Cable TV is gone - what's an 11-year old to do?

January 10, 2008 12:02 PM

My 11-year old niece is a TV addict - help us help her break the addiction!

We recently were given legal guardianship of my 11-year old niece. Despite some initial fears and questionable quirks, she has adapted to life with us pretty well.

We quickly became aware of how excessive her TV watching habits were, and, in light of poor academic performance, we limited it to 3 hours a day. She is not overweight, so the TV hasn't affected her health in that way, but she has been diagnosed with ADD, Inattentive type. (Studies have shown links between excessive TV watching and attention problems.)

So, it didn't break our hearts when we decided to save ourselves $80 a month and cancel our cable TV subscription. It's breaking her heart, though, and she's transferred her TV habits to the computer (YouTube and nick.com).

This is a child who is gifted in drawing (and often draws while watching TV). She likes music (and often listens to music while watching TV). She likes to play videogames (and often plays videogames while watching TV). Obviously, she needs visual stimulus and TV provides it.

So, what can we do to limit her TV/Computer watching habits, short of disconnecting the internet or taking punitive actions?

FWIW:
* We have been very active in finding things to do on the weekends that get her away from the TV, but the minute she's home, she's back to watching TV programs. We've been told by her mother that we've taken her more places and done more things with my niece in the past 4 months than she has in as many years, but it doesn't seem to be enough.
* She doesn't/won't read and doesn't like to play outside. Obviously, these are habits that were set when she was young, so advice on how to change them is welcomed, too.
* She doesn't like school and doesn't want to do extracurricular activities at school.
* I have started a dialogue with the effect of TV on her adolescent brain. I even made little miniature "motivational" posters with factoids about TV and its effect on academic success and intelligence. (I fear that may be over the top, though!)

posted by parilous to human relations (42 comments total)

(Sorry, that should be: "I have started a dialogue with her about the effect of TV...")
posted by parilous at 12:03 PM on January 10

Take the computer out of her room (if it's there). Put it in your sight and set a strict limit on the amount of time she can spend using it. Password protect the computer/internet access if necessary but keep in mind that a password is a poor substitute for just watching her. In short, you're the parent figure, you can decide exactly how much time she's allowed to spend in front of a screen.

As far as finding other things to do, sign her up for a class/sports team through a community center (possibly with kids from other schools). Depending on what's available and what she's interested in basketball, ballet, soccer, lacrosse, swimming, softball, drawing, painting, pottery, choir, and martial arts are all viable options. Eleven is still young enough to start most of these things without being too far behind. If you're religious (or at least willing to expose your niece to religion) then churches tend to be a good source of activities for kids with a high adult to kid ratio and little tolerance for bullying.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 12:16 PM on January 10

Oh, and limit the "TV rots your brain" talk. Sure it's true but what you really need to focus on is finding more exciting things for your niece to do.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 12:17 PM on January 10 [5 favorites]

The desire for excessive online time and excessive stimuli (tv, phone, homework, games, all at the same time) is pretty normal for adolescents who are trying to see how everyone else lives their lives so that they can figure out how they want to live theirs. (sorry for the run-on sentence).

But I agree that it's not healthy. First, the computer should definitely be in a main room, NOT in her private space. Internet time should be earned-- ask for mid quarter reports from her teachers, and set goals with her. Work really hard on your math homework and get an A average for three weeks, earn 10 extra minutes of online time per evening. Do this list of chores every week, earn 10 more minutes per evening. She's at a great age to begin the bargaining process, so get her involved a little, but just a little.

Upon rereading the question, why doesn't she like school? This needs to be addressed in a big way. She doesn't need to be homecoming queen and president of the cheerleaders, but not wanting to do extracurricular activities is a worry as there is usually something for everyone, or she could start her own thing. Does she need to be transferred? Homeschooled? Just throwing things out there.

She's probably always going to want media stimulus, but that will only be in balance if you can entertain her in another way. Good luck finding that!
posted by orangemiles at 12:21 PM on January 10

IANAD and all that, but I am a parent of a child with ADHD who also has a screen addiction. I know that he's more likely to want to sit in front of a screen when he's not on his medication (I am not advocating that you put your niece on meds, I'm just telling you what our experience is). His brain needs stimulation and if he doesn't get it from his meds, he gets it from TV/computer/video games, or by being incredibly contrary and combative.

