Help me not hate Broadway
January 1, 2008 7:27 PM Subscribe
Broadway Musicals? Why do I hate them so? I cringe when I hear "that music". What would you say to a hater of musical theater that might create an appreciation?
I don't know that there's anything anyone can say to change your mind. Musical theater requires a huge suspension of disbelief more than just about anything else. You have to be OK with people just stopping to sing and dance and emote. The music tends to be very structured and ya-ta-ta, and that may not be your thing. Maybe it just brings high school drama kids to mind?
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:34 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:34 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well, as a lover of Broadway musicals, I would first want to know what your exposure has been- what shows? What composers? Everyone has different tastes- I would bet it would be possible to find something you wouldn't hate.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:35 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:35 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Watch "Cabaret".
posted by moxiedoll at 7:36 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by moxiedoll at 7:36 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
The music tends to be very structured and ya-ta-ta, and that may not be your thing.
That's my problem with musicals. The rhyming sequences are much too predictable - words and meters both.
I quite enjoyed the movie Hedwig and the Angry Inch, though I'm not sure that properly counts as a musical.
posted by cmyk at 7:38 PM on January 1, 2008
That's my problem with musicals. The rhyming sequences are much too predictable - words and meters both.
I quite enjoyed the movie Hedwig and the Angry Inch, though I'm not sure that properly counts as a musical.
posted by cmyk at 7:38 PM on January 1, 2008
I think it's very hard to find subtle broadway music. Due to the nature of the theater, most musicals scream "This is what you're feeling right now. See how she's sad? Don't you hear the violins?! Weep! WEEP!"
I've seen several musicals and hated them all with the exception of The Lion King, which was Disney Music anyway, and was really pretty amazing. Try going to a musical with the expectations of overwrought shmaltz and you'll probably do better.
posted by OrangeDrink at 7:40 PM on January 1, 2008
I've seen several musicals and hated them all with the exception of The Lion King, which was Disney Music anyway, and was really pretty amazing. Try going to a musical with the expectations of overwrought shmaltz and you'll probably do better.
posted by OrangeDrink at 7:40 PM on January 1, 2008
What's your experience with them? When I had only seen Les Misérables and Phantom of the Opera, I hated them too. But then I saw Spamalot and Hairspray and figured out I only hate the serious ones with boring music. YMMV, etc.
posted by hjo3 at 7:42 PM on January 1, 2008
posted by hjo3 at 7:42 PM on January 1, 2008
I'm going to second TPS here. I'm not a musical lover by far and my broadway musical education is extremely low BUT, even so, there's always something that you can like. Even people who like to frame themselves as "haters" will like a specific show or such. Broadway, likes all things, is a huge genre with shows that cover all sorts of situations, musical ranges, compositions, etc etc. Sweeny Todd, The Fartista, Title of Show, Avenue Q, Drowsy Chaperone, etc etc - there are a million shows and you'll find one that you'll like.
I consider people who dislike Broadway as the same kind of people who dislike Pop music but love "indie". Basically, they dislike one genre while embracing another part of it. The same goes with musicals - you can dislike a lot of it but you're still going to find something you like.
Also, I find broadway musicals to be best experienced in well done shows. When done poorly, it's going to suck and, as a person who's not that into theater, listening to soundtracks from musicals I don't know isn't very enlightening. Musicals need to be experienced and, like all things, it's hard to experience the good stuff - but, when you do, it works.
posted by Stynxno at 7:46 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
I consider people who dislike Broadway as the same kind of people who dislike Pop music but love "indie". Basically, they dislike one genre while embracing another part of it. The same goes with musicals - you can dislike a lot of it but you're still going to find something you like.
Also, I find broadway musicals to be best experienced in well done shows. When done poorly, it's going to suck and, as a person who's not that into theater, listening to soundtracks from musicals I don't know isn't very enlightening. Musicals need to be experienced and, like all things, it's hard to experience the good stuff - but, when you do, it works.
posted by Stynxno at 7:46 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Of course "Hedwig" counts as a musical! That's the thing - people think that they hate musicals, but that's only true of people who hate all styles of music, and comedy, and drama. Otherwise, there's no need to throw out the entire genre, which is awfully broad. "Hedwig" is fun because it's a rock musical, and because the musical sequences are either performances, or fantasies. So for people who can't suspend disbelief enough to deal with people bursting into song, there are plenty of musicals (particularly those in more recent film versions) that correct for this by keeping the songs in specific realms. So in addition to "Cabaret", I'd recommend "Dancer in the Dark", where the songs are all explicitly fantasy, and the reason for all of the musical daydreams is the main character's love of musicals. That movie might explain why people love them more than any answers here could.
