Will the PowerShot Meet My New Camera Needs?

January 7, 2008 12:31 PM

I have never owned a digital camera, and am finally ready to get one. I am in love with PowerShots. Except though I'm new and clueless about photography now, I would eventually like to not be and I've heard the lack of zoom in compact cameras will become a problem. So are there any compact cameras out there with sufficient zoom function?

I love, love, love the compactness of the Powershots. I love the image stabilization. I love the ability to record movies (I don't need high-quality movies, but I like to be able to record quick movies). But a photographer friend of mine said if I am serious about eventually developing photography skills, I should not get a PowerShot for my first camera as, among other things, it won't have sufficient zoom capabilities.

So are there any compact cameras that will be easy for newbie hands, have image stabilization, and be able to zoom more? If not, what not-compact camera would you recommend (budget is $200-$400)? Or is my cluelessness showing through and zoom not even an issue?

posted by schroedinger to technology (20 comments total)

Er, in this case I am talking about the PowerShot S/SD "Elph" series.
posted by schroedinger at 12:33 PM on January 7, 2008

I'd have to say buy an Elph if you love it - it's so small that you'll probably always have it for those social occasions, and for when that UFO lands on the building across the street. If you ever get super serious about photography, you'll probably end up buying an SLR anyway. Most serious hobbyists have a compact and an SLR anyway.
posted by Calloused_Foot at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2008

I love my little Powershot. In fact, I am on my third one and I have bought 2 others for family members. I think that it is an excellent choice.

If you are looking for a camera that can grow with your photography skills, I also recommend the Pentax K110D. It is in your price range but lacks the image stabilization. However, you can purchase additional lenses for it and I've had no problems with it whatsoever. If you are willing to spend a bit more, Pentax does offer image stabilization on the camera that's the next step up. I have the Pentax, as well, and I've enjoyed it. I tend to keep the powershot in my pocket or car for impromptu shots and bring the larger Pentax along when I know I am going to have more photo ops.
posted by Ostara at 12:42 PM on January 7, 2008

No cheap-and-small camera's going to have a really serious zoom capacity. Also, I'd strongly disagree that the lack of zoom is a big deal. If anything, most photographers consider overuse of zoom lenses by photo-newbies to be a crutch.

That's not to say an Elph is a good starting camera for serious work - it's far too low on manual controls, and gets incredibly bad really fast in low-light conditions. If you really want a cheap way of being able to take serious photos, something like the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ8 (12x zoom, great lens, very good manual controls for something this cheap) is your best bet. (Yes, I just said zoom can be a crutch, but it's still nice to have the range - I'm just saying that i don't think a 3x zoom range automatically disqualifies a camera by any means. I spend most of my time with a lens on my SLR that covers the roughly same effective zoom range as the Elph's zoom.)

Note that lower-light capacity is going to suck hugely in anything less than a full digital SLR, but the increase in size and cost is way more than what you're looking at.
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:43 PM on January 7, 2008

Premise-questioning: I really, really, really don't think that you need high zoom capability to develop photography skills. The small sensor size and ensuing huge depth-of-field is far more of a problem and not something you can fix without moving up to an SLR of some sort. There are already a thousand "What SLR should I buy?" questions so I'll skip that aspect entirely.

The Powershot A720 IS has a max effective focal length of 210mm, which is longer than most amateur photography enthusiasts will have in their lens collection. On the smaller side, the SD700 tops out at 140mm, which is still pretty long. There's really nothing to worry about here.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:44 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

I had a S110 (well I guess I still have it and ocassional use) and you are right they are wonderful cameras for the size. However zoom is overrated on compact cameras. You never get much zoom when the camera is so small anyways. With high megapixel cameras you can always crop after the fact.

But keep in mind, if you really want to get into photography you are going to be limited by any compact camera's flash. Don't let this dissuade you from the Elph because the portability of the camera will mean you can always have it with you. My S110 literally fit in my front jeans pocket and the more recent models are smaller. The best way to learn is to actually take pictures and you need to have the camera with you to take pictures. Once you master what you can do with the compact then you can consider a high end point and shoot (which will have the ability to have external flashes and lots of manual controls) or a low end SLR as Calloused_Foot suggests.
posted by mmascolino at 12:49 PM on January 7, 2008

My wife and I love our Canon PowerShot A720is. It’s a little bulky but we like it because it's simple enough for me and has tons of features for my wife. She likes the wheel of features on top so she doesn't have to hunt through a bunch of menus (similar to the elph.)