It seems like you're doing all you can do, short of the cold turkey aspect you mentioned. Does her doctor have anything to say about this (I'm assuming she has a primary care or a psychologist, as she has a diagnosis)? How about the psychologist/counselor at her school? There are loads of ADHD support groups all over the place (CHADD comes to mind right away) that might be able to help you. Maybe she could take drawing/art classes outside of school?
posted by cooker girl at 12:21 PM on January 10

You're going to have to wean her slowly into finding ways to ignore her desire for instant mental distraction and gratification. I don't want to make too many assumptions, but based on the circumstances, it seems that she has a lot of things to work through, and the distraction of popular culture is very alluring when you have a lot of emotional pain and confusion screaming loudly in your head. Quiet moments and things that require concentration or focus can be so scary as to become unbearable for a kid who is used to chaos.

I think the best thing that you can do is encourage her to do things she likes to do, and things that she may learn to like, by asking her to do them for very, very short periods of time. "Sure, you can watch some television, but you need to read, draw or paint for fifteen minutes."

Sounds like she is very, very lucky to have you.
posted by pazazygeek at 12:24 PM on January 10

This may sound harsh, but it's not meant to:
Just because she says she's not interested in extra-curriculars doesn't mean she doesn't have to do any. She's young enough that you can get her involved. Give her a choice of as many reasonable options as you can think of. Set a rule that she has to do something, say, 2 days a week after school. Is there an affordable community art class she could do? Is she crafty - with an interest in making jewelry, playing with Sculpey, knitting, crocheting, etc.? Dance classes in the genre of her choice could be a great outlet for her. Obviously, you don't have to drag her in if she's kicking and screaming, but some firm yet gentle guidance could be helpful.

I mean, at that age I hated practicing piano and would do anything to try to get out of it, but that simply wasn't allowed. I had to practice every day, and I wasn't allowed to quit. Once I turned 15, it became my favorite thing to do, and once I got to college, I majored in piano. So I'm one of those annoying grown-ups who advocates having kids do things that they wouldn't necessarily choose to do themselves.
posted by bassjump at 12:30 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

I wonder if signing her up for a film making class would interest her? She could make her own visual entertainment and it might get her out of that passive mode.
You might have better luck with non-team sports, horseback riding & rock climbing seem popular.
posted by BoscosMom at 12:36 PM on January 10

One thing I'd like to state (and seeing as we're all on MeFi, I think everyone can agree) is that computers and the internet are not inherently bad--I spend a ridiculous amount of time online every day, but I've learned a lot of very useful things too. Of course, it all depends on what she's doing on there, and it sounds like her time isn't being spent that well. I don't really know how you could encourage her to do "smart" things online, though.

If she likes TV so much, perhaps she could explore making the content herself? Making movies is one thing I've personally always loved to do and never get enough time to do so. Maybe you could encourage her to "make her own TV shows".
posted by DMan at 12:40 PM on January 10

Along the lines of what BoscosMom said, turning computer time to a more educational, creative time would be a great idea. She likes to draw? Try finding a game or program which strengthens visual and kinesthetic skills. Since she has a knack for these now and she is already comfortable using a computer so she could really take to it.

Taking her inherent interests and engaging her with them will hopefully get her out of this passive media consumer funk.

best of luck.
posted by munchingzombie at 12:47 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

As much as I hate the ubiquitous nature of tvs and am willing to make a value judgment about them in my own life, if she simply in some way 'needs' the presence of the television for the noise and images as she does other things (as you describe the video gaming and drawing) then perhaps this isn't a battle you need to have?

You have no idea how much it pains me to type that, as it is my job in the house to walk along behind my darling girlfriend and turn off televisions that are not being watched, but the reality is that some people just like noise audible and/or visual companionship in a way I do not. Personally I love a quiet house. My girlfriend likes the tv. An old roommate of mine would turn on the stereo even if she wasn't listening to anything in particular.

I don't know if there's a downside to this kind of living/learning (beyond the fact that schools aren't necessarily accommodating to it - she's going to have to learn to perform on tests in a quiet room so if she doesn't learn to work without noise she's going to have an issue) but I do know that I (and perhaps you?) have a gut negative reaction to it that isn't necessarily based in any fact. So, were I you, I'd try to be mindful of my bias before I took too many conflict-causing steps.

Beyond that, I think your time limits sound like good ones. If she actually likes the tv for something other than companionship then providing her an incentive to ration her watching to when she's actually going to pay attention to it. If you think providing noise w/o visuals has some positive value (I'm inclined to think so, though I am unburdened by evidence or knowledge) then perhaps you could let her play the stereo for audio companionship as much as she likes while keeping the TV rationed.