posted by moxiedoll at 7:46 PM on January 1, 2008
posted by moxiedoll at 7:46 PM on January 1, 2008
Well, I make my living playing musicals on Bway, and I agree with a lot of these sentiments - often there's nothing subtle about them at all. But I DO think it's wrong to lump them all together, 'cuz there is a pretty wide range of styles. I've never really been to an old school musical such as Oklahoma, The Music Man, etc. I would think that that would have some charm as a period piece - really, that language is NOT spoken any more, much in the same way that Baroque music, for example, is of a time and place (albeit further away and far more serious, imho). Rent, on the other hand, clearly owes more to Lennon & McCartney, Jagger & Richards, etc., than Rodgers & Hart. Whether or not you think it is successful at what it tries to do, it's still a very different beast from your typical Bway musical (eg, they don't stop and sing, in fact they never stop singing. It really owes a lot to opera in that regard...). The Color Purple is really cool, in my opinion, 'cuz it comes from the black tradition, musically - lots of gospel and blues. And something like Spring Awakening - well, that music is all about indie rock - dark, moody, etc.
So bear in mind that "that music" is a little vague - if you are talking about old school Bway musicals, that's one thing, but there's a wide variety on Bway at the moment.
As for me, what I DON'T love about the medium is that, like many, many other things, they seem to cater to the lowest common denominator - "Legally Blonde", anyone? To me there's a difference between disliking a medium in theory and finding most manifestations of that medium unsatisfying.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 7:55 PM on January 1, 2008
So bear in mind that "that music" is a little vague - if you are talking about old school Bway musicals, that's one thing, but there's a wide variety on Bway at the moment.
As for me, what I DON'T love about the medium is that, like many, many other things, they seem to cater to the lowest common denominator - "Legally Blonde", anyone? To me there's a difference between disliking a medium in theory and finding most manifestations of that medium unsatisfying.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 7:55 PM on January 1, 2008
I second Sweeney Todd (although I do not know if the movie version's any good), and add Sondheim's Assassins. Assassins, about all the people who have attempted to assassinate an American president, has a variety of styles -- from operatic to ragtime to '70s soft rock. Both Sweeney Todd and Assassins are dark and hilarious.
Since Avenue Q works primarily as a parody of Sesame Street -- note-perfect, too -- I recommend that particularly.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:57 PM on January 1, 2008
Since Avenue Q works primarily as a parody of Sesame Street -- note-perfect, too -- I recommend that particularly.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:57 PM on January 1, 2008
You could not pay me to see Cats or Phantom or Les Miz or most very popular musicals. But I loved Chicago.
So, if you like Python, you might like Spamalot. If you're a cynic, there's Cabaret and Chicago. If you're a rockist, there's Hedwig. So -- what kind of books, movies and music do you like? There may be a musical that fits for you.
posted by maudlin at 7:58 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
So, if you like Python, you might like Spamalot. If you're a cynic, there's Cabaret and Chicago. If you're a rockist, there's Hedwig. So -- what kind of books, movies and music do you like? There may be a musical that fits for you.
posted by maudlin at 7:58 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh, Fingers of Fire. Do NOT hate on "Oklahoma" right after admitting you've never seen it. First off, it's not a period piece - it was written in the 1940s, and it takes place around the turn of the century. The language is not "baroque", it's completely plain spoken, modern American English, and the songs are terribly funny and clever. It also includes an attempted date rape, an unrepentant slut, and a guy who digs strip clubs. All in song!
posted by moxiedoll at 8:04 PM on January 1, 2008
posted by moxiedoll at 8:04 PM on January 1, 2008
Hmm. Thinking about it I can tell you exactly where I went sour on musicals: Rodgers and Hammerstein, who my grandmother loved and adored and played and watched INCESSANTLY as I was growing up. Add a heaping dose of Disney to that, and I've somehow defined "musical," in my mind, as "formulaic and predictable and somewhat maddeningly perky most of the time." You know, stuff like My Fair Lady. The rain in spain ba-dom-ba-stabby. I saw Phantom, wasn't impressed, and walking out I thought that if you excised all the singing there was probably half an hour of story.
