I haven't gotten a phone bill for 3 years, and now they're shutting off my phone!

May 17, 2004 12:40 PM

My phone company has not sent me an invoice for almost three years. Now they are shutting my phone off, and I don't think it is fair. What should I do? (more details inside)

Verizon stopped sending me my phone bill. I called them every month from 01/01 through 10/01, and the conversation went like this each time:

Me: I am not getting my phone bill sent to my home address.
Verizon Customer Service: What is your address?
Me: my address
VCS: That's the address we have in our system.
Me: Yes but I'm not receiving my phone bill.
VCS: Please hold
holding
VCS: You should receive your bill next month.

Needless to say, I never received it. In 03/02, I emailed the customer service address on their web site regarding the matter and received this response:

Thank you for contacting the Verizon eCenter.

It appears that your inquiry has been addressed since your original email was sent.

If your request has been resolved, please disregard this message. If you require further assistance with your account, please feel free to respond to this email and we will be happy to assist you.

Thank you for using Verizon. We appreciate your business.

At this point I gave up and decided I wouldn't pay my bill until they sent me an invoice. Fast forward to last week (May 2004) when I got a call from Verizon Collections where they tell me I owe them $1600 and they are going to shut my phone off today. One call received 2 and a half years after I stopped paying my bill. I told the collections agent that I had not received any invoice for over two years.

VCS: What is your address?
Me: my address
VCS: That's the address we have in our system.
Me: I KNOW, but something is wrong with your system, because I have not received any mail from you in over 2 years.
VCS: Well, something is wrong with your mail carrier, because we've been sending it out.
Me: So you're suggesting that the United States Postal Service has been witholding my Verizon bill for over two years, while I've been getting all my other mail as expected?
VCS: Call your post office.

One other strange point is that the agent said the last payment was received in 10/03, which I definitely did not send. My question is, what do I do now? I don't want a bad credit report, and I'm happy to pay for services rendered, but I have a real problem with the phone company's attitude and screwed up sense of account management. A friend suggested I call and explain the situation to a manager. If that doesn't get anywhere, I can say, please cancel my service, and I'll pay the balance in full when I receive an invoice in the mail.

Any advice and similar experiences would be really helpful. Thanks.

posted by tlong to work & money (32 comments total)

Get some friends to be your "news camera crew," and take a trip to Verizon headquarters.

Have you called your post office? See what they have to say, then call Verizon again and try to get them to see your side. Your friend's idea sounds good to me.
posted by punishinglemur at 12:48 PM on May 17, 2004

I would definitely try to work things out amicably with a Verizon supervisor. If you're polite and willing to pay what you owe, they can often really help you out. However, there is some possible bad news. I don't know if you've seen a copy of your credit report in the last few years, but most companies report you for every 30, 60, and 90 days you are late on a payment.
posted by gokart4xmas at 12:56 PM on May 17, 2004

Also, many companies have it in their terms and conditions that sending you a bill is purely a courtesy and that you are still responsible for paying what you owe every month regardless of whether or not you get a bill.
posted by gokart4xmas at 12:58 PM on May 17, 2004

Good luck getting a hold of a manager.

The only remotely similar experience I can share is that sometimes, probably once every four months, I don't get the bill from my health insurance providers. I just send a check to their payment address with a letter.

I'm guessing that sending a check to their payment address with a letter was what you probably should have been doing all along. That way you would have been mitigating your damages. Yeah, Verizon were a bunch of tools for never managing to fix your address, but you had a responsibility to pay your bill whether they sent you a bill or not.
posted by jennyb at 1:01 PM on May 17, 2004

I'd wonder why, if they haven't received a payment from you in so long (since October, according to them), has it taken them so long to follow up with you? Usually "we haven't received your payment" letters are sent sometime in the moth following.

So, my questions are: Why did it take them so long to notice you weren't paying, and what made them notice?

On preview, gokart has a point, which makes me ask another question -- is it possible you signed up for e-notification and declined paper invoices? And that it's the e-notifcation that's messed up, not the snail-mail?
posted by o2b at 1:02 PM on May 17, 2004

Similar to punishing's suggestion, call up and say you're calling for possible inclusion in a National Public Radio broadcast.

A producer for NPR's This American Life had a similar problem (9 months of difficulty with a phone bill), and when they called up saying they were going to be recording and broadcasting this, they got their problem solved immediately. It's an excellent piece, and seemed to work well. Have a listen.