Or perhaps invest in a few educational-esque DVDs like the Planet Earth series or others and allow her to run that kind of thing all she likes but keep the limits on broadcast material. If she watches them, great, if she just uses them for background noise, well, at least they're less insipid and she'll subliminally pick up facts rather than a demand for breakfast cereal.

Or get stuff for free. The Pima County Library has a lot of AV materials and when I searched for "DVD" in the "Audio Visual" category I got over 1500 in-stock items, including How to Draw Comics the Marvel Comics Way. I also saw BBC programs WEATHER and VOLCANO just to name two.
posted by phearlez at 12:47 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]

maybe she could earn her tv/internet time with extracurriculars? in other words, she can "buy" an hour of tv with an hour of sports or dance, or "buy" rights to watch a particular show if she reads a book or a certain number of chapters. or whatever formula works for you (i don't know how many extracurriculars you can support, but whatever works).
posted by thinkingwoman at 12:47 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

You could always setup a "read to watch" policy. Tell her she can watch as much tv as she reads. So if she sits down next to you and reads for thirty minutes, she can watch tv for thirty minutes. You can even make up a little time chart, which she can color in or mark with your approval to denote how much tv time she's earned through reading. Hopefully, then, while she's working to earn more time on the tube, she'll learn to enjoy reading.

Also, do you live somewhere you can take her outside at all? Any woods or park areas? Depending on where you live (weather), you could try taking her fishing, flying a kite, just activities that are outside of the house (less reason for her to keep on thinking, "I could be in my room watching something right now!).
posted by Atreides at 12:47 PM on January 10

More for you than for her, but you might find this report of some use. It's called "Media Multitasking Among American Youth: Prevalence, Predictors and Pairings", and it's got a lot of info about how much time kids spend listening to music while watching TV, or watching TV while IM-ing friends online, and so on. It is not by any stretch a rare phenomenon, nor is it limited to kids with ADD/ADHD.*

That said: you're the parent, effectively, so you can, and should, make her do some extracurricular stuff. I think the filmmaking idea is fantastic, if something like that is available where you are. I was dead scared of doing new things when I was that age, and if my mom hand't made me do some stuff, I never would have found out that I like this, or don't like that.

*I work for the foundation that produced this report, and was involved in its production, though not its writing or research. There are more reports about kids and families and media use here.
posted by rtha at 12:54 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

She's 11.

Eleven!

As mentioned above, take the computer out of her room, put it somewhere public. Set up a system where she is allowed a certain amount of time if (and only if) certain tasks have been completed.

This is unfair. You are rotten. You don't want her to have any fun. Yeah, yeah yeah. She will be mad at you for weeks. Months! But in one month, maybe she'll have spent 30 hours in front of the thing instead of 90.

If she doesn't like to read or play outside, then it's up to her to decide what to do instead. You are offering her freedom, not enslaving her, no matter what she thinks.

Probably she'll start trying to spend more time at friends' houses so she can watch THEIR TV. Watch out for this.

And yes, what bassjump said. Lay out a selection of activities. Let her know that she will be taking one, and that she has first pick. If she refuses to pick, then YOU get to pick. She'll hate it at first but it's almost inevitable that she'll get over it. And even if she doesn't at least her habit of watching TV will be interrupted.
posted by hermitosis at 12:55 PM on January 10

See I think it really depends on what she is watching. There are lots of quality educational or interesting programs on TV that can help influence her. But I do agree it's good for her to get outside with the other kids and learn to appreciate nature. Otherwise I agree with BoscosMom. If you can't beat it, you might as well embrace it.
posted by thetenthstory at 12:56 PM on January 10

Your problem is that your niece is not happy, not that she watches too much TV. She already dislikes school, and I find it hard to see how pushing her to stop doing something that helps her forget about it for a while is going to make her feel better.

My suggestion would be to try to cultivate her sense of self confidence and security so that she will be more comfortable pushing herself a bit harder. She needs to know that she'll be loved whatever mistakes she makes. Encourage her to develop a sense of humor about problems, and the ability to laugh at herself. Try to create a relaxed atmosphere at home. When she feels better about life, the TV thing will take care of itself. Pushing the "TV makes you stupid" thing is just another message that her achievements matter more than her happiness.

I don't have kids, but I was an anxious and unhappy teen (age 11-16 was the worst time of my life), and spent 90% of my time at home indulging in one form of escapism or another. These comments are based on what I think would have helped me.

