Comments on: Where can I go to try and hurt people safely?

Question: Where can I go to try and hurt people safely?

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:27:10 -0800

Where can I go to let my rage out by really trying to hurt people, but safely for me and for them? Ideally, this would be like a self-defense scenario, with two or more padded and armored attackers I can go all out against, but who are willing to accommodate my individual scenario over just an hour or two. Difficulty: I am a big guy with martial arts experience.

When I was about eight, I was sexually assaulted. It was really quite minor, in the grand scheme of things - one man held me while the other groped my crotch through my clothes. I thought I had really forgotten about it until I started therapy to become more emotionally open, and I realized that the feeling of powerlessness from that moment had really shaped my life.

My way of dealing with the emotion of that time was to provide as much control in my life as I could. I studied martial arts in college for personal safety. I am still very aware of my surroundings when I am outside, and often visualize what to do if invaders were to come in my house. I also tried to keep total control over my emotions when stressed. All this worked for a while, but I found my life flat and and sterile because suppressing the bad emotions suppressed the good ones as well.

So I started therapy. Now, in my early forties, I have a great and loving wife and a happy life. I am more able to care and love and be happy. But I still have in my this incredible rage from my assault. I think of it as my "killing rage" and am scared - terrified - to let it out. But it is bottled up with other emotions that I want, and I really feel the need to just work it out by letting the rage out to see what happens and what comes with it. The problem is, I don't want to hurt anyone. I am a very big guy, and though it is 20 years past, still remember lots of striking and kicking basics.

So what I am looking for is a supportive, controlled environment where I can recreate my assault, but in this case let the rage out and fight back as hard as I could. I envision fighting a couple of opponents quite brutally for just a minute or two, then taking a break to get back in control, but doing this several times over an hour or two. I would want the opponents to be safe, which means padding and armor and enough skill to protect themselves.

Where can I go to do this? Is there a self-defense studio that would understand and accommodate me? Northern Virginia/DC area is best, but it is important to me and I would be willing to travel if needed.

I have set up the email address stompingmywaytoinnerpeace@gmail.com if you want to contact me offline.

Thanks for any recommendations.

P.S. - I know the emotions I am feeling are not uncommon. Is the way I want to deal with them totally odd? This was my idea, and my therapist is totally on board with it.

By: Koko

Koko — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:10:54 -0800

I would suggest calling a few dojos in your area and explaining what you want to do. I'm sure one of them will have a couple guys who will be willing to accommodate. Good luck!

And no, it's not odd to want to deal with your emotions that way. I found martial arts to be very therapeutic in that regard.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:15:59 -0800

No joke: Pick up a taste in heavy metal and head down to your local mosh pit. Lots of energetic and voluntarily, physically violent types there with whom to share your rage.

By: thehmsbeagle

thehmsbeagle — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:19:42 -0800

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I think it's brave and great that you're willing to look at it now.

A lot womens-self-defense type classes will involve a big scary guy in padding coming at you, and they might be able to help you out. I mention this because I think those guys - based on my own experience - are used to people working out some emotional stuff as part of the exercise.

Good luck!

By: salvia

salvia — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:23:56 -0800

Hmm. Calling a few dojos seems like a decent start, but the trick is that you also want them to essentially grope you, right?, and that what you're doing is really psychologically charged. (On preview, thehmsbeagle is ahead of me.) Can your therapist work through any local therapist networks to try to find people who are psychologically astute and also in the self defense or martial arts community?

By: Deathalicious

Deathalicious — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:27:08 -0800

I am personally of the school of thought that says the best way for people to deal with things is by choosing what they believe will work for them.

A couple of weeks ago I was feeling a lot of rage for no particular reason (I was lucky to never have the experience you did) and I thought about posting a similar AskMe about positive ways to exercise my destructive urges (Difficulty: I am a puny guy and would shatter my fist punching a piece of Styrofoam).

If you find it difficult to arrange it with people -- although I have a feeling you will be able to -- there are plenty of other ways to express rage, even violent rage, without necessarily using people. When I was in therapy as a kid I would hit a pillow; I imagine you could get your hands on something bigger and a little meatier (an old firm futon, propped up somehow, comes to mind) and kick its ass.

No joke: Pick up a taste in heavy metal and head down to your local mosh pit. Lots of energetic and voluntarily, physically violent types there with whom to share your rage.

