Lonely Maytag repair newbie seeks NSA troubleshooting.
December 2, 2007 4:02 PM
My electric Maytag clothes dryer cannot rid itself of moisture since the weather turned cooler. Part of the issue, I understand, is my exhaust method. That will be corrected very soon.
Are there any parts (switches, thermostats, fuses) I should suspect, as well?
Online research and an AskMe search into the matter convinced me that my venting system of flex pipe into what is probably a non-insulated vent in the attic causes moisture to accumulate in the exhaust. I've contacted my apartment's maintenance department to find out whether or not the pipe in the attic is jacketed and have yet to hear back from them.
My apartment complex is over forty years old and the utility alcove is too small for both the washer and dryer. I moved the fridge from it's niche and put the dryer there, just outside the alcove. The (non-plastic) flexible tubing runs up the back of the dryer, curves over the dryer and turns to the exhaust connector at the back of the closet. Water collects in the tubing and sometimes leaks beneath the dryer. Hot air from the dryer + cold air outside + too many elbows/bad angling = condensation. This setup worked great for the past eight-months-or-so.
The dryer tumbles and heats; however, it takes an eternity to dry a load of clothes. Of course, I'm concerned about safety issues, as well. Lint is not blocking any of the flow and hot air does travel through the venting.
While I'm very handy with tools and love troubleshooting, I will most likely summon a repair person if I believe parts are malfunctioning.
Online research and an AskMe search into the matter convinced me that my venting system of flex pipe into what is probably a non-insulated vent in the attic causes moisture to accumulate in the exhaust. I've contacted my apartment's maintenance department to find out whether or not the pipe in the attic is jacketed and have yet to hear back from them.
My apartment complex is over forty years old and the utility alcove is too small for both the washer and dryer. I moved the fridge from it's niche and put the dryer there, just outside the alcove. The (non-plastic) flexible tubing runs up the back of the dryer, curves over the dryer and turns to the exhaust connector at the back of the closet. Water collects in the tubing and sometimes leaks beneath the dryer. Hot air from the dryer + cold air outside + too many elbows/bad angling = condensation. This setup worked great for the past eight-months-or-so.
The dryer tumbles and heats; however, it takes an eternity to dry a load of clothes. Of course, I'm concerned about safety issues, as well. Lint is not blocking any of the flow and hot air does travel through the venting.
While I'm very handy with tools and love troubleshooting, I will most likely summon a repair person if I believe parts are malfunctioning.
It's a pretty simple machine. If it's tumbling and clothes aren't getting dry, it's either lack of heat or it's not properly vented. The vent is probably plugged with lint somewhere. I'd consider the moisture a symptom rather than the root problem.
posted by winston at 4:19 PM on December 2, 2007
posted by winston at 4:19 PM on December 2, 2007
Your problems are:
1. There has to be a blockage in the exhaust somewhere, probably beyond the tubing inside your place. Get the super to check that attic piping.
2. That flexible tubing (metallic material) is much less efficient in moving the air out than metal sleeve tubing (similar to stovepipe). I replaced a 12-foot length of flexible tubing with stovepipe-type tubing in my house, and it cut the drying time down by 30% or so.
posted by beagle at 4:41 PM on December 2, 2007
1. There has to be a blockage in the exhaust somewhere, probably beyond the tubing inside your place. Get the super to check that attic piping.
2. That flexible tubing (metallic material) is much less efficient in moving the air out than metal sleeve tubing (similar to stovepipe). I replaced a 12-foot length of flexible tubing with stovepipe-type tubing in my house, and it cut the drying time down by 30% or so.
posted by beagle at 4:41 PM on December 2, 2007
Yup, the interior flexible duct and the dryer are free of clogs and a normal amount of hot air flows from the dryer. I recognize that the Habitrail-like run and rise is part (if not all) of the problem, at this point. I'm just curious if there are any other potential issues I should look for once I switch to a rigid system (with a possible fan in the works) in the next week.
Can a backflow of moisture cause damage to dryer parts (either by contact or by confusing sensors) aside from the obvious risks related to electricity? The electrical outlet, by the way, is about six inches from the floor and the cord is angled so as to not run water to it under any freakish circumstances.
