Everybody's ahead of me!

December 22, 2007 5:41 PM

I'm finally going to college four years after I was supposed to get out of high school. Please tell me you've done it too, and everything worked out!

In the winter of 2004, due to a variety of family issues with a healthy dose of stupidity, I decided to drop out of high school. I got my GED a few months later, and have worked in the construction industry doing OK. I've taken a few classes since then, doing very well at them, and at the urging of my girlfriend, decided to apply to the state college (UCONN, for what it's worth). To my surprise, they accepted me, and I'll be headed to Storrs in a few weeks.

My problem is that I feel nervous about "starting over". Most of the friends I had in high school are now discussing plans for the rest of their lives, job offers and med school and it just makes me depressed about the fact that I started off so much later than them, and that by the time I graduate they'll have worked in their selected industry for several years. I have a (hopefully) irrational fear that I'll never catch up to them.

I know (think) that I'm not the only one who has started college a little later than expected, and was just hoping to hear from a few people that have done the same or something similar.

posted by QuarterlyProphet to education (41 comments total)

I started at university 23 years after my peers. I won a cash prize for highest GPA in my cohort in first year. My current GPA is the equivalent of a US 3.97. I'm studying full time via distance education, and working part-time and raising teenagers. If it's too late for you, then I'm fucked.

So please don't compare yourself to others. This is not a race. We don't start out equal. The question really is, is education right now the best possible option for your life? Will it improve your quality of life? Will you enjoy it? These are the questions you should be asking, not how can I catch up to the people who did things in the most popular order?

What's say I tell you that you will never catch up to those peers? What are you going to do? Not go to school? Take on a laboring job, because sheesh, if you can't be the best or the first, then life isn't worth living?

For a lot of people, higher education makes a lot more sense after their hormones settle down. It means they can concentrate on learning, rather than drinking and having sex. They actually get MORE out of the experience than the people who went straight from school.

You'll make new friends, some younger, some older, who are choosing life paths that make sense to them, not because it's what they're supposed to do.

Oh, short answer - yeah, it's worth it. Go for it. What's the alternative, eh?
posted by b33j at 6:00 PM on December 22, 2007 [4 favorites]

Take as many evening classes as UCONN offers: you will be surprised by the age spread and perhaps enjoy the more mature attitudes.
posted by francesca too at 6:06 PM on December 22, 2007

I worked & studied intermittently at JC for several years before going to university (and worked full-time while I studied there, too, and eventually graduated much later than I would have were I not to have worked).

It worked out just fine.
posted by luriete at 6:08 PM on December 22, 2007

I haven't done it, but I teach, and I have had a few students in your (soon-to-be) position. They've invariably been focused on their work, less distracted by social pressures than my usual undergraduates, and to all appearances simply enjoyed their work more. Your friends are likely behind you in the maturity department, and trying to catch up under pressure. Compared to that, mastering some coursework is not so tough. You'll do fine.
posted by Wolfdog at 6:16 PM on December 22, 2007

I went to college immediately after high school like everyone else, and it's a decision I regret. I didn't know what I was doing there, I changed my major several times, got mediocre grades, and then didn't use the degree to get a job in any meaningful sense for a long time.

So-called non-traditional students like yourself tend to be more focused and get better grades. That's because they've already been to the real world, and they know exactly what they're doing in college. Don't feel bad about going to college on your own terms and in your own time, and don't apologize for it.
posted by bingo at 6:17 PM on December 22, 2007

I drank my way out of college when I went the first time, right out of high school. I didn't go back until I had worked several jobs that sucked. I was 25. I just finished my Masters in December. If I can do it, so can you. Here would be my advice.

First and foremost, enjoy it! College is awesome! You get to decide what you are studying and you get to choose your classes accordingly. Take classes to get your degree but more then that, take classes that interest you.

Meet people. There will be other people just like you there, people that didn't go right of high school. So don't worry.

Stay on top of your school work. I found that having some kind of planner was essential to making a plan. Anything works really, just make sure you have a plan for your semesters. If you don't watch your deadlines, nobody else will. If you run into problems, ask a prof for help!

You will have something that most of the other students don't. Life experience. Once you have your degree, you will have more to offer then those without your experience.