I'd recommend against this in this case. I've had loads of fun in mosh pits as a kid, but there was nothing emotionally charged or loaded behind me wanting to smash into someone else. If you get in this environment, the possibility that you respond as the victim-now-powerful is a real danger: you could react as if this was a real threat to you and escalate the violence rather than having it be controlled.

IMO you definitely want to be in an environment where people know why you're needing to express your rage and how to respond correctly to it.

By: idiotfactory

idiotfactory — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:32:40 -0800

Dude. SCA.

A couple of my ultra-nerdy spindly milquetoast friends would go out on campus, harass the biggest, toughest guys they could find in hopes of picking a fight. Just before they would throw down, they'd invite them over to suit up and bash each other with sticks. It was how they recruited, and it worked.

I think you'd love it.

By: aeschenkarnos

aeschenkarnos — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:37:43 -0800

I envision fighting a couple of opponents quite brutally for just a minute or two, then taking a break to get back in control, but doing this several times over an hour or two. I would want the opponents to be safe, which means padding and armor and enough skill to protect themselves.

That sounds like an SCA tournament to me. Have you considered medieval reenactment? The SCA is one of the largest and most popular groups (this is the branch that is probably closest to you). Now, the SCA are into dressing up in armor and whacking each other with rattan swords, but that's by no means all they are into, and they tend to have more restraint in combat than you perhaps may be seeking. On the other hand, you may find the whole thing to be a hell of a lot of fun.

Even if the SCA don't suit your needs, there are two things the SCA can do for you: they can tell you when and where multi-group medieval fayres are next scheduled; and they can point you in the direction of groups that are more directly focused on hand-to-hand combat, rather than combat, feasting, dancing, and role-playing. In my home city of Brisbane, Australia, which is far smaller and less diverse than Washington, there are at least four groups that I know of that are primarily into putting on armor and whacking the crap out of each other with fake (and near-real, if not sharp) swords: there's a Scottish Highlander group, there's a Roman Legion group, there's a group that are basically fencers with hats, and there's another group that are generally considered mad bastards but I'm not precisely sure why - they probably use real weapons or something. Generally all such groups will come along to medieval fayres.

If that's not your thing, fair enough. Worth looking at if you've never considered it before, though. SCA offers fun and social events for your wife and kids as well.

As far as standard martial arts are concerned, any experienced sensei is very, very familiar with men (and sometimes women) seeking a chance to get into physical combat to work out some issues. It's very common, and there's nothing wrong with it. You seem a hell of a lot more sensible and self-aware than most people looking for fights. I would suggest you just go around the local martial arts clubs and watch the classes, watch the sparring in particular (a Tae Kwon Do club that does full-contact sparring with gloves, helmets and shinpads sounds ideal for you), and talk to the sensei.

Conventional boxing is well worth considering too. The rules are strict but the adrenaline rush is real, and as a big guy with martial arts experience and some anger issues to work out, you'll be among your fellows. Again, watch the sparring and talk to the coach.

By: idiotfactory

idiotfactory — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:39:53 -0800

I suppose I should also mention that it is family friendly as well. While you are fighting a battle with 500 of your closest friends in armor, your wife and/or kids could be cooking, singing, sewing, delivering water, leatherworking, archery, or even fighting along side you. There are people of all ages and backgrounds. It's not a ren-fair or fantasy role-playing so much as it is a historical reenactment.

I'm sure other nerds will chime in as well.

By: ignignokt

ignignokt — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:42:15 -0800

Try going to a judo, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, or mixed martial arts gym. There is always plenty of full-contact sparring, and certainly always a few guys that can handle even a big guy with little problem, especially one that hasn't trained in years. You'll certainly have the chance to unleash all of your energy and fight as hard as you can.

However, it's not likely that they'd want to be involved in recreating that specific scenario. If you really feel that you need to recreate that scenario, you need to look more along the lines of big actors in padding. After all, if you really tried to fight off two fully non-compliant guys, they'd beat you, no matter how big or how skilled you are. It sounds like you basically need these two guys to just cover up while you hit them. Before you go through arranging such a legally and logistically difficult event, though, see what a psychiatrist thinks about it if you haven't already.

Still, it might be more helpful and therapeutic overall to regularly let out your aggression that it would be to stage act that exact scenario. I don't have any particularly intense rage, but I do know that I'm generally less agitated and more relaxed in every day life when I train regularly.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:59:09 -0800

Rugby is the answer.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:03:04 -0800

Sauchiehall st on a saturday night in Glasgow is your best bet.