Good luck with whatever you guys decide to do, I agree with pazazygeek that your niece is lucky to have you.
posted by teleskiving at 1:03 PM on January 10 [10 favorites]

I was a latch key kid from middle school on. I would get home from school, make a snack, turn on the tv, eat my snack, then do homework while i watched ducktales and rescue rangers and so on. i liked having it on in the background. i still like having it on in the background. just as noise. i find it helps me (and probably did then too) keep from spacing out because the part of my mind that would be spacing out is instead focusing on the tv while the other part is working on homework (or whatever i do now).

the same could be true of your child, since you mention she draws and does other stuff while watching tv.

i don't think watching tv or playing on the internet is inherently bad, as long as she's watching/browsing things that are appropriate for her age.

are there specific shows she misses and is torn up about, or is it the fact of the tv itself? if the latter, throw on some national geographic videos or something to that effect.

i think from the questions you've posted here you're doing a great job as a parent.

oh, and please, please, please try to instill a love of reading in her. she can even do it while the tv is on (though softly, in the background). i just have never understood people who don't read.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 1:14 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

I've only skimmed the comments here, but I think there are some great ideas -- I like the idea of having her pick an extracurricular, regardless of her stance that she doesn't want to. As others have said, she doesn't have to be a cheerleader or join the swim team; maybe there's an art or photography club that will give her an outlet for her talents on that score. Or, since she likes music, what about an instrument?

Having said that, maybe my memories of being a bit of a TV/music addict at the same age might perhaps be helpful shed a little light on the emotional impulses behind it.

I was her age in the early '80s, so there obviously was no YouTube, iPod, etc. whatsoever. What there was, though, was MTV -- and I watched it for hours. Hours and hours and hours and hours and hours; my parents finally got rid of cable when I was in 9th grade because that was the only way to break me from the endless hours in front of the TV.

Because I was also really into music (especially alternative stuff not readily available on mainstream radio/TV) I was on some level actually scared not to watch because I didn't want to miss anything. I mean, what if MTV showed some ultra-rare Clash or Jam video and I missed it?!?! The very thought struck terror into my 13-year-old heart! Without my bands, I was nothing! So I was hooked on that constant potential promise of the next video being really rewarding... and the next... and the next.

It was also just sheer escapism, because I wasn't happy in junior high either, although I did do well in school and had extracurriculars and read a lot. Because obviously, the fantasy of running around London inciting revolution with my co-boyfriends, Joe Strummer and Paul Weller, was exactly one million times better than the reality of living in Ft. Collins, Colorado, surrounded by Journey fans who teased me for being weird.

So though this situation doesn't sound exactly parallel to mine -- I mean, besides the fact that MTV doesn't even show music videos anymore (hey you kids get off my lawn, etc.) -- I wonder if there might be something a little similar going on here for your niece, besides the pleasure of visual stimulation she gets from TV. Does she watch particular shows that she really identifies with? Does she spend a lot of time talking about her shows with her friends? There just might be an emotional component underneath it all that you might be able to gently bring out and think about ways to address as well.
posted by scody at 1:19 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

If filmmaking is outside of your budget (it would be far outside of mine), maybe a cheap digital camera would give her something visually stimulating (but also creative to do). It also gets her up and moving around, because she'll want to find new things to photograph. She likes drawing, so other kinds of visual art are a natural next step. If she likes it, let her pick a few pictures a week and print them nicely with a photo printer and put them in an album.

FYI, I'm not sure what an 11 year old is supposed to do outside of the house, in a backyard, by herself. She's far past the stage when kids can amuse themselves by sitting around in the grass or digging up dirt.

Oh, and some people don't like to read. That doesn't mean they suck or that they're stupid. They just don't like to read. She'll have to read for school anyway so no reason to force her to do it at home, too. (This might be why she hates school).
posted by sondrialiac at 1:33 PM on January 10

My oldest son is smart as a whip, loves TV, ipod and videogames, and is also shy, so we had to push him a little on the extracurricular thing. Okay, we made him do it. It was important for scholarships, etc., but it has been very good for him. He joined a weekly study group after school and is on the robotics team. You may have to figure out which extracurricular activities she would be in if she had to choose one or two, and just bite the bullet and sign her up.
posted by misha at 1:35 PM on January 10

Response from the OP:

I have to say that I'm amazed by the variety of suggestions. Thanks!

I also have to say that I'm concerned about changing things too abruptly for her, as she has already been through a lot. Kids are resilient, I know; but come on... going from a home with absolutely no structure to one that has even moderate structure is still quite a change.

