Is my dealer running a Prius scam on me?
November 12, 2007 6:58 AM Subscribe
Is my dealer running a Prius scam on me?
We love our Prius, almost everything about it. The almost is that you generally need to bring it back to your Toyota dealer to service it. So here's the wrinkle.
Every 5,000 miles or so a "maintenance required" light pops up and remains annoyingly on the dashboard. The first time it happened I called the dealer and they said, "Oh, there's nothing wrong. That's just telling you you need to bring it in for scheduled maintenance. We'll switch it off when you get here." So when I go, I ask them to switch it off permanently since I can remember quite nicely when, or when not, to bring my own car somewhere for servicing. They tell me they can't. Gave me some gibberish about it being part of a computer module that would have to be replaced at my expense and yadda yadda.
This smells like I'm being fed a load. (These are the same guys when I called them last week to say I'm bringing the car in for regular service and could they give me a price on snow tires, said, "No. We can't give you a price till you bring the car in." Yeah, right. I bought them somewhere else this weekend.) But since I don't have many alternatives for servicing the unique systems of a Prius, I'm at a loss. I'm taking it in again tomorrow and I'd love to have a better feel for what's going on because I'm going to press them on this again.
Arm me oh hive populus.
We love our Prius, almost everything about it. The almost is that you generally need to bring it back to your Toyota dealer to service it. So here's the wrinkle.
Every 5,000 miles or so a "maintenance required" light pops up and remains annoyingly on the dashboard. The first time it happened I called the dealer and they said, "Oh, there's nothing wrong. That's just telling you you need to bring it in for scheduled maintenance. We'll switch it off when you get here." So when I go, I ask them to switch it off permanently since I can remember quite nicely when, or when not, to bring my own car somewhere for servicing. They tell me they can't. Gave me some gibberish about it being part of a computer module that would have to be replaced at my expense and yadda yadda.
This smells like I'm being fed a load. (These are the same guys when I called them last week to say I'm bringing the car in for regular service and could they give me a price on snow tires, said, "No. We can't give you a price till you bring the car in." Yeah, right. I bought them somewhere else this weekend.) But since I don't have many alternatives for servicing the unique systems of a Prius, I'm at a loss. I'm taking it in again tomorrow and I'd love to have a better feel for what's going on because I'm going to press them on this again.
Arm me oh hive populus.
They are right in that it's part of the cars programming and not something they can do anything about.
posted by zeoslap at 7:07 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by zeoslap at 7:07 AM on November 12, 2007
And then they'd suggest you find a new service department.
posted by notyou at 7:08 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by notyou at 7:08 AM on November 12, 2007
Chances are they are telling the truth about the maintenance light. This is no doubt something in the ECU that triggers at the scheduled service intervals as determined by Toyota, not your dealer.
Usually the owner manual will tell you what is supposed to be done at each interval. Again, this is Toyota's determination, not your dealer's.
(FWIW my Audi does the same thing, I think for oil changes. I have an OBD tool to reset it myself)
posted by kableh at 7:08 AM on November 12, 2007
Usually the owner manual will tell you what is supposed to be done at each interval. Again, this is Toyota's determination, not your dealer's.
(FWIW my Audi does the same thing, I think for oil changes. I have an OBD tool to reset it myself)
posted by kableh at 7:08 AM on November 12, 2007
Best answer: Here's instructions on how to reset the light on your own.
posted by backupjesus at 7:10 AM on November 12, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by backupjesus at 7:10 AM on November 12, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yep, kableh, it's to notify the driver that the oil needs changing. You may notice that it starts up approximately 200 miles prior to the 5000 mile mark-since-last change -- that's when I've noticed my Scion "maintenance" light starts blinking, anyway.
posted by odi.et.amo at 7:18 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by odi.et.amo at 7:18 AM on November 12, 2007
Check to make sure you're not voiding your warranty by not taking the car to them...
posted by stratastar at 7:19 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by stratastar at 7:19 AM on November 12, 2007
It's the oil change. Take it anywhere you please for an oil change and they will reset the light after changing your oil. You can buy a tool to reset it yourself if you change your own oil.
posted by caddis at 7:21 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by caddis at 7:21 AM on November 12, 2007
Check to make sure you're not voiding your warranty by not taking the car to them...
posted by stratastar at 10:19 AM on November 12 [+] [!]
You can have you maintenance done by anyone without voiding the warranty, but you do have to at least perform the maintenance.
posted by caddis at 7:23 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by stratastar at 10:19 AM on November 12 [+] [!]
You can have you maintenance done by anyone without voiding the warranty, but you do have to at least perform the maintenance.
posted by caddis at 7:23 AM on November 12, 2007
Not to be unsympathetic, because I wouldn't want anyone to have monopoly-like power over my choices either, but you sound a little paranoid. It doesn't surprise me a bit that the dealer would refuse to make modifications not sanctioned by Toyota. If that light is intended to cue you to do necessary maintenance, and they unplug it, then who's responsible if the car breaks because maintenance wasn't done?