Spamalot I could probably get into, Hedwig was great, Avenue Q I haven't seen but the soundtrack cracked me up. Rocky Horror was fun when I was in high school. Irreverent works for me, serious and earnest and overblown does not.
posted by cmyk at 8:10 PM on January 1, 2008
Spamalot I could probably get into, Hedwig was great, Avenue Q I haven't seen but the soundtrack cracked me up. Rocky Horror was fun when I was in high school. Irreverent works for me, serious and earnest and overblown does not.
posted by cmyk at 8:10 PM on January 1, 2008
It also includes an attempted date rape, an unrepentant slut, and a guy who digs strip clubs. All in song!
Heh. One of my favorite musicals of all time is "Gypsy". I was in 2 community theatre productions of it- one as a child, and one as a teen. My youth pastor came to see the second production, but told one of my friends he didn't care for it, because it was "about strippers". It is absolutely not "about" strippers, but there are strippers in it. So, here's one thing that could sway you: if you're willing to think about them in a very simplistic way, a lot of musicals contain or are about filthy topics.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:11 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Heh. One of my favorite musicals of all time is "Gypsy". I was in 2 community theatre productions of it- one as a child, and one as a teen. My youth pastor came to see the second production, but told one of my friends he didn't care for it, because it was "about strippers". It is absolutely not "about" strippers, but there are strippers in it. So, here's one thing that could sway you: if you're willing to think about them in a very simplistic way, a lot of musicals contain or are about filthy topics.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:11 PM on January 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
The movie adaption of Sweeney Todd was not very good as a musical, but was dandy as a Tim Burton movie with Johnny Depp.
You can't go wrong with Sondheim musicals. He doesn't write those mawkish melodies that makes up so much of musical theater. A Little Night Music, Company, and Assassins each have interesting lyrics and very relatable characters.
Also, The Donmar Warehouse production of The Three Penny Opera is your new best friend. My favorite translation of the musical that really captures the gritty nature of the play.
posted by munchingzombie at 8:16 PM on January 1, 2008
You can't go wrong with Sondheim musicals. He doesn't write those mawkish melodies that makes up so much of musical theater. A Little Night Music, Company, and Assassins each have interesting lyrics and very relatable characters.
Also, The Donmar Warehouse production of The Three Penny Opera is your new best friend. My favorite translation of the musical that really captures the gritty nature of the play.
posted by munchingzombie at 8:16 PM on January 1, 2008
moxiedoll, I fully acknowledge that my perception of Oklahoma is based on VERY little first hand information. Also, as I said, I work in the field, so I'm entitled to my share of cynicism. Well, maybe I'm not ENTITLED to it, but I got it, either way. That said, I think I wasn't clear in my previous post. I'm quite certain that Oklahoma is an extremely well-executed work of musical theater. But I also believe that it comes from a time and place and uses a language which, although in many ways is not too far removed from ours, is still different enough in ways to make it inaccessible for a lot of people (ie those who gravitate towards more modern sensibilities, post-rock, etc.). Again - that doesn't mean that Oklahoma is BAD - and, in truth, I wouldn't know 'cuz I haven't seen it. But I have played a LOT of Jazz standards that are culled from the classic Broadway repetoire (including selections from Oklahoma), and I'm a persnickety, judgemental person - so I have an opinion. I don't think Bach is BAD - but he IS writing in a style that is VERY different from the language of contemporary classical music. And it's important to keep that in mind when evaluating the work, as Area Control has asked us to do.
It's all about taste, and everyone has the right to theirs...
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:21 PM on January 1, 2008
It's all about taste, and everyone has the right to theirs...
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:21 PM on January 1, 2008
avenue q or drowsy chaperone might be more up your alley- they have a level of meta-theatricality about them that i think does a lot to "earn" them the right to be all chipper and singy.
