Roy G. Biv is not my friend
October 18, 2007 9:01 AM Subscribe
Yellow + blue = green. So, ________ + screaming green = light purple?
I few years ago I painted our kitchen a VERY bright yellow-based green appropriately called “Honeydew.” Atop this went a laborious stenciled script done in reflective metallic silver.
I’m tired of the green, but want to keep the stenciled design visible. Glazing over the walls will change the color without obscuring the script. I’ve used nearly a quart of glaze experimenting with additions of various amounts of red and blue, but my color combos aren’t coming out close to purple. I have tried first muting the neon green by glazing with white and a few shades of homemade grey before adding the reds or blues, but the results are either negligible or so cloudy the script nearly disappears. I’m running out of hidden spaces to test these combinations on, and I’m so frustrated I’m about to say screw the script and paint over the whole darn thing.
It seems this won’t be the one-step process I’d originally hoped. That said, I’m willing to put two coats of glaze on, max. Could anyone suggest an order of color application that would result in a blue-based purple?
I few years ago I painted our kitchen a VERY bright yellow-based green appropriately called “Honeydew.” Atop this went a laborious stenciled script done in reflective metallic silver.
I’m tired of the green, but want to keep the stenciled design visible. Glazing over the walls will change the color without obscuring the script. I’ve used nearly a quart of glaze experimenting with additions of various amounts of red and blue, but my color combos aren’t coming out close to purple. I have tried first muting the neon green by glazing with white and a few shades of homemade grey before adding the reds or blues, but the results are either negligible or so cloudy the script nearly disappears. I’m running out of hidden spaces to test these combinations on, and I’m so frustrated I’m about to say screw the script and paint over the whole darn thing.
It seems this won’t be the one-step process I’d originally hoped. That said, I’m willing to put two coats of glaze on, max. Could anyone suggest an order of color application that would result in a blue-based purple?
There is no green in purple; purple is cyan + magenta. There is no color you can glaze on top of a green that will make it light purple.
If you want to dull the green, a glaze of orange will gray it out; check out complementary colors.
posted by interrobang at 9:14 AM on October 18, 2007
If you want to dull the green, a glaze of orange will gray it out; check out complementary colors.
posted by interrobang at 9:14 AM on October 18, 2007
And I'm sorry about the stencil design. I mean, if you want to laboriously paint *around* the stencil design, that's the only other thing I could think of. Maybe other people will have better suggestions.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:14 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 9:14 AM on October 18, 2007
The only thing is, interrobang, when you mix complementary colors they generally turn to dark gray/brown mud. So wouldn't a purple added to brown mud make more brown mud?
posted by miss lynnster at 9:18 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 9:18 AM on October 18, 2007
The easiest thing of all would be to resign yourself to some Honeydew, and do something like this. It's just a quickie mock-up in PS but you get the idea. Paint from under the bottom of the stencil and continue down the wall.
posted by iconomy at 9:19 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by iconomy at 9:19 AM on October 18, 2007
Response by poster: interrobang - So would it make sense to assume that an orange glaze would grey it out the green enough so that a purple glaze applied on top of that would result in an actual purple?
posted by cdadog at 9:20 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by cdadog at 9:20 AM on October 18, 2007
A reddish purple, or burgundy is your only hope, but the result will be quite dark and gray or brownish. The yellow in the green is the complement of purple, and will fight it to the death. I would put a red (not orange) glaze or two over the green first, to neutralize it, then go with purple.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:27 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:27 AM on October 18, 2007
cdadog, no, having green there will always "kill" the purple--green is the "opposite" of purple. Think of a negative--purples appear green, and vice versa. Adding purple over the top of green will always dull down the purple, resulting in something like a brownish gray mud color. If you want pure purple, the best thing to do is paint over the whole thing altogether.
If you're interested in glazing--and as a watercolor user, I highly recommend it, because the colors are always more vibrant and pure when you layer--paint over the whole thing with white, then add a layer of magenta, let that dry, and put cyan on top of it. It's always a better color than a pre-mixed purple.
