My cat bites too hard and has a stinky butt.

December 1, 2007 4:09 PM

Our (formerly feral) cat bites all the time- sometimes gently and affectionately, and other times hard enough to draw blood through thick jeans. Also, he poops every time I take a shower. I'm puzzled.

We adopted a feral cat two months ago, who is one of the coolest cats ever. Seriously. He's an enormous Maine Coon, who is still gaining weight at ~20lbs (and needs the weight, the vet says). He doesn't act like a cat at all, leading my girlfriend to posit that he's actually *not* a cat, but rather a transmogrified human (or dragon, when she's nursing seeping wounds delivered by said cat).

We think he might not have grown up with a moma cat- he does the kneading/making biscuits thing that some people online think means that he wasn't properly weaned. We wonder if that's why he bits so much.

Sometimes the biting is incredibly gentle- he places his teeth around hands, legs, fingers, and just sits there. He's often purring as he does this. Other times, like when we try to trim his nails, he bits incredibly aggressively. His teeth alone have drawn blood through my jeans repeatedly.

He goes through periods mid-afternoon of preferring his own company (which we give him) and being in a very bitey mood, chasing things around the house. When he's in one of these moods, or if we stir him up too much with his toys, he will aggressively attack us- not just respond to incursions, but chase us around the house, leaping at us like a cougar and burying his teeth in our knees/thighs or whatever else he can reach. Sometimes its a little scary when he does this.

We have tried to be firm with him about the hard biting- as suggested by the vet and online, we smacked the ground beside him loudly, called or shouted "NO!" and scruffed him. This just made him more aggressive- when he is scruffed he begins acting like a demon, hissing and making really scary Exorcist-type sounds. When we continue holding him down (again, as per the vet's suggestions) he just escalates, going absolutely insane. Both of us grew up with large, aggressive animals and she showed/bred animals in 4H, and we cannot control him when he's like this.

We've resorted to giving him shoves when he is biting or chasing us- being shoved 4 feet away seems to give him something else to focus on, and he rarely comes back and attacks again, until he remembers we are there several minutes later. My girlfriend really doesn't like doing that- instead, she scruffs him very firmly and says "NO!" very firmly, then releases him, which I don't feel has an effect on him except making him pout (he goes into a corner and sits there looking moody) for an hour or two. He certainly isn't averse to coming back and biting us again later, given the opportunity.

All that said, he is an absolutely wonderful cat, and for the most part, we just ignore the biting for all of his great personality quirks. We're just not sure a) why he bites so much (it seems to be part of his personality- the biting to show affection and biting to express anger) and b) how we should lovingly stop him. Sometimes the bites are really bad and hurt for a while.

And if this post wasn't long enough, there is one more behavior that puzzles us. His cat litter box is in our bathroom, and whenever we take a shower, no matter what time of day it is, the cat comes in and poops in his litter box. Today, I showered at 4 p.m. Last night, I showered at 11 p.m. He pooped both times.

Any ideas?

posted by stewiethegreat to pets & animals (24 comments total)

He might be using the litter box because he knows he won't be interrupted.
posted by effugas at 4:13 PM on December 1, 2007

Except. . .wouldn't that be the one time that he thinks he might be interrupted, as his human is in the same room as him?
posted by arnicae at 4:17 PM on December 1, 2007

One tip for bitey cats (which may not help in this case): When playing with a cat, if he bites any more than gently, yelp, draw the wounded limb away, and stop playing with him. This is good practice to do with kittens; this way they learn 'Oh, that's too hard, I shouldn't do that again.' (People who don't do this with their kittens end up with adult cats that bite too hard when playing.)

If scruffing doesn't work, tell your girlfriend to stop doing it. Maybe you should shake a can of pennies at him when he starts biting during one of his little episodes.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:31 PM on December 1, 2007

Biting isn't that unusual for cats... Our cat (which we got from the animal welfare at 6 weeks, which I understand is a bit young), bites me all the time, especially in the morning when she wants me to wake up and feed her.. She never bites as hard as you are describing though, just a nip that is akin to "hey bud, pay attention to me!"...