The air has to travel from the base of the dryer to the back of the alcove approximately nine feet (with two turns) to where it connects to the exhaust pipe base that is about five feet from the floor. The exhaust runs through the attic in what may-or-may-not be an insulated metal pipe and vents through the roof. I have an eight-foot ceiling and would guess there is at least five more feet to go before the air exits the building. There are no blowers in this system. So far, the outside temperatures have gone only as low as the lower 30s F.
posted by bonobo at 4:44 PM on December 2, 2007
Can a backflow of moisture cause damage to dryer parts (either by contact or by confusing sensors) aside from the obvious risks related to electricity? The electrical outlet, by the way, is about six inches from the floor and the cord is angled so as to not run water to it under any freakish circumstances.
The air has to travel from the base of the dryer to the back of the alcove approximately nine feet (with two turns) to where it connects to the exhaust pipe base that is about five feet from the floor. The exhaust runs through the attic in what may-or-may-not be an insulated metal pipe and vents through the roof. I have an eight-foot ceiling and would guess there is at least five more feet to go before the air exits the building. There are no blowers in this system. So far, the outside temperatures have gone only as low as the lower 30s F.
posted by bonobo at 4:44 PM on December 2, 2007
You know, beagle--It didn't occur to me that the attic portion of the pipe could be blocked somehow. I have put in a work order for the maintenance folks to check out their end of the system. I was mostly concerned about insulation, though. I haven't a clue as to how the attic run is configured. Maybe some curious animals have had a go at HVAC or part of that system is no longer intact.
posted by bonobo at 4:50 PM on December 2, 2007
posted by bonobo at 4:50 PM on December 2, 2007
It sounds like you washer/dryer alcove is made for a typical stacked washer/dryer combo. A vent that high off the floor, plus an additional 5 foot vertical rise to get into the crawl space leaves, according to your estimates, about 10 feet of vertical column height, plus a couple of 90 degree bends, and a long horizontal run to an eventual outside vent. That's a pretty stiff load for a normal dryer blower to overcome, in addition to moving air through the machine for drying airflow. The problem with that is that the vent temperature may be going very high because of restricted air flow, kicking in temperature overlimit safety sensors, which cut the dryer's heat elements. In those circumstances, it takes a very long time to dry a load, and it puts a lot of additional wear and tear on the drum belt and other mechanical parts. But mainly, it's a fire hazard.
A stacked washer/dryer combo would only be fighting a 5 foot vertical stack rise (and wouldn't have your interior run and bends), which is far from ideal, but much better than the situation you've got.
GE makes a stacking rack for use with their front loading dryers, in combination with their top or front loading washers. If you got something like this, and could stack your units, putting the dryer on top, you'd get better airflow. But if your machine is a full sized dryer with the normal floor level vent exit, it will still be doing a foot to 18 inches of vertical lift a combo washer/dryer wouldn't, because the combo units have their vent exits higher than the elevation that simply stacking floor units can produce.
As for water running down the exhaust and into your dryer, there probably isn't an immediate danger to the longevity of your dryer in terms of shorting out controls (or causing other immediate electrical damage), but liquid water forming in a dryer vent from condensation is a fairly unusual circumstance. So much so, that if that is actually what is happening, you definitely have major venting problems. There is a risk of fire inherent in the use of dryers, that is exacerbated by venting problems, simply because trapped lint ignites very, very easily.
You shouldn't operate the dryer until you have the venting problems sorted out.
posted by paulsc at 5:43 PM on December 2, 2007
A stacked washer/dryer combo would only be fighting a 5 foot vertical stack rise (and wouldn't have your interior run and bends), which is far from ideal, but much better than the situation you've got.
GE makes a stacking rack for use with their front loading dryers, in combination with their top or front loading washers. If you got something like this, and could stack your units, putting the dryer on top, you'd get better airflow. But if your machine is a full sized dryer with the normal floor level vent exit, it will still be doing a foot to 18 inches of vertical lift a combo washer/dryer wouldn't, because the combo units have their vent exits higher than the elevation that simply stacking floor units can produce.
As for water running down the exhaust and into your dryer, there probably isn't an immediate danger to the longevity of your dryer in terms of shorting out controls (or causing other immediate electrical damage), but liquid water forming in a dryer vent from condensation is a fairly unusual circumstance. So much so, that if that is actually what is happening, you definitely have major venting problems. There is a risk of fire inherent in the use of dryers, that is exacerbated by venting problems, simply because trapped lint ignites very, very easily.