Also, try the Better Business Bureau, your local paper or news station's "Consumer Advocate," the state attorney's office, or one of Nader's consumer advocacy groups.
posted by gramcracker at 1:06 PM on May 17, 2004

Are they sticking you for late charges? If so you probably can get out of that. But so long as you were using the service you would need to pay.
posted by stbalbach at 1:11 PM on May 17, 2004

I find it hard to believe that no one at Verizon offered to fax you a copy of your monthly statement as an alternative.
posted by naxosaxur at 1:19 PM on May 17, 2004

I'd try to get this bumped up to level-3 customer support or whatever they call it. Front-line customer-service reps, in my experience, often do not think that their company is capable of making mistakes.

If that doesn't work, perhaps you should tell them "oh, I mailed out my payments--are you saying you never received them?" See how they like it.
posted by adamrice at 1:21 PM on May 17, 2004

What made you go for three years without *attempting* to pay your phone bill?
posted by mrbill at 1:24 PM on May 17, 2004

I had a similar situation, and after several frustrating months of not recieving several bills, I finally found out that my mailbox did not have my name written inside it (I live in an apartment). So the post office said they didn't deliver the mail if the person's name was not written inside. The weird thing was that I did recieve a lot mail with my name on it, just not the important pieces. I wrote my name on a piece of paper and shoved it in the mailbox, and no more problems.
posted by maceo at 1:33 PM on May 17, 2004

What's odd is that they kept it on for so long. I regularly don't pay my phone bill until they shut it off after 3 months.
posted by Stan Chin at 1:35 PM on May 17, 2004

I had the same problem with TMobile and suspected it might have been because the address on my checks did not match the address to which I wanted the bill sent (I claim 2 residences). Once I switched to online payments, they finally changed their record... so they can now send me paper bills I no longer need.
posted by Sangre Azul at 1:43 PM on May 17, 2004

I had a similar problem with my student loan. I never got a bill and called my school, the gov't aid department, and my bank multiple times. They all politely said "okay, thanks. we'll get that out to you" and of course it never came until 3.5 years later when I got a registered letter stating they wanted the sixteen thousand dollars on monday or they were going to pass it along to a collection agency. Needless to say it went to a collection agency which was an unbelievable hell to deal with.

I was paying them $500 a month for a while (which is more than my rent) when one day they decided it still wasn't enough. I got very tired of their harassing me and finally I said fuck it and took on some work I otherwise would never have done and paid off the remainder immediately. My credit report is back to top notch now but it was a nightmare for a while.

In the end their treatment of me was so absurd that it cause me to send the nastiest letter I've ever sent (or read) in my life.

Now, whenever I am in a similar situation, I record the telephone calls I make and keep copies of every letter I send out (the govt didn't believe that I'd attempted to get the account in order multiple times previous to their registered letter). i suggest you do likewise.
posted by dobbs at 1:45 PM on May 17, 2004

Dobbs' point is quite valid. Whether or not you think it's fair that they're shutting off your phone, you need to think long and hard about how much your need to prove that you're right overwhelms the facts that

1. you already used the service that they were billing you for, and were aware that it costs money
2. They can sic the collection agency on you, while you can't really do much in retaliation, at least not if you'd like to keep your phone and your credit rating.

My advice? Call the state attorney general's office and state your case to at least get Verizon off your back for now. You'll probably talk to a law school student who can put your claim on record and advise you of your rights. Pay what you owe them and be pro-active about getting your bill however you need to. Get over the screw-up on their part for now; plan your revenge for later if you must. I'm constantly amazed how much burden is placed on the consumer to straighten this type of crap out, but it's undeniably true.
posted by jessamyn at 1:57 PM on May 17, 2004

My question is, what do I do now?

I suggest you take the buck you made in interest on the money you weren't spending on phone service over the last three years and go buy yourself a cup of coffee. This will give you the energy to deal with Verizon.
posted by kindall at 2:21 PM on May 17, 2004

whenever I am in a similar situation, I record the telephone calls I make

Please note this is illegal in many states unless you get permission of the other party.