I guess what I'm saying is, take the green out of the picture, if purple is what you want. Green ruins purple, think of it that way. It's exactly the opposite of what you want, sorry to say.
posted by interrobang at 9:28 AM on October 18, 2007
If you're interested in glazing--and as a watercolor user, I highly recommend it, because the colors are always more vibrant and pure when you layer--paint over the whole thing with white, then add a layer of magenta, let that dry, and put cyan on top of it. It's always a better color than a pre-mixed purple.
I guess what I'm saying is, take the green out of the picture, if purple is what you want. Green ruins purple, think of it that way. It's exactly the opposite of what you want, sorry to say.
posted by interrobang at 9:28 AM on October 18, 2007
If you use an orange glaze, you're simply adding more yellow to fight the purple.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:29 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:29 AM on October 18, 2007
Green is not exactly the opposite of purple, interrobang. Yellow is the opposite. The blue in the green is compatible.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:31 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:31 AM on October 18, 2007
one way to salvage and tone down what you already have would be to give it a thin glaze of black which would give you an olive wall and the silver should still be visible. It's not purple, but it would mute your electric yellow without too much work.
posted by beckish at 9:36 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by beckish at 9:36 AM on October 18, 2007
Here's a simple (and random) example of what happens when you make negatives out of a couple of greens. The top is positive, and the bottom is negative.
Yes, yellow is "officially" the opposite of purple, but green comes out as everything from mauve to bluish-purple as a negative.
Anyway, we're talking about paint, here.
posted by interrobang at 9:38 AM on October 18, 2007
Yes, yellow is "officially" the opposite of purple, but green comes out as everything from mauve to bluish-purple as a negative.
Anyway, we're talking about paint, here.
posted by interrobang at 9:38 AM on October 18, 2007
And here's yellow (top) and a negative of the same color (bottom).
posted by interrobang at 9:41 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by interrobang at 9:41 AM on October 18, 2007
Green comps red, violet comps yellow,orange comps blue, it's the law of color.
posted by hortense at 9:41 AM on October 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by hortense at 9:41 AM on October 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
interrobang: You are using principles of additive colour to answer a question about subtractive colour. Putting any complimentary colour glaze over will not "gray out" anything; it'll just turn brown or black.
posted by Reggie Digest at 9:46 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by Reggie Digest at 9:46 AM on October 18, 2007
Anything that's transparent enough to show the stencil will show the yellow-green also. You can't obscure the yellow-green enough to make purple without also obscuring the stencil.
If it were a blue green, you might have a shot at a brownish purple. Since it is a yellow green, your choices are: a) aim for a compatible color, that would have a lot of yellow in it, or b) give up and just cover the stencil.
Let's talk about choice 'a'.
Assuming you like purple, you could try for a color scheme in which the wall color would work well with other purple decor placed on or near it. A warm beige or even just yellow would compliment purple nicely. Add a golden yellow glaze, maybe with a hint of orange to it (just a hint), then put some purple wall hangings up with it. Experiment with color combinations to see what I mean.
Here are some purple and beige items I found with a quick Google search:
1; 2; 3; 4; 5; 6
Note that any "beige" you achieve may be a bit browner than what's shown in these images; it will depend on the color you have to start with and the precise glaze & amount of glaze you use. You might wind up with a darker brown, in which case I'd recommend accessorizing with a lighter purple. Have fun!
posted by amtho at 9:47 AM on October 18, 2007
If it were a blue green, you might have a shot at a brownish purple. Since it is a yellow green, your choices are: a) aim for a compatible color, that would have a lot of yellow in it, or b) give up and just cover the stencil.
Let's talk about choice 'a'.
Assuming you like purple, you could try for a color scheme in which the wall color would work well with other purple decor placed on or near it. A warm beige or even just yellow would compliment purple nicely. Add a golden yellow glaze, maybe with a hint of orange to it (just a hint), then put some purple wall hangings up with it. Experiment with color combinations to see what I mean.