BTW, whats the "making biscuits behaviour"? ... Our cat also kneeds, but no idea what making biscuits is!
posted by ranglin at 4:37 PM on December 1, 2007

Yeah for the most part there, it sounds like you're describing a cat.

One thing with the biting affectionately vs. aggressively, is you should not encourage either behavior. Biting is not appropriate in any instance, that is the message you need to get across to him. An effective way of getting a cat to do what you want is to end any positive interaction when something negative happens. My cat used to do the gentle biting thing and I thought it was sooo cute!! But then it got to be not so gentle, and so now whenever she attempts it, I shoo her away, even if I was in the middle of getting some good kitty cuddlin'.

Pushing your cat away while it's fighting with you (maybe he thinks he's playing) just encourages him to fight back. Physical discipline really isn't a thing for cats. If he gets so wound up that he's being aggressive and actually attacking you unprovoked, well, that's not a good thing. I think maybe it would be best in this instance to throw a towel/blanket over him and move him to a quiet room so he can chill out (and know that this behavior is not going to be rewarded with being allowed in your presence).

I'm not sure about the pooping thing. I know my cat doesn't like it very much when I go into the bathroom alone (for the love of God, I might just escape through the drain!!!) and generally demands to be in there with me. Maybe your cat just feels the need to physically be in the bathroom with you and "Hey, neat, litterbox, let's take a poo."

BTW, I don't think his kneading is a sign that he was weaned too early. It's just a self-comforting activity pretty much every cat I've met does. My cat will do it to certain fabrics almost all the time. Purring is a similar self-comforting behavior.
posted by eldiem at 4:42 PM on December 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

Some folks believe that housecats hang on to their kittenish behaviors, never maturing into the solitary hunter-killers that feral cats become in the wild, because they never outgrow being dependent on their owners for food. If your cat was feral for any length of time it may have gained real world experience in biting and killing things, which for a cat is an instinct and part of its normal life. Trying to train an adult cat not to do what comes instinctively is going to be a tall order.

I do agree that your cat needs to learn that biting is not OK; I don't think it's fair to make a cat learn that some kinds of bites are different from others. One way to do this is when he's doing the gentle biting behavior put some Tabasco or cayenne on your finger. He'll quickly learn not to do this behavior and there will be no lasting harm to him.

Cats are weird, which is a good thing to keep in mind when dealing with them. Your cat may enjoy the humid atmosphere, or he may just want you to be around when he's pooping for various reasons (maybe he figures that if you're around when he's pooping and you don't protest, it must be OK to poop there?) I've noticed that cats tend to like to hang out near where their people are, in general.
posted by ikkyu2 at 4:50 PM on December 1, 2007

We keep the litter box in our bathroom, and our cat is weird when we're bathing too. For months-long stretches, she'll come stand right outside the shower door, staring and meowing -- then abruptly stop. Or she'll choose human shower time to also come in and have some grooming activity. We think she's just got a shower fixation, which I hear is not unusual.

For your cat, though, since (it sounds like?) he was just recently litter-trained, maybe he was simultaneously becoming accustomed to the noise and atmosphere of the shower while learning the location of his box, ergo he's now conditioned -- the shower comes on, he hears the water, "Oh, right, that's in that room where I go have a poo. Hey! I think I'll go have a poo now."

On the biting: You said "We have tried to be firm with him about the hard biting" -- which I took to mean that you are okay with him doing the gentle mouthing and nibbling. He might be getting mixed messages, unable to differentiate from the "affection" biting that is acceptable vs. the angry hurty biting. A consistent pattern of "cats don't bite humans, ever" discipline could help him learn more effectively. The best way to keep any cat from biting is to train them that "hands aren't toys" to be rough with; hands deliver petting and scratching, and should be treated nicely. Using stuffed or scratch-proof toys during rough play helps them learn that toys are for biting and scratching and hands are for loving.

Overall on your kitty's biting though, it sounds like you've just got a bit of domestication ahead of you -- he's a feral cat getting used to a new home life... it might take some time.
posted by pineapple at 4:51 PM on December 1, 2007 [1 favorite]

We have a semi-feral shelter cat who, when over-stimulated, starts biting very aggressively. I just walk away. I say no, and I leave the room. He does it occasionally now, but not often. I don't like the shaking pennies method of training dogs because a friend's expensive and carefully chosen dog went ballistic over the pennies, started biting her people and very nearly had to be put down. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work on cats and might make your cat more aggressive.

