no substitute for the plethora of much better advice given in this thread.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:32 PM on January 16, 2008

Iamkimiam - I actually took it as I think you intended, not to look like a slob all the time but just not to put too much effort into my appearance for friendly hanging out. Which I liked as it would be a good excuse to slack off on the grooming and make-up.

But realistically, a lot of the socializing takes place in bars and restaurants, and I'm way too self-conscious to go out in public looking like I just rolled out of bed. Still, I get the gist of it an will take it under advisement - one never wants to be overdressed and I do have that tendency.
posted by Mr Bunnsy at 7:32 PM on January 16, 2008

Despite the fact that I am sixth months late, this is hilariously appropriate (also nsfw):

http://www.break.com/index/she-has-a-boyfriend.html
posted by acehigh at 8:10 AM on July 8, 2008 [1 favorite]