Here are some purple and beige items I found with a quick Google search:
1; 2; 3; 4; 5; 6
Note that any "beige" you achieve may be a bit browner than what's shown in these images; it will depend on the color you have to start with and the precise glaze & amount of glaze you use. You might wind up with a darker brown, in which case I'd recommend accessorizing with a lighter purple. Have fun!
posted by amtho at 9:47 AM on October 18, 2007
Putting any complimentary colour glaze over will not "gray out" anything; it'll just turn brown or black.
I addressed this. What I'm saying is, if I were faced with a bright yellow-green and wanted to neutralize it, I'd put a layer of orange over it, not something as assertive as red. That would at least dull it more to a gray than to a dark brown. My answer was just what the poster could do to neutralize that color, not make it purple, because making it purple is impossible.
posted by interrobang at 9:53 AM on October 18, 2007
I addressed this. What I'm saying is, if I were faced with a bright yellow-green and wanted to neutralize it, I'd put a layer of orange over it, not something as assertive as red. That would at least dull it more to a gray than to a dark brown. My answer was just what the poster could do to neutralize that color, not make it purple, because making it purple is impossible.
posted by interrobang at 9:53 AM on October 18, 2007
So you want to neutralize a yellow green, interrobang, and you don't want to use something as assertive as red. So you add red and yellow. Great.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:07 AM on October 18, 2007
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:07 AM on October 18, 2007
What interrobang is saying is right. Once you've mixed the colors, you can't separate them out again. Putting a layer of orange over the purple will dull it down - depending on the purity of the paint in question, it may also make it a really sickening brownish shade - but orange is different than red or yellow. It's a new thing. It is no longer red or yellow. Red over the purple will make it more fuchsia-y, more red/violet; yellow over the purple will dull it down and make it brownish.
When you're working with a prism or a color wheel, you're dealing with Platonic ideals of color, not color as it works in the real world. In the real world, paint is pigments is chemicals and fillers and there's no such thing as pure color. So, for example, while in the Platonic realm it is theoretically possible to mix ALL colors and get white (see also, Gandalf) if you mix every color of paint you can find at Home Depot together you will not, repeat not, get white.
I use a yellow/purple/orange/dark blue mix for smoggy evening city skies when I'm painting, incidentally. But to get to the original question, cdadog, I'm afraid you may be out of luck. You could probably take that green to a more teal with a lot of clear blue overlay or a darker green but changing it to purple? Not going to happen.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:00 PM on October 18, 2007
When you're working with a prism or a color wheel, you're dealing with Platonic ideals of color, not color as it works in the real world. In the real world, paint is pigments is chemicals and fillers and there's no such thing as pure color. So, for example, while in the Platonic realm it is theoretically possible to mix ALL colors and get white (see also, Gandalf) if you mix every color of paint you can find at Home Depot together you will not, repeat not, get white.
I use a yellow/purple/orange/dark blue mix for smoggy evening city skies when I'm painting, incidentally. But to get to the original question, cdadog, I'm afraid you may be out of luck. You could probably take that green to a more teal with a lot of clear blue overlay or a darker green but changing it to purple? Not going to happen.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:00 PM on October 18, 2007
What interrobang is saying is right.
So, for example, while in the Platonic realm it is theoretically possible to mix ALL colors and get white...
...orange is different than red or yellow. It's a new thing. It is no longer red or yellow.
Nothing personal, mygothlaundry, but you don't know what you're talking about. And what interrobang is saying is wrong. Check out subtractive vs. additive color mixing and get back to us. White is the result of adding colored lights (red, blue, green). Paints are subtractive--you start with white light--sunlight, for example--on white paper or canvas, and each pigment subtracts (absorbs) its complement. Red absorbs green wavelengths, yellow absorbs purple (violet) wavelengths. Together they absorb both. Orange is not "a new thing". It acts just like you'd expect a red/yellow combo to act. No, you can't "unmix" the paint, but you can use red and yellow cellophane with the same results, and “unmix” those. You do not want to add any color with yellow in it to neutralize green, precisely because yellow is a large part of the green you're trying to neutralize. And yellow paint absorbs purple light, which is the color cdadog wants the wall to reflect.