If you have anything specific, feel free to ask. But don't worry. Relax and enjoy it. And congratulations on going back to school. An education is the only thing you can earn that nobody can take away from you. You just can't measure what it will do for you. It won't always be easy, but it is WELL worth it.
posted by Silvertree at 6:22 PM on December 22, 2007

Congratulations. You are doing exactly the right thing. I did college in fits and starts, so while I did enter university right out of HS graduation, I'd be lying if I said I was ready for it at that point in my life. So I've kind of been in your shoes, if maybe not the exact same pair of shoes you're wearing now.

Nerves are healthy and expected; they'll keep you on your toes. Don't let them get the better of you. Since you are a bit older and world-wise, understand right away that all the shit that might have seemed to matter when you were 17 or 18 -- being cool, partying all night, goofing off -- hopefully is of minimal importance to you now and this perspective can only benefit you. This means that you should take advantage of every single resource your university throws at you in order to help you succeed. Definite do's: talk to your professors, advisors and anybody who has the same academic goals as you as often as you can. Cultivate these relationships. Don't be the person who they only see on the first day of registration and the week before graduation. Use your library as much as you can, get comfortable there, make friendly contact with the reference librarians who are being paid to facilitate your ability to do in-depth projects. Join organizations on campus to meet people and extend your interests. Heck -- join organizations that you would have blown off in another life, to make friends and have another point of view to balance your own. If you are commuting (versus living on campus), if it is possible, don't show up for your first class and leave the minute your last class finishes for the day - figure out what is there for everybody, be it the student union or art gallery or job center. Get comfortable in the whole place, not just the handful of buildings you have to be at five days a week.

Stay busy. Oddly enough, the more I was busy with extracurriculars, the better my grades were. Go figure. I think it was because I was forced to manage my time scrupulously to make everything fit in. Once I dropped some of the outside stuff, I slacked in other areas as well.

Last -- have an awesome time. Be yourself. Don't apologize, either in your words or your actions, for your 'nontraditional' route. I think you might be amazed at how common situations like yours are. Don't ever feel like you deserve your learning less because you're a few years older than most of the incoming freshman. That's crazy. If anything else, you're likely to take a whole lot more meaningful stuff away from the experience than they can.
posted by brain cloud at 6:36 PM on December 22, 2007

I dropped out of college at 19, returned at 27, and graduated at 32. I can't begin to tell you how much more I got out of the experience the second time around. As an adult, I was able to approach the material with real interest, and not just as more facts to cram down. College was a pleasure as an adult student, whereas it felt like an obligation as a teenager.

Joining the workforce as a new grad in my 30s felt a bit awkward, but I was in no way hampered by it. In fact, I found that my degree combined with my pre-college life experience gave me a bit of an edge in the job market. Now 9 years later, I'm completely caught up—all my work peers are my age. Given the opportunity to go back and change my past, I'd stick with a later college experience.
posted by Failure31 at 6:36 PM on December 22, 2007

My sister returned to college after a few years off and it was really the totally right thing to do. She spent more time picking the right school not just going because she felt she had to go and she found that her extra yars put her in a good position to take on some responsibility like being an RA. She thrived when she went back ad the age difference between her and her friends who would have been graduating with her wasn't such a big deal. It really feels like a big deal when you're in your early 20s, but a lot of people don't go straight through in four years so being a slightly different age as other graduates is not a big deal. Good luck!
posted by jessamyn at 6:43 PM on December 22, 2007

I got my GED, never went to college, am entirely self-taught, and make well over six figures in the computer industry. Now thinking of going back to school to get a degree in my worst subject (mathematics), which I was never good at. Don't worry about it.
posted by arimathea at 6:49 PM on December 22, 2007

I started university three years after high school and never thought much of it. You'll probably be working for a good part of the rest of your life, so why rush into a career and all that? Just imagine yourself at fifty: I highly doubt you'll regret starting college a few years later than your peers then.
posted by ssg at 6:52 PM on December 22, 2007

I dropped out of college during my third semester and didn't start up again until few years later. I remember feeling like you do; many of my friends were graduating just as I was starting over, and for a while I felt this weird sense of urgency, like I needed to rush to catch up with them. But those feelings soon passed and I began to relax and really enjoy being in school again.

