Will I get in trouble for doing American freelance work in France?

November 4, 2007 6:56 PM

I am thinking of moving to France for a few months (less than 3 months). I want to continue to do remote freelance work for my for American clients. Will I get in trouble with France for doing this? Who should I talk to about this?
posted by hooray to travel & transportation (33 comments total)

More information is needed. What would your visa situation be for the move -- short-stay as a tourist or long-stay covered by a French employer? (Presumably the employer that you would be working for while not working on your US freelance stuff)
posted by pineapple at 7:10 PM on November 4, 2007

I would be staying on a tourist visa.
posted by hooray at 7:21 PM on November 4, 2007

There's no need to tell "France" anything. If you're just going in on a tourist visa, do your remote work for your US clients and nobody needs to worry over it.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:36 PM on November 4, 2007

If you're just going in on a tourist visa, do your remote work for your US clients and nobody needs to worry over it.

Except that it's almost certainly illegal.
posted by oaf at 7:48 PM on November 4, 2007

oaf: yes, it might break the rules, but where's the harm? France is happy to have a tourist spending money. The OP will not pay French income tax, but also receives none of the benefits that of being a French citizen. The USA (I assume) will continue to receive income tax from the OP and the OP won't be around to take advantage of whatever benefits that entails. So the USA is happy. The clients are happy and the OP is happy.

I wouldn't worry about this. If you decide you like it and want to stay a year or two, then you will run into problems. But I certainly wouldn't talk to anyone about it in any official capacity. There would be no benefit to doing so.
posted by kamelhoecker at 8:25 PM on November 4, 2007

The people you should talk to for an official answer are at the Embassy.

There's a fair amount of info on freelancing in France online, and most of it seems to imply that any authorizations you need are for setting up a business in France, for attracting French customers. I would kind of suspect you don't legally need to do this if you're working for existing customers in the United States, and you're just telecommuting (but I'm not a French embassy official).

What you may run into, and should look into, is owing taxes on money you received while working in France -- though, again, since you're an American citizen working with American clients, I'm not sure that even that would be an issue.
posted by occhiblu at 8:28 PM on November 4, 2007

Oops, sorry, meant to include a link: Freelancing in France
posted by occhiblu at 8:29 PM on November 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

If you are in France on a tourist visa, how is this different than a "working vacation", albeit a slightly long one?
posted by misterbrandt at 8:46 PM on November 4, 2007

It may work differently in France, but I spent a year and a half doing freelance work for an American company while living in Canada (I am a citizen and permanent resident here in Ontario). The way it worked between these two countries was that you had to pay tax to SOMEONE. As long as I was paying my taxes to my own government, I was fine. Had I been living in the US I may have had to file some kind of forms there proving that I had claimed my income to the Canadian government already, but that's it.

If you are on a tourist visa, as long as you continue to claim the money you make in the US on your American income tax, you should have nothing to worry about.

Keep in mind of course that this isn't professional advice, I'm just making some assumptions based on my own experience.
posted by DecemberRaine at 9:15 PM on November 4, 2007

I wouldn't worry about it. freelancing for a few months as a tourist? this is one of those little things that.. sheesh, i bet if you went to the French authorities in question they'd be like "et alors ?" why are you bothering us?
posted by citron at 9:26 PM on November 4, 2007

IANAL or a tax adviser but I once lived nearly 6 months in France, and I went to a French tax official with a question similar to yours: he told me, more or less, what citron said.
posted by londongeezer at 10:42 PM on November 4, 2007

Don't ask officially. If you ask and it goes on record someplace, then they catch you doing it anyway, I bet you'll get a more severe punishment.

Just do it. There are thousands of people worldwide who run Internet businesses and just live wherever they like on tourist visas.
posted by wackybrit at 1:06 AM on November 5, 2007

Oh, the only thing to watch out for is if a country demands proof that you have enough money to live there WITHOUT working for the period of time you plan to stay. If you want to cover up your working but don't have any savings to live on, it's a no go.
posted by wackybrit at 1:08 AM on November 5, 2007

If you are on a tourist visa, as long as you continue to claim the money you make in the US on your American income tax, you should have nothing to worry about.

This isn't legal in Canada. I don't see why it would be legal in France.

Following some of the advice in this thread might very well get you a lifetime ban from entering France.
posted by oaf at 1:18 AM on November 5, 2007

I wouldn't worry one tiny shit about it, but keep it discreet and declare the dough you make from your US clients in the US.

You won't get a lifetime ban from France if somebody catches you making a bit of dough you aren't paying local tax on. You'll get a bill, and if you settle that'll be the end of it.

/yet another ex-French resident
posted by Wolof at 3:54 AM on November 5, 2007

Oaf, no it would not.

There is literally nothing here that concerns the French authorities. The OP is a US citizen, earning money in US$, in the USA, from US clients. He has no French tax ID number and no VAT number because he doesn't live in France - he is not a resident, he's a tourist.