Since it was asked, it's possible that TV is on for noise, except that she spends more time watching and re-watching the same shows again and again (basically, anything with talking animals: Pokemon, Back to the Barnyard, Kenny the Shark). [By the way, we've tried to get her interested in more "substantial" animation -- we've already introduced her to Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away, for instance -- and I have watched the shows with her so I can talk intelligently about somethings he's interested in.] It's possible that she's looking at the cartoons for insight into her drawing; but that still doesn't explain her lack of affect when she watches them.

But basically, when she does just sit and watch the TV/computer, she will sit there, mouth slightly agape, not laughing or showing any signs of amusement. You often can't tell if she's watching a show or a commercial because both are equally engrossing to her. She is completely oblivious to the world around her, yet she doesn't seem to be entertained at all.

"Escapism" is ringing pretty accurate for me, gut-feeling-wise.
posted by parilous at 1:45 PM on January 10

You could try creating a TV bank. I was a bit younger, but my parents limited us to 2 hours of tv a day, but they let us save time during the week. I ended up banking more and more TV time, until my mother freaked out and thought I'd actually indulge in a 72 hour bout of non-stop tv consumption, at which point she cancelled the arrangement.
posted by Good Brain at 2:00 PM on January 10

Would manga interest her, maybe? An askme about good titles for near her age is here.
posted by gnomeloaf at 2:16 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

Do you know for sure that her poor academic performance is due to too much time in front of the TV? If she enjoys the tube that much, you may just be putting extra stress on whatever is the actual cause of her bad grades. FWIW, I pretty much cut my teeth on a channel selector. My dad put a TV in our kitchen (circa 1964) long before it was common, and it was on not only during meals but also while I did my homework at the kitchen table. Most of my peers also watched a lot of TV, as I recall most of the playground discussions were always about what we'd seen on Laugh-In or The Monkees the night before. I guess I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, but I really don't see TV as the villain here. This child has had some major upheavals in her life, and if TV keeps her happy, and she's drawing and being creative while the TV is on, then she's using her mind and not just wasting away into a vegetable. Besides, it might give her a common bond with her classmates, which might in turn help her to like school better.

Since it was asked, it's possible that TV is on for noise, except that she spends more time watching and re-watching the same shows again and again
I do this even today; if I Love Lucy or The Golden Girls are on, I'll watch, even though I know the dialog by heart. And, as it turns out, I now earn my living by knowing trivial facts about classic TV shows.

If you're concerned about her lack of interest in reading, try getting her books about the TV shows that she likes, like Pokemon and "the making of" the cartoons, etc. And what is "substantial" animation? You are inflicting your own likes/dislikes on her; why can't she just enjoy Pokemon without being made to feel there is something wrong with it, it's not "good enough"?
posted by Oriole Adams at 2:27 PM on January 10

Put parental controls on the TV so that you have final say so on what and when she gets to watch. As others suggested, your niece has to earn the PRIVILEGE of TV time. It's not a right, and she needs to understand that. If she has a TV or computer in her room, I would definitely remove it and put it into a more shared/public area of your home. Another option would be to give her a pared down computer with extremely limited software. Maybe only a text writer for journaling, and some sort of low budget beginner art or DTP software for her to fool around with. But absolutely no internet access. If she needs that for school, well you and your spouse/partner need to be there and oversee it.

Do you have a regular routine for her once she's home from school? Or does she simply become a couch barnacle once she gets off the bus until dinner is ready? Hell, if it would help, consider getting her a dog. It doesn't need to be a puppy - go get a pound or rescue dog. They're so awesome and have so much to offer. It would force her to get out of the house for walks, she'd have a set of responsibilities and expectations that have something to do with another living being, and it would give her a companion.

I'm thinking that your niece may be a very lonely little girl and the TV may be a way of zoning out. If, as you say, she's undergone such a major upheaval in her life, I could completely understand how she might not be entirely settled. FWIW, I was never good at sports or extra curricular activities. I wasn't one of the 'cool kids', and this was way before computers, etc. So, I can sympathise with your niece a little bit.

Have you looked into art classes since you say she's into drawing? You could probably find some cheap ones after school. Maybe she could branch out into painting or some other medium. First, it would keep her mind/hands busy. Second, it would give her something to be proud of and help her advance her gift.

One other consideration - have you thought about maybe introducing her to Podcasts or recorded books? Less brain rot, but still some background noise.