It might help to keep in mind that there's not a simple equation that describes one's post-college trajectory; that is, the amount of time passed since graduation doesn't necessarily correspond to one's level of success (however you define success). Some folks will do great things immediately; others will do them eventually; others will never amount to anything.

But really, you'll be happiest if you stop comparing yourself to your friends and just focus on enjoying and kicking ass at school. For what it's worth, I think you'll find yourself at an advantage over many of your classmates when you graduate; your maturity and work experience will be valuable assets, whatever career you choose.

Good luck!
posted by medpt at 7:04 PM on December 22, 2007

I started medical school in my hometown. War started and I had to quit when they closed to school for safety. By the time I made it to America, I decided I'd seen too much blood to ever do a medical degree - plus I had to learn English from the start. So when I started college in America, I was around your age. It didn't matter a bit; I made loads of friends and fit in perfectly. My years of living without school made me more mature and probably more interesting. You'll do fine, and you're years away from being too late. Have fun, and congratulations!
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 7:16 PM on December 22, 2007

I graduated from night school Portland State University in 2004. I graduated high school in 1998. The intervening years were spent working full time, going to community college, trying two other majors, and pretty much everything except what I should've been doing, which was just plowing through a degree so I could be done with it.

If you can find a school that offers some night programs, the night classes are usually filled by people who are older and a LOT more serious about learning.
posted by SpecialK at 7:21 PM on December 22, 2007

I dropped out of college after my first semester at age 18. I stayed away for a fewyears, then transferred to a state school with a better reputation. I wanted to get a 'normal' college experience like you see in the movies, but I was worried that I wouldn't fit in because of my age. By the time I started I was 22 but essentially still a freshman.

It was fine, it was great. I was much more motivated to do well my second time around and didn't have any problems finding a niche for mysel. I graduated after four 'regular' years and it was never a problem. Academically I did much better than the 18 year old me could possibly have managed, and socially I was just a couple years older than most of my friends.

Good luck, have fun!
posted by bluejayk at 7:43 PM on December 22, 2007

My brother went to college when he was 26 and loved it. You will do awesome. Enjoy and try not to overthink it.
posted by sneakin at 8:08 PM on December 22, 2007

Seconding Wolfdog- your professors are going to be thrilled to have a student with your maturity, focus, perspective, and dedication.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 8:27 PM on December 22, 2007

congratulations for making the decision to return..

I took three years out due to the draft, returned to school to get the best grades I had ever achieved.

my son... dropped out of high school, spent a few years driving a truck....then went back to school, managed a 4 point... went on to be very successful...

hang in there!
posted by HuronBob at 8:38 PM on December 22, 2007

I just finished my first semester of freshman year at the age of 25. I joined the Navy out of high school and now I'm out with all this college money so I'm using it.

I definitely felt nervous my first day because I thought I would be unable to relate to 18 year olds, which is somewhat true. Actually, I only had one class full of freshmen and that was English 101, so if that's an issue for you, I recommend an evening class to avoid the youngins. You should realize, like I did, that there's always someone older than you going to school and working on their degree. I'm sure you still look like an 18 year old so this really shouldn't be an issue.

As for the fear of being behind your friends, I have that feeling too. Others have mentioned it but taking a break from learning between high school and college is definitely worth it. I took 17 credits this semester, including physics, calculus, and chemistry, and I got a 4.0 gpa, and I haven't been in a classroom in 7 years! My point is, I really don't think I cared much about my education when I was 18 and now I take it really serious. I can see with others that I have class with or study with, the dedication to learning just isn't there.

Also, try to live a healthy lifestyle. Someone may be 3-4 years ahead of you now, but imagine 50 years from now when you're running marathons and they're eating Doritos on a bean bag chair. Good luck with school and have a good time!
posted by hammerthyme at 8:38 PM on December 22, 2007

Started at 28, ten years after I was "supposed to," was awarded a master's degree two days ago. (Yessssssss!)

It can be done, it has been done, there's a fair argument to be made that the way you are doing it is considerably wiser. Best of luck to you.
posted by jennyjenny at 8:46 PM on December 22, 2007

If you enjoyed the construction industry somewhat, keep in mind that you could study something related (say construction management, civil engineering) and your experience as low man on the totem poll might actually give you a leg up when you graduate.
posted by Jahaza at 8:48 PM on December 22, 2007

One of my roommates my sophmore year was 76 years old. She was *awesome*. It's never too late, plus you'll have more real world experience to apply to what you're learning than someone straight out of high school who has never had to deal with "the real world."
posted by susanbeeswax at 8:53 PM on December 22, 2007

I did it on the ten-year plan - graduated from high school in 1993 and college in 2003. I did two years of a really impractical major at a very expensive private university right out of high school.