If the cat won't let you walk away without scratching and biting, wear well-padded pants and long fireplace gloves. Don't let him stop you from leaving. Seconding that punishment won't work for a cat.
posted by clarkstonian at 5:17 PM on December 1, 2007

I can't add any more about techniques, etc., but I can tell you that my mother adopted a feral cat that also bit and could be quite ferocious. It took about 18 months for her to really calm down, but she did eventually learn and her behavior changed pretty radically although she's still more skittish/aggressive than most cats.
I also have a cat now who we adopted from the wild when she was about 2 months old, maybe a bit more. She never ever became as tame as our other cats and she is now more than 16 years old. She has always been quicker to scratch, run, hide, and hiss, and in her prime she caught multiple birds and chipmunks a day. I think maybe wild cats are always a bit wild and you can't expect them to be just like your average domestic kitty.
posted by ohio at 5:23 PM on December 1, 2007

Have you tried hissing at him when he bites you? Seriously. I read in a pet column somewhere that you should hiss at your cat when s/he does something you don't like. We tried it with our naughty young cat and it really did work--certainly got her to stop doing whatever she was doing, far better than shouting at her ever did. I've used it for play behavior that became more aggressive than I liked (biting or grabbing on with claws) and she'll generally loosen her hold and look confused long enough for me to withdraw.

Don't do a snaky hiss--open your mouth in a sneer so your teeth show, and hiss by breathing out with a H sound. It sounds more like cat hisses that way.
posted by dlugoczaj at 5:25 PM on December 1, 2007

I agree with the some of the comments above that you are actually egging him on. You need to teach NO biting, not good vs bad biting. I think you are making distinctions that are clear to you but confusing to the cat.

We've had good luck with a spray bottle (with plain water) as a deterrent. Probably as much due to the sound as to the water. Just a quick spray in the cat's direction with a firm "no" consistently applied at the moment of unwanted behavior will train the cat.

It's very important to be consistent with training. Don't play rough and then discipline him, that would be very perplexing to the cat. Why stir him up that much when you know it ends in bad behavior?

Maine Coons rock, you are very lucky to have such a great cat, and way to go for giving him a good home.
posted by quarterframer at 6:00 PM on December 1, 2007

Oh, and re the litter box behavior, some cats just like company. Certainly not all--I had one who I saw go to the bathroom maybe two or three times in the five years I had her. Her compatriot, I saw EVERY day. She very clearly chose to go potty when I did, and seemed quite cheerful about it.
posted by dlugoczaj at 6:04 PM on December 1, 2007

Once again it's worth looking at this great article about animal behaviour – basically, ignoring the behaviours you don't want to encourage.

Still, you can't exactly ignore a cat that's attacking you. It isn't always easy, but when a cat bites it sometimes works to go very still, and then (this is counterintuitive) push gently against its mouth. A cat's approach is all about escalating the attack when its prey tries to pull away. Usually if you can keep your head and do this still/push thing, the cat will just stop the attack and mooch away, obviously puzzled.
posted by zadcat at 9:53 PM on December 1, 2007

Canned air sounds like a cat hiss and mine will run and hide at the sight of the bottle.
posted by desjardins at 8:14 AM on December 2, 2007

Canned air or spray bottle (plain water) - good for both cats or dogs older than 6 monthes. (Less than that and they tend to tolerate or even enjoy the sensation)

(I cannot wait until the new bitey puppy (poopy) is old enough to use the spray - it is nothing short of miraculous)
posted by jkaczor at 3:18 PM on December 2, 2007

Sounds like a Maine Coon to me. Styles, my cat is this breed and I have had him since he was 8 weeks. His mother was feral and was taken care of for her pregnancy. He has always had this behavior, one minute everything is fine and the next he is in attack mode. This is just his personality as far as I am concerned. It can be annoying but I also like his gumption so I live with it. I don't think any of these behavioral modification techniques would wean him of this behavior.
posted by Odinhead at 6:39 PM on December 2, 2007