Good luck.
posted by dancinglamb at 2:29 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

Even as an adult, I get so sucked in to the TV that I had to just give it up totally. There's something really wonderful, especially during difficult periods, about being able to completely turn off one's mind. You're doing the right thing by setting limits to how much she can watch, but I don't think there's anything intrinsically awful about giving her a way to just zone out for an hour or whatever -- so long as you are there to turn it off.

Audiobooks might be a slightly higher-brow form of escapism -- many libraries have them, the Harry Potter ones are good -- and she can listen and draw at the same time. Comics might also work to draw her into reading, or making her own.

If she's having a hard time fitting in at school -- and who doesn't at age 11 -- maybe finding classes or activities with a different group of kids might help. Eg art classes at the community center, or youth theater (she could be a set designer or lighting tech if she didn't want to perform). Many community centers will have filmmaking-type classes.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:41 PM on January 10

My first instinct was "you're the parent, just take it away!" but I really think you need to talk to an ADD expert here. I don't think a punitive approach is the way to go. My ADD fiance (who's 36) uses the TV to distract himself from the many competing thoughts in his brain. Apparently nothing else works as well. Often he uses it to fall asleep. I don't think a "normal-brained" person can come up with an alternative that will satisfy the ADD brain, because our brains are like apples and oranges. I would do some research into what other ADD kids do for fun. Perhaps there is some sort of support group or activity group for ADD kids in your area. With regards to reading, my fiance loved choose your own adventure books as a kid because he didn't have to sit and read it straight through, and it was engaging, not passive.

I don't mean to sound like she should only be defined by her ADD, but in my experience, it has a PROFOUND effect on daily habits, and I really don't think you can address those habits except through the lens of educating oneself about ADD. One important thing I've learned is that people with ADD often can't process the long-term consequences of their actions. You can produce scientific studies ad infinitum about the damage she's doing to her brain, and it won't register, because she's thinking about RIGHT NOW. The linear thought process does often not apply to people with ADD. Only short-term consequences/rewards seem to work, for example "We're leaving for the ice cream shop in 5 minutes, turn off the TV!"
posted by desjardins at 2:59 PM on January 10

I was one of those latch key kids above that loved TV, well into my 20s. I turned it on when I felt alone.

And then, I couldn't afford it. At all. I went cold turkey without it. A year later, I added it back into my life. But it's certainly not the time suck and focus it once was. But when I use the term "cold turkey," I mean it. I was restless, anxious, moody, etc. It was worse than quitting smoking.

To this day, I have music or NPR on all the time. But because it doesn't keep me completely transfixed, I can do the dishes, move around, work, etc. Does she have a radio? A CD player?

My daughter is eight. She has a combined screentime budget. That means an hour a day divided however she chooses between the TV, the computer, the DS, etc. It works really well, although I do have to pay serious attention to keep her honest.

I suggest starting with a screen budget. Move three hours of TV into three hours for everything. Give her the opportunity to roll over hours when she has something to do other than TV in a night. Use a timer with a pause button to keep everyone honest/paying attention. Good grades, etc., etc. can earn her more time to be redeemed later. I'd also get her something that's audio stimulation to make the situation less painful/cold turkey.

Guess what? It's OK if she's bored. (This was really, really hard for me to deal with for my kid, so I know it's not easy.) Seriously. Bored is not your problem. It's hers. If she's got paper to draw on, books in her room, a radio or CD player and CDs from the library, she'll find a way to occupy herself. If she doesn't learn how to self entertain without a TV, she's got a whole long life of being bored with life. Not a great thing for the self esteem in any case.

My kid brain, however, is screaming, "forced after school activities suck." Sure, you can make her do something with her time, even help her pick something out. But if she hates school, volunteering somewhere would be a lot better than having to spend more time with the stupid schoolmates you already hate and hate you back. (Being an 11-year-old girl already sucks.)
posted by Gucky at 3:15 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

Not sure it's relevant- different sexes and different ages- but... anecdotal: a friend who works with 14 & 15 year old boys who are in group homes, etc. says cutting refined sugars out of their diets makes a huge difference in their ADHD.

After that comes enough exercise, and after that comes enough sleep. Or maybe it was sleep and then exercise. I forget. If nothing changes after all those are in order? Well, they're probably stuck needing meds.
posted by small_ruminant at 3:18 PM on January 10

Also: why doesn't she like school? Are you serious?
posted by small_ruminant at 3:18 PM on January 10

I used to watch TV from morning to night from when I was a young kid until I was about 15. As an adult, I haven't watched TV in years and years. Like 15 years.

