Dual-personality dogs.

December 16, 2007 3:52 AM

What to do about a normally friendly dog, who has a bloodlust for veterinarians?

We have a three-year old border collie x german shepherd. He is, to us, an incredibly friendly, tolerant dog. He normally doesn't mind other, new dogs, as long a they don't try to attack him first. He has a bit of a guard-dog mentality when visitors come to our house, but once we've introduced them and they've thrown a tennis ball to him a few times, they've got a friend for life.

However, whenever we have to take him to the vets, he becomes incredibly anxious about the other dogs in the surgery, and extremely aggressive towards the vet. He has tried to bite three of them, so far, and the last time we tried to take him he was completely unmanagable - the vet ended up giving us some ACP sedatives to try on him next time, and sending us on our way. He is a big dog, and I can understand vets not wanting to deal with him.

As a result of this, he hasn't had his vaccinations this year, and has in the last week developed a rash and some hair loss that we really need to get checked out. We have an appointment booked on Tuesday - besides giving him the sedatives before we go, does anyone have any suggestions on how we can manage him? How well do ACP tablets work? We have tried using a muzzle at the vets, but he becomes so anxious that he still struggles and has managed to pull it off in the past. Of course, we try to explain to the vets that "He's such a wonderful dog at home!" but I get the feeling they don't believe it. We called a mobile vet out once, but he went and hid and became anxious when cornered, so that doesn't seem to be a workable idea either.

It is extremely sad if a pet we love very much, and who is an extremely lovely dog to us, won't ever be able to visit a vet again for his vaccinations or for other problems - in the long term, what can we do about this?

posted by Jimbob to pets & animals (21 comments total)

1) Call back and schedule the appointment for the time when they have the fewest other animals in the waiting room. Ask them when to show up so you have the least wait for your dog. Ask if there's anything else you can do like filling out some of the paper work at home or sending someone else inside for the paperwork before you even get your dog out of the car. Ask if you can specifically have a vet who owns/is accustomed to dogs, a vet who also works at an animal shelter or another place where they have dogs who are nervous around humans would be a bonus. (In fact if going to the vet this time fails, you should call the closest shelter next and ask which vet they would recommend for a very, very nervous dog... I'm betting there's one specifically who has the golden touch with panicky dogs.)

2) Take some sedatives, he's probably picking up on you freaking out. Downward spiral and all...

3) Don't forget a favourite toy or treat, preferably something that you don't give him often, preferably something that he'll stay still and chew on.

It sounds (just imho) like the key is going to be breaking this cycle, both for you and your dog, and after both of you have one good experience the whole thing is going to become a lot easier.
posted by anaelith at 4:37 AM on December 16, 2007

OK, not sedatives, really. But whatever makes you calm. Have someone else drive and do sudukos in the car, or do breathing exercises. Avoid sodas and sugar.
posted by anaelith at 4:45 AM on December 16, 2007

Thanks analith; the vet has already scheduled my dog at a time there aren't any other ones coming into the surgery (she knows him too well). As for treats - well this vet always gives dogs treats anyway to keep them happy, but he's so worked up he isn't even interested in them. However, I'll try to bring something from home - his obsession with tennis balls may be useful.
posted by Jimbob at 4:47 AM on December 16, 2007

Can you get a muzzle for going to the vet? It might make it easier for everyone.
posted by miss tea at 4:48 AM on December 16, 2007

(This is the vicious brute in question, by the way.)
posted by Jimbob at 4:51 AM on December 16, 2007

miss tea, we have in the past used a muzzle the vet provides, but he managed to slip it off. Maybe I'll go shop for a better one.
posted by Jimbob at 4:52 AM on December 16, 2007

He is adorable!!!!
posted by miss tea at 4:59 AM on December 16, 2007

Ditto, he's absolutely gorgeous!

Seconding the "breaking the cycle" and well-fitting muzzle ideas (much as I dislike them), but do get him used to it before the vet trip if you can.

For our now sadly departed and much missed gsd, I had his favourite treat* "accidentally fall" out of the muzzle a few times through the morning before putting it on him the first time and although he never liked it, it was very reassuring to be able to put it on occasionally when the need arose.

