Comments on: Toilet lid up or down when you're finished?

Question: Toilet lid up or down when you're finished?

emelenjr — Wed, 26 May 2004 18:53:48 -0800

Toiletfilter: Up or down? And before you answer, I'm not talking about which way to hang the toilet paper. (Lift the lid and come inside.)

OK. You've done your business, any kind of business. See the toilet lid? What do you do with it? What are you supposed to do with it? Me, I like closing the lid. Whoever uses the toilet next—male or female—must make a choice to either lift the lid and the seat, or just the lid. And besides, leaving the lid up—even if the bowl is spotless—just doesn't seem right. What's the lid there for, if it's not meant to be used as a lid? (I just got read the riot act by the woman who gave birth to me 30 years ago this very day for closing the lid and not assuming that the next person to use the toilet might not remember to look at the damn toilet before she sat down.)

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Wed, 26 May 2004 18:55:47 -0800

(And I must say I laughed a little bit.)

By: brownpau

brownpau — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:06:59 -0800

I have only one thing to say: Heather Champ is wrong, wrong, wrong. Her toilet paper sense comes from Bizarro World.

:)

By: jdroth

jdroth — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:07:52 -0800

Ah, yes, a topic near and dear to my heart. I am a male raised in a family of males (poor mom was the lone exception); I was raised to leave the seat up.

In college, when I started having female roommates, the position of the seat was always a point of contention. "Leave it down!" they cried, but I argued that these feminists were being sexist. "Deal with it," I said.

In the end, though, I decided that rather than be a jerk, I could reach the same compromise you've reached, emelenjr: I close the whole damn thing. Nobody seems to mind.

By: brownpau

brownpau — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:11:00 -0800

Whoa. Um, I have no idea what I was thinking when I posted that reply above. Somehow it was "toilet paper" that registered in my brain rather than "toilet lid," and my first thought was that page I'd seen in the harrumph archive. So sorry. I don't know what came over me.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:11:38 -0800

It's meant to be used as a lid, but sparingly. It gives short people something to stand upon when they change lights above the sink and it keeps the cat from sloshing around in the bowl if you remember to close the lid at night. And if you're my mother, the lid holds some fuzzy decorative cover (or it did in the 80's).

Most people have come to expect that it will be open most of the time. But it's not quite vestigial.

By: lasm

lasm — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:19:11 -0800

If you put the lid down before flushing, fecal particles won't spew across the bathroom and get inhaled. And who doesn't look in the toilet before sitting down? What if sewer rats have found their way into the bowl and bites you in the ass? Ouch!

By: fvw

fvw — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:23:56 -0800

For those of us in small housing (which means the toilet is in the bathroom alas) lids are essential. In other words, I always close it.

By: vito90

vito90 — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:25:50 -0800

Two thoughts:

1) It kills me that (some) women treat this like the most important issue in a relationship. A man who doesn't close the lid can't be good, a man who does can't be bad. Abigal Van Buren once excoriated a reader for being ready to leave her man because the only thing he did wrong (according to her) was leave the seat up. One stand-up comedian way back said it best when he said, "Ladies, late at night, when you're backing your way into the seat, why would you take a 50% chance that you're going to hit water? LOOK! fer chrissakes!"

2) I have a reputation among women folk for ALWAYS, 100% of the time putting the seat down after use. If you can name an easier, cheaper way to build goodwill among the fairer sex, please share it. Guys, this is known as low-hanging fruit. Put the seat down, it's the easiest, most effective thing you'll ever do to maintain harmony.

By: BlueTrain

BlueTrain — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:32:14 -0800

If you can name an easier, cheaper way to build goodwill among the fairer sex, please share it.

I simply sleep with them. And listen to them. Sometimes, both at the same time. It's fascinating.

By: JanetLand

JanetLand — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:33:52 -0800

If you ever drop a towel or an open bottle of aspirin while in the bathroom, you will see the wisdom of closing the lid when the toilet is not in use. You may recognize the voice of experience here.

By: konolia

konolia — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:37:08 -0800

I've never fallen in, so whatever we do at our house works.