The best part about this "A" series is that you can eventually attach different lenses or get an underwater case, but its not a super bulky professional looking camera with a bunch of bells and whistles that you'll never figure out how to use. This camera is perfect for the everyday user (me) and the intermediate photo artist (my wife). I think it's the perfect camera to grow with your abilities, and it's still considered compact, a little bulky, but compact none the less.
posted by thewalrusispaul at 12:52 PM on January 7, 2008

Eh, don't let your friend's warning completely turn you off of getting an Elph. I got an s500 in 2004 and these days I'm a pretty serious amateur photographer with all the pro equipment. You can develop your photographic eye with an Elph, and like you said, their size can't be beat. In fact, I still use mine sometimes when I don't feel like lugging my big stuff around.

That said, like others have mentioned, if you're looking to learn the basics of photography like aperture and shutter speed, you'll want to look into cameras with more manual controls available to you. I did find the lack of zoom a limiting factor after a while, but more than that, the lack of shutter speed and aperture control became a problem. If you get an Elph and need more, you can always upgrade later!
posted by geeky at 12:54 PM on January 7, 2008

BTW - I have the 570IS, the downscale version of the 710/720IS and I love it. It's not as nicely dressed as the Elph, but it's got manual controls and accessories, like thewalrusispaul mentioned.
posted by Calloused_Foot at 1:02 PM on January 7, 2008

Also, typically these small cameras are used hand-held. Big zoom + hand held = blur, except on the brightest daylight shots. I know the 10x zoom sounds appealing, but it's not terribly useful on a compact, unless you're ready to start using a tripod.
posted by knave at 1:03 PM on January 7, 2008

I think the real question you have to ask yourself is this: what, exactly, is the goal of buying this camera?

If you are hoping to immediately start taking photography very seriously, and really start learning a lot about it, the Elph series isn't a good choice -- not because of zoom capabilities (which are, honestly, meaningless when it comes to learning), but because it isn't great in low light, is incapable of producing anything but massive depth of field, and has next to no manual controls. The only thing you can really learn with that kind of camera is general composition.

If, however, you are hoping to simply play with it a lot and eventually learn what it does and does not do right, it's not a bad starter. It has some serious technical flaws, from a serious photography standpoint, but it's also dead simple to have on you all the time. So, you will get the opportunity to really play with it quite a lot.

One of my first digital cameras was an S100, back when my exposure to photography was mostly just shooting my dad's film SLRs at family outings and the occasional playing around with one of his older disc film cameras. I think I learned a decent amount with it about what photography is, including the portions that it was not capable of handling. It led me to buy a series of better options, until I finally settled on a DSLR (shooting the same lenses but newer body to this day).

So, for me, the Elph series actually was a good starter for my photography career; however, it didn't last long for serious photography, and within a year or so was relegated to "portable, good for snapshots".

I will leave you with this: if your goal is the first one I mentioned, I cannot stress enough: zoom is meaningless. What is going to teach you about photography is a camera that has manual controls and a big enough sensor that you can actually play with DoF. Even if it is fixed-focal length, you will learn more about photography from it than you ever could with the latest whiz-bang 20x super-zoom compact digicam with no manual controls and a sensor 1/4th the size of a postage stamp.
posted by tocts at 1:14 PM on January 7, 2008

I saw a good personal site by a photographer who picked out his favourites (DSLR, compact, subcompact). Ah, got it: Ken Rockwell. He likes the SDs and the Casio Exilim EX-V8, and likes the Canon A5xx even more.

The sub-compacts now tend to have decentish zooms, but the real sticking points are the lack of manual controls and low-light performance. They can't match, say, the Canon A-series for overrides and tweakability, which come close to the best bang/buck, at the cost of pocketability.

Frankly, the days of digital zoom in sub-$200 subcompacts are fading away. But as others have said, zoom is overrated: I still love my old 35mm Contax T2 with its fixed-length lens, and the Ricoh GR Digital takes some fine photos. The good thing about the ELPH is that you'll have no excuse not to keep it on hand, and that, more than zoom or manual settings, will help you take better pictures. Zoom with your feet.
posted by holgate at 1:20 PM on January 7, 2008

I just bought the Panasonic TZ3. It is the only small camera with 10x optical zoom. It may not be the best overall camera, but if you want a small camera with great zoom, this is your choice.
posted by alkupe at 1:41 PM on January 7, 2008

FYI most cameras that offer both digital zoom and image stabilization don't do both at the same time. With digital zoom the IS is off.