If you mix the three subtractive primaries (red/magenta, yellow, and blue/cyan) in the right proportion, you absorb "all" wavelengths, and get black. I’m not talking “Platonic Realm”, either. Here's an apple (21" x 23") that I painted as a color mixing demo in front of an art class. I used only red, yellow, blue, and white acrylic paint. (Think of the white as liquid paper--with watercolors you dilute the paint in a wash to get similar results without white). I made the black by mixing red, yellow, and blue.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:57 AM on October 19, 2007
So, for example, while in the Platonic realm it is theoretically possible to mix ALL colors and get white...
...orange is different than red or yellow. It's a new thing. It is no longer red or yellow.
Nothing personal, mygothlaundry, but you don't know what you're talking about. And what interrobang is saying is wrong. Check out subtractive vs. additive color mixing and get back to us. White is the result of adding colored lights (red, blue, green). Paints are subtractive--you start with white light--sunlight, for example--on white paper or canvas, and each pigment subtracts (absorbs) its complement. Red absorbs green wavelengths, yellow absorbs purple (violet) wavelengths. Together they absorb both. Orange is not "a new thing". It acts just like you'd expect a red/yellow combo to act. No, you can't "unmix" the paint, but you can use red and yellow cellophane with the same results, and “unmix” those. You do not want to add any color with yellow in it to neutralize green, precisely because yellow is a large part of the green you're trying to neutralize. And yellow paint absorbs purple light, which is the color cdadog wants the wall to reflect.
If you mix the three subtractive primaries (red/magenta, yellow, and blue/cyan) in the right proportion, you absorb "all" wavelengths, and get black. I’m not talking “Platonic Realm”, either. Here's an apple (21" x 23") that I painted as a color mixing demo in front of an art class. I used only red, yellow, blue, and white acrylic paint. (Think of the white as liquid paper--with watercolors you dilute the paint in a wash to get similar results without white). I made the black by mixing red, yellow, and blue.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:57 AM on October 19, 2007
Well, there's your problem. The poster isn't asking about mixing colors, he's asking about glazing. It's entirely different.
posted by interrobang at 1:23 AM on October 19, 2007
posted by interrobang at 1:23 AM on October 19, 2007
The background of this portrait was done by putting a layer of orange on top of a layer of green, not mixing the two together on the palette and carefully consulting a color wheel for an art class. As you can see, it's not something you'd want to progress to purple from. I stand by my first statement--if you want purple, start over and remove the green altogether.
posted by interrobang at 1:30 AM on October 19, 2007
posted by interrobang at 1:30 AM on October 19, 2007
Glazing isn't entirely different. It's the same.
It's subtractive color mixing, just like the cellophane I mentioned.
But cdadog's best hope is for a dark purple using a red or burgundy glaze, or repainting.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:56 AM on October 19, 2007
It's subtractive color mixing, just like the cellophane I mentioned.
But cdadog's best hope is for a dark purple using a red or burgundy glaze, or repainting.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:56 AM on October 19, 2007
I don't know what the opacity of the glaze is, but I tried some experiments in photoshop and found that, at 50%, I could get a rather nice cornflower sort of blue/purple with one layer/"coat" of blue (to tamp down the yellow), and then a layer of orchid over a base of bright green. Obviously, photoshop isn't a real wall and real paint (and unlike others here, I have absolutely no scientific/artistic/theoretical grounding), but if you have any tiny corner left to try, you might give iit a shot before throwing in the towel. (btw, in my experiment, the script remained visible, in a paler lavender/orchid shade)
posted by taz at 5:25 AM on October 19, 2007
posted by taz at 5:25 AM on October 19, 2007
I'm going with people who say that it's just hard to get purple from green. Unless you have some wonderful miracle of luck where the stars align in a way that suspends the science of color for a moment. Which might happen, I'm not gonna say it won't. Color me a dreamer. I'm not one for saying things are impossible.
But in lieu of that event, the color theory they teach in art school is this: purple doesn't contain common color elements with green; green's opposite (complimentary color*) is red; purple's opposite is yellow; mixing complimentary colors creates neutral grayish/brownish tertiary colors; warm colors will cancel out and neutralize cool colors (and vice versa); green consists of yellow and blue; and orange will always contain the basic elements of red (or magenta) and yellow by very nature since those are the only ingredients it has.
