love, doubt, & alcohol : is it worth going back anyway ?

January 5, 2008 5:57 PM

love, doubt, & alcohol : is it worth going back anyway ?

Some of the things he said could make me think he deeply cared about me, but i could never tell when he was drunk, and not being an alcoholic myself, i do not know to what extent they are sincere /loving everybody / when drunk

i have learned not to trust very easily... so i have no idea if he would say such things to get physical reward or not.

I also know that one of his friends thought i was pretty funny and despised my beliefs.. and i heard of some pretty sad things such as making bets on girls etc.. on my campus.

I truly want to forget about him, because the thought of his existence is unbearable, since he was my first love, and raised issues in a way that i hadnt planned at all. On the other hand, all of my being yearns to just sit down and talk with him. But where to start ? he would probably get that im not over him 2 years later, if i still run after explanations. yet... if he cared about me, he may feel the same way as I do. he also told me (in the tree that night) that he had made it a rule not to run after people, because he doesnt want to cause any damage in people's lives. I simply cant get where his ethics stand.

Any insight ?Alcoholics : do they have feelings (sincere ones, ever ?) ? Most of my friends still are complete christians and advice me to avoid him by all means.

Long story ; drama and being 20.

2006 :

Me >>> Pretty good looking, original fun-loving always happy popular girl in college, just turned 19, virgin, newly converted fundy christian. (= what everyone who knew me, knew about).

>>>>> Formerly abused, a little traumatized, wants to stay away from physical stuff, formerly a severely depressed individual (= what i honestly would tell my boyfriends after a little while). Secret part = Coming from highly dysfunctionnal alcoholic violent family. Looking for platonic-fun-maybe more romantic relationship, that could lead to serious dating. quite open to physical experiences, as long as authentic feelings are there. Dead scared of being abused again.


Him >>> 25, 1st year of gradschool, psychology student, the hottest guy on campus, knows it, acts it. Has just come out of a 5yr long relationship, is looking for some light-hearted fun stylish girl. Enjoys the good aspects of lif, has sex, a lot, likes to party. Clever, confident (= what he shows).

>>>>>> Secret part i later found out = hasnt been sober since he was 12 (yes, 12). Has tried all drugs, has slept with an unnumerable amount of girls, is looking for Confident sex-loving girls, shares all the details with his group of friends, who definately doent inspire anyone (reputation, and personal contacts made it clear enough they werent the safest place for a girl).


Yet : he has this charm that only slightly alcoholic guys can have, the (sorry err) Johnny depp look and style in everything he does, the irresistible deep pirate voice, that "almost a loser but really could do great in life" touch to himself, that is once again irresistible.



The story :

>>> 2006 : We come across each other at my work (im a library assistant at university), love at first sight on my side 'aah the naiveté of yung years), good impression on his. He knows a friend of mine and asks for my number. next 3 days were on a date each and every night, talking for hours. mostly him, telling me his heart-breaking story,wich he punctuates with "hmm, im really shy, really silent in fact you know", which sounds completely wrong to me, as he almost talked nonstop for 5 hours once.

We go out together on the 3rd date, too early in my opinion, but his merely touching my hand triggered the most violent expression of emotion of my entire life. i literally felt the blood going up to my cheeks and felt myself blush within 2 seconds, and had difficulty breathing... It had to happen . A first in my life. It was magic at first.

We quickly move on, traditional scenario : he impresses me a lot : his age, his experience, his voice, his education level (2 years higher than mine), his past, hm, his elegance... All of it.

I slowly unwrap mine, my firm beliefs, that i kindda put to the side for him. We move on further, til i have to tell him i can't have sex because im dead scared, a virgin, and (just to check his intentions, i admit it was dumb) say "i deeply value marriage" and i insinuate that i may not do anything with a guy til then.

>>>>> We break up ; I experience a few weeks of despair, go back to him, and we get back together. the following week we get seriously involved physically, still no sex, but i start losing weight like never before, (dropped 2.5 stones in a week), get panic attacks, and dont feel well with myself at all. Under the pressure of my close christian friends, i break up with him crying. I spent the next 2 months convincing myself it wasnt worth it, and that he was only after my body..til I come across him in the street : June (06), and since i was planning a huge party at my place a few days later i simply invite him to drop by to say hey. He rsays he will be busy somewhere else.