Think of it as innoculation and let her watch the TV.
posted by dydecker at 3:32 PM on January 10

Instead of trying to break what you presume to be an addiction, try to figure out what draw she's getting from these sources -- an insatiable desire for knowledge, for instance -- and find other outlets you feel more comfortable pursuing. And then figure out what your problem with the Internet is. Because you're asking the Internet.
posted by vanoakenfold at 4:47 PM on January 10

I'm quite certain that my mother would have asked a question just like yours if there was an internet back in the day and, admittedly, I am ADD as all get out, performed in an exceptionally unmotivated way at school and watched a load of TV. I'm OK with the way things are in my life today, but I know I'd be happier if I hadn't made a bunch of bad ADD coping strategies such an integral part of my lifestyle early on.

I wasn't on meds in my youth but now kind of wish I was. When my job became more about reports and less about working in the lab I finally broke down and got on Concerta. Going through college staring at blank sheets of paper until drops of blood appear on your forehead is no fun.

By the time decent home computers arrived on the scene I found myself spending a load of time playing computer games and am sure I had the same vacant expression on my face as you describe. The games I tended to gravitate towards were things that required a huge amount of metal effort like Civilization. It was a zero cost, zero consequence activity but it was high stimulus. I think I'm a different type of ADD than she is, but I suspect some of the same sort of things are going on in her head as were in mine.

I think a lot of what Teleskiving said is right on target. TV or the internet or whatever is not necessarily the battle you need to have. From things you've said, she's got some issues she needs to get beyond and it's a lot easier to watch TV and not think about the things that bother you. She seems to have more than a healthy level of apprehension about people in general, which is probably not going to serve her well in the long run. If it's what'd driving her not liking to be outside (and from some of what you said in the school bus thing, it may well be) then it's not serving her well right now.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:08 PM on January 10

I wouldn't go all judgmental on her, but I think there are some practical steps you can take that will help her, not break the habit, but to *understand* the habit:

She should not have any screens in her room, including iPod video, computer, tv. If she has a video iPod right now, trade it down to a non-video one. All screens should be in public areas of the house. This is THE most effective thing you can do to keep her from divorcing herself from the life of the household, plus it'll keep her off unsafe internet sites (because you might walk by). Password protect the computer. We did this with our kids until they were 18, and they actually used to have us CHANGE the password if they accidentally figured it out.

Watch with her. Sit there with her, especially during her favorite shows and see what she is seeing. Talk to her about the shows. (I will say that if she is watching something that you found absolutely distateful or out of synch with your own values, I think you have the right to tell her she cannot watch that. She'll end up watching it on the sneak and at friends' houses, but it will make her aware of the issue.)

Plan occasional family and "mother"-daughter/"father"-daughter outings (once a week? more?) during her tv time. If she freaks, record the shows she's missing as a concession. I'm betting pretty soon she won't care that much.

Have her invite friends over to watch with her.

If you need her to do something (chores, pertinent discussions, dinner) during a tv show, it must be a house rule that the tv is ALWAYS the least important thing she is doing. Let her negotiate one or two shows that you are not allowed to interupt.

I'm another one like the people up thread-- I leave the tv on for company. mr. nax calls it the "talking lamp." She might be using it that way.

Now, here's the really drastic thing-- consider just getting rid of the thing. If there are shows you want, frankly it's all right here on line. You don't really "need" a tv the way you used to.
posted by nax at 5:16 PM on January 10

If it's financially possible, look into additional art classes for her (after school?). I wasn't allowed to watch TV as a kid and so I read for escapism -- hours at a time, the same books over and over again. I suppose it improved my vocabulary but more useful to my self-esteem and developing sense of purpose would have been art classes. (I'm in my 30s and still angry that no adult took my artistic interests seriously.) She may not want to potentially corrupt her love of drawing by learning about what she's doing wrong, but pursuing painting or clay could be perfect for her.
posted by xo at 5:40 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

I don't know if you're still reading this thread, but I want to second the suggestion to get her started playing an instrument - and not the piano (too solitary). If there's a band program at school, find out which instruments are played by the students in the band, and ask her which of those she might be interested in learning. Band kids are often the "square peg in the round hole" types who are smart, artistic, and interesting people - in other words, kids much like your niece. If she likes popular music, suggest one of the brass instruments like trumpet or saxophone, which will give her an opportunity to play in a jazz band eventually. At least around here, jazz band kids are cool.

I'd also take her to an art museum, and see if a local art center may have lessons for adolescents. If she starts to take lessons and does something with her art, she might be encouraged to join an art club at school (hello band members! I didn't know that you were interested in art too!).