(there's a bit of what looks like overacting in those youtube links- but when you watch, go easy on the actors- remember that those are filmed versions of stage shows, and at the time of filming, there was also a live audience- so the actors are correctly pitching their performance level to the back of the house, not to a zoomed-in camera on a close-up shot. in a theatre, if you were sitting in the audience, those "large" moments would be fine.)
posted by twistofrhyme at 8:24 PM on January 1, 2008
(there's a bit of what looks like overacting in those youtube links- but when you watch, go easy on the actors- remember that those are filmed versions of stage shows, and at the time of filming, there was also a live audience- so the actors are correctly pitching their performance level to the back of the house, not to a zoomed-in camera on a close-up shot. in a theatre, if you were sitting in the audience, those "large" moments would be fine.)
posted by twistofrhyme at 8:24 PM on January 1, 2008
Yeah, I'm not a fan of most "traditional" musicals either, but I do find I respond to less traditional musicals, namely those featuring stories/scores with some real complexity and darkness. "Hedwig and the Angry Inch," "Sweeney Todd" (and other Sondheim -- I really enjoyed the Tim Burton adaptation, by the way), "Threepenny Opera," and "Cabaret" are all on my short list of musicals that I find really quite breathtaking. Oh, and "Spamalot," because it's really bloody funny.
posted by scody at 8:38 PM on January 1, 2008
posted by scody at 8:38 PM on January 1, 2008
You could be my boyfriend. I love musicals and always have, across all genres. I used to walk around singing songs from The Sound of Music, West Side Story, and My Fair Lady as a kid. I used to break into my own random songs on the street as a kid too. So suspension of disbelief is definitely key.
If you didn't find that as a kid like I did, then you'll have to work on it, but others are right when they mention the fact that music and style definitely varies by show.
What is "that music" to you? Did you have a specific show in mind? Rent is different from Les Miserables as that one is different from Avenue Q.
Live theater, by one aspect of its nature, is highly theatrical. That doesn't mean everything is overdone and there can be no subtlety. But everything is crisp and sometimes overstated from the need to successfully reach the back of the house. Some shows are much more jokey. Sondheim, which some have recommended, often visits the dark side of things, but is also very wordy in his lyrics. I love him though.
It reminds me a little of those who proclaim themselves haters of "anime" without realizing that anime comes in all genres and different styles that most anyone could find something they like.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:39 PM on January 1, 2008
If you didn't find that as a kid like I did, then you'll have to work on it, but others are right when they mention the fact that music and style definitely varies by show.
What is "that music" to you? Did you have a specific show in mind? Rent is different from Les Miserables as that one is different from Avenue Q.
Live theater, by one aspect of its nature, is highly theatrical. That doesn't mean everything is overdone and there can be no subtlety. But everything is crisp and sometimes overstated from the need to successfully reach the back of the house. Some shows are much more jokey. Sondheim, which some have recommended, often visits the dark side of things, but is also very wordy in his lyrics. I love him though.
It reminds me a little of those who proclaim themselves haters of "anime" without realizing that anime comes in all genres and different styles that most anyone could find something they like.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:39 PM on January 1, 2008
Oh, and one more: "Singin' in the Rain" is sublime (though I will admit I usually go make a sandwich during the "Broadway Rhythm" sequence). It's a great, wry send-up of a certain period in Hollywood history, and Gene Kelly's performance of the title song is truly a thing of astonishing beauty and joy.
posted by scody at 8:48 PM on January 1, 2008
posted by scody at 8:48 PM on January 1, 2008
I feel much the same as you do. I would recommend seeing Avenue Q though. It could change your views a little, just by how amazingly funny it is. I think it also helps that the entire show is a fantasyland, not just the musical numbers, so you don't have to shift from reality mode to fantasy mode and back all the time.
posted by soy_renfield at 9:25 PM on January 1, 2008
posted by soy_renfield at 9:25 PM on January 1, 2008
People have noted how much suspension of disbelief musicals require and how over-the-top, let's-throw-all-subtlety-out-the-window they are... But, I think, for many musical-goers, that's kind of the point.
It won't do to analyze most musicals in terms of plot, character, or meaning, really. Often, they are based on beautiful stories, but the point of a musical is not to tell a story. Instead, it is to express the emotions in that story. Musicals are all about the heart-pounding emotions, presented through music and dance. The story is only there to give us all a reason to weep at sad scenes, or to feel jubilation at another's success, or to feel horror at another's maleficence. Musicals are emotional roller-coasters, on purpose, for the sake of expressing, experiencing, and analyzing those emotions.
Or... At least, that's how I see it. I used to love musicals when I was younger, and there are some that I still appreciate. But I certainly don't appreciate them due to their characterizations or plot contrivances, that's for sure. I appreciate them for their ability to pinpoint an emotional experience through song, to lead me through an emotional scenario via those very basic responses we have to spectacle.
