Comments on: Mugging...not a police matter?

Question: Mugging...not a police matter?

LittleMissCranky — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:05:47 -0800

A friend was robbed outside her home. The recording at the police department says that they won't come out for offenses involving less than $5000. This can't possibly be right, can it? This evening, my friend was confronted by a man who got out of a car, said he had a gun and took her stuff. She has now seen the same car drive by her house twice since then. Her husband says that he just has to file a report on the police website. This seems totally ridiculous to me...is this right, or is there some misunderstanding? What should be done?

By: LittleMissCranky

LittleMissCranky — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:08:17 -0800

This is in Houston, if it makes a difference.

By: nimsey lou

nimsey lou — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:10:17 -0800

I am in Houston as well. My truck was broken into in September and they wouldn't come out. I had to file a report online. I never heard any thing from anyone. Good luck.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:11:58 -0800

Did she listen to the whole recording, and then push whatever button will get her through to a real person, and then ask them your question?

By: 45moore45

45moore45 — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:14:38 -0800

What? She needs to call the cops right now and get an officer out and give a description of the man who confronted her and the car. Try and get some digital photos of the car and the plates. She also needs to be prepared for some aftershocks emotionally and fleeting feelings of safety. Robbery isn't just your stuff, it's your piece of mind, too. I think something must have been misunderstood on the recording because advertising a dollar worth like that seems like an open invitation for anarchy, you know?

By: LittleMissCranky

LittleMissCranky — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:15:38 -0800

I could understand if it were a property-only crime, nimsey...but this was threatening someone with a weapon, and the person is apparently still around.

TWF, there apparently was no button-pushing option.

By: IvyMike

IvyMike — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:16:51 -0800

This wasn't just a property crime (like a truck being broken into) this was the threat of assault with a deadly weapon. And if the car is still in the area, perhaps the crime is not over. I'd call 911. What's the downside of calling vs. the potential downside of not calling?

By: idiotfactory

idiotfactory — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:16:58 -0800

Believe it or not, the police don't have to protect you. You will need to protect yourself and your home. Also, document everything you can, maybe the police will feel like helping out if something happens.

Here is a handy blog set up by a security company that gives a lot of tips.

Good luck, hope everything goes well.

By: ooklala

ooklala — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:18:13 -0800

Are you serious?
I am not sure how to escalate this but you ought to bring it to the next level. State Police perhaps? I doubt that an online police report will get very far. I would also perhaps look into some sort of alarm system (maybe to be extreme get one of those pennant things?)

By: cocoagirl

cocoagirl — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:19:27 -0800

Um, isn't it a bigger problem that he threatened her with a gun? Can she call and say "There is a man who says he has a gun threatening me and driving back and forth in front of my house."

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:19:33 -0800

I would definitely take pictures of the guy and his car and plates. And fill out whatever reports the police want you to fill out.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:20:57 -0800

She also might want to find out if the police differentiate a purely property-related theft to a mugging that may be an assault.

By: thehmsbeagle

thehmsbeagle — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:21:55 -0800

I'm sorry that happened to your friend!

If they really can't get a cop to come out, this kind of thing is the bread and butter of crappy local news guys: "A woman alone, the victim of a violent crime, and local PD won't even pick up the phone. What that means for your weekend, at 11."

By: Zephyrial

Zephyrial — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:23:47 -0800

I'm pretty sure armed robbery is different than they-broke-in-while-I-was-out robbery.

By: Pants!

Pants! — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:27:34 -0800

Call your city-council person. They want to help. Melissa Noriega was just elected to an at-large position.

By: otolith

otolith — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:34:00 -0800

Yeah, this is a 911 call situation. My girlfriend and I were robbed just outside out apartment at 3 in the morning a few months ago. When we were inside and safe I went straight to the phone to call 911 and my girlfriend basically said, "Why? They can't possibly catch the guys now?" But I over-ruled the objection and called. They sent out officers and detectives immediately, took our statements and descriptions and followed up with us for weeks when they arrested suspects on similar crimes who they thought might be the same guys. This is in New York, but, Jesus, they have to do something when you call 911, no matter what state you're in.

By: zsazsa

zsazsa — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:35:04 -0800

Zephyrial: they-broke-in-while-I-was-out is burglary, not robbery.

By: otolith

otolith — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:45:35 -0800

Or, if you take a literal reading of idiotfactory's links, they don't have to do something when you call 911, but I'm thinking most of the time they will. Even though the police might not have caught the guys who mugged us, it absolutely helped my mental state to do something about the situation and talk to people who might be able to help. I think it's good to have these things on record, just in case something else dicey happens or you're still feeling threatened.