As some others have alluded to, you probably signed a contract that stated you would pay Verizon money no matter if they sent you a bill or not. You may be able to get out of late fees, but do whatever you can to prevent it from getting to a collection agency. Those people are even less nice/caring than Verizon.
posted by falconred at 3:01 PM on May 17, 2004

How about sending them a check for $5000 and asking them to refund you the difference via check. But here's the catch! The check you send them is fake...

But seriously. I've spent a lot of time on the phone with Verizon DSL's tech support and billing personnel and if their phone people are anything like their DSL people, you may be able to resolve the matter with a little persistence. The people who could potentially wind up handling your call can vary widely in terms of intelligence, good will, and attitude, and a favorable solution is often a matter of talking to the right L-1. If you call a few times throughout the day you may get lucky.
posted by alphanerd at 3:06 PM on May 17, 2004

Being a utility call center rep, I've dealt with this before. Firsthand. More than once. For greater sums of money.
For everyone out there dealing with anyone over the phone, always start out by getting a name, extension and/or employee number, and where they are physically located. Take more notes than you think. Repeat things back to the rep. Ask them to read back what they have written exactly as it appears. Ask for timelines if the anticipated answer does not happen. Ask what would be the next step if the anticipated outcome does not occur. Don't always assume a first level rep has neither the authority nor the desire to resolve the issue with one call, but don't be afraid to ask for a Supervisor as well.
In this particular case, I would make sure they know you made attempts to contact them. If you have a copy of the email, fantastic. Utilities now view having any service as less of a right than a courtesy. I'd normally view something like this as akin to cable theft, but if you find a sympathetic ear that agrees you made several attempts, you should be able to at least get the payments spread out. Make sure there is no interest or late fees, and make sure you do not have to call each month to have said fees waived.
If they press hard and demand immediate payment, ask for the number for the Utility Commission in your state and the Attorney General. Often times they will steer you towards a Customer Assistance line or some such team that tries to intercept calls before they go before the Utility Commission. Often times utilities are just a complaint or two away from fines, and will do whatever they can to talk you out of calling the Commission.
posted by TomSophieIvy at 3:10 PM on May 17, 2004

Thank you all for replying - your information was very helpful. Here's the scoop:

I called and spoke to the collection department manager, telling them I don't want bad credit and am very interested in paying for services rendered. I set up a payment plan, which means they will turn my phone back on. (Naxo: they said it's illegal to fax invoices)

I called and spoke to a nice customer service manager, telling her I am absolutely going to cancel my service because I have called them 9 or 10 times about not getting my bill and they have not been helpful. She took my work number and said she would look to see if there was a system glitch beyond the correct db address entry that would cause me to not receive my bill.

Lastly I called the Online Help Desk. Back in the day at www.verizon.com, you couldn't register for the online service without putting in a number from your paper phone bill, which I didn't have. But the woman there told me she didn't have me registered and I asked her if there was any way I could be flagged as not receiving a paper bill. She said no. So I went online, and how heavenly: now you can use your SSN OR that number. So I can see my bill online now.

I may not ever get my paper bill, but now that I have online access it doesn't really matter. Thanks again everyone!
posted by tlong at 3:15 PM on May 17, 2004

Just a quick note: phone/utility companies generally don't report directly to credit bureaus. *Usually* it won't show up unless you are sent out to collection or get a court judgment against you. The times recently that I've looked at my own report there was nothing about either Big Comms Company that I've dealt with recently in there, including one with a long, silly screwup in progress.
posted by gimonca at 3:31 PM on May 17, 2004

Please note this is illegal in many states unless you get permission of the other party.

I inform them that I'm recording it. (And i'm not in the states but that's beside the point). You'd be amazed how much better you get treated when people know you're recording the conversation. (More than once I've just lied and said I don't have use of my "other" hand and can't take notes and need the recording to refer back to in order to make sure I follow their instructions properly.)
posted by dobbs at 3:32 PM on May 17, 2004

(In the time I was drafting this short novel, tlong made other arrangements. I've decided to post this anyway since it's useful information that some of you may not be aware of. As long as you're making payments to the collection agency, you still have the opportunity to resolve the matter differently, if you wish. Many collectors buy debt from the company they are collecting for. If this is the case, they buy it at a percentage of the value of the debt and then make their money on collecting the whole amount from you. Many collection agencies will give you a discount on your debt if you pay it all of at once. Additionally, collection agencies have no right to collect or even harass you if you have filed a complaint and have documentation. However, you will have to send them a letter within 30 to 60 days to prevent the collection agency from pursuing you.)

