Am I a genius only when asleep?

October 9, 2007 7:09 PM

On occasion, I have dreams in which I write a story within a dream, and by the end I complete a bona fide epic novel, which, to my dream mind is the best book ever written (naturally, 5 minutes after awakening every detail of the “book” vanishes from my mind). Have any famous (or not so famous) writers ever written or talked about this phenomenon, of writing books within dreams? And does this mean that I have a novel or two in me waiting to get out, or is it something more mundane?

These dreams have the usual morphing of character—sometimes I’m “me” in 1st person, or the dream will switch to 3rd person, but when writing in the dreams, I’m often literally sitting in front of a computer, typing away at keyboard for subjective hours and days on end. And the words flow like there’s no tomorrow. I’ve hacked away at writing, on and off, my whole life and have had some success with it in some ways, but I’ve never had anything published.

posted by zardoz to writing & language (39 comments total)

In Xanadu did Kubla Kahn ...
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:11 PM on October 9, 2007

(or his gentile friend Kubla Khan ...)
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:12 PM on October 9, 2007

That sounds so fun! I know Neil Gaiman's written some about dreaming stories but as you can imagine it's kind of difficult to search for anything regarding dreams on his website.
posted by sugarfish at 7:14 PM on October 9, 2007

Oh, and as far as I can remember Gaiman doesn't recommend stories that come from dreams.
posted by sugarfish at 7:15 PM on October 9, 2007

keep a notebook by your bed and write down everything you remember immediately when you wake up.

also, i find writing very early in the morning or late at night is most productive--whenever you are closest to your natural dreaming time.

i have had dreams like that, too, by the way. although usually i'm already working on a project.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:22 PM on October 9, 2007

Mary Shelley said that the idea of Frankenstein came to her in a dream. “My imagination, unbidden, possessed and guided me, gifting the successive images that arose in my mind with a vividness far beyond the usual bounds of reverie.."

Do you keep a journal by your bed? I've heard that writing immediately on waking may help you remember your dreams.
posted by saffry at 7:23 PM on October 9, 2007

I can't remember who it was (my English teacher would kill me!) but a very famous poet said that a massive poem came to him in a dream. I think it was Wordsworth, and the poem was Tintern Abbey. I could be way off on both facts.
posted by DMan at 7:32 PM on October 9, 2007

I dream movies... and complex action/adventure/mystery ones too. I forget them almost as soon as I wake up - but I'm left with weird fragments of things that don't make sense.

Then again, the plots I dream - though they make perfect sense at the time - are pretty impractical in practice.

For instance, why on earth would a passenger aircraft suddenly make it's passengers fly these little mini planes to rescue a box that is floating and could contain a "baddie"??

Maybe these dreams of yours seem a whole lot better when you're engrossed in them than they would be when you're fully concious.
posted by jonathanstrange at 7:40 PM on October 9, 2007

I have only anecdote to offer, but I often write in my dreams. Sometimes, it even seems as though I am writing the very dream I am dreaming. Other times, it takes different forms. Once, I dreamed that my day job was translating the works of Proust into "Dog", the language that dogs read. Just the other day, I dreamed that I wrote a recipe for kalamata olive ice cream, which I then sold to a "Very Famous Person" for seventeen dollars.

I write for a living, but I write code (which I also dream about). I'm glad you asked this question, because someday I hope to write (not-code) for a living, and I'll be interested in the answers.

Also, not to do with writing, but with media and dreaming, you may enjoy one of my very favorite short stories: In Dreams Begin Responsibilities.

On preview, I think jonathanstrange would like that story, too.
posted by trip and a half at 7:48 PM on October 9, 2007

Jorge Luis Borges wrote about stuff just like this. Check out the short story collection Labyrinths.
posted by ludwig_van at 7:53 PM on October 9, 2007

I've found that during dreams things are often labeled as "amazing", "beautiful", "hilarious" or "brilliant" but lack any actual details. The dreaming mind says, "That thing over there, don't look too closely, is hilarious!" and we say, "ha, ha! hilarious!" Sadly, there is nothing actually hilarious — at least nothing you can take out of your dream and share with your conscious self or anyone else.

Yes, you can force your mind to specify details, but it's just making it up as you go along.