By: winston

winston — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:46:17 -0800

I'm sure the under-$5000 rule only applies when the only issue is property loss. The police will come out if someone threatened you with a gun even if you had no property loss.

By: craichead

craichead — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:49:32 -0800

Good lord. Call the cops. If he'd beaten her up, would she still not call the police unless he'd taken $5000 or more from her? Armed robbery is generally defined as a violent crime, not a property crime, and the cops should be willing to come out. At any rate, you shouldn't assume that they won't until you've actually talked to a dispatcher.

By: Robert Angelo

Robert Angelo — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:50:38 -0800

She should have called 911 as soon as possible. Since some time has gone by, call the police non-emergency number at 713.884.3131 -- unless she still feels in danger, that is. If she feels in danger, then no question, call 911. Considering that the car has driven by twice, it sounds reasonable that HPD would send officers out to investigate. FWIW, I had to make a few local police when I lived in Galveston; they came out for drunks sleeping in the apartment parking lot next door to my old house, they even came out when someone dug up and stole one of my trees, and yes, they came out when we called 911 because one of the apartment residents threatened his wife with a butcher knife.

When I lived in DC years ago I had the thing about filling out a form instead of making an report to an officer for a property crime (car vandalism). This isn't a property crime, it's an assault. She needs to make the call.

For web links, the best reference for you locally is HPD's own web site.

By: Robert Angelo

Robert Angelo — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:53:18 -0800

Also, here's that online form mentioned by the OP. It says, among other things:

This form CANNOT be used if:

* The Crime / Loss / Incident occurred outside the city limits of Houston, Texas.
* Any evidence exists (such as fingerprints, burglary tools left at the scene, any type of evidence, or anything that must be collected or processed by the police.)
* Suspect information exists (such as a license plate number, surveillance photos, or a physical description of the suspect.)
* An emergency exists. (In an emergency, dial 9-1-1.)
* If any type of force or break-in occurred.
* If any injuries occurred.
* This form cannot be used to report a stolen vehicle.

Seems like she may have evidence, suspect information, and of course force was used. Make the call. Don't use the form.

By: jayder

jayder — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:53:34 -0800

I think Winston is probably right. An armed robbery is something the police are sure to respond to.

Anyway, with this guy driving around outside, why are you writing a question on Metafilter? Why have you not called 911 already?

By: kimdog

kimdog — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:54:22 -0800

Nthing call 911

By: Pastabagel

Pastabagel — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:55:41 -0800

"Hello, 911? Yes, this is an emergency. I was threatened with a weapon and robbed a couple of hours ago on the corner of X and Y. The assailants fled the scene in a car but that car has now returned to my block. My attackers are in the car, and I'm worried that they have come back to break into my house and possibly rape me. I'm a woman all alone here, but I have a gun. I'm so scared right now. They are sitting out there in the car. If you don't get here soon, I'm going to go outside right now while they are all sitting in there, and I'm going to shoot them before they come for me. They just turned off the car. Here I go. Please hurry."

*click*

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:10:50 -0800

But don't say that crap about having a gun and planning to shoot people.

By: Dasein

Dasein — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:33:28 -0800

Yeah, your friend's problem was calling a non-emergency number in an emergency. Being robbed, and seeing the robbers continue to scope the neighbourhood, is an emergency. 911 should have been her immediate response.

By: grouse

grouse — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:45:33 -0800

Making a false report to law enforcement is also a crime in Texas. So don't do that.

By: mochapickle

mochapickle — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:18:35 -0800

The husband is totally wrong here. Years ago right after moving to NYC, I got held up a block from my apartment. Like your friend, I opted to call the precinct. So I spent five minutes sobbing hysterically flipping through the phone book looking for the office number, got the message recording, tried to pound through, called again, and eventually someone at the precinct picked up. I told her my story and she asked me why I didn't call 911. When I told her that I thought 911 was for fires and heart attacks, she said, "Oh, honey, what you just went through is exactly what 911 is for." So I called 911 and the police came. They were very polite and professional, took a full report, and even drove me through the neighborhood to try to find the guy. Afterwards, they used my case as supporting information for a conviction. 911 is a good thing.

I'm sure she already followed your advice and called 911 hours ago -- just wanted to support the smackdown on the husband when they read this later.