When I went back in 1999, I discovered that my brain had finally figured out important concepts that had previously eluded me like "organization" and "study skills." I was suddenly, to my complete surprise, an A student. I found I really cared about learning the material so I could use it in the future, and not only because it was going to be on a test.

Four years later, I finished with a 3.97 GPA, a slew of awards, no debt because of a string of merit scholarships, and both a major and a degree that really meant something to me.

I'm glad I waited and went back. Learning to be a good student - a skilled learner - did a great deal for me.
posted by jocelmeow at 9:07 PM on December 22, 2007

I have been in college since 2001, changing my majors are a total of 2 times. This year has been the first year when I am registered for a major that I absolutely enjoy, have the time to balance school and family, and am no longer pressured by my parents. I would have to honestly say it has been frustrating and joyful at the same time. It is very difficult to balance college, work, a marriage, and a child....and at times, I wanted to give up and actually left college for a whole year because I thought knocking that off my to do list would get me sane again. However, I ending missing it, I missed learning, I missed the intelligent discussion...but I was heavily pressured by my parents when it came to college and I wanted to come back for me. I wanted to be a good role model for my little girl.

I am taking something I find interesting and the professors, who are quite different in terms of teaching style (to my appreciation) and I am much more mature than a teenager, so I feel more confident that I have more to offer because I have had so many experiences outside of school. Society has a way of ingraining development stages that are required for us to accomplish at given ages/points of our lives. I think that is completely unfair and unnecessary. Life happens. People get married, have babies, take on different interests and priorities change. That does not mean they are losing sight of the importance of a higher education, but I definitely understand how things can happen and alter the stereotypical path of high school, then college, then a job, then marriage, then babies.

I wish you well in your new adventure. Going back is tough. You don't want to seem like the old fogey and it is very easy to feel out of place amongst the college crowd. Just consider that you have a greater appreciation for time and experience and learning now. Most kids in college are there for partying and dating and spending mommy and daddy's money. I believe that going back prepares one for the proper mindset to achieve in college.

Good luck!
posted by dnthomps at 9:25 PM on December 22, 2007

A friend of mine dropped out of high school when she was 17. After a couple years off, she started school again. She is a junior now, and is one of the most successful and determined students I know.
posted by indyz at 9:58 PM on December 22, 2007

Nthing the people who are telling you that you're at an advantage here.

Thanks to your greater life experience, you'll focus and do better and you'll probably laugh at some of the sillier things that the younger students are worried about.
posted by rokusan at 10:02 PM on December 22, 2007

After a lot of dicking around at my local JC, I was accepted into a bachelors program at the age of 25. I turn 27 next year and will be done with school altogether 6 months after that (it's an accelerated program).

I believe that I am doing much better now at school than I would have if I'd come in straight out of high school. I have actually seen some of the people who do come in fresh off the quad crash and burn during mid-terms. They don't quite get that it's a more serious thing and the rest of their life hangs on how well they do. Us "old fogies" are usually the ones who end up getting hit up for tutoring or advice when the "young'uns" slack off to go to the kegger.

It's never too late to start your education. Be proud that you have taken that step. Forget what everyone else is doing and focus on your own work. Because at the end of the day, the only person you have to worry about is yourself. :-)
posted by arishaun at 10:02 PM on December 22, 2007

You're good. Take advantage of the fact that you're a little older and a little more expeiienced and a little more cultured. Have you hung out with 19 and 20 year olds recently? Damn, but... ye know.

This applies to both classes and social life.

In classes - participate. You're life experiences will be appreciate by the professors, and the ability to call bullshit will endear you with the rest of the class. On the social life-aspect, slightly older students got more, ahem, 'attention.'

School isn't (well, it is, but....) about just getting a certification; it's about learning and about learning about yourself. Make the most of it. You're paying your professors; they're there to help you learn. Outside of class-time is still valid time to learn from them. Don't worry about contradicting them; if they're worth their salt, they'll either refute you or learn from you and teach you something at the same time.