By: i_cola

i_cola — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:46:04 -0800

After years of being polite & leaving the seat down, I recently realised that it is a bad thing in a unisex toilet situation. This is because there are a lot of men who will quite happily pee without lifting the seat.

Therefore if you leave the seat up you will save future sitters from the seat-peeing-on guy that may follow you.

At home I keep the seat & the lid closed for asthetic reasons.

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Wed, 26 May 2004 19:49:28 -0800

The lid must be up, the seat down and it follows this simple logic:

1) if the lid is up, if you're in a intestinal rush, you'll be so damn proud of it being up !

2) the seat must be down, for the above reason and to improve your (for males) aiming accurancy

The whole lot remains open for anybody to see (and god everybody takes photo at my toilet and praises it...yeah sure) so it must be kept CLEAN, spotless clean. Keeping it closed demotivates people from keeping it spotless the way it should be.

By: Blue Stone

Blue Stone — Wed, 26 May 2004 20:00:09 -0800

I don't care. In whatever state I discover the toilet seat/lid, I find it painless to alter its position to suit my needs. I figure any mature and mentally sound individual who finds the toilet after I've left it in either state will be capable of doing the same.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Wed, 26 May 2004 20:01:10 -0800

The seat must be down to improve males' aiming? That's asking for trouble, I think.

I never leave the seat up. I'm always good about that, even though I've spent more years living alone than the few I've spent living with someone else. My mother, bless her for giving birth to me, is the only woman I've come across who has put up a fuss about the lid not being left up in anticipation of her arrival. Woe unto you if you leave the seat up, too.

The bathroom in question is a downstairs half-bath (that means no bathtub or shower, if that's not clear) that no one in my parents' home can really claim to be their own. It's a communal room.

By: carter

carter — Wed, 26 May 2004 20:03:33 -0800

I think lid down looks better.

By: kindall

kindall — Wed, 26 May 2004 20:23:44 -0800

For those of us in small housing (which means the toilet is in the bathroom alas)

... there are houses in which the toilet is not in a bathroom? I believe having a toilet in a room makes it a bathroom, or at least a half bath.

By: Fupped Duck

Fupped Duck — Wed, 26 May 2004 20:36:22 -0800

Close the lid before flushing.

The act of flushing creates a fine aerosol mist that spreads all kinds of flora & fauna from your bowl to your bathroom and beyond.

If you wanna wait arounf till the flush is completed to raise the lid again, great. But life's short enough as it is so lower the lid before you flush to contain the spray, and go on with your own bad self.

By: Grod

Grod — Wed, 26 May 2004 20:53:10 -0800

vito90, well, that and not pissing on the seat... not that I've ever done that.

By: bonaldi

bonaldi — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:11:10 -0800

Lid down is scary. There could be anything lurking under that, and to find out you have to bend closer to it and put your face and hands near it. Eugh. It's like opening an outside bin late at night.

That said, I prefer seat-down, and I'm in a house of men. Hell, how hard is it to learn to aim? I never hit the seat.

By: AstroGuy

AstroGuy — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:29:59 -0800

We have two dogs in the house so our policy is lid shut.

By: Succa

Succa — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:33:32 -0800

I put the lid down always. It's a toilet, for godssakes. Think of what gets done in there.

By: web-goddess

web-goddess — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:34:12 -0800

We used to be a lid-up/seat-down household until we got our kitten a few months ago. Now the habit of closing the lid is so well-ingrained that I do it at other people's houses. I even caught myself going for the lid at the cinema the other day...

By: rhapsodie

rhapsodie — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:39:23 -0800

When we used the bathroom as a large kennel for crate training the puppy, she would often jump onto the toilet sheet, then the counter, and hop over the baby gate into the hallway. We quickly learned to keep the seat up (she is a small dog and cannot get her head into the bowl).

Other than that, it doesn't matter in our home, though its usually up more than not. We look at the toilet before using the facilities.

By: bingo

bingo — Wed, 26 May 2004 21:56:40 -0800

The seat is left down when you live with women. But when you are a man taking a piss, you put the seat up during the act itself. The lid, as distinct from the seat, is there for decoration, or to stand on when changing the lightbulb.