*Also note on that website that it says if you bring two complimentary colors together you'll often see them vibrate. That's because they don't have common elements so they don't combine well. They're just a bit antisocial with eachother that way.
posted by miss lynnster at 10:11 AM on October 19, 2007
But in lieu of that event, the color theory they teach in art school is this: purple doesn't contain common color elements with green; green's opposite (complimentary color*) is red; purple's opposite is yellow; mixing complimentary colors creates neutral grayish/brownish tertiary colors; warm colors will cancel out and neutralize cool colors (and vice versa); green consists of yellow and blue; and orange will always contain the basic elements of red (or magenta) and yellow by very nature since those are the only ingredients it has.
*Also note on that website that it says if you bring two complimentary colors together you'll often see them vibrate. That's because they don't have common elements so they don't combine well. They're just a bit antisocial with eachother that way.
posted by miss lynnster at 10:11 AM on October 19, 2007
the color theory they teach in art school is this: purple doesn't contain common color elements with green
What art school did you go to, miss lynnster? Green is yellow and blue. Purple is red and blue. The blue component of purple that cdadog wants is already in the green wall.
As for vibrating colors, the eye focuses differently for different frequencies--low frequencies refract less than high frequencies, so you're actually constantly refocusing when you look at colors that maximize the frequency difference. There is also an after-image component--if you stare at a color and look away, you'll see the complement, so side-by-side complements reinforce each other.
mixing complimentary colors creates neutral grayish/brownish tertiary colors
Tertiary color is a mixture of a primary and a secondary. Mixing complements is like mixing an acid with a base--you can get a range from slightly acid to slightly basic to totally neutral. You can get a very deep black by mixing complements in the right proportion. Brown is low-lightness orange. If your result is too brown, add more blue to get black.
(Wikipedia made a mistake on the middle chart in that Tertiary link. Yellow + Red = Orange is secondary, not tertiary.)
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:57 AM on October 19, 2007
What art school did you go to, miss lynnster? Green is yellow and blue. Purple is red and blue. The blue component of purple that cdadog wants is already in the green wall.
As for vibrating colors, the eye focuses differently for different frequencies--low frequencies refract less than high frequencies, so you're actually constantly refocusing when you look at colors that maximize the frequency difference. There is also an after-image component--if you stare at a color and look away, you'll see the complement, so side-by-side complements reinforce each other.
mixing complimentary colors creates neutral grayish/brownish tertiary colors
Tertiary color is a mixture of a primary and a secondary. Mixing complements is like mixing an acid with a base--you can get a range from slightly acid to slightly basic to totally neutral. You can get a very deep black by mixing complements in the right proportion. Brown is low-lightness orange. If your result is too brown, add more blue to get black.
(Wikipedia made a mistake on the middle chart in that Tertiary link. Yellow + Red = Orange is secondary, not tertiary.)
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:57 AM on October 19, 2007
And it's complementary, with an "e" miss lynnster.
But you have a beautiful smile.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:04 PM on October 19, 2007
But you have a beautiful smile.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:04 PM on October 19, 2007
Well, I went here. And I know it has an e. But whatever. Honestly, I have been so high on Percoset for most of the week (emergency dental surgery) that I'm not going to beat myself up for not saying or typing things perfectly. I still agree with the people who say green isn't an element of purple due to the yellow.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:02 AM on October 20, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 12:02 AM on October 20, 2007
And by the way, that's not me. Never has been, never will be. But Mefites keep complImenting me on her smile for some reason.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:03 AM on October 20, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 12:03 AM on October 20, 2007
I still agree with the people who say green isn't an element of purple due to the yellow.
So, miss lynnster, if you gave birth to two children by different fathers, would you say they weren't related?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:18 AM on October 20, 2007
So, miss lynnster, if you gave birth to two children by different fathers, would you say they weren't related?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:18 AM on October 20, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
In my experience, you need to base coat the whole thing white. Probably two coats to completely nix the green. And then paint your purple.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:12 AM on October 18, 2007