By your calculations, would American business people on a business trip to Paris (who are all issued tourist visas) pay taxes on the two weeks of income they earned while visiting?
posted by DarlingBri at 3:57 AM on November 5, 2007

There is literally nothing here that concerns the French authorities.

Except for the fact that, you know, he's earning the money in France.

If he does earn money, he would be staying in France other than on the terms of his visa, and anyway, you can't just move somewhere (i.e., become a resident, regardless of duration) on a tourist visa, whether you earn money or not.
posted by oaf at 4:16 AM on November 5, 2007

Going to a country for less than three months in not "moving" to said country, it is a vacation. Every person on this board has taken a phone call or sent a work email while on a vacation. This is no different. With a tourist visa you cannot obtain a residency or get a job within France. So therefore, its only an extended vacation.
posted by wile e at 5:00 AM on November 5, 2007

I am an American remotely working for my US consulting firm while on an extended stay (tourist visa) in Germany. This trip will be 3 months all the while working remotely full time.

You have absolutely no legal concerns. Enjoy your stay.
posted by Slenny at 5:56 AM on November 5, 2007

Going to a country for less than three months in not "moving" to said country

I am thinking of moving to France for a few months

You stand corrected.
posted by oaf at 6:17 AM on November 5, 2007

If he's just there for tourist purposes, it's not moving to the country, no matter what he says in his question.
posted by sid at 6:21 AM on November 5, 2007

You have absolutely no legal concerns.

This is just false.

You will probably not get caught, but staying in France other than as a tourist when you have entered on a tourist visa is simply illegal.
posted by oaf at 6:23 AM on November 5, 2007

It is so nice when I can put my time zone to good use.

Me: Hi there. I have a slightly stupid question. If I'm an American and I travel to France and get a tourist visa stamped in my passport, is there any problem if I do some work for my American clients while I'm there? Do I need to worry about French taxes or anything?

French Embassy in Dublin: You are staying for less than three months? On a tourism visa?

Me: Yes

French Embassy in Dublin: And your customer is in the United States?

Me: Yes, that's right.

French Embassy in Dublin: The visa is fine. There are no taxes.

Me: Thank you very much.

Hooray, feel free to wash, rinse and repeat this query with your local embassy consulate. I'm assuming the answer is the same.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:54 AM on November 5, 2007

One call to an embassy, especially when you're asking about visa and immigration issues, does not make an authoritative answer.
posted by oaf at 6:56 AM on November 5, 2007

You should call them again at different times of day and different days of the week to be more sure.
posted by oaf at 6:57 AM on November 5, 2007

Go ahead and do it - if you are there for less than three months you are not breaking any laws. If you stay for longer, you will need to register, but short of that, the fact that you are writing is not going to get you introuble. See all those tourists sitting in cafes writing in notebooks? the difference is that you are getting paid, but that is nobody's business but your own. Another tasse du the, monsieur!

I know lots of freelancers who base themselves in Europe. Many actually live there in a grey zone of leaving the EU to go for a bit to a non-EU country for a short trip before re-entering the EU (France is not as soft on this as many other EU countries are.) A passport with a confusingly large amount of stamps showing you have not remained in a single country for a long time is a benefit at border stations. Some countries are easier to remain in than others, but as freelance writers you are

1. not taking work away from locals
2. generally respected for being a writer of any sort
3. not leaving a paper trail of illegal work connections that make you a target
4. paying taxes in your own country, while paying VAT sales taxes in the country you are staying in anyway,
5. Eating a heck of a lot better.
posted by zaelic at 8:25 AM on November 5, 2007

it's OK, don't listen to oaf
posted by matteo at 8:33 AM on November 5, 2007

[metacommentary to METATALK please, thank you.]
posted by jessamyn at 9:26 AM on November 5, 2007

Fine. Don't listen to me. Risk getting special treatment whenever you enter France for the rest of your life.
posted by oaf at 9:33 AM on November 5, 2007

You are a tourist.
Even if technicaly you are working in France you are an american resident.
And don't worry about France not getting its cut because they are. It's called the TVA and you will pay it whether you want it or not.
posted by SageLeVoid at 9:54 AM on November 5, 2007

Been there; done that. The answers are…

1. No.

and

2. No one.
posted by Dick Paris at 5:05 PM on November 5, 2007

I've been doing this very thing off and on for the past 7 years. Do it and don't worry about it.
posted by hapax_legomenon at 9:48 PM on November 7, 2007

Echoing others that say not to worry about it. A good friend of mine did this in a similar foreign country for about a year and a half. This friend's employers didn't even know he/she was overseas (working remotely via internet and keeping their U.S. bank account). If this friend can fool their employers, you can certainly count on the French government not hearing peep about it as long as you don't tell them.
posted by dhammond at 10:44 PM on November 7, 2007