"Also, many companies have it in their terms and conditions that sending you a bill is purely a courtesy and that you are still responsible for paying what you owe every month regardless of whether or not you get a bill."

That is not true, especially in this case. You're slightly misreading the TAC. What those statements tend to be used for is to assign responsibility for payment of service, not to enforce draconian rules about paying bills you can't know the amount of.

First, phone service is rarely the same price every month. With service price increases and decreases, as well as new "fees" in addition to local, out of state, in state and international long distance service, there is no way you can know what to pay them. Not to mention, if the facts are as presented, tlong has a legitimate complaint and has available to her several avenues for resolving the dispute.

If your phone is being turned off immediate, call the following number:

[phone]

That is the Verizon headquarters phone number. Ask for the CEO's office. You will not be transferred directly to the CEO, but instead to one of a pool of secretaries that handle the calls. Explain to the secretary that you have an unresolved dispute that has gone on for three years and need to talk to "Executive Disputes Resolution" or "Presidential Dispute Resolution". This is the highest level of customer support and the typical CSR or call center worker will not know it even exists.

Make sure to get the name of the secretary and her direct extension. You'll need it to document what steps you've taken. Also make sure you get the direct number to the support team so you can call them back if need be.

Call this number and explain your situation. You should explain that you have been trying to resolve the situation for three years and wish to pay what you are responsible for. However, you can not since you have not received a bill. Ask for a certified letter to be sent to you or an overnight package with all of your missing bills. If they balk, make sure they understand that you aren't asking for expedited service, but you do wish to receive a tracking number and some sort of delivery confirmation.

Once you explain that you have every intention of paying, you should also make sure that your phone is not turned off. If it is, you then stand to receive some sort of compensation for the disruption to your service. (In my experience, they will waive the reconnection fees and give you a monthly charge for free, not much else.)

Make sure to get this persons phone number and extension. Make sure to take extensive notes.

Now, draft a letter to:

Verizon Communications
1095 Avenue of the Americas, 36th Floor
New York, NY 10036

You may want to ask the dispute person if there is a better address or if they want to be CC'd. This letter should just recount your story and the steps you've taken to deal with it. Include names and numbers where you have them.

(Your dispute specialist may say this is unnecessary at this time. However, if you do not receive some sort of resolution, this step will be necessary. If you do send the letter, send it certified.)

Finally, you should pull your credit report from Equifax, TransUnion and Experian Credit Reports. If you six months late on a bill, it can have a devastating effect on your credit. If there is a mark on your credit, make sure you have the mark removed before you make a payment or have it in writing that they will remove it. If it's not on your credit report, make sure you have documentation of your dispute, as it is against the rules of the credit reporting agencies for a creditor to add something to your credit report while it is being disputed. (They still do try to use the CRA as a means of harrassment, however. This is why you need documentation of your dispute. If you have it documented that you are in dispute, then the CRA will remove the erroneous entry even if the creditor says there is no dispute.)

Lastly, you can call the FCC, who can tell you what you can do to further the dispute if necessary.

888-225-5322

They have authority of these kinds of disputes, but they expect you to have made an effort to resolve the disputes on your own first.
posted by sequential at 3:36 PM on May 17, 2004

Glad it's worked out. but the first thing I thought was - If you pay, how can you be sure it will get to the right place? Since your bill has gone into a black hole for three years, I'd worry about where the check is going.

Good luck.
posted by y6y6y6 at 4:17 PM on May 17, 2004

When I was living at home my dad cancelled our cable. Half a year later, we were still getting it and not being billed for it. He contacted the cable company repeatedly over the phone and then eventually in writing to let them know we were still getting full cable. I was kind of annoyed at the time when they cancelled it due to his prompting, but I guess it's because of situations like this that he went to all that trouble.
posted by ODiV at 5:00 PM on May 17, 2004

I had a similar issue with SBC - apparently there was an outstanding payment on an account from an old apartment. The first I knew about it was when they cut off the telephone and DSL service in my new apartment.

Cutting off that service constituted a violation of my service agreement and incurred a $200 fine. I was livid.

The first three times I called to resolve the problem were utterly unsuccessful. I'd ask to speak to the manager, the managers manager, etc. Nothing worked, and I ended up receiving a collection notice.