By: scarabic

scarabic — Wed, 26 May 2004 22:13:46 -0800

I just got read the riot act by the woman who gave birth to me 30 years ago this very day for closing the lid and not assuming that the next person to use the toilet might not remember to look at the damn toilet before she sat down.

This is the same logic from the toilet seat debate. Do women just rush into the bathroom blind, reading a book or something, and plop their naked ass down without bothering to glance what they're about to sit and piss on? What if someone is already sitting on the toilet? Presumably, if they can see that, they can see a lid and/or seat, right? Anyone ever sat down to take a nice crap and had your woman rush in with her nose in a book, sit down on you and start peeing?

if you leave the seat up you will save future sitters from the seat-peeing-on guy that may follow you.

Don't forget that some women stand-and-spray in all unisex restrooms, too. Men have bad aim, sure, but a spraying female will really soak the place down. Ever wonder how it is that men manage to pee allllll the way around the toilet seat? I'm not so sure it's always a man that's doing that!

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Wed, 26 May 2004 22:14:28 -0800

In our house (3 males, 2 females) the lid is up, and the seat is down, but only at night. During the day the lid and seat are both up.

This arrangement allows for maximum target area for the males during the daytime and minimum falling-in possibility for the females in the dark.

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Wed, 26 May 2004 22:26:32 -0800

If you put the lid down before flushing, fecal particles won't spew across the bathroom and get inhaled.

Word. Lid down, then flush. There was some study recently (I'm too sleepy to search for it) that showed there were, on average, more fecal particles on the average toothbrush than in the average toilet bowl. Ugh.

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Wed, 26 May 2004 22:27:13 -0800

God, I must be sleepy.

I can't believe I just used the word "word" in that way.

By: jjg

jjg — Wed, 26 May 2004 22:40:38 -0800

Lid down, for the same reason you close a kitchen cabinet, a refrigerator, a washing machine, a closet, a dishwasher, a drawer, a medicine cabinet, a laundry dryer, a garage, a toy box, a freezer, a garbage can, or a book: because you're finished using it.

By: nelleish

nelleish — Wed, 26 May 2004 23:03:24 -0800

Am I the only woman who couldn't care less about what position the lid is in? I leave it up half the time myself. Sometimes I remember to put it down, sometimes I don't. I would agree the lid down is more aestetically pleasing, but if it's just me and my family wandering around, meh*.

However, leaving the seat up in unforgivable, if only because I have fallen into so many goddamn toilets in the dark and it's a very alarming experience. I won't deny this is a selfish request, as having never stood up to pee myself I don't see the desperate need for two inches of additional target diameter. You can AIM can't you?

*I do leave the toilet in the state I found it in at another person's house.

By: Guy Smiley

Guy Smiley — Wed, 26 May 2004 23:03:27 -0800

Anyone ever sat down to take a nice crap and had your woman rush in with her nose in a book, sit down on you and start peeing?

scarabic has just ensured that I will always lock the door. Always.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Wed, 26 May 2004 23:22:05 -0800

You had to ruin my argument with your asterisk, nelleish. That's essentially what I did "wrong".
But I'm with jjg. When you're finished, you close up shop.

By: Shoeburyness

Shoeburyness — Wed, 26 May 2004 23:22:50 -0800

... there are houses in which the toilet is not in a bathroom?

I used to live in a house where in the master bathroom, the toilet was in its own little room by itself, adjoining the rest of the bathroom, with its own door. This was a very large bathroom in a rather large house, but it's not that unusual in the McMansions of suburbia. In my current house, the master bath toilet is in a room with the shower, and the sink is quite near, but separated by a door.

As to the toilet seat, generally I leave the lid up. My husband has had it drilled into him by his mother and sisters to always put the seat down. Personally, I don't care. Even in a hurry, it doesn't take all that long to put the seat down. Our dog doesn't drink from the toilet, so we don't have a pressing need to have the lid down.

By: precocious

precocious — Thu, 27 May 2004 01:40:03 -0800

Falling in SUCKS.

By: Irontom

Irontom — Thu, 27 May 2004 02:53:10 -0800

Been there, done that. And, yes, it does suck mightily. Thus, one should be sure to check the damned thing before you sit down. I surely do before I plant my hindquarters.

