SM question?? (very personal)

December 16, 2007 7:41 AM

SM question?? (very personal)

I am trying to understand something. This guy I dated was into SM, but said it "wasn't that important" to him. I expressed interest but when we first tried it I thought it was really scary. He was very forceful and teased me about ignoring my safe words. He also tried to do stuff that I had told him not to do when I was in a vulnerable position.

This episode really scared me. However, I liked the guy a lot so I told him that he needed to respect my limits and we needed to take things slow.

Ever since then things were "different" and he pulled away from me sexually. He since broke up with me and said his feelings changed around that time but didn't explain why, just that he felt more like a friend to me.

I don't know much about SM...was his behavior normal for SM? I thought safe words were "sacred," and not to be joked about. Was I wrong to feel scared and like my limits weren't respected? What do you think happened from his perspective? Why would this change his feelings towards me?

posted by anonymous to grab bag (22 comments total)

Some people believe that in S&M, the use of safewords changes the power dynamic so that the dominant person doesn't really have any power. If the sub has the option to end the activity at any moment, she or he's got the power. Makes sense to me. Keeping that in mind, teasing you about ignoring the safe word puts the power back in his hand. Which, I would think, make it more exciting for him, especially if his teasing makes you think he might be serious. Safe words are only as sacred if both parties abide by the convention.

I think you're more than justified being scared. At best, he's being immature and selfish, and not being gracious about your generosity. He might not be conscious about how vulnerable you felt in that position. However, I think that's a pretty damn generous interpretation, I'd be more apt to say that he's a jerk and shouldn't be given that type of trust.
posted by bluejayk at 7:55 AM on December 16, 2007

You're never "wrong" to feel scared about something as sexually "different" as SM. That's just silly.

Everyone has their own limits, and while it's suggested you be Good, Giving and Game, if something is pushing one of those limits to truly uncomfortable places for you, then it's better that it ended as it did.

Safe words should (perhaps) be sacred, but it's not like all SMs have a book they pledge an oath on.

You're in the right to be scared and better off finding someone who doesn't feel the need to push you past your comfort zone with SM in order to be fulfilled.
posted by disillusioned at 7:57 AM on December 16, 2007

I'd say you're better off without him. SM or not, partners need to respect each other's boundaries and he clearly not only didn't do that, but he then teased you when you tried to talk to him about it. If he's changed his feelings about you, consider yourself lucky that you're rid of him. You don't need that kind of thing. There are guys out there who will respect you.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:57 AM on December 16, 2007 [1 favorite]

Safe words are taken very seriously by anybody with experience in the BDSM world. Do not feel guilty about this. Any good dom will know to respect the limits. It sounds like this guy may be very inexperienced, or he may just be very selfish. In either case, I would stay away from him.
posted by Evangeline at 7:59 AM on December 16, 2007

1) No, you weren't wrong to feel scared.

2) From his perspective, he probably thought he was having a good time dominating you and you wimped out, thus,

3) Making him think you weren't a good partner sexually for him.

So, let's review. You met someone and were GGG enough to give S & M activities a go with him. You did your research and learned about safe words and set your boundaries beforehand. He violated your boundaries and then teased you about it. You told him later this wasn't ok, but that you were willing to have another go as long as you took it slow.

He pulled away, sulked, and then dumped you without ever addressing the issue.

He's a douchebag. Be glad you are rid of him. It sucks that fell for a douchebag who thinks his feelings and needs and more important than yours but who won't talk about those feelings and needs in any detail ...but we all have at some point. Douchebags are everywhere. It's no reflection on you.

Take care of yourself. Move on. Learn from this. You'll find someone better.
posted by minervous at 8:01 AM on December 16, 2007 [8 favorites]

no, you're not wrong. safe words ARE sacred.

his feelings changed because he didn't feel powerful or controlling enough. maybe he would have been more satisfied if you both had the same boundaries, but you didn't. there's nothing wrong with that.

the problem is that he wanted instant gratification. he wasn't interested in seeing if your boundaries might present interesting and satisfying challenges for him. he wasn't interested in seeing if your boundaries would change as you became more comfortable with him. instead, he took advantage of you in order to get what he wanted immediately. that's obnoxious, rude, and creepy as hell. a real gent would have had more patience, and when presented with your inexperience with s&m would have brightened up and said, "well, practice makes perfect!" and proceeded to show you the ropes. (pardon the pun.)

so, to review, the issue here is not s&m, it's that this guy is an asshole. you are always entitled to say no, and a partner must respect that. otherwise it's rape.
posted by thinkingwoman at 8:15 AM on December 16, 2007 [5 favorites]

He was very forceful and teased me about ignoring my safe words. He also tried to do stuff that I had told him not to do when I was in a vulnerable position.


This would scary anyone. You're normal. He's not.
posted by poppo at 8:16 AM on December 16, 2007

Relationships are based on trust. You trusted him enough to make yourself emotionally and physically position and he abused his position of power. He went too far and you're better off without him.

From his perspective, he's probably into much more extreme domination/submission fantasies than you are. He's likely looking for someone who does not mind (or, even better, enjoys) feeling degraded. You were uncomfortable being taunted; some people would find it stimulating. When he realized where your limits were in comparison to his own, he likely lost his attraction to you because he knew you would never help him live out his kinks.

You two were sexually incompatible. But more importantly, he had no right to take things that far that quickly. S&M is not something you just dive into; there should have been a lot more talking and a lot more experimentation, and even then you might never have been willing to let him realize the situations he had dreamed up.

In the end, S&M should be about the illusion of domination and control; if at any time you felt legitimately scared or powerless, then he was being a creep and you should be glad he's gone.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 8:16 AM on December 16, 2007

Ummmmm....in S&M, one of the biggest red flags is disregard of safe words.

