Damn cats again

January 14, 2008 2:05 AM

Please help me settle a discussion with my boyfriend: he says that panthers are always leopards. In Wikipedia I have read that the word "panther" can mean several kinds of big cats:

"In North America, "panther" is used most often to refer the Florida panther sub-population. In South America, "panther" refers to both the spotted and black color morphs of the jaguar, while it is also broadly used to refer to the Old World leopard."

... in the cougar entry, or:

"A panther can be any of several species of large felid; in North America, the term refers to cougars, in South America, jaguars, and elsewhere, leopards. Early naturalists distinguished between leopards and panthers not by colour (a common misconception), but by the length of the tail—panthers having longer tails than leopards."

... in the leopard entry.

I can't find any real world references however -- by which I mean: books. I won't have a discussion where Wikipedia is my only source because that's just very, very lame, so it's either admitting he is right (and he might well be) or finding books that back up the Wikipedia articles. I don't have the time to go to the library and look it up in the next few days, so I was hoping you could give me some references.

And yes, I solemnly promise never to start discussions based on what I have read in Wikipedia ever again.

posted by Skyanth to pets & animals (12 comments total)

Wikipedia is a fine reference for these kinds of discussions. DTMFA.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:14 AM on January 14, 2008 [3 favorites]

Will information from the San Diego Zoo suffice?

http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-jaguar.html


What’s a black panther?

"Most jaguars have tawny-colored fur with black rosettes, but some have black-on-black, or melanistic, coloration. (Click here to Spot the Cat Coats.) Usually jaguars that are found in darker rain forest areas are black. So, are they black panthers? No, there is no such animal! “Panther” is just an old general term that comes from the Panthera animal grouping name, and is sometimes used to describe leopards, jaguars, and pumas."
posted by B(oYo)BIES at 2:15 AM on January 14, 2008

Encyclopedia Brittanica says a panther is a leopard or a puma.

The OED says:

1. a. Originally: an exotic spotted big cat that was believed to be distinct from the leopard. Now: a leopard (Panthera pardus), esp. a melanistic one.
As with other exotic animals, the name, handed down from the Latin writers, was known long before the animal; all the early references merely reflect the statements of ancient authors and their medieval continuators. These statements were long believed to refer to a beast distinct from the leopard. This belief was encouraged by the existence of two Latin names, panth{emac}ra and pardus (see PARD n.1); the ancient writers themselves were not clear as to the relation between the two. The perceived distinction was further perpetuated by fabulous notions regarding the generation of the leopard as a hybrid between the lion and the ‘pard’, and also regarding the sweet fragrance fabled to be exhaled by the panther. Until the mid-19th cent. many taxonomists considered the panther and the leopard to be separate species, differentiated on the basis of size and pattern of spots.

b. Chiefly N. Amer. The puma or cougar, Felis concolor (cf. PAINTER n.3); (also) †the jaguar, Panthera onca (obs.).

So they seem to think it is a leopard in British/Commonwealth usage. It can also be used to include cougars in North American usage. They claim the usage of "panther" to mean a jaguar was once possible but is now obsolete.

Merriam-Webster says:

1: leopard : as a: a leopard of a hypothetical exceptionally large fierce variety b: a leopard of the black color phase
2: cougar — compare florida panther
3: jaguar

posted by grouse at 2:34 AM on January 14, 2008

Not to hijack, but why does Vermont use the term "Catamount"? Where does that come from?
posted by Corduroy at 2:38 AM on January 14, 2008

OED says it is a shortening of catamountain or cat o' mountain. Not too hard to understand considering cougars are also called mountain lions.
posted by grouse at 2:42 AM on January 14, 2008

SO and I love Wikipedia. We both 'know everything' so all conversations ...or debates end in "Wikipedia will know!" and that's the end of it until we get home!

Erm did you read that without him distracting you over your shoulder...? Yeah, ok your boyfriend is right and several articles in The Wikipedia are wrong.
Hey it's not IMpossible but he's wrong which means it is - so there you go.

Psst - Wikipedia lists their sources at the bottom of the page...
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 2:42 AM on January 14, 2008

mu~ha~etc: I know, but there are no sources for that bit of info.
posted by Skyanth at 2:48 AM on January 14, 2008

OED says it is a shortening of catamountain or cat o' mountain. Not too hard to understand considering cougars are also called mountain lions.

That's actually awesome.
posted by Corduroy at 3:16 AM on January 14, 2008

I think Catamount comes from the French ' cat of the mountain'. The term shows up again in the southern Appalachians towards Louisiana. Probably the French-Canadian influence in Vermont.
posted by buttercup at 3:21 AM on January 14, 2008

In English the term "catamount" dates from 1664 England, and regarding "catamountain," the OED says, "app. of English formation: it does not appear that the ME. ‘cat of the mountain’ was a translation from another language."
posted by grouse at 3:27 AM on January 14, 2008

This is anecdotal, but I think this is one realm wherein anecdotal evidence makes sense. He's saying that a panther is always a leopard, but no one in the United States would ever agree with him, so far as I know. We've got our own large mountain cats here, and they go by various names: puma, panther, mountain lion, mountain cat, catamount, et cetera. Now, Europe has those as well, I know, but over here I've never in my life heard one of these creatures referred to as a "leopard." Leopards, so goes the common knowledge, are spotted and live abroad. But that's clearly a 'new world' conception, looking around at the internet. Even so, it's clearly not true that panthers are always leopards, given that there are other things called 'panthers' that aren't leopards.

In any case, you can also make the technical argument: Leopards are just one member of the genus Panthera. There are several others, so he's clearly not right if he means that Leopards are the only cats under that genus. Also,
posted by koeselitz at 4:47 AM on January 14, 2008

Using common English names for taxonomical purposes rarely works out well. I read a similar wikipedia dispute about what to name the cetacean section. Some people claimed that the all cetaceans are whales, others claimed that dolphins and porpoises are separate from whales, which seems to make sense, you wouldn't call a tiny harbor porpoise a whale. But then you have species like Killer Whales and Pilot Whales who are technically in the dolphin family so does this mean they are actually not whales?

Basically, just use the common names in everyday speech, but when you need precision switch to the taxonomically names.
posted by afu at 6:37 AM on January 14, 2008 [1 favorite]