So, maybe if you can focus on how the music is meant to affect your emotions, and how those musicals as a whole presents those emotions.. Maybe that can help you appreciate them?
posted by Ms. Saint at 9:25 PM on January 1, 2008
It won't do to analyze most musicals in terms of plot, character, or meaning, really. Often, they are based on beautiful stories, but the point of a musical is not to tell a story. Instead, it is to express the emotions in that story. Musicals are all about the heart-pounding emotions, presented through music and dance. The story is only there to give us all a reason to weep at sad scenes, or to feel jubilation at another's success, or to feel horror at another's maleficence. Musicals are emotional roller-coasters, on purpose, for the sake of expressing, experiencing, and analyzing those emotions.
Or... At least, that's how I see it. I used to love musicals when I was younger, and there are some that I still appreciate. But I certainly don't appreciate them due to their characterizations or plot contrivances, that's for sure. I appreciate them for their ability to pinpoint an emotional experience through song, to lead me through an emotional scenario via those very basic responses we have to spectacle.
So, maybe if you can focus on how the music is meant to affect your emotions, and how those musicals as a whole presents those emotions.. Maybe that can help you appreciate them?
posted by Ms. Saint at 9:25 PM on January 1, 2008
Best answer: Have you ever performed in a play? My short lived career in high school theatre lasted for two plays, wherein I starred as the memorable Performer #3, Backstage Dancer #6, and Erin (It was a small play). I'd like to think that performing in plays helped me cultivate an interest in the technical aspects of theatre. Compared to the local cineplex, Broadway is a richer, multidimensional experience. So even if the plot and theme of Hairspray isn't your thing, you can appreciate the performance for its skill and execution.
That said, I'm sure you'll eventually find a play with the right plot, theme and execution.
posted by theiconoclast31 at 9:39 PM on January 1, 2008
That said, I'm sure you'll eventually find a play with the right plot, theme and execution.
posted by theiconoclast31 at 9:39 PM on January 1, 2008
Maybe you have perfect pitch, because singing that loud and nasal frequently means singing off-key. Off-key makes me cringe, especially if it is just a little off key. For example, I cringed during that Ugly Betty episode a few weeks ago when Betty and her geeky boyfriend went to see Wicked. The singers were just a little off-pitch and it drove me crazy. If a few notes really bother you, you could have some bad association to the whole genre.
I do better with mostly ensemble performances and ones that do not include lots of gratuitous loud long-held notes. (I do not have perfect pitch but played a bunch of wind instruments that required pitch control)
posted by Eringatang at 9:39 PM on January 1, 2008
I do better with mostly ensemble performances and ones that do not include lots of gratuitous loud long-held notes. (I do not have perfect pitch but played a bunch of wind instruments that required pitch control)
posted by Eringatang at 9:39 PM on January 1, 2008
Best answer: Ahem.
The greatest Broadway-style musical of the last several years was South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut.
If you appreciate what it's parodying and why it's parodying, then perhaps that will help understand the classic musical structures (e.g. overture, point-counterpoint pieces, the big show-stoppers, etc).
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:05 PM on January 1, 2008
The greatest Broadway-style musical of the last several years was South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut.
If you appreciate what it's parodying and why it's parodying, then perhaps that will help understand the classic musical structures (e.g. overture, point-counterpoint pieces, the big show-stoppers, etc).
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:05 PM on January 1, 2008
I also don't like musicals, but enjoyed Chicago (the movie). It kind of bypasses my problem with silly spontaneous song and dance when the lawyer folds literal into his figurative as he tapdances around the law - that's just cool. :-)
Musicals at the movie theatres died out decades ago, because we - modern audiences - hate them. Chicargo was more recent, and I think it was made to be more palatable for modern audiences.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:12 PM on January 1, 2008
Musicals at the movie theatres died out decades ago, because we - modern audiences - hate them. Chicargo was more recent, and I think it was made to be more palatable for modern audiences.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:12 PM on January 1, 2008
Little Shop of Horrors is a fun Broadway musical that had enough appeal for Frank Oz to adapt it into a movie.
posted by bonobo at 12:03 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by bonobo at 12:03 AM on January 2, 2008
You sound like my husband too. There was a great documentary series made recently called Broadway: The American Musical that he sorta half-sat through with me. Getting some idea of the history of the art form may change your mind about it a little bit. F'rinstance, it's funny how many people think of "Oklahoma" as being a traditional musical. It was hugely groundbreaking at the time. It starts with an old woman churning butter by herself on stage, while a single cowboy sings "O What a Beautiful Mornin'." It wasn't a chorus line of Ziegfeld girls; it was "modern" and revolutionary. (And yeah, there's the attempted rape and murder and all the sex...) If you can, check out the British version that was done a few years ago with Hugh Jackman. It was excellent.