I gave customer support a final try, and spoke to a woman who looked things over, said that the situation was a big mistake, and took care of everything. I was happy, but the whole thing was very strange. I got the impression that they kept track of how many times I called and complained. Once I hit a certain "magic number" they took care of the issue.

Do phone companies have policies like that, or did I just luck into talking to the right person?
posted by aladfar at 5:22 PM on May 17, 2004

"I was kind of annoyed at the time when they cancelled it due to his prompting, but I guess it's because of situations like this that he went to all that trouble."

Another useful tidbit, though it typically applies to credit card companies. Keep any bill or statement from them that states that it is your last bill or that you have canceled your service. Make sure you have the name, id number, extension, cancelation reference number from your cancelation order if done over the phone. If done via the postal service, keep any correspondence you send and receive.

If you have legitimately canceled your service and they give it to you for free (which is quite common with cable companies), they can not bill you. Many cable companies don't send a technician to the house to turn off basic cable. It's always worth checking. Some apartments I've lived in have had full cable services, including pay stations and I was never charged.

"Do phone companies have policies like that, or did I just luck into talking to the right person?"

The reality is that it really is luck of the draw. If you don't get an answer you like, keep calling until you get the right answer. (Seriously.)

However, they do keep track of how many times you call, what you say and a variety of other things. They have super caller id and can tell when and where you call from with great precision. What makes it into their CRM database is usually at the discretion of the CSR. If you want something specifically logged, you have to request it frequently.

Companies won't admit to doing things like this, but I've been put on infinite hold. To test my theory, I waited on the phone for hours. (Thanks to a headset!) While still on hold, I called from a cell registered in another persons name and got through the queue in less than five minutes. When I went to bed, I put the phone down, but did not hang up. When I woke up, I was still on hold.
posted by sequential at 5:40 PM on May 17, 2004

Here's a hardball approach : Bill Verizon $50 an hour for the time you spent trying to get them to send you a bill. Then, shell out the $50 or so to file in small claims court to collect the bill.

You'll likely win. Verizon probably won't show. Deduct the sum the small claims court judge awards you from the amount Verizon says you owe them.

Then, start writing up the experience - blow by blow - on a blog.

Also, contest any credit report charges and - if the judgement is not in your favor - appeal.

Mention to Verizon that you've been approached for the rights to a screenplay.

Emphasize, in all your communications, that you only want the best for all involved but that you're more than happy to bequeath the project to your grandchildren.

Next, buy a small amount of stock and then show up at a shareholder's meeting to file a motion - for the business to show greater sensitivity to customer needs.

Establish a web page which incessantly talks down Verizon stock prices.
posted by troutfishing at 8:11 PM on May 17, 2004

See also this AxeMe thread. And everyone should listen to that This American Life episode.
posted by obloquy at 8:42 PM on May 17, 2004

An idea if this happens to anyone else:

If you just can't get them to bill you, send, by registered mail, a request to cancel your service.

If they're this screwed up, they probably won't cancel it. Enjoy your legally free phone.

With the nice signed receipt you have, you can rub it in their face if they try this three years later. Personally, I'd rub it in their face in Small Claims Court, that way you have a judgement to show the credit companies, and they are then required by law to fix all the mistakes. Period. Probably worth the $75 or so it would cost.
posted by shepd at 12:41 AM on May 18, 2004

I had a similar problem with Verizon. I accidentally paid my cell phone bill (electronically) to my (old) land line account. It took over 15 months to even get someone to agree that they actually had the money, and then they started insisting that the land line company was completely different from the wireless company. What. Ever.

I spent hundreds of hours on the phone with them attempting to resolve this problem (we were talking about $750 -- not alot, but definitely not a pittance).

The solution -- I had a lawyer friend write a menacing letter. Shockingly, the funds were immediately moved to a proper account and, unless my math was completely off, they ended up crediting me too much.

I wish that I had sequential's info at the time, but I didn't. The moral: get a lawyer.

And one final note: Verizon could care less about complaints to the FCC and the BBB. So many have already been made that I'm not certain one more even matters. With that said, I filed the complaints anyway. They made me feel better.
posted by hummus at 8:14 AM on May 18, 2004

1. pay bill with registered letter
2. cancel service via register letter
3. enjoy free phone service, or go cellular
posted by mecran01 at 11:57 AM on May 18, 2004