That's not to say you can't get ideas from dreams, but it's not a place to go to mine whole, complete, perfectly awesome ideas.
posted by kamelhoecker at 8:13 PM on October 9, 2007 [1 favorite]

I write music, and I can generally hear how to play a song when I hear it for the first time. I've dreamt songs (including once the "lost Jimi Hendrix song") where, at the time, I could tell you what the chord changes were. Of course I forgot them as soon as I woke up.

But I HIGHLY recommend keeping a journal and pen by your bed. I had a DOOZY of a dream last week, a nightmare, in fact, that rocked my world and woke me up at 6am. No WAY I was going to get back to sleep, and the imagery was SO rich that I wanted to write it all down as quickly as possible. EVERYTHING means something in dreams, so, as other people have suggested, write immediately after you wake up from a dream, and note absolutely EVERYTHING that you remember, as you are remembering it. If you were wearing turquoise shoes, WRITE IT DOWN. It's ALL significant.

I would suggest that all of our internal lives are filled with the stuff of novels - actually getting them into a presentable shape is a different matter, however. It's quite possible that dreams can contribute to the inspiration you will need to do the work to write a novel. Do yourself and your future audience a favor and get to work!
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:16 PM on October 9, 2007

kamelhoecker raises an interesting point - it's not so much WHAT you dream as HOW you feel about it. I've recounted dreams to people that had a tremendous effect on me, but it's not obvious to the listener what I'm feeling as I'm describing it. Similarly, when I hear other people's dreams, I'm always sure to ask how they felt about what they were dreaming - sometimes the same thing can effect you in different ways. I've had good flying dreams and scary flying dreams... I'd say the intensity of the emotion is key, and I've found that that CAN indeed inspire creativity during the waking life (sorry, couldn't resist).
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:20 PM on October 9, 2007

I can't remember who it was (my English teacher would kill me!) but a very famous poet said that a massive poem came to him in a dream. I think it was Wordsworth, and the poem was Tintern Abbey. I could be way off on both facts.

Just to connect the dots here for those of you playing along at home: the poem you're probably thinking of is Coleridge's "Kubla Khan", as quoted by JimN2TAW in the very first comment.
posted by Johnny Assay at 8:21 PM on October 9, 2007

Johnny Assay, you are exactly right.

Don't know where I got that from :P

Apologies for the repeat.
posted by DMan at 8:24 PM on October 9, 2007

There's a (possibly apocryphal) story about some writer who, in a dream, wrote a poem which, in the dream, everyone proclaimed as being amazingly profound, one of the secrets of life. He woke, and anxious that he not lose it, quickly jotted it down. Then, satisfied, he went back to sleep.

The next morning, he took a look at what he'd written. It was this:

Hogamous Higamous,
Men are polygamous.
Higamous Hogamous,
Women monogamous.

I have dreams all the time where I create something profound, but when I wake and examine it, it doesn't turn out to make any sense at all.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 8:36 PM on October 9, 2007 [2 favorites]

I'm a writer, of sorts, and spend a lot of time and energy concocting stories and concepts for scripts and whatnot. On occasion, in a dream, I'll come up with what seems to be a dazzlingly good idea for a a story or film or whatever. I don't keep a notebook by the bed, but I do try to relay them to my honey as soon as I wake up. Sometimes they, um, lack coherence. On a couple of occasions, though, they've been pretty cool...or at least the acorn of a cool idea.

So, yeah, you should at least give the dream-ideas the benefit of thinking about them for a bit upon waking. They might spark something.

And geez, if your subconscious is going to all that effort, why not at least *try* to write something! It doesn't actually matter if what you write is (objectively) good or total crap...either way, the act of sitting down and writing is fun/infuriating/desperately difficult/intensely rewarding... and how many aspects of your life are all those things?
posted by Ziggurat at 9:04 PM on October 9, 2007

Nthing the dream journal idea. Also, during the time you're returning to consciousness, you should try to remember as much as possible. Try to wake up slowly. A tape recorder (or mp3 recorder or dictaphone or whatever) next to your bed is even better because you can start it recording before you even open your eyes or get out of bed.