One of my favorite sequences in the PBS documentary was about "South Pacific," and how there was a pretty serious story in it about racism. The main chick falls in love with a guy but hesitates because he's got two mixed race kids. Another character sings a famous song to her called "You've Got to be Carefully Taught", about how racism isn't something innate, it's something we learn. Lawmakers in Georgia tried to get the show banned. This stuff, this art form, was taken very seriously back then.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. In any medium, 90% of the stuff is going to be crap. And when something good does come along, there will be a hundred imitators who take all the soul out of it and sell it to the masses (i.e. Andrew Lloyd Webber). Check out some of the "non-traditional" musicals people have mentioned, but also go back and look at some of the originals with an objective eye. There's a reason people have been using music and song to tell stories for a long time. Some of it is ritual, some is escapism, some is catharsis, and some is just good plain fun.
(I should stop before I go any further. Seriously, on New Year's Eve my husband had to shush me when, fueled by great quantities of red wine, I started telling our guests about my idea to write a thesis on the genius that is Disney's "High School Musical" and its popularity as a result of its adherence to traditional operatic romance narratives...)
posted by web-goddess at 12:23 AM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
One of my favorite sequences in the PBS documentary was about "South Pacific," and how there was a pretty serious story in it about racism. The main chick falls in love with a guy but hesitates because he's got two mixed race kids. Another character sings a famous song to her called "You've Got to be Carefully Taught", about how racism isn't something innate, it's something we learn. Lawmakers in Georgia tried to get the show banned. This stuff, this art form, was taken very seriously back then.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. In any medium, 90% of the stuff is going to be crap. And when something good does come along, there will be a hundred imitators who take all the soul out of it and sell it to the masses (i.e. Andrew Lloyd Webber). Check out some of the "non-traditional" musicals people have mentioned, but also go back and look at some of the originals with an objective eye. There's a reason people have been using music and song to tell stories for a long time. Some of it is ritual, some is escapism, some is catharsis, and some is just good plain fun.
(I should stop before I go any further. Seriously, on New Year's Eve my husband had to shush me when, fueled by great quantities of red wine, I started telling our guests about my idea to write a thesis on the genius that is Disney's "High School Musical" and its popularity as a result of its adherence to traditional operatic romance narratives...)
posted by web-goddess at 12:23 AM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Does it help to think about how high-larious some of the lyrics are? For example, the song "Bidin' My Time" from the musical Girl Crazy. With the awesome ridiculous rhyme:
I'm biding my time
'cause that's the kinda guy I'm
Lyrics from Girl Crazy.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 1:16 AM on January 2, 2008
I'm biding my time
'cause that's the kinda guy I'm
Lyrics from Girl Crazy.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 1:16 AM on January 2, 2008
I work for a regional theater that specializes in musicals and its precursor operetta. Not much of an expert in the genre, but I see alot of them needless to say and of course work with a passel o' true believers. When you say you hate musicals, you're lumping an awful lot of content into a very narrow statement.
You say you want to develop an appreciation for the genre. (hurray for you!) So I would suggest these steps:
Musical theater of the 30s, 40s and 50s is the basis for huge swaths of standard jazz rep and/or the jazz greats took a lot of these tunes and turned them into amazing jazz works. (My mind is blanking right now-- jazz guys here help me out with some titles.) So a first step might be to get some jazz records and listen to the songs out of context. This might give you an appreciation of the terrific composition and lyrics that characterize Broadway's "Golden Era" of Rodgers and Hart, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner and Loewe, Kurt Weill, Yip Harburg and others. Cole Porter and Noel Coward wrote musicals. Need I say more?
Next, try renting some of the really classic musicals. The movies are not the best way to experience the major musicals, but of course it's cheap and accessible. Be aware that just about every major musical that made it onto the screen was dumbed way down by the Hayes Censorship Act. (in Kiss Me Kate "I'm awfully glad that mother had to marry father" becomes "I'm glad that mother married father").
Find good regional theater in your area (you might find something here) that sticks as closely to original script, score, and orchestration as possible (orchestration is important-- these were amazing, lush scores. The 16 member pop bands that have replaced them just don't cut it).