Good luck!

I 'wasted' two years working in industry and 'wasted' 3&1/2 years on a MSc in a horrible horrible horrible environment in a crappy field, and I'm 1&1/2 years into a PhD in neuroscience - yes, there's a ton (several metrics, of, not just an imperial) of suck, but it's a path that I can see a light at the end of, maybe.
posted by porpoise at 10:29 PM on December 22, 2007 [1 favorite]

My SO has followed pretty much the same arc as jocelmeow, and made the same discoveries it seems, a few years later. She dropped out the first time around, worked for a number of years, then went back to school at a community college, got a degree, and is now working on a PhD at Enormous State University. She loves it, and her age has only been an advantage. This time around, she not only has those organizational and work habits that you develop in the real world, she also knows what she wants to study.

I think once you get back to school, you'll find there are a lot of people who've followed a path to college other than straight-out-of-high-school.
posted by hattifattener at 11:14 PM on December 22, 2007

I'm 25 and I've just finished my first term back at University. Starting at 17 I did a few terms of a pre-med program that I loathed and then realized I had no idea what I really wanted to do with my life so I took 6 years off and grew up a bit.

You have such an advantage. Having that life experience outside of an academic environment allows you to appreciate the education you're getting and it has given you the skills you need to succeed. You will feel isolated from the teen social environment that's happening around you, but you're a grown-up! You have a life outside of the popularity-driven posturing undergrad scene that's so much like high school.

As for your friends who are starting their lives now, once you're deep into schooling they're going to be looking at you and wishing they were in your position. Don't worry about "catching up" to others, worry about meeting your own goals.

You are doing an extremely good thing here, focus on the learning and it'll be amazing.
posted by rhinny at 11:34 PM on December 22, 2007

I took nine years to get through my bachelors, and then ended up changing fields in the last semester. I don't regret it at all. In fact, I wouldn't have had it any other way. I learned so much and it all influenced me in some way, personally and professionally.

I've gone on to complete my Masters which is in a completely different field than my undergraduate degree and am now applying all that I've learned previously. While in graduate school, one of my peers was 82 years old! It's never too late!

Bottom line - Do whatever you feel is best for you, trust yourself, and enjoy the journey along the way. You've got lots of time.
posted by healthyliving at 11:41 PM on December 22, 2007

Like many posters in this thread, I wish I had the good sense to start college a few years later. I ended up doing fine, but for the first two years I was too busy figuring out how to do my own laundry to really invest myself in school. You have good sense of who you are as an adult, and how to function like one, so you'll do great. As for "catching up": try to think of college as the next chapter in your flourishing as a human being, rather than career steroids.
posted by limon at 11:50 PM on December 22, 2007

I envy the people that took time off between high school & college. On the whole, they seem much more balanced and together. Four years is a bit longer than most of them took, but it really doesn't matter - do well, get your degree, start off in your field, and, if you're in a fast-paced industry, companies may well hire you over your friends because your degree is more current. Oh, and everyone at school will love you, because you can buy the freshmen/sophomores/a lot of juniors booze.
posted by devilsbrigade at 11:53 PM on December 22, 2007

In 4 years, you will be 4 years older whether you have a degree or not. Is it better to be 4 years older with the degree or without it?
posted by The Deej at 12:21 AM on December 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

I have a (hopefully) irrational fear that I'll never catch up to them.

I had this same fear about comparing myself to my high school classmates who DIDN'T go directly to college like I did, and were already in established jobs by the time I graduated. Granted, the jobs weren't fantastic careers, but four years after high school, they had savings accounts, nice cars, and a real "life", while I had debt, no place of my own, a cheap little car and was starting at the bottom in my chosen field.

So, you never know, your friends might be envying you. And in a few years, it will all even out.

Good luck!
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:07 AM on December 23, 2007

I taught at UConn Storrs for two years, while I did my MA. When I taught older students, they were generally more serious and didn't give me shit excuses for not doing their work. I liked them, generally. (Some of the moms tended to try to drag everything around to their family in discussions, which was boring.)

Don't try to act too much like the other undergrads. A significant portion of them there are there because their parents told them they had to go to college. In their fourth semester, they still didn't have any focus.