~

I shouldn't care about this debate, but I do. What if I were to say "Pissing on the toilet seat SUCKS, thus it's the female duty to return it to the "up" position once she finishes her business? Why is it that I'm a rude bugger if I leave the toilet in a position that works for me, but you're just following the natural order of the universe for leaving in a position that works for you? *

* all instances of the word "you" in the previous paragraph are referring to the general female population, not precocious.

By: plinth

plinth — Thu, 27 May 2004 03:21:33 -0800

Lid down, seat down. Lid down also helps contain and slowly dissipate any residual odors. I had the seat down traunatized into me by one of mom's sorrority sisters who stormed into the living room after an 'event' with the fury of a Valkyrie and let me and my two brothers have it.

Later, it came down to this: standing while you pee is convenient if you're in a hurry, but honestly, what's the hurry most of the time? Besides, sitting down eliminates any surprises from the Nefarious Dried Semen Spray Attachment.

By: dash_slot-

dash_slot- — Thu, 27 May 2004 04:18:03 -0800

from the WHAT?

By: biffa

biffa — Thu, 27 May 2004 04:33:54 -0800

MEN! Express your solidarity with your repressed sisters by sitting down for all your visits.

Also, leave the seat up in pubs, clubs etc to deter lazy idiots from pssiing all over it and leaving it for the next man, who might just need a dump.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Thu, 27 May 2004 05:54:35 -0800

You've gotta be some kinda idiot to fall into a toilet.

That said, I always keep it down. Always. Two main reasons are: 1. Things can fall in there that don't belong in there, and you don't want to have to fish out. 2. jjg sums it up nicely -- when you're done with something, you close it. It looks tidy.

There are added benefits, as well. Lid up, seat down just encourages guys to try their aim. Which may or may not be good. Lid up, seat down lets the world see how clean or dirty the bowl is. Lid up, seat up is just asking for incompetent people to fall in. Just put everything down, and everyone has to exert the same effort. Seems fair to me.

Pubs have a completely different set of priorities and rules, as biffa points out.

By: fvw

fvw — Thu, 27 May 2004 07:28:42 -0800

Hmm, interesting. In europe (or at least the parts I am aware of), the toilet is in a separate room from the bath/shower.

It's more hygenic, you don't have to bathe/shower in someone elses stench and you don't sound silly in restaurants when asking for the "bathroom". It's a toilet goddammit, what did you want to do, soak in the tub a bit until your meal is served?

By: BlueTrain

BlueTrain — Thu, 27 May 2004 07:40:19 -0800

You've gotta be some kinda idiot to fall into a toilet.

Not really. You gotta remember, all men approach a toilet facing forward, and proceed to turn around when necessary. On the other hand, women always back in. And especially when women are in the comforts of their own homes, as long as they see water, they tend to assume that the seat is down, especially when they are in a rush. Remember, they (the women) left the seat down last time. Any time the seat is up, it's because a man took a leak. Women have absolutely no need to lift the seat up. Which is why their assumption that the seat is down is very valid.

By: Melinika

Melinika — Thu, 27 May 2004 08:19:57 -0800

brownpau, I don't see the problem. Toilet paper rolls from under. It looks neater and cats or a small child can't spool it out all over the floor that way. =)

Seat always down. Women always need it down, men sometimes need it down, and men don't need to lift it to pee if they've got good aim. Aesthetically it looks better that way too - friendlier. More inviting. Heh. A friendly toilet that won't dump you in when you're sleepy!

We're pretty casual about lid up/lid down around here but the "lid down" argument makes sense because:
1) Toilets are a yuck bomb. You flush it and the water particles fly six square feet through the air around it. (The things I learn from reading Dave Barry.) At least the lid should be down when you flush, open it afterwards if you feel like it.
2) If you have small kids or pets, they might play in the toilet water if you leave it open.
3) Less smell, less yuckiness to look at.

The only time we had to leave the lid open all the time was when we were toilet-training the cats. So "leaving an unfamiliar toilet the way you found it" is a good idea, since we did have a couple cat-freakouts when guests left the lid down.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Thu, 27 May 2004 08:26:20 -0800

plinth: Besides, sitting down eliminates any surprises from the Nefarious Dried Semen Spray Attachment.

dash_slot: from the WHAT?