Then at 1 am the night of my party, he shows up, drunk, with all his friends, and as my friends ask him who he is, he looks at me, and says "ive known this girl and it is someone i Adore. Ive missed her like crazy, it had been months, and here I am to see her. ****** is my name". then he takes my hand and asks if he can hold me. Quite an impression to my young heart. We spend an amazing night hanging out with my friends in a park, he takes me to a tree under which weve madea fire, and explains me that he cannot admit to the word" love" because hes just come out of his 5 yr long relationship, he asks if he may kiss me, though, because he has missed me a whole lot. We get back together, we get back to my place, sleep in each other's arms, the next morning he leaves almost without a word. He called 3 days later "for news", telling me he was standing on a bridge by himself with a bottle, at 11 pm.
I got scared and decided to go meet him, knowing he is a strange bird.. instead he asks that we meet at a party, where he practically ignores me, then after drinking, comes to me and asks me if my beliefs have changed. I say no, and after clearing his throat, explains me that we cant stay together, so i grab my bag and run out. he runs after me and hold me tight, and since there happens to be a piano in the house, i go and play. he follows me as i play emotional depressing songs. he cries, and tells me he has never told the following stuff to anyone :

"everyone believes im about using people and getting my way, but i spend my life trying to prove myself, and i am so tired of it, i feel like a nobody". I told him some christian cheer up words (the only ones i knew at the time).. and i went back to my place. Was this manipulation ?


Then after a few weeks of silence i call him up to ask him for news, and he simply tells me that he is living town. I didnt have any news from him for the entire summer after this (3 months) so i wrote him a huge letter (10 pages) full of recommendations and "will you please take care of your body and soul and life?", very christian stuff (ugh). Since then, i havent had any news from him.


>>>> 2007 January : after a lot of reading, some good talks, debates, and the positiv influence from my studies, i de-convert, and it gets to him through some friends. I suddenly discover balanced living, being a college student, being able to think for myself, and the feeling is.. aah, amazing.


>>>> Mid -March : really drunk (my first real drunken experience), i call him up at 5 am, but only hearing his voice makes me shake, so i let him talk with my friends, who try to figure out if hed like to meet us up anywhere (were really drunk at this point). he is up as usual, in one of his "quiet hangouts" with his friends, and his current gf, so he refuses.


>>>>> Mid-April : 11 pm (?), a friend of his calls me up, asking if id like to "hang out, "just relax before exams".. but since i had a double major, a lot of work, and knew it would mess me up emotionally i politely decline. Since then, ive come across him a few times in the street and at university, but never dared to stop and sit down to talk to him, and hed always say "hi" or wink at me.

i can Not get him out of my mind. Since then, also, ive been in a serious relationship, have lost my virginity, have gotten in better terms with the fact that young people drink alcohol. In other words, life is good.

If only i could turn this page / get clear on our story. Where should I start without making a fool of myself once again ? Im rather ashamed of the letter i sent him, and mentionned to a mutual friend that i see my former behaviour as an evangelical xian as unethical.

PS : Girl, 22, Gradschool, student in psychology, still healthy-fun-good looking, if that helsp tp figure out the situation in any way =) thanx for reading.

posted by anonymous to human relations (21 comments total)

You just thought your way out from under evangelical xianity (congratulations! I know how hard that is to do but also how good it feels afterwards).

You need time to grow a little emotionally.

The last thing you need to do right now is get re-involved with a manipulative, narcissistic alcoholic, which is what you've described.
posted by unSane at 6:09 PM on January 5, 2008

There is too much melodrama and too much alcohol. This relationship would have a long, long, long way to go. I suggest you both live your lives separately for a few years yet. The way you describe him, sure he might care about you, but the uncertainty you feel right now about his true feelings would never go away as long as he's an alcoholic. This all just sounds so young infatuation to me.
posted by iguanapolitico at 6:12 PM on January 5, 2008 [2 favorites]

Based on ctrl-f and "?": yes there are questions.

is it worth going back anyway ?
No.

Any insight ?
He is young, too. Ethics and morality is a life long journey. It is never constant. He, like everyone else, is finding out as they grow older and be exposed to more ofthe world.

Alcoholics : do they have feelings (sincere ones, ever ?) ?
Yes.

Was this manipulation ?
If you feel like it was, yes. However, to be fair, it may have not been the intent.