You shouldn't operate the dryer until you have the venting problems sorted out.
posted by paulsc at 5:43 PM on December 2, 2007
i had a home inspector point out to me once, in regard to venting from a hot water heater and gas forced air furnace that venting should, at most, have one 90ยบ angle/bend in it. sounds impractical in your situation, though, but eliminating as many of the bends might help.
posted by kuppajava at 8:41 PM on December 2, 2007
posted by kuppajava at 8:41 PM on December 2, 2007
I really appreciate the input, folks. Thank you.
paulsc: These apartments were retrofitted for washers and dryers just two years ago. A stacked unit would be ideal; however, the wooden shelves in the utility alcove would have to be ripped out because they cover the wall that the unit would occupy from about five feet off the floor to the ceiling. The metal duct that the dryer's hose fits was dropped through those shelves. This alcove also contains a water heater.
When I moved here and learned that the laundry room was to be closed, I looked into selling my washer and dryer (Spoils of Divorce) and getting a small stacked combo. It's just not in the budget right now. Up to that point, I used my washer and the communal dryers or clothes lines and left my dryer in storage. In the long run, I'd rather have the set I have now--I'm hoping to move after about six months from now.
A vent that high off the floor, plus an additional 5 foot vertical rise to get into the crawl space leaves, according to your estimates, about 10 feet of vertical column height, plus a couple of 90 degree bends, and a long horizontal run to an eventual outside vent.
I don't believe there is a long (if any) horizontal run after my apartment. Ye gads, I hope it's not venting into the attic instead of through the roof. Still, I have two bends in the line I'm using now. When I get the metal pipe and foil-faced tape, I'll see what I can do to fix the air flow. From what I've read recently, a vent fan/booster isn't feasible in this scenario. Since I haven't any sheet metal tools or HVAC pals, I may hire someone.
posted by bonobo at 1:34 AM on December 3, 2007
paulsc: These apartments were retrofitted for washers and dryers just two years ago. A stacked unit would be ideal; however, the wooden shelves in the utility alcove would have to be ripped out because they cover the wall that the unit would occupy from about five feet off the floor to the ceiling. The metal duct that the dryer's hose fits was dropped through those shelves. This alcove also contains a water heater.
When I moved here and learned that the laundry room was to be closed, I looked into selling my washer and dryer (Spoils of Divorce) and getting a small stacked combo. It's just not in the budget right now. Up to that point, I used my washer and the communal dryers or clothes lines and left my dryer in storage. In the long run, I'd rather have the set I have now--I'm hoping to move after about six months from now.
A vent that high off the floor, plus an additional 5 foot vertical rise to get into the crawl space leaves, according to your estimates, about 10 feet of vertical column height, plus a couple of 90 degree bends, and a long horizontal run to an eventual outside vent.
I don't believe there is a long (if any) horizontal run after my apartment. Ye gads, I hope it's not venting into the attic instead of through the roof. Still, I have two bends in the line I'm using now. When I get the metal pipe and foil-faced tape, I'll see what I can do to fix the air flow. From what I've read recently, a vent fan/booster isn't feasible in this scenario. Since I haven't any sheet metal tools or HVAC pals, I may hire someone.
posted by bonobo at 1:34 AM on December 3, 2007
I finally had a look-see in the attic yesterday. I haven't a ladder and needed a boost from my gentleman friend to get up there. The vent from the ceiling to the roof is the same material I've used inside: 4" flexible aluminum hose. The hose in the attic sags, too.
So--I went to the local big box home improvement store and ended up purchasing a vent kit for indoors to test if the dryer was working properly. Clothes dried normally with the new kit, which, unfortunately, gets my small apartment very hot and very humid. Still, it has narrowed down the cause of the trouble: either a clog or lousy run from my ceiling through the attic combined with condensation. Now that classes are over, I should have time to have maintenance check it out.
Thank you all for your input!
posted by bonobo at 2:41 PM on December 9, 2007
So--I went to the local big box home improvement store and ended up purchasing a vent kit for indoors to test if the dryer was working properly. Clothes dried normally with the new kit, which, unfortunately, gets my small apartment very hot and very humid. Still, it has narrowed down the cause of the trouble: either a clog or lousy run from my ceiling through the attic combined with condensation. Now that classes are over, I should have time to have maintenance check it out.
Thank you all for your input!
posted by bonobo at 2:41 PM on December 9, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by caddis at 4:12 PM on December 2, 2007