June 3, 2004

10:48 PM

[MusicTheoryFilter] I listen to techno music quite a bit and a little while back I realized that every techno song had some sort of change every 32 beats (or some multiple of 32 beats) [MI]
posted by freshgroundpepper to (15 comments total)

After doing a little research on the web, I found that this is because those 32 beats (aka a "phrase") are composed of 8 bars, each bar being composed of 4 beats.

My question is, why is it _always_ 32 beats? Is it because it makes mixing/dancing easier and more predictable? Why were 8 bars chosen and not 10? Something to do with powers of 2?
posted by freshgroundpepper at 10:48 PM on June 3, 2004

Techno music is intended to be unimaginative. You're not supposed to think while listening to it.
posted by interrobang at 11:02 PM on June 3, 2004

IIRC, even in classical music, phrases tend to be some multiple of four bars in length. This isn't something unique to techno.
posted by kickingtheground at 11:44 PM on June 3, 2004

Powers of 2. It's nothing strictly to do with techno, but I guess it's just more obvious in that style. If you look at rock songs, for instance, they might have a chord progression:

C G F Am
C G F D

Each might be played for a bar, so we end up with a nice, even multiple, once again totalling 8 bars. I don't believe every techno song repeats with 8 bars, by the way - some may repeat with 16, but I know what your saying. A repeating pattern of only 4 would probably be a bit too repetitive, but it's not uncommon in gabba/hardcore techno.

It's just the way contemporary songs are generally written - I think the ear expects to hear an even number, generally a power of two. If a phrase goes for 7 bars, instead of 8, I guarantee you'll be thinking "hang on...there's a missing note there".

Jazz and classical don't follow the same rules, and are inherently more complex in how the songs are planned.
posted by Jimbob at 11:48 PM on June 3, 2004

Music in which everything is unique and creative is generally messy, noisy, and unpleasant. Certain key elements are generally made stable, so that listeners can focus on and enjoy the other elements that are changing.

12-bar blues is a great example of a very simple "formula" that gives a feeling a comfort with the song (aftering hearing a few, you instinctively understand what chords are coming, etc.), but rather than being boring, it allows you to enjoy the variations introduced by the particular piece and performers.

The same goes for techno. It's not supposed to be "unimaginative" -- certain elements are made simple so that listeners can focus on other elements. When I listen to techno, I don't hear "thump thump thump thump" -- I hear everything that's going on around that.
posted by oissubke at 11:52 PM on June 3, 2004

To play off Jimbob's comment:

Most western music comes in sets of 2, 3, 4, or 6. Some also plays with less common numbers like 5 or 7. One of my favorite pieces is a Dave Brubeck piece done in 9....it goes something like 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 3.

Several popular rock/pop groups or performers also use unusual times in their music. I was just listening to Fiona Apple and Clutch today, and noticed some interesting times there, for example.
posted by oissubke at 11:56 PM on June 3, 2004

Jim: I call prejudice! Rock music's signatures can be pretty nonstandard, and not just math rock that's trying to be that way.

Radiohead (I admit I'm being cliched by using them as an example of rock being intelligent) very naturally use odd signatures. 2+2=5 starts in a 7/8 that is frustrating to try to pin down, You is some really esoteric one like 28/7 (that's not it, that'd be too esoteric ;) ), Pyramid Song is so unusual it's actually still debated whether it's an 11/8 or a very inflected, jazzy 4/4 (the latter side is winning, granted). Sail to the Moon, perhaps most interestingly, switches signatures practically every measure.

You can, by the way, read scores of some of those songs from Mary's Radiohead piano scores, and others, full arrangements, from the soon-published scorebook for Chris O'Riley's True Love Waits album. RH songs have classical sophistication without being at all hostile to the untrained ear.
posted by abcde at 1:51 AM on June 4, 2004

nope. 100% for mixing purposes.

when you're mixing two records, you always start on the first measure of an 8 (usually it's every 8 measures you get a change, thus your thirty two beats).

In this manner, you always know when the breaks are going to be. Let's say, for example, you start mixing with a track on the 3rd measure of the, uh, sequence (i'm lacking musical terms here, sorry) -- if you start the second on the 1st measure, the first is going to break into something that may, perhaps, be rather unpleasant in a mix within 5 more measures.