Where should I start without making a fool of myself once again
Life is about getting hurt, being confused, making mistakes and learning from them. You will look like a fool many many times. Don't be afraid of it. Just be sure to take something away from it.
posted by spec80 at 6:16 PM on January 5, 2008 [4 favorites]

Short answer to a long question: he sure doesn't sound worth the trouble, you can't change him and time alone will take care of the "can't stop thinking about him" problem. I'd share with you a story about they person I just couldn't stop thinking about when I was 20, but I can't remember his name at the moment.

You're at a time in your life when you've got tons of work to do on yourself. You're also at a point in your life where you have the opportunity to meet lots of different kinds of people, date casually (or not) and have fun. Don't complicate your already busy life or miss out on chances to maybe meet the right person for you for the sake of one troubled guy.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 6:20 PM on January 5, 2008 [3 favorites]

The story: you almost got played by a slick, probably alcoholic college player. The fundy religion probably didn't do you much good but it happened to be your friend in this instance, because it demonstrated that he he wasn't interested in any real investment in you if he couldn't fuck you.

he has this charm that only slightly alcoholic guys can have

There's nothing more false and harmful and deluded than this bullshit that there's something romantic and charming about being a drunk. If you see him in five years and he hasn't mended his ways you'll see how fast that facade fades.

Where should I start without making a fool of myself once again ?

Don't reach out to him, don't interact with him on any serious level, don't go back to him. Go about your business and time will do the rest. There are no shortcuts and time is the only remedy.
posted by nanojath at 6:28 PM on January 5, 2008 [2 favorites]

The only people who actually need a specific person are Siamese twins and most of them endure risky procedures to get separated.


Another note: Someone talking to you for 5 hours straight is not deep or caring or insightful or loving. They're just using you.

Stay in therapy. Quit calling him. Quit having your friends call him.

i can Not get him out of my mind.

This is not a big deal and you're giving it more power than it deserves. You've had a troubled life and you're 20, you're bound to be obsessing about something. Millions of people have been where you are and eventually got past it. You will too.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:44 PM on January 5, 2008 [4 favorites]

Please do yourself a favor and learn about what it's like to be in a relationship with an alcoholic. I strongly suggest that you attend an Al-Anon meeting, just to learn what it's like. There are many books about relationships with alcoholics and the phenomenon known as co-dependency. You can learn about this from the experiences of others.

It's certainly possible to have a relationship with an alcoholic, but I sure don't recommend it.
posted by jasper411 at 6:45 PM on January 5, 2008

I agree with Freshwater...take care of YOU and open yourself up to meeting different kinds of people. If your best friend told you the tale you described and asked for your opinion, you would tell her to forget the guy, especially if she came from a family where alcoholism and abuse were issues. Sounds like you are replaying something familiar from your childhood; hormones ebb and flow, but alcoholism is there for a long time. Take it from me, if you were seriously involved with this fellow for an extended period, the situation would only worsen. You can't save/convert/change/support him or anyone. Chalk it up to experience, take good care of yourself and good luck.
posted by suzeQ at 6:49 PM on January 5, 2008

Alcoholics : do they have feelings (sincere ones, ever ?) ?

Sure they do, absolutely, but that is absolutely no reason to think that you can have a fulfilling, healthy relationship with someone who is an active alcoholic. That's a tough road, few people even with a lifetime of experience can live happily and healthfully with an active alcholic, and given your age, situation, and the wide world of options open to you, I wouldn't wish that on you.
posted by Miko at 7:03 PM on January 5, 2008

You are hung up on this guy's mixed signals (and rehashing your own "mistakes"), experiencing some wicked chemistry that is fucking with your head, and he is playing into every Dramatic College Faux-Relationship cliche ever. Please, let it go, stop thinking you can go back and "fix" this somehow, and force yourself to move on. No matter what your tiny inner voice is whispering to you, or how special it might make you feel, you will not be the magic One To Save Him. There is no such person.

Also, beware the speeches of the drunken. In vino veritas, yes, and also a bunch of melodramatic overblown bullshit that they'll never cop to when sober. Everyone feels very very special when they hit a certain level of drunkenness, and gosh do the people around us seem special too. Think of it as the ridiculous "No, I love you, man!" couched in sexual tension. It doesn't necessarily make you soul mates.