By: ArgentCorvid

ArgentCorvid — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:27:58 -0800

Not quite Martial-artsy, but would competing in a Demolition Derby be something you would consider? There is definitely the potential for injuring yourself and/or others. And you get to break stuff.

I'm not sure if it would be personal enough or if you'd feel in control enough for what you are looking for, but it's a reasonably controlled environment.

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:28:15 -0800

To riff on what Blazecock Pileon suggested above: find your local punk club and attend the hardcore shows. If you're a big strong physical guy you can easily exhaust yourself gleefully throwing people around, and they'll sometimes buy you beer for doing so! A friend of mine liked to position his 6'5" 400-lb frame at the back of the mosh pit and let kids use his back as a launchpad to dive into the middle. Fun and cathartic. Be careful, though -- if you're good at it, they'll want to hire you as a bouncer.

By: jmd82

jmd82 — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:06:00 -0800

ignignokt's suggestion of Judo or Brazilian jiu-jitsu was the first thing that came to mind. I've dabbled in some of the arts, and those can be fairly hardcore, including people accidentally breaking bones. Follow the other advice of checking out different dojos- some will be more intense than others.
They key, if you get into the martial arts, is still being able to keep your cool. Yes, some of the arts can get very physical, but they're still in control of their body and are not intending to hurt anyone.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:19:05 -0800

No joke: Pick up a taste in heavy metal and head down to your local mosh pit. Lots of energetic and voluntarily, physically violent types there with whom to share your rage.

No one is supposed to get hurt in a mosh pit, and it certainly doesn't sound like the controlled environment the OP is looking for- he wants to overcome his assailants. If he inadvertently hurts somebody, he could be jumped by all that person's friends. Not very therapeutic.

By: HighTechUnderpants

HighTechUnderpants — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:49:06 -0800

To go one step further than the boxing, BJJ, or Judo, why not train to compete in an MMA fight? There are tons of local shows, and an absolute dearth of Heavyweights with skill. So if your striking skills are decent from training in college, get the rust off, learn some grappling, and kick some ass. Some shows are set up as four man tournaments, so you could even get the rage, come down, then rage again thing, if you want.

Here are a few caveats, though: do this on the up-and-up, with a well regarded, legitimate promoter. Go to a doctor, and get yourself medically cleared to fight. And lastly, learn the game of MMA. Don't assume your striking training will carry you through. Learn grappling, work on your striking, and spar in a way that puts it all together.

By: Malor

Malor — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:49:37 -0800

After all, if you really tried to fight off two fully non-compliant guys, they'd beat you, no matter how big or how skilled you are.

ignignokt: This guy has a background in martial arts and a lot of anger; it's entirely possible he'll throw them around like rag dolls. Under that kind of emotional stress, he could end up functioning at a level far past his training. His focus on safety and choosing highly skilled opponents is commendable.

anonymous: I think the suggestion of trying to use your therapist to make the contacts is a good one. I think you can probably get people to help with this, but it's a weird thing to ask about personally. If your therapist asks for you, it's much more impersonal in the beginning, and people can get used to the idea. I think my dojo would have been happy to help you, and I'm sure there must be others that also would be. But it'll be easier if your therapist makes the initial contact.

By: Maias

Maias — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:08:08 -0800

There is a program with the dumb name Model Mugging that offers exactly what you want for rape survivors.

This is the URL. http://www.modelmugging.org/

I read a hilarious article once about a guy who served as the "bad guy" in the padded outfits for them.

By: lhall

lhall — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:21:27 -0800

Just to chime in, I sat in on a Rape Aggression Defense (RAD) session once for my school's newspaper. The guy in the suit is probably always gonna be one of the police officers running the sessions. After one girl whose "fight" instinct kicked in before her "flight", he was laughing because she'd made him sore - and she was a small lady.

Also, the guides on the side of the room had to shout repeatedly for her to run for the exit before she realized what was going on. So I definitely support the idea mentioned above that you should look into someone with specific talents in this area, as you might find your strength and training are overtaken by your emotional response.

I took a couple of photos if you wanna see what they look like: 1, 2. Those classes were really intense and amazing to watch. I came out of it really respecting the people who take time to set them up and run them (which they did free of charge).

By: pseudostrabismus

pseudostrabismus — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:29:34 -0800

I think taking out your demons in a controlled setting is a great idea.