Good DJs, who know how to mix, need to know their records REALLY WELL. If you know there's a change every 8 measures, you don't need to be super-familiar with the record. You just need to cue it to the right point (first of the 8, which you can usually find by noticing some sort of drum fill on the 8), and then, during mixing, you can pretty much expect where the changes come in. Having a change every 8 measures is pretty much the rule. You'll see this a lot with house and other genres as well -- in fact, nearly all tracks intended for club/dance performance was made this way. On a lot of older tracks you'll see "DJ FRIENDLY" stickers, which meant mostly that they'd have a long ending of simple four-four beats, but you'd probably also expect it to change every 8.

Also, techno music is less "song" based and more "additive" based -- meaning that every eight you'll either add or take away an element.

basically, it's strictly for ease of mixing. also, it sounds good. If you've ever made music and let something go (the same beat/melody/etc) play for more than 8 measures, it starts to sound (even more) repetitive. 8 measures is about the most you can go without a fill or something else to make it interesting -- especially when you have no vocals (vox make a track move without changing the backing, because they're basically another track. If you listen to a lot of contemporary pop songs -- particularly rap -- you'll find there's very little change-up in the backing; basically they let the vocals carry it. A great example is that dangermouse jay-z remix, where he basically makes *three* loops per song and plays them repeatedly. No one notices because the jay-z acapellas do most of the work carrying the track. hell, it's critically acclaimed, apparently.)

as for the folks who believe techno is unimaginative, i've got a great new genre you'd be really into -- it's called basscore, and it's basically a 4/4 bass kick (and ONLY a kick) which, over time, changes tone slightly. I'm sure you'd love it.

(yeah, modernism had to hit techno at some point)

oh, and as for the "nope", i wasn't meaning to denigrate anyone else's answer, but I hadn't seen this one yet, which is, from what I understand, the "correct" one. When I was learning to mix, the very first thing I was told is "dude, it changes every eight. so look for that. it's key".
posted by fishfucker at 2:41 AM on June 4, 2004

Not every techno album is done in powers of two.
posted by yerfatma at 4:56 AM on June 4, 2004

Hey yerfatma: that is not techno. That's trip hop. Or drum and bass. Depends on who you ask. It has elements of both. But you're the first person I've encountered mistaking Lamb for a techno outfit.

That's kind of like saying that Metal Church does classic rock. Sure, same instrumentation....different style, though.
posted by jaded at 8:52 AM on June 4, 2004

Thanks to everyone with constructive input. Sounds like it's similar to how most people use a decimal system for counting, but could just have easily used octal. 8 bars (32 beats) are used, cause that's what everyone is expecting them to use.

yerfatma: whoa, that's a strange coincidence that you'd link to that Lamb album. It's the only thing on Amazon that I've submitted a review for (under a different user name). I do agree with jaded on his "not techno" assessment though.
posted by freshgroundpepper at 9:24 AM on June 4, 2004

Thomas Fehlmann (sometime/former member of The Orb among others) has a wonderful song("Superbock") on Visions of Blah (his latest album) that switches from 4/4 to 6/8 halfway through. There's also the whole Mike Ink/Profan/german microhouse gang that does lots of really odd time signatures in some of their stuff. Often it makes me feel nauseous, like my heart is skipping beats or something.

On a related note, if you ever want to have the time of your life, see Fehlmann live sometime. Absolutely indescribable.
posted by 40 Watt at 4:13 PM on June 4, 2004

I've been playing with beat detection algorithms for a while, and the only thing that's biting me at the moment is OutKast's "Hey Ya!". It's got an odd structure, which breaks things awkwardly. It's definitely a rare exception tho.
posted by Flat Feet Pete at 4:51 PM on June 4, 2004

Flat Fleet Pete: As for extra beats, you'ven ever listened to "Happiness is a Warm Gun." The "Mother superior jump the gun" bit has alternating measures of 3 and 4, if I recall correctly. One of the most classic examples.
posted by abcde at 1:50 PM on June 5, 2004

Y'know, I must agree with the music critics who say Andre 3000 has matured incredibly in the last couple albums. Rap is the most 4/4 medium ever.
posted by abcde at 2:02 PM on June 5, 2004