Comments on: If I were recently laid off, I would have a lot of time on my hands.

Question: If I were recently laid off, I would have a lot of time on my hands.

jason's_planet — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:10:05 -0800

GrammarFilter: Is the sentence “If I were ______, I would have done _____” grammatically incorrect? If so, why?

This is a grammar question.

Is a sentence that begins with “If I/you/she were” and ends with “I would have done __________” grammatically incorrect? I’ve assumed that a sentence that begins with the (subjunctive?) “If I were” has to be paired with a (conditional?) phrase such as “this would happen” and that a sentence which ends with a phrase like “would have” has to be paired with a phrase like “If I had been.” Under that scheme, these sentences should read like this:

"If I were ______, I would do (this, that and the other thing)."

"If I had been ______, I would have done (this, that and the other thing)."

Is this assumption correct? While I’m on the topic, what verb tenses am I using in the latter example (“would have” and “If I had been”) and how can I explain this rule to people who are not grammar geeks?

Many thanks in advance. Happy Holidays!

By: cmiller

cmiller — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:15:05 -0800

"Subjunctive" is the verb tense.

By: ludwig_van

ludwig_van — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:19:45 -0800

The subjunctive is a mood, not a tense.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:40:10 -0800

Yes, that's grammatically correct.

And while we're on the subject, what's the verdict on sentences like "If I would have done X, then I would have done Y"? That construction really only needs "would have" on the second half of the sentence, right?

By: Rhaomi

Rhaomi — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:44:59 -0800

That reminds me of the phrase "would have". I know it's acceptable to say stuff like "I would have had to have had surgery." But how many of these can you string together?

"I would have had to have had to have had to have had..."

Kinda like "I know", in a way. "I know that you know that he knew that she knew that you knew... etc."

/tangent

By: junkbox

junkbox — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:45:56 -0800

It is grammatically incorrect to include "would" in the same clause as "if." So emelenjr's example ought to read, "If I were to have done X, then I would have done Y."

By: wryly

wryly — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:48:34 -0800

In English grammar, the "would have" is called a conditional verb form. Check out this page if you want to be enlightened or confused by the array of "if" sentences.

Tense in grammar refers to time... we have past, present, and future tenses. The subjunctive, as ludwig_van pointed out, is a mood. Take a look here for examples of the various moods and tenses.

By: lullabyofbirdland

lullabyofbirdland — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:51:40 -0800

And while we're on the subject, what's the verdict on sentences like "If I would have done X, then I would have done Y"?

If I had done X, I would have done Y.

By: zadermatermorts

zadermatermorts — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:14:17 -0800

The correctness of "were...would have" vs. "had been...would have" depends on the content of the statement in question. "Were" is the present subjunctive, so you would use it to describe a possibility that applies to the present. "Had been" is the past, or pluperfect, subjunctive, so you would use it to describe a possibility that applies to the past.

Examples of correct ways in which you might use these both:

"If I were rich, I would have bought a mansion instead of this little house." ("were" because you are describing a condition that presumably still applies)

"If I had been aware of his other two girlfriends, I never would have accepted that third date." ("had been" because the condition has changed and does not apply to the present)

By: zadermatermorts

zadermatermorts — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:23:35 -0800

Hmm, re the above, I seem to have gotten the nomenclature wrong ("past"/"present" subjunctive; grammarians are weird), but the idea is the same. See wiki for more detail.

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:27:44 -0800

It is grammatically incorrect to include "would" in the same clause as "if." So emelenjr's example ought to read, "If I were to have done X, then I would have done Y."
posted by junkbox at 10:45 AM on December 5

Except when you are making a request..."If you wouldn't mind..."

Or when speaking about the past, where you contradict what actually happened..."If I wouldn't have gone, I ..." ("If I were not to have gone..." is a bit clunky and doesn't seem to be used in everyday speech).

Syntactic constructions can get very complicated to pick apart really friggin' fast. We've got lots of cans open already. Jason, you're on the right track, and wryly and zadermatermorts has got it.

By: weapons-grade pandemonium

weapons-grade pandemonium — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:02:03 -0800

It's grammatically and logically correct. The subjunctive puts you in their shoes, so the subsequent conditional form is not inconsistent. Now if you would please turn off that music, I'll get on with my work.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:07:25 -0800

I had a hunch I was correct about that. Hearing people use that construction always grates on me. "If only he would have slowed down, he would have avoided that crash."

By: IndigoJones

IndigoJones — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:35:23 -0800

"If I were rich, I would have bought a mansion instead of this little house." ("were" because you are describing a condition that presumably still applies)

Or rather a condition that does not and did not apply. That is to say, "Were" because you are describing a contrary to fact condition. Least ways, that's what I was taught.

The "If I would have" or "I wish I would have" instead of "If I had" or "I wish I had" always drives me up the wall, which no doubt makes me a stinky prescriptivist. I expect that fight was lost years ago.