By: unknowncommand

unknowncommand — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:23:50 -0800

Datapoint(s): My friends have been mugged in Houston. Called 911. Police came out and took statements.

By: Quarter Pincher

Quarter Pincher — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:37:02 -0800

Is there some bizarre limitation from going up there yourself? You apparently had enough time to listen to a recording, just go the frack up there yourself. I'm in Texas and there's a police shortage in my city, so they won't come out for certain things, but you are beyond welcome to come up yourself and file everything and two chickens if you want.

By: Quarter Pincher

Quarter Pincher — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:41:47 -0800

I am also a former security dispatcher. You might better be advised to say, "I need to report an armed robbery in progress, my address is 123 Four Street." followed by details. Do not hang up unless they tell you to. Even the background noise could be beyond helpful. And don't assume they can get your address just because you called, not every dispatch station has that ability, that's a TV-land assumption.

By: a robot made out of meat

a robot made out of meat — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:28:53 -0800

So, in Houston as long as you make sure that people are gone, you can just break in to many places, and steal $4000 worth of stuff from each house, and the police won't even bother investigating?

By: gauchodaspampas

gauchodaspampas — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:48:57 -0800

If possible, when you call the police, make it sound like there's public or city property in danger. I frequent a coffee shop in a somewhat shady neighborhood, that happens to be on the same corner as a bus stop. If a drunk really gives them trouble, and they want it taken care of sooner, rather than later, when they call the police, they always say the drunk is at the bus stop, not in their shop, or just at the corner. So is there any important city property nearby? You could say you've seen the person hanging around that property. Also, make sure and mention that he was armed when you encountered him up close.

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:50:15 -0800

Call your councilman.

By: Pressed Rat

Pressed Rat — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:29:21 -0800

OK - Houston Police anecdote time, circa 1977. I was temporarily staying at my brother's in an upper middle class neighborhood off of 1960, North of town near Interstate 45. One Sunday morning around 7 am the dog (doberman) started barking like crazy, we went to the front door and saw a burglar hotfooting it across the yard carrying stuff from the house next door. My sister-in-law let the dog out to run after him, and he dropped a VCR in his haste to get away (the dog, a family wuss, petered out after two yards worth of chase).

Afyter checking next door to confirm the break-in, we called 911, and were told a patrol car would come out as soon as possible. After waiting over 45 minutes, my brother and I drove up to the nearly Denny's restaurant on 1960, walked in and there were three sheriff's deputies sitting there drinking coffee. When we went up to talk to them they asked if we were the folks who made the call, then proceeded to tell us that the neighborhood had been hit several times by that guy and they were "trying to find him." Right.....

By: craven_morhead

craven_morhead — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:35:04 -0800

Yes, absolutely call 911, as said above.

As a sidenote, if it's just a property crime under $5k, the police have no legal duty to come and investigate. Law enforcement personnel (cops, prosecutors, etc.) have broad discretion in the discharge of their duties. For example, it wouldn't be practical for cops to rush around, enforcing the speed limit on everyone who speeds. They wouldn't have time to do anything else. So we give them discretion as to who to pull over. Same thing goes for property crimes; this department has apparantly decided that they don't have the time/inclination/manpower/whatever to check out property crimes under $5k.

That said, the threat of violence here makes it a completely different deal. Even if the guy stole $5, they'll still respond to a 911 call. That's what it's there for.

By: Unicorn on the cob

Unicorn on the cob — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:51:18 -0800

Uh, let me just tell you... my house was robbed at Christmas. They tore the burglar bars off the back of my house with a crowbar and left a 12 by 12 (foot) hole in my house. They stole quite a bit of stuff, including my identity, and after maybe 10 different phone calls, the police would only take my word for it over the phone that I'd been robbed. They didn't fingerprint, take pictures or anything.

My neighborhood was behind a large bar district in Dallas, and we had crackheads all over the place, driving up and down on Friday nights, smashing car windows and stealing things all the way down the street. I'd routinely wake up to broken glass up one side and down the other, and in my yard. Bastards broke into my car in my driveway, too. They'd just wait until I was in the shower to do it.

If your friend is in a high-crime neighborhood, the police won't bother unless you have been physically hurt or someone is dead. This is when you do things like post videos on Youtube, write letters to your congressman, and contact the local media.

Yes, it was a violent crime. But drawing attention to the matter via other means might get your friend the help she needs.

Seven years later, I still can't write a check anywhere in Texas. My sympathies are with your friend.