It's understandable that you are all torqued because of the crazy mixed signals he's giving you, but that is a classic way to keep you off-balance and leaning towards him. As soon as he senses that you're moving on, he'll start doing little things (like having the friend call) to keep his iron in the fire, just to make sure that he feeds your interest in him enough that it will make him feel wanted. He may not even know he's doing it, but that doesn't make it any less manipulative and selfish. Just give up the idea that you are going to get any more resolution out of this situation than you already have. Jumping back into the pool to try to sort this out is deliberately setting yourself up for confusion and pain, and after a while that won't seem so much romantic as a giant waste of time you could have spent being happy and not getting jerked around.

I know this is a lot clearer from the outside than it is while you're in it, and I wish you luck.
posted by tigerbelly at 7:05 PM on January 5, 2008 [2 favorites]

I say that you come from a highly disfunctional alcoholic family and the boy that you fall head over heels for and can't forget has been an alcoholic since he was 12. Often the way a child learns to cope with being in a dysfunctional family keeps them from being the full person they want to be as an adult. Check out this book: It Will Never Happen to Me and see if you recognize yourself in any of the examples. I also second jasper411's suggestion that check out Al-anon. You can go to a meeting and just listen.
posted by metahawk at 7:13 PM on January 5, 2008 [1 favorite]

Spoken from direct experience:

i have no idea if he would say such things to get physical reward or not

Yes, he would. Of course.

despised my beliefs..

Despite your later "de-conversion", at the time then he despised you. The real actual inner you, the person.

he had made it a rule not to run after people, because he doesnt want to cause any damage in people's lives. I simply cant get where his ethics stand

He was asking permission to cause damage.

Then at 1 am the night of my party, he shows up, drunk, with all his friends, and as my friends ask him who he is, he looks at me, and says "ive known this girl and it is someone i Adore. Ive missed her like crazy, it had been months, and here I am to see her. ****** is my name". then he takes my hand and asks if he can hold me. Quite an impression to my young heart. We spend an amazing night hanging out with my friends in a park, he takes me to a tree under which weve madea fire, and explains me that he cannot admit to the word" love" because hes just come out of his 5 yr long relationship, he asks if he may kiss me, though, because he has missed me a whole lot. We get back together, we get back to my place, sleep in each other's arms, the next morning he leaves almost without a word. He called 3 days later "for news", telling me he was standing on a bridge by himself with a bottle, at 11 pm.

You seriously don't see manipulative behavior in all this: the flattery, the BS around the word "love", the suicide threat?

all of my being yearns to just sit down and talk with him

Perhaps what you yearn for is a real relationship and are projecting that on this highly-idealized memory. Like anyone, you need to find a real, mature individual unwilling to carry on a pretense of respect while despising your beliefs, no matter what they happen to be.
posted by scheptech at 7:31 PM on January 5, 2008

Oh god, girl, I recognize myself in you. BACK AWAY FROM THE ALCOHOLIC CHARMER NOW!

In my case, I was an insecure recent grad, he was the rakish and troubled hard drinking poetry professor. I got pregnant, he wigged out and I agonized for the whole pregnancy about the state of our "relationship." Once I had my son and experienced the overwhelming healing that relationship brought me, I was able to look back and see that that there wasn't any relationship there. There was me, orbiting him, who orbited his own erratic star that I could never, ever, replace.

The kid is almost 13 and I have totally moved on, into a healthy marriage. I still love his father, but from very, very far away, in an abstract, "gee, I hope he's not dead in a ditch" kind of way.

I know how you feel, and I know how it hurts, but it's really for the best that you put some distance between you two now and figure out how your own self works instead of worrying about him. I was always the girl who was going to save the damaged individuals I fell for, and you know, despite my heroic efforts, I never once did. But I have brought a lot of happiness to my husband and kids. Work through this now, and someday you'll come to realize that there's nothing sexier than a sober, sane man who skips the bullshit and just loves you. I have one playing Guitar Hero in my rec room right now, and I'm so glad he's there instead of out feeling sorry for himself in a skanky collegetown pub.
posted by Biblio at 7:45 PM on January 5, 2008 [4 favorites]

Bad boys are sexy. They are not, as you have found, reliable relationship material.
posted by desuetude at 7:46 PM on January 5, 2008

I feel for you. Although I didn't have the same religious background you've had, I've been in a similar situation and it was rough. I hate to reduce your experience down to a cliche but we've all been there: crazy attraction to a bad boy (or girl) that feeds the drama flame but is nowhere near healthy.