Sometimes it's not remembering, per se, but a kind of transferral of dream ideas into waking ideas. Sometimes dream ideas make perfect sense when you're asleep, but you can't even describe them when you are awake. You can just try to record what you can. Often some seemingly insignificant detail will turn out to be incredibly significant months or years later when you read the journal.

I have dreamed melodies and pieces of music before. While in the dream, they usually seem pretty cool, out of the dream maybe not. Some things I've dreamed turned out profound, others really stupid.

I had a music composition teacher once who said that in his dreams he often had writing contests with great masters, like Beethoven and Wagner. But I don't think that he himself has ever written stuff that great.

Great ideas can come from dreams, but whether or not they can "transfer" to waking life will determine their value.

Also -- having things published doesn't mean anything. There are lots of great writers who don't publish, and lots more shit writers who do.
posted by strangeguitars at 9:13 PM on October 9, 2007

Oh, and the "words flow like there's no tomorrow" idea: that's really a dream! Most writers will tell you that that doesn't happen very often. Don't let any lack of flow keep you from writing. Writing is hard work!
posted by strangeguitars at 9:16 PM on October 9, 2007

I had a dream once in which I wrote a best-selling novel. Upon waking I was exceedingly disappointed to realize that fame and fortune were no longer mine, but then I quickly realized that I could earn these rewards by writing the book in my waking life. It was only then that I examined the plot of my amazing story: a chocolate malt and a mint-flavored tic tac (both anthropomorphic) fall in love, and their child is the perfect flavor combination. World peace ensues. In my dream, this story resonated with every person who read it, and lives were changed by its insight and poignancy.

I'm going to join the chorus saying you should keep a dream journal by your bed, so you can record these ideas before they slip from your mind. Just don't expect too much from them.
posted by vytae at 9:50 PM on October 9, 2007

The only books I can think of that are supposed to have actually come from dreams are the aptly titled DREAMS by Jim Shaw, and Night as Day, Day as Night by Michel Leiris. Neither one is a proper novel in any sense-- they're both little collections of episodes. Which probably says something about the nature of dream narration.

Also, it's worth noting that the surrealists placed a great deal of importance on dreams, and dream logic. And though I don't believe that there were any actual surrealist novels produced as dream transcriptions (the surrealists had a very problematic relationship with the novel) there are a few books by people associated with the movement that do have a distinctly dreamlike quality. Check out Hebdomoros if you want to read some of this stuff.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 10:06 PM on October 9, 2007

"Am I a genius only when asleep?" That assumes you're a genius period.

"...by the end I complete a bona fide epic novel, which, to my dream mind is the best book ever written". I have very vivid dreams. When I was a kid, I kept dreaming that I was flying in our front yard. It was very mundane--I would work at it in the afternoon, doing flying drills and practicing (I’m often literally sitting in front of a computer, typing away at keyboard for subjective hours and days on end)--and I convinced myself that I actually could fly. Until I went into the front yard when awake and tried to do it. Not to mention, even if you get the idea, the novel is about the words/sentences/etc., not just the "idea."

That said, if you want to write, write. You're not going to get a magical pipeline to a bona fide epic novel: unfortunately, you'll actually have to write it.
posted by sfkiddo at 10:25 PM on October 9, 2007

Robert Louis Stevenson said that the plot of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde came to him in a dream.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:25 PM on October 9, 2007

Oh, and do not mistake "plot" or "idea" for "novel."
posted by sfkiddo at 10:32 PM on October 9, 2007

What Pater said. Robert Louis Stevenson. See about halfway down the page.
posted by philad at 10:32 PM on October 9, 2007

Not as much of a writer, but arguably a genius, Kekulé allegedly came up with the structure of benzene in a dream.
posted by kepano at 10:43 PM on October 9, 2007

Which reminds me, Elias Howe apparently invented the sewing machine based on a dream.
posted by trip and a half at 11:14 PM on October 9, 2007

Hogamous Higamous,
Men are polygamous.
Higamous Hogamous,
Women monogamous.