When the cat is biting you gently - that is normal for cats. It's affection-based and if it doesn't hurt, it seems wrong to me to discipline the cat when it's being nice towards you. Bad biting, obviously needs to be dealt with, but they are worlds apart TO THE CAT. So I don't really understand the "biting is unacceptable at all times" people. That most certainly confuses the cat to be rebuffed when he's trying to be nice. He does, however, expect retaliation when he is biting aggressively, so it makes sense to deal with that.
posted by agregoli at 9:25 AM on December 3, 2007

it seems wrong to me to discipline the cat when it's being nice towards you. Bad biting, obviously needs to be dealt with, but they are worlds apart TO THE CAT. So I don't really understand the "biting is unacceptable at all times" people. That most certainly confuses the cat to be rebuffed when he's trying to be nice.

This is contraindicated by all the veterinary information I've ever seen on socializing domestic cats, which seems to say pretty consistently that housepet cats need to be taught that all biting is unacceptable. You can rebuff the biting behavior while not rebuffing the affection; unfortunately, even affectionate play-biting is a form of predatory behavior from our feline friends, and the problem is not "is the cat intending to be affectionate in this one instance," but the precedent of allowing a long-term pattern of biting behavior to develop and then one day, the cat is not being affectionate, or what is "gentle enough" for adults is harmful to children, etc. Of course, YCMV.
posted by pineapple at 9:49 AM on December 3, 2007

Shrug. YMMV indeed. My cat certainly knows the difference between biting nicely and biting meanly. Cats are all radically different so I find it hard to believe that any approach for any behavior is going to be one size fits all.
posted by agregoli at 11:11 AM on December 3, 2007

I've got an adopted stray, too, who is quite mouthy. I spoke to an animal behaviorist who said that with my feral any and all biting should be discouraged. Total consistency. And sometimes I know my kitty is only doing gentle play bites, but she still gets a firm "No!" and dumped off the lap.

Also, scruffing only pissed her off, but the water bottle worked well for me. And a firm "No!". Not really yelling, just in a firm tone of voice. I swear she recognizes that tone now, and it's even worked to stop her in her tracks while she reaches for forbidden food or some such. Over the course of the last year she's chilled out quite a bit, and rarely bites now, and hasn't really done angry biting in months.

If she's really gone for it (scratch-and-bite freakout) she gets tossed in the bathroom, alone, to think about it for a few minutes. It works, I hope, as a time out, trying to get across to her tiny brain that scratching and biting do not equal attention.

(Often, for my cat, there is no such thing as bad attention.)
posted by lillygog at 12:11 PM on December 3, 2007

But I'll agree that every cat is different. Some people I know had great success with scruffing. My cat only gets angry. Luckily she's small.

So it might take a while to figure out which works best for your cat.
posted by lillygog at 12:12 PM on December 3, 2007

If your vet is suggesting scruffing/holding down an already hysterically distressed cat, it's time you found another vet, preferably one with some sound experience in feline behaviour.

Scruffing is about the best way to wind up further an already aggressive/over stimulated cat. Similarly, shoving your cat away is just adding to his stress levels and continuing the wind up. So far you have had some bites through jeans that draw blood. If you continue winding your cat up this way, next time it's highly likely you will have your fingers ripped open to the bone.

Forget punishment of any kind (air sprays, hitting the ground, hissing, pepper on fingers, tapping, hitting, smacking and particularly shouting/harsh tones of voice) it will only teach fear of punishment and won't allow your cat to learn that biting/attacking is not part of acceptable interaction. Punishment responses from you will teach your cat to fear you. The best way for the cat to learn that aggressive responses are not part of the behaviour repetoire is for you to set the culture by not allowing any of your interaction to lead to the responses you don't want from your cat.

Avoid overstimulating your cat with overly rough play. Buy yourself a good book on feline behaviour/motivational feline training and learn to recognise the small signals your cat will give that he's becoming over stimulated. Hard biting/attacking happen during play/petting when a cat who is relaxed suddenly realises that they are in a situation that is too intimate and they suddenly feel vulnerable. If you learn to stop play and interaction before your cat gets to the vulnerable point then you will avoid being bitten/attacked.