The very last thing you should do is try the current Broadway hits. Especially the ones that make it onto the road rely hugely on spectacle; the music is often nearly secondary, unsingable by anyone without that hideous Broadway screech technique (oops, my prejudices are showing). But by the time you get this far, you may be a fan of the genre and willing to put up with the bad in order to hear, for instance, Kristen Chenowith singing Glitter and Be Gay from Candide.
posted by nax at 7:27 AM on January 2, 2008
You say you want to develop an appreciation for the genre. (hurray for you!) So I would suggest these steps:
Musical theater of the 30s, 40s and 50s is the basis for huge swaths of standard jazz rep and/or the jazz greats took a lot of these tunes and turned them into amazing jazz works. (My mind is blanking right now-- jazz guys here help me out with some titles.) So a first step might be to get some jazz records and listen to the songs out of context. This might give you an appreciation of the terrific composition and lyrics that characterize Broadway's "Golden Era" of Rodgers and Hart, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner and Loewe, Kurt Weill, Yip Harburg and others. Cole Porter and Noel Coward wrote musicals. Need I say more?
Next, try renting some of the really classic musicals. The movies are not the best way to experience the major musicals, but of course it's cheap and accessible. Be aware that just about every major musical that made it onto the screen was dumbed way down by the Hayes Censorship Act. (in Kiss Me Kate "I'm awfully glad that mother had to marry father" becomes "I'm glad that mother married father").
Find good regional theater in your area (you might find something here) that sticks as closely to original script, score, and orchestration as possible (orchestration is important-- these were amazing, lush scores. The 16 member pop bands that have replaced them just don't cut it).
The very last thing you should do is try the current Broadway hits. Especially the ones that make it onto the road rely hugely on spectacle; the music is often nearly secondary, unsingable by anyone without that hideous Broadway screech technique (oops, my prejudices are showing). But by the time you get this far, you may be a fan of the genre and willing to put up with the bad in order to hear, for instance, Kristen Chenowith singing Glitter and Be Gay from Candide.
posted by nax at 7:27 AM on January 2, 2008
John Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" from the Rodgers and Hammerstein song from "My Fair Lady" would be the kind of jazz album Nax is suggesting, I think.
posted by Jahaza at 7:44 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by Jahaza at 7:44 AM on January 2, 2008
nthing Sweeney Todd, or Into The Woods.. actually, okay, basically anything by Sondheim. He puts a subtlety into musicals that few other composer/songwriters have the restraint for.
And his lyrics are sublime.. I'd particularly recommend A Little Priest from Sweeney Todd (it's the moment that Mrs. Lovett & Sweeney realize how they can help each other), or anything from Into The Woods (alas, YouTube seems to only really have high school productions), especially First Midnight.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:26 AM on January 2, 2008
And his lyrics are sublime.. I'd particularly recommend A Little Priest from Sweeney Todd (it's the moment that Mrs. Lovett & Sweeney realize how they can help each other), or anything from Into The Woods (alas, YouTube seems to only really have high school productions), especially First Midnight.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:26 AM on January 2, 2008
60 Jazz Classics at The Movies is wonderful (if you can find it), it's a compilation box set of CDs with many Jazz covers of Broadway Musical themes along the lines of what nax suggests.
posted by Eringatang at 8:38 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by Eringatang at 8:38 AM on January 2, 2008
Check out the Miles Davis Quintet recordings from the 50's - Relaxin', Smokin', Cookin', and Workin'. Each one is a nice combination of standards (from Bway repetoire) and contemporary (for then) Jazz.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 9:00 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by fingers_of_fire at 9:00 AM on January 2, 2008
I went through a musical-hating period too. I started out never really liking "classic" stuff like Singing in the Rain or Oklahoma--too schmaltzy and goody-goody for me. I went through a Les Miserables and Phantom of the Opera period and then got sick of that over-the-top, dramatic kind too.
What got me back into it was Little Shop of Horrors. It's dark, tongue-in-cheek, and not Sondheim-level of lyric or musical greatness but very fun to listen to. And I nth the suggestion of Sondheim. Complex melodies and lyrics make it very different from Miss Saigon-like sweeping, shallow scores.
posted by Anonymous at 11:54 AM on January 2, 2008
What got me back into it was Little Shop of Horrors. It's dark, tongue-in-cheek, and not Sondheim-level of lyric or musical greatness but very fun to listen to. And I nth the suggestion of Sondheim. Complex melodies and lyrics make it very different from Miss Saigon-like sweeping, shallow scores.
posted by Anonymous at 11:54 AM on January 2, 2008
I too hate most musicals.