Getting the tires elsewhere was probably a good move.
posted by jon1270 at 7:35 AM on November 12, 2007
Getting the tires elsewhere was probably a good move.
posted by jon1270 at 7:35 AM on November 12, 2007
If it's anything like my fiance's Scion, it's very easy to reset. IIRC, on ours it involves holding down the little knob when you start the car. It's possible to change the interval Just do whatever BackupJesus tells you to. Again, if it's like my Scion, you can also change the interval, in increments of 1000 miles. Ours was set to 3K, and I changed it to 5K.
posted by YoungAmerican at 7:45 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by YoungAmerican at 7:45 AM on November 12, 2007
You can have you maintenance done by anyone without voiding the warranty,
That is not necessarily correct while still within the manufacturers warranty. Check the small print very closely before moving away from a dealer while still under warranty. Non-manufacturer warranties can sometimes demand that work is carried out at the dealer that gave you the warranty (or a manufacturer approved alternative).
Again, always check the small print of warranties before deviating from the intended plan.
posted by Brockles at 7:49 AM on November 12, 2007
That is not necessarily correct while still within the manufacturers warranty. Check the small print very closely before moving away from a dealer while still under warranty. Non-manufacturer warranties can sometimes demand that work is carried out at the dealer that gave you the warranty (or a manufacturer approved alternative).
Again, always check the small print of warranties before deviating from the intended plan.
posted by Brockles at 7:49 AM on November 12, 2007
what it means
Seriously, though, you probably can get away just fine with having it serviced slightly less often than recommended.
posted by oaf at 8:08 AM on November 12, 2007
Seriously, though, you probably can get away just fine with having it serviced slightly less often than recommended.
posted by oaf at 8:08 AM on November 12, 2007
Response by poster: Wow. Thank you all. The only question I have is ... if resetting the light just involes a series of steps with the power button etc., why wouldn't the dealer say, "Yeah, there's a way to do it with a series of things involving the power button. We'll be happy to do that for you but you may want to know that missing a service could result in ...."
Them not telling me that gives me a better bearing on how they operate. (And lest you think I'm overly paranoid, they've done a few weird other things, too; things I just didn't detail here. Things like telling me over the phone I needed two new tires, then when I showed up and asked to see the old tires, they mysteriously weren't around. And the time they 'fixed' the tire on my daughter's Scion and when I walked out to the lot, I found the tire was flat. And the time ... well, you get the picture.)
posted by lpsguy at 8:32 AM on November 12, 2007
Them not telling me that gives me a better bearing on how they operate. (And lest you think I'm overly paranoid, they've done a few weird other things, too; things I just didn't detail here. Things like telling me over the phone I needed two new tires, then when I showed up and asked to see the old tires, they mysteriously weren't around. And the time they 'fixed' the tire on my daughter's Scion and when I walked out to the lot, I found the tire was flat. And the time ... well, you get the picture.)
posted by lpsguy at 8:32 AM on November 12, 2007
Brockles, it would be a violation of law for the auto manufacturer to tie in their service to the sale of the auto through the warranty. See: Magnuson-Moss
posted by caddis at 8:40 AM on November 12, 2007
posted by caddis at 8:40 AM on November 12, 2007
That they wouldn't tell you straight up the purpose and function of that light, that they wouldn't give you a price on the tires over the phone, and that you have been dissatisfied with their work in the past are good indicators that it's time to reset your relationship with that service department.
If you really want to know the ins and outs of your car (and to find recommendations for reliable service departments in your area), Google around for a Prius fanboy forum or two. There must be scads of them.
posted by notyou at 8:47 AM on November 12, 2007
If you really want to know the ins and outs of your car (and to find recommendations for reliable service departments in your area), Google around for a Prius fanboy forum or two. There must be scads of them.
posted by notyou at 8:47 AM on November 12, 2007
Oddly, on my 2005 Prius, I don't recall ever having seen that light.
How much do snow tyres cost BTW?
posted by NailsTheCat at 8:54 AM on November 12, 2007
How much do snow tyres cost BTW?
posted by NailsTheCat at 8:54 AM on November 12, 2007
Not that they're not acting skeevy with other things, but I can see a number of liability reasons a dealer (or any mechanic) wouldn't tell you the secret maneuver to turn that light off, or how to turn off the seatbelt beep, or how to hack your reverse camera. Something happens, you sue, it sucks.
But you can find all those things on priuschat.com and priusonline.com.
I have not had the most delightful service ever from our Toyota dealer, either. We still take our Priuses to Toyota (different dealership, one visit so far) so we can mindlessly comply with warranty service and because I'm not in the mood to find a reliable hybrid mechanic just yet, but we had a few eyerollers with our old Scion and I've had some irritating tire business with my Prius. I just kind of expect it anymore, but I do think the maintenance light thing is not exactly in the same category.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:01 AM on November 12, 2007 [1 favorite]
But you can find all those things on priuschat.com and priusonline.com.