As someone above said, you are experiencing some wicked chemistry and if you were the type of person who could just fuck the nuts off this guy and walk away, then I would recommend doing just that: ride the roller coaster, get it all out of your system and emerge a little wounded but ultimately older and wiser.

But, you're not (or at least you don't seem to be) and nothing good will come of any continued interaction. Stop obsessing about the letter you wrote and chalk the whole thing up to a learning experience.

(Also, meet some new guys. Nothing like a little healthy attention from the opposite sex -- or same, I'm all in favor of equal opportunity -- to provide a healthy distraction.)
posted by hapax_legomenon at 7:55 PM on January 5, 2008

my god...I'm glad I'm not that age anymore..

you need to lighten up some...he needs some help....

this relationship is probably not a healthy thing for anyone
posted by HuronBob at 8:18 PM on January 5, 2008

The feeling of elated first love/infatuation is hard to get over. (You admire some of his qualities and not others. He seems so uniquely great and if only he could get his act together he'd really be a wonderful guy. He's inconsiderate and sometimes manipulative, but not always, and he's fascinating, and he might really be into you -- kind of thrilling -- but it's hard to tell. He seems to be the only one who understands certain things about you, you have a great connection, sometimes, and if only you could just talk it over, you feel like you'd get some closure or maybe he'd realize that he wants to be with you.)

Having been through a long relationship with a similar brilliant but f-ed up "bad boy", over a period of years in my late teens early 20s, here is my advice. It's boring but hard-won.

Don't date men who are inconsiderate.

Many alcoholics are magnetic. But anybody with a substance abuse problem is going to be inconsiderate. It's the nature of the beast.

You come from a background of abuse, which means you should be extra-careful to avoid dating someone who needs to be "fixed". In abusive families, often children are pushed to help their dysfunctional parents, and it's easy to carry on this role into adult relationships. Don't accept that kind of role. In a proper adult relationship, the kind you should be looking for, partners are equals -- maybe they have different strengths, but neither one acts like a child (acting like the "f-ed up one" who relies on the other to "fix" him, or to be "understanding" when he has an "episode") and neither one acts like a parent.

This was an exciting first romance, and you've learned from it. Now you should make an effort to move on -- stop calling him, stop monitoring his activities. It will take time to get over him -- that's normal, and it doesn't mean that he was the One True Love or anything. It just takes time. Someday in the next year or two, you will be so over him, and you'll be much better off.

Find a guy who is considerate. He can be adventurous and fun-loving etc, all kinds of other glamorous and wild things, but he should be considerate as a minimum baseline or else he's not someone you should get emotionally involved with.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:19 PM on January 5, 2008 [2 favorites]

(dropped 2.5 stones in a week)

You lost 35 pounds in a week?!
posted by amro at 8:54 PM on January 5, 2008 [1 favorite]

Clever, confident (= what he shows).

He's as lost as you. Start there. Assume we are all like that and it is normal to have those issues. Then clear up your issues. The rest will make itself clear.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:38 PM on January 5, 2008

"Then at 1 am the night of my party, he shows up, drunk, with all his friends, and as my friends ask him who he is, he looks at me, and says "ive known this girl and it is someone i Adore. Ive missed her like crazy, it had been months, and here I am to see her. ****** is my name". then he takes my hand and asks if he can hold me."

Until the day comes that you can recognize this as unbelievably manipulative utter bullshit, you will be stuck with men who do not give a shit about you. If that's what stokes your fire, great, but don't come crying to us or anyone else when the charming raconteur turns out to be, predictably, no good at all.

He hasn't changed. His behavior now is the same as his behavior then. Leading you on. Using little tricks to keep you interested. You're a fucking psych student. You should see through this. I absolutely positively guarantee that dating him again will leave you more unhappy than moving on.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:56 AM on January 6, 2008

For what it is worth, work on your confidence, your esteem - as you feel better about yourself and what you have become, you will slowly start to realize that people like this do not deserve you.

Instead of running away from him, run toward yourself - take care of yourself and you will find it a whole lot easier to move on. Not only that, but the right people will start to move toward you.
posted by bitteroldman at 10:12 AM on January 6, 2008