As long as you know what you're there for - the nursing students were generally great, as were the hard sciences - then you're golden. There are definitely opportunities to do a lot that's fun without fucking up, and you probably have the maturity they don't (such as not fucking texting in class.)

As a side note, please do remember that your grad student TAs - and you might be older than some - are trying their best, generally. If they aren't, talk to them first, and then the prof. Use the office hours.

As for the irrational fear of not catching up, I have that still. But a lot of it is that the successful ones are going to talk more about their accomplishments. All your friends who are still doing temp work don't talk about it.
posted by cobaltnine at 7:23 AM on December 23, 2007

Left high school HATING school. HATING it. So, much to the disappointment of my parents, I did not go to college.

Fast-forward to age 38. After years of being a Jill-of-all-trades, I decide to go to college after all. Turns out I loved it and had no trouble getting good grades. I graduated magna cum laude and am now getting a Master's. Me, the school-hater!

Going to college as an adult because you want to is a whole other ball of wax than going as a teenager because Mommy and Daddy expect you to. In fact, I think more people would benefit from delaying college for at least a few years until they gain maturity and some real-life experience.

My tips for college success: A community college to start with and then transferring to a smaller school might work better than going to a huge state flagship, if possible. The quality of education is often better, and you get more personal interaction with your profs and fellow students. Show up to class every day and take notes - believe me, it makes it a LOT easier when the time comes to take tests. If your school has an academic support center, go there. Mine does, staffed by wonderful people who have helped me so much in the paper-writing department. Talk to your profs and get to know them. Get internships if you can. And good luck! College is often wasted on children and is far, far better for adults.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:21 AM on December 23, 2007

I'd pick a best answer here, but just about every post was incredibly helpful to me and my sanity. I had been feeling good about this in October, but as the weeks have gone by and as I've talked with friends in college over the winter break, I've just gotten jittery. Thank you all for calming me down.
posted by QuarterlyProphet at 8:59 AM on December 23, 2007

Last little thought.

Think of the idiots when you're at school going through the 'first time away from home' and 'OOH ALCOHOL' (and even OOOH DRUGS.)

You wont' do that. You're focused. Make sure you enjoy yourself a bit.
posted by filmgeek at 3:51 PM on December 23, 2007

My husband did this. He went back to college and graduated from private university at 28.

On the one hand, it was good. He was very focused, knew exactly what he was doing, knew that he was playing a game to get a degree. He'd seen what life was like without the degree and he didn't want that. I always was envious that he could be so clear.

On the other hand, it was the start of a lifetime of being behind. It was hard to connect and make friends with 19 year olds. It was hard to even date. His social life usually revolved around the jobs he was working to put himself through school. And sometimes it was hard to get everything done that needed to get done. It was also hard for him to fully connect to campus life-- he was too old for most of that stuff. Also, to be honest, he did not keep in touch with his friends from high school, I think the comparisons you are talking about were too hard on him, he felt like he had nothing in common.

I want to elaborate a little on the "lifetime of being behind" comment. Starting early is the key to success in most any field. Try really hard to pick a field as early as you can in your college career and focus on it with internships, part-time jobs, etc. If you don't know what you want, you don't know what you want and don't force it, but try to pick something if you can. Can you graduate a year, a semester early? Don't kid yourself, you have time to make up. It might be 10 years before you can "catch up" to people who graduated when you feel you "should have." Try to be savvy about picking a field that doesn't eat it's young or where people do tend to be older. My husband made the mistake of entering a field where if people were 32 and not senior management, the perception was that something was wrong with them. He found he couldn't get promoted. He has to try to get everything a little earlier now, he has to try to get promoted, he has to aggressively seek out increased responsibility. His 2 immediate bosses are still younger than him by 3 years. He's still behind.

Try not to compare yourself to your former peers. You needed to live your life on this path. This is the best choice you could have made. Those years were not wasted. You will probably always feel a little behind, but you need to take the extra life experience you have and make it work for you. Don't beat yourself up about what might have been.
posted by Mozzie at 8:40 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Good luck, and congrats for taking this route. I started med school at 33 so I know what it's like to be older than one's peers. I think you will find that your maturity and experience will give you a great sense of balance and you will work harder because your choice was that much more deliberate and means more to you. You will do fine. Have fun and enjoy!
posted by anitanita at 8:13 PM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]