* tiny cubes of strong cheddar cheese
posted by ceri richard at 5:20 AM on December 16, 2007

IANAdogexpert, just a dog owner. The aggression is coming from stress and fear, and yes, if Pup's past behavior has made it so you're also tense and nervous now, then that's feeding into it. This is probably going to take longterm behavioral reconditioning on your part, but here are a few things that may help:

1) Take Pup for a long, long, brisk walk before going to the vet, to tire him out -- and calm you down.

2) Practice with the muzzle at home, frequently, for brief periods, and get him to associate it with happy times, rewards, and calm, quiet behavior. If the only time he ever sees a muzzle is when he goes to the Horrible Scary Vet . . . well, you get the picture.

3) Get various people he knows, as well as some he doesn't, to come over to your house (or take him to friends' houses) and handle him in the ways the vet does at a check-up. They can pretend to check his heart and breathing, look in his ears, etc.

4) Practice taking him to the vet's office a bunch of times -- just stopping by, sniffing around the parking area, going in and out of the waiting room, just saying hi to the staff, etc. With treats. I made my vet's office a constant socialization stop on my Getting to Know the World trips with all my dogs when they were pups, and they do still get a bit nervous or keyed-up there, but not aggressively freaked out. Continue taking Pup to vet's office all year 'round, at various times of day, for various lengths of time.

5) The sedatives may or may not work. Some animals will fight tranquilizers, especially in stressful situations.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:25 AM on December 16, 2007 [2 favorites]

Some Vets make house calls. Look around.
posted by Gungho at 5:43 AM on December 16, 2007

Ditto the training suggestion. It's hard to train a dog to remember a place he only goes once or twice a year, so a series of visits and reinforcement could help a lot. But also, doesn't your vet have a restraint system or at least a lot of techs to hold on to jumpy dogs? I would be surprised if they didn't. It won't hurt your dog -- of course he won't like it, but it will only be for a couple minutes, and you'll be able to get him the health care he needs.

One other thing -- since he's missed his shots this year, you might want to get him a heartworm test before taking him in for his next round of shots. According to my dog's vet, if a dog has contracted heartworm during the time he was unprotected, giving him the shot can be harmful. Ask the vet if they want you to bring in a stool sample ahead of time so you don't have to make a second trip to the vet for his heartworm shot.

Also regarding the rash -- what kind of food are you feeding him? If any of the primary ingredients are corn, that could be contributing to the rash and hair loss. Of course you should still get it checked out at the vet, but switching him to a better food might help the rash, and is always beneficial to the dog. Check out Dog Food Analysis for explanations and food ratings.
posted by boomchicka at 6:06 AM on December 16, 2007

This may sound silly, but I've seen it work. In addition to wearing him out before the visit, etc...does the vet wear a white coat (or something other than street clothes)? Sometimes just having the vet come into the room looking like a regular person helps. We did this with a couple of patients in a clinic I worked at, and it worked like a charm. Something about the white doctor's coat...

I also think finding a vet that makes house calls isn't a bad idea.
posted by bolognius maximus at 7:16 AM on December 16, 2007

A house-call vet is indeed a great idea, but unfortunately, the OP said that they already tried that.

I'm not sure why it didn't work, though, since the dog warms up to visitors in general. Maybe explain when making the appointment that the doctor will need to spend some extra time with the dog before the examination?

Muzzles: a dog shouldn't be able to get out of a properly-fitted muzzle. Would the dog be manageable if his teeth were out of the picture? If so, that (and perhaps the sedatives) sounds like the easiest and cheapest solution. Of course, the muzzle would disallow a mouth exam, which is pretty important. Still, the overall exam would be much better than no exam!

A more labor intensive, more expensive solution would be getting him some training. A really good class, possibly private (only if he misbehaves in a group, as having more people around would probably be better for him). These dogs that go through a few months of training can behave really amazingly in the end. If you can train him to not bark, or jump, or whatever, those skills should work in the vet's office as well. I think training is a fantastic idea for any dog, as I think it improves the human/dog relationship. It's not about cattle-prodding an animal to do what you want it to do, it's about learning a way to communicate with the animal. People say it's a great bonding experience.

Also: is the problem related to the poking and prodding? Might the dog benefit from more "hands-on" time with guests, to get him used to being touched by others? (I know, being touched by others isn't really the same as having a thermometer shoved up your butt.)