You know, the thing that turns what is usually one downward-arcing stream that lands in the toilet into three randomly pointed streams that hit the wall, the toilet lid, and your feet. Usually experienced during the first pee in the morning after having sex the night before. (see, e.g., the scene in Me, Myself & Irene where Jim Carrey is pissing all over the place, and asks Rene Zellweger, "Why am I peeing like I was up all night having sex?")

By: bingo

bingo — Thu, 27 May 2004 08:55:18 -0800

It honestly amazes me that people of both genders are actually promoting the idea of men urinating while the seat is still down. A stream of urine coming from a man's body, especially at the beginning and at the end of the act, is not as tightly focused as a laser beam. In order to "aim" well enough to guarantee you won't hit the seat at all, you'd really have to be sitting down. Do none of you men shake or tap when you're done? Have none of you gone to pee a couple hours (or more) after ejaculation and found that "cleaning the pipes" involves just a bit of misdirected liquid, if only because your stream is party blocked when you start? Even setting all this aside, there is a phenomenon known as gravity that is going to lose a few drops of the most solid stream here and there, to land somewhere between the penis of origin and the center of the toilet...just as, if you stand directly under a tight stream of water flying through the air --say, from a firehose -- you are going to get a little wet. So will the seat. In fact, there is probably going to be a little bit of splash even if you position yourself over the bowl so that you are urinating straight down.

In other news:

Lid down, for the same reason you close a kitchen cabinet, a refrigerator, a washing machine, a closet, a dishwasher, a drawer, a medicine cabinet, a laundry dryer, a garage, a toy box, a freezer, a garbage can, or a book: because you're finished using it.

...this sort of comment really shows an interesting disconnect between the way different people think. As far as I'm concerned, every item on that list has a practical reason for being closed, and if that reason is not in play, then closing it is a waste of time. Especially books and toy boxes, which I often left open in my youth, with no regrets.

on preview: curses! pre-empted by the WHAT? ah well.

By: biffa

biffa — Thu, 27 May 2004 09:03:53 -0800

It honestly amazes me that people of both genders are actually promoting the idea of men urinating while the seat is still down.

I'm with you bingo, come the revolution, Melinika is first in line for the re-education camps, along with the filthy swine I used to share with who would dribble on the seat and then claim it wasn't his fault if the seat wouldn't stay up.

By: biffa

biffa — Thu, 27 May 2004 09:07:04 -0800

Also, toilet roll should clearly be set to overshoot not undershoot. This allows for far more control over how many sheets are pulled at one time.

By: vignettist

vignettist — Thu, 27 May 2004 09:09:03 -0800

Sadly, I have drowned not one, but three hairbrushes due to pre-caffeine jitters and an open lid.

Now it stays down.

Plus, this way we don't get any gross run-for-your-life-to-the-shower slobbery kisses from the dogs.

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Thu, 27 May 2004 10:09:43 -0800

You've gotta be some kinda idiot to fall into a toilet.

Not really. You gotta remember, all men approach a toilet facing forward, and proceed to turn around when necessary. On the other hand, women always back in.

The BIG question, do you turn the light on? But realley, do you need sight here? My toilet bowl is made of porcelin, my seat is not. Besides a highth difference with the seat up, you will feel a cold sensation as your rear approaches the porcelin bowl.

Lid down which also lets you see a "cleaner toilet."
In a house with men, the lid & seat up can hide more of it.

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Thu, 27 May 2004 10:13:16 -0800

Also the lid is a for safety if you have toddlers.

By: Melinika

Melinika — Thu, 27 May 2004 10:19:38 -0800

If you know your pee is going to "misdirect", why not sit?
And if you get pee drops on the seat, why not wipe it off?

Surely that's easier than complaining about the seat being down!

By: Melinika

Melinika — Thu, 27 May 2004 10:30:36 -0800

The difference in the size of the hole you're aiming for whether the seat is up or down isn't that big. It's just you're more likely to hit the toilet with the seat down instead of the floor or the toilet rim, and therefore (hopefully) feel more responsible about cleaning up your pee-mess. (Which you should feel anyway if you know you hit the rim or the floor.)