He should be avoided at all costs.
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 8:17 AM on December 16, 2007

If someone didn't respect a safeword, I wouldn't trust him with borrowing fifty cents for the soda machine.

Honestly, experienced dominants with a first-timer will not only express and respect the importance of safewords, but check in on you repeatedly anyway to make sure you're not experiencing any "bad" pain, that you're okay with the situation and the ropes aren't digging in too deep, your knees aren't cramping up, whatever.

I'm sorry this guy was a jerk to you, and I'm glad you're rid of him. He does sound like the kind of person who will come back in a few weeks, tail between his legs, claiming that he made a mistake - and he's just going to be a jerk again if you take him back. So continue to stay clear of him.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:29 AM on December 16, 2007

i'm 100% with minervous on this. also, if he disregards your boundaries this early in the relationship, just think of how much worse things will get later.

however, by virtue of the fact that you still want to be with this asshat, i assume one of two things:

1. maybe you did like the abuse which is why you want to go back
2. maybe you're bating

i'm leaning towards #2 here, but just in case i'm wrong, what minervous said was spot on. there are plenty more asshats in the sea for you to crush hopelessly over.
posted by analogue at 8:31 AM on December 16, 2007

No, his behavior was NOT normal for BDSM practitioners. I've been involved in the community for years and no one I know would deliberately ignore safewords or limits unless that had been carefully consented to beforehand.

There are jerks in every community. His behavior isn't representative of BDSM any more than it is of blue-eyed guys or Chevy drivers or coffee drinkers.

The guy is a control freak and he pulled away from you when you showed him you weren't going to "lie down and take it." You're not a willing victim, therefore he might as well move on to someone more vulnerable. This isn't dominant behavior, it's insecure asshole behavior. If he knew you weren't really into activities x, y, and z, then he should have found a different partner, not pushed the envelope with you.

bluejayk: If the sub has the option to end the activity at any moment, she or he's got the power

If you're a literal type, then sure, this is technically true. You can't legally make someone do something against their will. However, SM is a sexual fantasy, and the fantasy for most submissives is that they give up some/all power. The fantasy for most dominants is that they have some/all the power. A safeword does not and should not interrupt this fantasy - in fact, it's a mechanism for making sure the fantasy stays intact, and doesn't drift off into harsh assault-and-battery reality.
posted by desjardins at 8:52 AM on December 16, 2007 [1 favorite]

I don't think safewords are necessarily sacred, but this is like a lot of things in a relationship: You have to be on the same page. You and this guy were not on the same page, and frankly I think you are lucky that he just pulled away instead of deciding to "make an issue" of it.

S&M, D/s, and BDSM can be scary. As you can see, a lot of people feel this territory can be traversed safely, but as in every other aspect of dating and relating: some people are just plain abusive (and you can kind of understand how they might be attracted to something that can provide cover for their abuse).

the fact that you still want to be with this asshat

What? OP wants this guy back? It sounds to me like we're just seeing an attempt to understand what happened.
posted by caitlinb at 9:32 AM on December 16, 2007

In a long term relationship, where there had been a lot of trust built up, and where the dom is very very VERY good at reading the sub, then perhaps a little edge play with safe words could be fun. But never in a new relationship, and really really never with someone who has never done S&M before. For new partners and S&M virgins, safewords ARE sacred.

When he said it 'wasn't very important' to him, he was either lying to you or deceiving himself. It is obviously important enough to him that as soon as he realized you weren't going to perform like the script in his beat off fantasies, he wasn't interested in you anymore. One can hope that he'll learn one day that real life sex =! fantasy sex, and that while real life sex introduces a lot of complications, its advantages make up for its deficiencies.
posted by happyturtle at 9:57 AM on December 16, 2007 [1 favorite]

Regardless of anyone's desires, kinks, idiosyncrasies in the bedroom, a partner should be respectful of your needs and limits. This sounds like it has less to do with SM and more to do with this guy being a jerk.
posted by sneakin at 10:18 AM on December 16, 2007

You weren't wrong at all. Like happyturtle said, fucking with safe words isn't something you do to a person the first time, or even the first dozen times. It's a trust game, and he obviously doesn't respect that or his partners. Good riddance.
posted by Roman Graves at 10:24 AM on December 16, 2007

The guy you were dating did not care about you, and he is an example of what happens when pathology meets trust. You were absolutely right to tell him to respect your safeword. The man in all likelihood wanted a doormat and baby, you ain't it.

If the guy were really interested in SM he would -want- a partner who had power to exchange, and that would have increased his interest not put it out. He's interested in something creepier and much more dangerous, and you are well rid of him.
posted by jet_silver at 11:01 AM on December 16, 2007

This guy I dated was into SM, but said it "wasn't that important" to him.

He was lying and is not to be trusted. That he would tease you about ignoring safewords during your first experience is also not good evidence of trust.
posted by rhizome at 11:11 AM on December 16, 2007

I'd suggest you read The Loving Dominant by John Warren, which talks about the dynamics of dominant/submissive relationships. As others have said, this guy cannot be trusted if he will not respect the safe word.
posted by essexjan at 1:09 PM on December 16, 2007

He's a dick, period. It really has little to do with his interest in SM.
posted by desuetude at 2:58 PM on December 16, 2007

What desuetude said. Guy's an ass, you dodged a bullet, find a nice one.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:07 PM on December 16, 2007

What a terrible introduction to S&M. Safewords are -essential- when you're just starting out, but they're not supposed to be part of the play itself. >_>
posted by Phalene at 6:44 PM on December 16, 2007