And most "serious" photographers started with a normal lens (50mm lens on a 35mm camera) The 3x zoom on most compact digitals ought to be more than enough. As a beginner you need to concentrate on composure, exposure and, erasure...(Just my way of saying that you need to take LOTS of pictures and learn to edit.)
posted by Gungho at 1:43 PM on January 7, 2008

The zoom isn't what you need to worry about the most. If you really want to learn about the nuts and bolts of photography, manual control of shutter speed, aperture, focus, etc. I use the Olympus SP500 UZ - which actually does have a 10x optical zoom - and I actually use the zoom relatively rarely. The manual controls, on the other hand, have been great, and I'm now saving up to get a dSLR. I suspect I'll keep using the SP500 UZ, though. It's not an ultracompact camera, but it's small enough to easily toss in a bag, and has enough controls to be usable in a great many situations. With a steady hand and/or something to lean against, I've had absolutely no trouble with night shots. (Check the flickr link in my profile if you're curious about the quality of photos.) At the same time, it was certainly beginner-friendly: you can automate pretty much everything, use "scene" modes to simplify settings, etc.

The newer version - the SP510 UZ - would definitely be worth checking out, though. It's definitely in your price range, and has some improved features (higher ISO range, more megapixels, image stabilization, etc.) over my older model. And hey, it does have lots of optical zoom, too. It - or similar ultrazoom cameras by other companies - would provide you with all the tools necessary to really get into photography without too much trouble.
posted by ubersturm at 2:17 PM on January 7, 2008

I waited a good seven years before buying a digital camera. I followed a lot of articles, and was even recommending Elphs to people before I got one for myself. My friends and I have not been disappointed at all. Great camera, great size, great photos.
posted by furtive at 3:15 PM on January 7, 2008

I was just about to recommend a TZ3 myself—fairly slim and with a giant zoom. Panasonic sort of created the pocket zoom category with the TZ series, so competitors are few at the moment. DPReview gives it a fairly good review, though note the caveats with the camera's noise reduction.

All that said, the real question is why your friend seems so adamant that you have a large zoom range. It's convenient to have a large zoom range but certainly not crucial, even for pro photographers. There are other issues with long zooms on small cameras as well, such as the aforementioned shake problem. You may well find that for the photos you take, you'll wish you had a wider lens rather than a longer one; a common situation is taking a picture of a group of people in a confined space, and without a sufficiently wide lens you'll keep wanting to back up to fit everyone in, only to find you've run out of space. I can't think of many situations where you'll really wish you had a longer lens available, unless you're doing work for the CIA or something.

If you want to learn the trade, the same basic guidelines for your first camera apply today as they did before digital cameras were popular: reliable, easy to use, lots of manual controls so you begin to understand the relationship between aperture and shutter speed. In that respect, I'd probably go with one of the A-series Powershots, as they're both compact and jam-packed with manual exposure settings. An Elph is smaller and will take pictures almost as good, but without the manual controls you won't get a feel for shutter speeds and ISOs and f-stops. Plus an A-series is a camera you'll hang on to long after you've outgrown it as a primary camera; having a backup "for parties and walkabouts" camera that's decent is great when you don't feel like lugging that SLR around, and even pros have little cameras they keep on them at all times. After all, the best camera is the camera you have at the moment you need to take a photo.
posted by chrominance at 4:35 PM on January 7, 2008

I just bought the Panasonic TZ3. It is the only small camera with 10x optical zoom.

and

I was just about to recommend a TZ3 myself

As was I. I just got a TZ3 and I really like it so far. Interestingly enough, despite the high quality of th 10X optical zoom lens (by Leica), I find I'm even more impressed by how wide it is on the widest setting-- 28mm equivalent. MUCH more useful and interesting than a massive zoom, I have found.
posted by dersins at 4:51 PM on January 7, 2008

TZ3

It's everything everyone has said it is (and it has a Leica lens).
posted by wfc123 at 5:06 PM on January 7, 2008

Unless you particularly want a long zoom, simply forget about it. I got better pics by ignoring my compact's zoom and just running around.
posted by Magnakai at 5:39 PM on January 7, 2008