It strikes me that she's probably loathe to join clubs or activities right now because she's the new kid in town, and feels intimidated. If she has some know-how under her belt, she might be more amenable to clubs and after-school activities.

Good luck!
posted by Flakypastry at 5:42 AM on January 11

I'm very much still reading this thread and I just have a couple of clarifications (conclusions?):

* We've already gotten rid of cable. Now she watches too much YouTube and will do so for hours and hours. I will definitely work on moving the computer out to the living area (she occupies what was once my office; the computer in there was my computer) to monitor what she's viewing.

* We can't afford private music lessons and it's already mid-year. How could she possibly be in band now? I will take that under advisement for middle school. She was in band previously (she played drums) and hated it; perhaps because her mom played drums. In any case, that doesn't prevent me from buying her a keyboard or something and let her play around with it.

* We are planning on having her play soccer in middle school -- given that she has some pent-up frustrations with no outlet, perhaps a high-energy contact sport would do her good.

* I won't go any further into the discussion about the evils of TV. What I've found works for her is when I have short, pointed questions about something specific that troubles me and let her brain mull it over. (I used this tactic with Pokemon, and how I didn't like the show because it was based on trainers sending animals to fight in their place, under the guise of competition.)

* I'm not her parent and only have four months' of bonding with her. It's hard for me to fall back on "you're her parent" as an excuse for imposing limitations. I don't know why I feel this way, but I would prefer small changes (as opposed to abrupt ones, canceling cable notwithstanding -- but at least she had some notice to watch all her stuff recorded on the DVR).

* Thanks for the ideas about things to do, but it's obvious that, unless I have a plan for every waking minute of her day (thus keeping me from having any free time of my own), her default activity at home will ALWAYS be to watch TV on the computer. What I want to know is how do I change this? I like the idea of having her earn TV/computer time and will be looking for ways to implement that (especially to give her additional time on the weekends).
posted by parilous at 9:08 AM on January 11

Oh, I forgot to add: I really REALLY like the idea of the film class. My digital camera takes video, so I can teach her to edit it on the computer. It's interactive, teaches her a skill, and produces a positive, tangible result (unlike endless hours of TV).

So, I'm marking that as the best answer.
posted by parilous at 9:11 AM on January 11

You sound like you are doing so well in what is clearly a difficult situation, and like you've really thought it through. I wouldn't worry too much about tv (and other screen) watching being her default activity-- I think that's probably true for half the population!

So two kind of opposing things-- yes, you probably would have to plan out her activities very very closely at least at first, so maybe just reconcile yourself to that. Conversely, hold off on all this maybe at least until summer. You talk about taking small steps, which I think is a good approach. She's just had one HUGE change in her life, and it had to have been wrenching for everyone. Maybe her brain needs the "chill time" that tv is giving her. So maybe at this point, you could make those steps very very small.

G-d bless you. Think about putting together a post in the blue about this issue of taking on guardianship within a family. I for one would be very interested in reading about this.
posted by nax at 11:26 AM on January 11

nax has a good point. When I was her age (ahem- and up through my 20s) and some big change hit I would disappear into novels for days. When I was up for it, I'd un-turtle and rejoin civilization until the next shock.

(In my opinion, despite their PR to the contrary, novels aren't preferable to TV except that they're less annoying to one's housemates. Once you've got reading down pat, they're just as brainless.)
posted by small_ruminant at 6:42 PM on January 11

Update from the OP: A month later,

• We still watch some TV (via the internet), but they are targeted episodes and only take up about 4 hours a week.


• We continue to try to plan something for at least one day of the weekend where we are outside doing stuff that doesn't require TV. I also shop sales for craft-type items so we have "rainy day" things to do.


• She has been making videos using her iDog and Pokemon figurines, which I have dutifully uploaded to YouTube. I have encouraged her to make more, but she's "tired of doing it right now".


• I also try to close the cabinet that contains the TV so we're not reminded of it. (She hasn't really missed it, though.)


• We are saving ourselves $85 a month.

A wonderful aside: since the beginning of the new year, my niece has been bringing home grades on quizzes and tests of 70-100%, up from the 30-60% she was getting last quarter. However, it's probably not all attributable to removing TV because, at the same time, we changed two other things in my niece's life: (1) re-started her on an AD(H)D medication, and (2) offered monetary incentive for test scores of 80% and above.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.
posted by parilous at 9:07 AM on February 19