This was William James. The words came to him after inhaling nitrous oxide.
posted by Wolof at 11:50 PM on October 9, 2007

I've had dreams in which I've written and performed amazing songs, but when i wake up they disintegrate in my brain quite quickly.
posted by robotot at 11:51 PM on October 9, 2007

Great replies, everyone. This thread has been interesting. And just to reiterate, these dreams are full, complete novels, not just an idea or an outline. That's the weird thing--I'm sitting at a computer (typewriter?) and typing out the story, and I have the opposite of writer's block--everything zings. Obviously, it's a pleasant and profound dream to have.

I've always read about writing dreams down, maybe I should get into that habit. Thanks again!
posted by zardoz at 12:57 AM on October 10, 2007

Dreams don't mean anything in particular, not like an essay means something. You can read your dreams like you read tarot cards: the meaning is all in your reflection and interpretation, not in the cards or the dream images.
posted by pracowity at 3:06 AM on October 10, 2007

I have heard several times the story of a famous French writer (maybe a Surrealist) who claimed to have written all the ideas of his books by falling asleep with an arm up in in the air; when falling asleep, his arm would fall and wake him up and he immediately wrote the fragments he had been dreaming.
Never tried it myself.
posted by bru at 5:01 AM on October 10, 2007

Often just as I'm awakening I'll have the sense of overhearing or participating in really insightful conversations, the subject/content which I can never remember enough to write down. And in dreams I've publicly improvised songs that, sadly, will never find their way into garageband or itunes. The real kicker is that I once figured out how to upload a snake to my homepage using php, and a bunch of people were bitten, but Google came a-calling.
posted by troybob at 6:19 AM on October 10, 2007

I know exactly what you're talking about. If I read substantially right before sleep there's a 40% chance that I'll dream about continuing to write the book and as soon I get up I'll keep repeating the last few sentences. Wish I could be that prolific in real life.
posted by GilloD at 7:08 AM on October 10, 2007

I've done this a lot. When I was dream journaling, I realized that, although there were some neat emotional elements there, it wasn't anything but a spark.

The Mary Shelley Frankenstein in a dream is oft quoted, but if you read into it, it's simply something like, after having a stillbirth infant, she had a dream that she put the corpse above the fire and was able to warm it and bring it back to life, but when she did, she realized it was a horrible mistake.

Yes, you can see the emotional core of Frankenstein there, but that's hardly the complete novel, eh? And it was obviously her life experience being filtered in a new way for her to cope with, rather than something springing magically full formed like Athena from her skull.

So dream journal and capture it, but keep in mind that these dreams are likely more a manifestation of your desire to create and complete than the kernel of a great novel. If you're dreaming about Kubla Khan, rather than someone writing a novel, then it's time to sit down at the quill/selectric/word processor.
posted by Gucky at 9:23 AM on October 10, 2007

Similar to fingers of fire, I occasionally dream songs, orchestrated and almost in their entirety, which if I get to an instrument or sequencer quickly enough after waking I can put together. I think I've written maybe three or four songs this way. However, you may notice few if any hit singles by "blapst" topping the charts.

I am a writer by profession, and while dreams have occasionally provided a decent scenario, a general premise, or a decent line of dialog, I've never dreamt a story fully realized the way I have with music.

That said, a lot of my best ideas tend to happen within an hour of waking, when I am still half-dazed.
posted by blapst at 9:59 AM on October 10, 2007

If you wish to hear an interesting recounting of Robert Louis Stevenson and his dreams, check out Who Am I? on Radio Lab. It starts about at about 35:00.

Stevenson wrote of seeing little people in his dreams that he used to create a story. The result is not particularly good, but the program about it is great!
posted by the biscuit man at 10:13 AM on October 10, 2007

I occasionally compose in my dreams. Inevitably, I wake up going OH SHIT THIS IS AMAZING I MUST BE A GENIUS IF I WROTE THIS and I scribble the music down, and then in the morning when I read it I discover that the world agreed with me: the song was famous and acclaimed forty years ago.

Paul McCartney, however, had a much nicer surprise one morning.
posted by booksandlibretti at 11:37 AM on October 10, 2007

booksandlibretti: I have a similar feeling often, when I hear a new song on the radio (for the first time, I swear) that I'm sure I was humming to myself just last week... I really wish those artists would quit stealing melodies from my head!
posted by Chris4d at 3:17 PM on October 12, 2007