By: bonehead

bonehead — Thu, 27 May 2004 10:31:04 -0800

...toilet roll should clearly be set to overshoot not undershoot.

Clearly, you've never lived with children or other small mammals.

By: bingo

bingo — Thu, 27 May 2004 11:03:03 -0800

Melinka: If you know your pee is going to "misdirect", why not sit?...And if you get pee drops on the seat, why not wipe it off?...Surely that's easier than complaining about the seat being down!

...because, the easiest thing to do is lift the seat up, avoiding all those problems.

...The difference in the size of the hole you're aiming for whether the seat is up or down isn't that big. It's just you're more likely to hit the toilet with the seat down instead of the floor or the toilet rim, and therefore (hopefully) feel more responsible about cleaning up your pee-mess.

I'm sorry, but this is just plain wrong. The size is significantly different, and if you have the seat up, you can hit the inside of the rim, and just about anywhere in the inside of the bowl, without needing to clean up afterwards. (It is possible to do it wrong anyway, but this is where aim and experience really do come into play.)

Besides, I don't want to worry about "wiping it off." That's why the lid has a hinge. And I don't want other men's urine dribbled onto my toilet seat and then wiped off with a piece of toilet paper. I want their urine to not get on the toilet seat at all. In fact, in a perfect world, instead of lifting the toilet seat on its hinge, you would push a button and it would retract into the wall, where it would be bathed in antiseptic and then blow-dried in preparation for its next use.

I am not a particularly tidy housekeeper, but if I had a male guest who I thought was peeing without lifting the seat, I would have a talk with him.

By: heather

heather — Thu, 27 May 2004 11:27:52 -0800

lid down. we have a small bathroom with shelving above the toilet. i inadvertently drop quite a bit of my girly crap on a regular basis and having the lid down saves me from fishing stuff out (a toilet soaked make up brush is a sad, sad thing).

i'm also emotionally scarred from a cbc radio story that aired years ago about an escaped snake in an etobicoke highrise. i convinced myself that any aquatic visitor would respect a closed lid.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Thu, 27 May 2004 11:33:04 -0800

On the other hand, women always back in.

Are you kidding me? What on Earth for? Do they enjoy giving the Fates the middle finger? This gets filed in the "amazing things you learn on MeFi" nook in my brain.

I seem to remember a Mefi thread about this from a while back.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Thu, 27 May 2004 11:38:32 -0800

i inadvertently drop quite a bit of my girly crap on a regular basis ...

What do you mean, "inadvertently"? Isn't that exactly what the toilet is for? (Thank you! I'll be here all week! Enjoy the prime rib!)

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Thu, 27 May 2004 12:29:56 -0800

Ahh, I found it... it was a link on Everything2 entitled "I will remove the fucking toilet seat if you don't shut up."

[quote]
I have never once in my entire life been asked nicely to leave the toilet seat in some specific position. It seems as if it is some sort of rule that women cannot simply request this of someone, they have to break into a song-like rant, spitting obscenities and shaking their finger at you. I by no means wish to clump ALL women into this group. I am not leaving out the possibility that only women I associate with have this problem. So basically, when I refer to "women" in this little rant, take it with a grain of salt. You know who you are....those women...

Recently, while watching "Bill Cosby Himself" with my girlfriend, I noted that during a joke he was doing, he said something about leaving the toilet lid down as being a bad thing. My girlfriend explained, while glaring at me, that leaving the lid and the seat down is just as bad if not worse than leaving both of them up. This is apparently due to the fact that when one has to pee, they plop down on the lid, cannot tell that it is down and begin to pee on the lid.

I have been told the exact same reason for all of this from every girl who has screamed at me for it and it has got to be one of the stupidest admissions that I have ever heard in my entire life.

"We don't always look before we sit down, and sometimes at night we don't even turn on the light."