I did theatre all throughout grade school (not musicals, though, thankfully), and was even president of the drama club. Spending so much time in rehearsals, contest days, etc., where everyone could not stop playing Broadway soundtracks and singing along made me want to barf. Seriously. I didn't hate musicals before then, but I was never that into them.
I will say, though, I do like some rock musicals as long as they use good singers who do not sing in an over-the-top Broadway style. I also like some jazzy musicals as well (like Fosse).
Perhaps why some people don't like musicals or find them annoying is because of the incredible earnestness that most of them have. Perhaps we're too cynical.
posted by fructose at 12:23 PM on January 2, 2008
I did theatre all throughout grade school (not musicals, though, thankfully), and was even president of the drama club. Spending so much time in rehearsals, contest days, etc., where everyone could not stop playing Broadway soundtracks and singing along made me want to barf. Seriously. I didn't hate musicals before then, but I was never that into them.
I will say, though, I do like some rock musicals as long as they use good singers who do not sing in an over-the-top Broadway style. I also like some jazzy musicals as well (like Fosse).
Perhaps why some people don't like musicals or find them annoying is because of the incredible earnestness that most of them have. Perhaps we're too cynical.
posted by fructose at 12:23 PM on January 2, 2008
oh and by Fosse, I mean shows he choreographed, not the musical called Fosse.
posted by fructose at 12:23 PM on January 2, 2008
posted by fructose at 12:23 PM on January 2, 2008
Cole Porter and Noel Coward wrote musicals. Need I say more?
SAY NO MORE. I heard Elaine Stritch do some Noel Coward songs tonight. MY LIFE IS COMPLETE. Go, AreaControl, go! Get thee to a record store!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:34 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
SAY NO MORE. I heard Elaine Stritch do some Noel Coward songs tonight. MY LIFE IS COMPLETE. Go, AreaControl, go! Get thee to a record store!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:34 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Alright. First thing's first. Get a copy of "The Wedding Singer," Broadway Cast recording. You already know the story, Stephen Lynch is hillarious and it's modern.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 9:29 PM on January 2, 2008
posted by thebrokenmuse at 9:29 PM on January 2, 2008
My girlfriend loves musicals; I don't, for pretty much the reasons outlined above (I vaguely remember some famous quote about writing plays - "One can't simply have one's characters walk onto the stage and announce how they feel!" - but this is what seems to happen in pretty much every musical number).
The musicals I've enjoyed have mostly had something to make me like them besides the show itself. I liked "Cats" because I've liked the poems for a long time. Plus, I had a few drinks before which made the surrealism quite entertaining. I liked the musical "War of the Worlds" because I'm a huge fan of the book, plus the sound is very different to most musicals - very instrumental, very little singing, lots of guitar/synth. So maybe you need to find a musical that has some connection for you beyond the show itself.
posted by primer_dimer at 3:09 AM on January 3, 2008
The musicals I've enjoyed have mostly had something to make me like them besides the show itself. I liked "Cats" because I've liked the poems for a long time. Plus, I had a few drinks before which made the surrealism quite entertaining. I liked the musical "War of the Worlds" because I'm a huge fan of the book, plus the sound is very different to most musicals - very instrumental, very little singing, lots of guitar/synth. So maybe you need to find a musical that has some connection for you beyond the show itself.
posted by primer_dimer at 3:09 AM on January 3, 2008
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With that said, I really like dance--modern, hip-hop, ballet, whatever. Weird, huh?
Without knowing what you've seen it makes it hard to give you suggestions. Rent makes me want to barf, same with Hairspray and The Music Man and Bye Bye Birdie and oh so many more chunks of crap. I know someone's going to have an issue with that statement. Oh well.
Musicals where the music isn't obtrusive and flows seamlessly into the storyline are the ones I like, especially the tragedies and dramatic. Fiddler has got to be the best musical ever performed. I love that show. Narnia is surprisingly good too, but it's completely different. Les Mis...tends to be overdone with method actors, but it's a compelling story. When I was young, I saw Oklahoma and loved it--but I might have an issue with it today.
posted by TomMelee at 7:33 PM on January 1, 2008