The kneading behaviour you describe is actually called "milk treading", kittens do it when lined up at Mum's Milk Bar, it stimulates the flow of milk. When adolescent and adult cats do it, it can usually be interpreted as a seeking gesture. The cat could be seeking petting or food. Kittens who have just nursed at the breast usually fall asleep after a feed, so with an adult cat it's often the precursor to the cat settling down for a nap. Milk Treading is thought to be an instinctive behaviour that is built on with life experience, with some cats it can be a signal of distress/anxiety too. In my experience it has nothing to do with being weaned at too early an age.

Finally, give your cat a break. You say you only adopted him two months ago and he was formerly feral. If he was over 12 weeks old when he was first trapped, then you will have a cat who is going to need a long period of adjustment to living the domestic life - 18 months at least. You can aid his adjustment by ensuring he has plenty of his own space, beds high up that are allowed to smell of him, dark places to lurk when he feels like it. It's a tremendous shock for a feral animal to be brought into close proximity to humans. Be respectful of his needs in that department

I would forget your own history with "aggressive" animals and try thinking of him less as an adversary and more as a friend who has difficulty understanding things and needs time and particularly quiet. If you can learn what his body language is telling you, you will stand a better chance of helping him learn.

The Maine Coon breed is notorious as being it's own person, that means, they tend to prefer to instigate interaction on their own terms. If you allow him to choose when he interacts with you, then with patience, rewarding his good behaviour and ignoring (walking away) from behaviour you don't want him to display, you will be giving him the very best chance of adapting to domestic life.

If your cat was living in a feral colony it's quite likely that the colony had one or two areas which they used as a midden (toilet), of course this would be full of the smells of his social group. When predators urinate and defecate they are physically vulnerable, therefore an area that smells strongly of an activity where animals have felt confident to be vulnerable will feel safe to your cat. Similarly your bathroom, no matter how much you clean it will always smell of you (his new social group) When you are in the bathroom using it, the smell will be even stronger and give him the message that it's a safe place and a safe time to take that all important dump.

Good luck!
posted by Arqa at 1:30 PM on December 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

Some great posts on this regarding your cat's behavior (arqa, pineapple), especially noting to change your vet for offering that awful advice on scruffing. Man, that's bad. Anyways, one thing that worked for me was regularly scheduled, structured play with a 'da Bird' toy. The thing is a miracle. Ten minutes, twice a day, and the aggression declined, the cat knew when playtime was, and that was that. Regarding the litter box, a formerly feral cat using a litterbox consistently--give thanks! But if the stink is getting you, you might get him on a higher quality diet (nix the kibble).
posted by Stubby the Cat at 9:58 AM on December 7, 2007

This thread is very interesting to me. We have a cat whom we found around a garbage dumpster one night while on vacation, my best guess is he was MAYBE 7 weeks old. He weighed 14 oz. when we brought him into a vet the next day (no sign of other kittens in the area, we looked hard come morning). I pretty much hand-raised him, wrapping him up in a towel and "wearing him" just above my cleavage under my sweatshirts, droppering his worming medicine, and keeping him in our family tub for another month or two until he was old enough to jump out.

He was a shaky little guy but he pulled through. He is so different from other cats I have had. He does not knead AT ALL. He was a champ at litterbox training. He bites like crazy, after a minute or so of being petted. Not hard enough to draw blood, but he likes to bite. He also fetches. If he's riled from a playful tug-bite session and you throw a stuffed animal, he will run for it and bring it back to you, for you to throw it again. He was neutered at 6 months but still mounts the little stuffed animals, his "girlfriends", we call them.

He's not quite a year now and just loves to bite. Also does not rub up against us, he just likes to climb on people, and then when you pet him, he tolerates it for a minute and then goes into the play-biting session.

I find it so interesting that cats can be so different. I have had cats that rub, rub rub, knead, knead etc. ... this cat bites, and he was the youngest cat I ever had when we found him. I was happy he lived, to be honest.
posted by KWittman at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2008