This is a deficiency. This admission, made almost with pride, says two things to me:

1. I make unwarranted assumptions.
2. I am militantly unaware of my environment.

So as a male, apparently I am expected to make up for this deficiency by making sure that the lid is always left in the correct position. In the interest of not falling into the toilet and/or urinating on myself, I always make sure to look before I sit down. I find the concept of "not looking" interesting. How exactly does one not see the condition of the toilet before sitting on it? The only solutions I have been able to come up with on my own (since females seem uninterested or unable to tell me) are these:

1. Women enter the bathroom with their eyes closed or while staring at the ceiling.
2. Women open the bathroom door and then proceed to back into the bathroom using their rear-end to locate the toilet.
3. Women only do bathroom business after daylight hours and are incapable of and/or unwilling to operate a light switch.
4. All women are very cleverly hiding the fact that they are born blind.
5. Toilets/toilet seats are diabolically engineered to be completely invisible to women.

One time, when I was about seven, my skinny little ass fell into the toilet because I had left the toilet seat and lid up. Having no girth to speak of I fell right in and dipped my bare hiney in the cold (yet thankfully clean) toilet water. This was not only embarrassing but uncomfortable as well. Since that day, I have never fallen into or even come close to falling into the toilet. Might I also remind everyone that men sit down, too. Personally in the comfort of my own home (where the toilet seat is relatively clean), I rather prefer sitting down due to the fact that it is plainly less taxing and requires no aiming or standing (not that aiming and standing are all that big a task, I am just lazy).

This rant isn't due to the fact that I am unwilling to help women with this admitted deficiency. Rather, I find it infuriating that because women are seemingly unable to check to make sure that the toilet seat is down, they take this anger out on me. It becomes my deficiency, I am less of a person because I cannot remember to put the seat down/lid up. I can understand the embarrassment of urinating on ones self and or falling into a toilet, but getting angry with someone else because you did something foolish is rather immature. In some Asiatic/Middle-eastern countries, they have unisex restrooms where they squat over holes in the ground and "wipe" by splashing water on themselves. I propose a compromise, you may keep complaining and we men shall suffer it for about 10 minutes before taking a hack saw and simply removing the source of debate. Problem solved, you must now "hover".

Source: Everything2, user: MoJo

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Thu, 27 May 2004 13:23:08 -0800

Civil_ for women it's a time deal, bladder needs releasing/no looking.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 27 May 2004 17:08:13 -0800

Lotta misogyny floating around.

By: bingo

bingo — Thu, 27 May 2004 17:30:36 -0800

good post, Civil_Disobedient.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Thu, 27 May 2004 17:52:59 -0800

Lotta double entendres floating around.

By: majcher

majcher — Fri, 28 May 2004 01:20:05 -0800

It's not mysogyny to expect women to not act like idiots. Quite the opposite, I'd think.

(Seat down, lid down, unless you bitch at me, then it's saran wrap over the bowl, and I pee in your sink.)

By: Irontom

Irontom — Fri, 28 May 2004 04:03:10 -0800

Languagehat - WTF? If anything, I'd say this whole debate reveals a great deal of cultural misandry.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 28 May 2004 07:12:22 -0800

You betcha, chief. If only those stupid women would act reasonable and grown up like us men, there would be no problem. Misogyny? What misogyny? Dumb bitches hate us, that's the problem. Yup.

...unless you bitch at me, then it's saran wrap over the bowl, and I pee in your sink.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Fri, 28 May 2004 07:33:50 -0800

If only those stupid women would act reasonable and grown up like us men, there would be no problem.

Yeah, and what are we going to do about all those damned black people?

By: Irontom

Irontom — Fri, 28 May 2004 07:48:04 -0800

Dunno if that qualifies as "a lot" comparatively speaking, Languagehat. Try this on for size:

If only those stupid men would act reasonable and grown up like us women, there would be no problem. Misandry? What misandry? Dumb, insensitive, selfish assholes hate us, that's the problem. Yup.

Because that's what I hear (loosely translated) from most women when it comes to this particular subject. Why is it misogyny to ask women to look at the toilet before they sit down, and not misandry to tell men they have to arrange the toilet in one particular fashion, as determined by the local alpha female?

By: onhazier

onhazier — Fri, 28 May 2004 07:59:35 -0800

It's simply a matter of no one wanting to be inconvenienced. Get a grip folks. Both men and women should look before they start to relieve themselves.

Sorry, but in my house, whoever was the last to use the toilet is the one who determines how it'll be set for the next person. Up, down, whatever.

If you're grossed out by the lid and seat being up, then clean your toilet more frequently.