I think working these issues out in a public, uncontrolled setting is a TERRIBLE idea.

Please don't use rugby or a mosh pit or sports or lessons for this- I've been in athletic and classroom situations where another participant was clearly tapping into his own deep confusing emotional issues, and it was an unsafe & terrifying experience for all the innocent bystanders. Once in an acting class, a classmate got all Stanislavsky during his scene from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. It felt like he was tapping into a well of emotion that had nothing to do with scene study class, and he injured his scene partner when he "emotionally" smashed a chair.

Tackling a rugby opponent to get a ball and tackling them to work out abuse issues should NOT mix! Especially since the OP is a big athletic guy who has formal training in how to injure people.

Thankfully it sounds from the question that the OP has the sense to not take is problems to inexperienced people who don't know what to expect from him-- but finger wags to the mefites who suggested he mosh it out on a bunch of unsuspecting fratboys. Come on guys, use a little common sense!

By: ignignokt

ignignokt — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:57:44 -0800

Malor, his martial arts training was 20 years ago, and like the saying goes, "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." If he last trained in 1987, it's likely that he did not even train with full contact sparring against live, resisting opponents, as it was much less widespread before the nineties. Unless his padded faux attackers were very small, I doubt he'd throw them around like ragdolls. It's incredibly hard to throw someone that doesn't want to be thrown unless you know what you're doing. Given that fighting multiple motivated opponents that are your size is a grim proposition. I don't care if you're Fedor Emelianenko or Rickson Gracie.

Anonymous, this is no knock on your combat abilities. I have no doubt you could beat the average guy your size, as long as there's only one of him. HighTechUnderpants suggestion about training for an MMA fight sounds like it might make you feel better than even playing out a scenario against some big guys willing to take a dive. It would make you very confident in yourself and your ability to defend yourself.

By: ignignokt

ignignokt — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:01:38 -0800

A clarification about my original comment: By "actors in padding," I don't mean your typical theater dudes. I meant big, strong guys that are willing to play the part of assailants and take a dive. Sorry if that was confusing.

By: pfafflin

pfafflin — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:04:51 -0800

Perhaps visit a batting cage? This has helped me with stress and anger in the past.

While you work out that aggression while swinging a big stick, the rhythm of the pitches becomes, for me at least, very calming.

By: rhapsodie

rhapsodie — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:35:52 -0800

My coworker has some foam swords that he and a friend use to beat on each other. He'll sometimes even put weights on his ankles and wrists to make it more of a work out, and they will often leave bruises on each other. They love it.

By: footnote

footnote — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 04:59:32 -0800

P.S. - I know the emotions I am feeling are not uncommon. Is the way I want to deal with them totally odd? This was my idea, and my therapist is totally on board with it.

I don't think your idea is odd, but I'm not sure it's going to work the way you think it will.

Childhood abuse and neglect enhance long-term hyperarousal and decreased modulation of strong affect states. Abused children may require much higher external stimulation to affect the endogenous opioid system for soothing than when the biologic concomitants of comfort are easily activated by conditioned responses based on good early caregiving experiences. Victimized people may neutralize their hyperarousal by a variety of addictive behaviors, including compulsive re-exposure to victimization of self and others. Gaining control over one's current life, rather than repeating trauma in action, mood, or somatic states, is the goal of treatment. The only reason to uncover traumatic material is to gain conscious control over unbidden re-experiences or re-enactments. The presence of strong attachments provides people with the security necessary to explore their life experiences and to interrupt the inner or social isolation that keeps them stuck in repetitive patterns. In contrast with victimized children, adults can learn to protect themselves and make conscious choices about not engaging in relationships or behaviors that are harmful.

By: electroboy

electroboy — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:38:49 -0800

Seconding rugby, just keep it cool in practice. Save it for the games.

By: mmagin

mmagin — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:17:19 -0800

So, you probably know how to defend yourself. Nonetheless, I suspect you'd get a lot out of a Impact men's basic class. And you would get to hit people (in special protective gear) as hard as you would hit a real attacker.

http://www.impactsafety.org/chapters.htm
(The Men's basics class is offered far less often than the women's class, but it's still offered here and there.)

I'd suggest you look at it as more than just a way to get rage out. It does address that subject, but I think the larger idea is developing a sense of empowerment and control.

(Not affiliated with the organization, just someone who took the Men's Basics class and was really impressed by it.)