I have greyhounds, and all greyhounds have been manhandled their whole lives. That part was an unexpected bonus when I adopted mine. Just the other day, one of them had her butt probed not once, but three times at the vet's office, and she just stood there like a statue. So I admit I can't relate to the problem as well as I'd like. :) (She did whimper a bit the second time.) My point is that it so *sounds* so, "What, you can't get him in *once* a year?" thing, but I know from what you're saying that it really is bad. Good luck!
posted by iguanapolitico at 8:04 AM on December 16, 2007

House calls have been tried. From the OP: "We called a mobile vet out once, but he went and hid and became anxious when cornered, so that doesn't seem to be a workable idea either."

Can you learn to give shots yourself? (Obviously, after learning proper technique from a vet, and exploring the legalities in your area, etc., etc.) Or perhaps just get a syringe that you can practice with at home and get the dog accustomed to it.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:09 AM on December 16, 2007

Also regarding the rash -- what kind of food are you feeding him?

Regarding the rash; we have been away on holidays the last two weeks, and have had someone around housesitting and looking after him. When we got back, he had a patchy ratch on various parts of his body (back, chest, tail, legs) with hair loss - unless the person we had housesitting is lying to us, he's been fed the same diet we normlly feed him (a mix of a canned food he likes, dry biscuits, and raw chicken necks). We do live in the tropics, with lots of interesting dieseases and insects, so I feel that's more likely.

Regarding the house calls iguanapolitico, while it doesn't take long for him to get used to guests normally, he doesn't immediately trust someone enough to go poking and prodding him, so that is part of the problem with housecalls.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far. I have been trying to take him for some extra long walks (past the surgery) lately, and I will take him for a long walk before his appointment, but I am a little concerned about how a big dose of excercise will mix with the sedatives.
posted by Jimbob at 10:26 AM on December 16, 2007

Oh, jumping behind what SuperSquirrel said, giving vaccination shots is super easy, though I have no idea what the legalities are. However, that reminded me, that at least in these parts, often large pet stores will host vaccination days where vaccinations are given on premises. It's much cheaper than going to a vet, and doesn't involve the full examination (so maybe he could tolerate that?). That's just one thought on the vaccinations. But it does sound like a full exam is in order for his current condition. :(

Regarding exercise/sedatives -- just do exercise first, and then sedate him. (You don't want him getting groggy far from home!)

Again, good luck!
posted by iguanapolitico at 11:26 AM on December 16, 2007

When we started taking our pooch to the vet, the focus was on making it something extraordinary for him. Our usual routine these days is sardines frozen inside a kong. They stink to high heaven and it's the only time he gets them. He's so wound up at the smelliest food in the world inside his favorite toy he has no association of what the vet is like, and this is through several surgeries and consequent recoveries. We even board him at the vet and he loves it.

I think the key is making it something overwhelmingly positive, and it will take a while.

To the other points, exercise the hell out of him before you go if you can, and do all the things the vet does to him at home. We routinely go through a full dog inspection routine weekly just to keep the monster in tune with his expected behavior when he's being handled by humans.

If he's a ball oriented and obsessed dog wait until he has an especially smelly one he's loath to give up, and sequester that ball to take to the vets office and see if he'll play for a few minutes there with the vet.
posted by iamabot at 12:29 PM on December 16, 2007

I have a question. Unless I'm missing something, if the vet made a house call, how did the dog know to get anxious? What was the indication that it was the vet coming, as opposed to someone else? I'm wondering: are you putting out some negative signal that your dog is responding to?
posted by Malad at 2:06 PM on December 16, 2007

Malad, I'm not sure because my wife organised the vet to make a house call when I was at work, so I'm going on her word. I always assumed he could smell the other animals on her, and made that association, and I believe she may not have been given enough time to "be introduced". House calls are probably worth another try in the future, if we can convince the vet to come around early and play for a while.
posted by Jimbob at 2:33 PM on December 16, 2007

You also said that he felt cornered by the mobile vet. The vet was a stranger and was poking and prodding him, so I imagine all of that, probably combined with not enough introduction time, was probably it.

Probably some massive socialization efforts are in order, though I know it's a pain! You sound like you love your dog and you're a conscientious dog keeper all around. Keep us updated!
posted by iguanapolitico at 2:55 PM on December 16, 2007

sometimes it could just be the specific environment. a relative of my dog's got really stressed and anxious when he went to the holistic vet that my dog goes to (my dog actually loves it there) so his owner now takes him to a different vet and he's completely fine going there.

i would try a different vet office before i went the medication route.
posted by violetk at 6:01 PM on December 16, 2007