I have not had the most delightful service ever from our Toyota dealer, either. We still take our Priuses to Toyota (different dealership, one visit so far) so we can mindlessly comply with warranty service and because I'm not in the mood to find a reliable hybrid mechanic just yet, but we had a few eyerollers with our old Scion and I've had some irritating tire business with my Prius. I just kind of expect it anymore, but I do think the maintenance light thing is not exactly in the same category.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:01 AM on November 12, 2007 [1 favorite]
stratastar writes "Check to make sure you're not voiding your warranty by not taking the car to them..."
It's not, at least for cars. In the US the Magnuson-Moss act has prevented this kind of scam since the 70s.
posted by Mitheral at 9:43 AM on November 12, 2007
It's not, at least for cars. In the US the Magnuson-Moss act has prevented this kind of scam since the 70s.
posted by Mitheral at 9:43 AM on November 12, 2007
so we can mindlessly comply with warranty service
Generally, doing the "mindless" maintenance visits cost you a LOT. Many, perhaps most, dealers tack on services that are not listed in the maintenance schedule of your owners manual. I find I can cut the cost of major mainenance services by about 1/3 by walking in with my manual and going through the dealer's list line-by-line, crossing out things like "emissions system service" and "fuel injector cleaning" that aren't mentioned on my owners manual maintenance schedule at all.
posted by Doohickie at 9:53 AM on November 12, 2007 [1 favorite]
Generally, doing the "mindless" maintenance visits cost you a LOT. Many, perhaps most, dealers tack on services that are not listed in the maintenance schedule of your owners manual. I find I can cut the cost of major mainenance services by about 1/3 by walking in with my manual and going through the dealer's list line-by-line, crossing out things like "emissions system service" and "fuel injector cleaning" that aren't mentioned on my owners manual maintenance schedule at all.
posted by Doohickie at 9:53 AM on November 12, 2007 [1 favorite]
Item 1:
Hello? Isn't anyone going to recommend finding a way better dealer? Your profile doesn't give your location, but surely, there are other choices?
I recently bought a new Honda.
Five years ago we went to the Honda dealership that's eight miles to the North and bought a car there. When we went there this time, they were assholes.
So we went off to the dealership that's ten miles South of us, and they were awesome. They also got the sale.
Item 2:
As pointed out above, it's illegal to void your warranty for getting service from outfits other than your dealer/manufacturer. You should exercise your right to go somewhere else for regular servicing in this case, as the dealership is just about the most expensive place on earth to get an oil change. Your local Jiffy Lube is probably cheaper, and if there's a gearhead in your family who's willing, that'll be the way not to get ripped off.
Item 3:
It's your civic duty not to give assholes your money. They've jerked you around enough. Don't go back there.
posted by SlyBevel at 12:52 PM on November 12, 2007
Hello? Isn't anyone going to recommend finding a way better dealer? Your profile doesn't give your location, but surely, there are other choices?
I recently bought a new Honda.
Five years ago we went to the Honda dealership that's eight miles to the North and bought a car there. When we went there this time, they were assholes.
So we went off to the dealership that's ten miles South of us, and they were awesome. They also got the sale.
Item 2:
As pointed out above, it's illegal to void your warranty for getting service from outfits other than your dealer/manufacturer. You should exercise your right to go somewhere else for regular servicing in this case, as the dealership is just about the most expensive place on earth to get an oil change. Your local Jiffy Lube is probably cheaper, and if there's a gearhead in your family who's willing, that'll be the way not to get ripped off.
Item 3:
It's your civic duty not to give assholes your money. They've jerked you around enough. Don't go back there.
posted by SlyBevel at 12:52 PM on November 12, 2007
Brockles, it would be a violation of law for the auto manufacturer to tie in their service to the sale of the auto through the warranty.
Caddis, you do know that there is more than one country in the World, right? The OP didn't specify a location, and non-approved maintenance voiding warranties is certainly common where I'm from (UK).
Checking the small print is always a good thing. Assuming you are ok is not.
posted by Brockles at 3:42 PM on November 12, 2007
Caddis, you do know that there is more than one country in the World, right? The OP didn't specify a location, and non-approved maintenance voiding warranties is certainly common where I'm from (UK).
Checking the small print is always a good thing. Assuming you are ok is not.
posted by Brockles at 3:42 PM on November 12, 2007
as the dealership is just about the most expensive place on earth to get an oil change.
I pay $15.95 at the dealer including OEM filter, fwiw...
posted by Doohickie at 5:41 AM on November 13, 2007
I pay $15.95 at the dealer including OEM filter, fwiw...
posted by Doohickie at 5:41 AM on November 13, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:01 AM on November 12, 2007