Contractor or Friend, Pick Your Poison

September 29, 2007 2:31 PM

Diplomacy Filter: How can I tell my aquaintence/contractor/fellow club member that he overcharged me for some home repairs.

I should know better than mixing business with friendship. I have been a co-member of an organization with a person who is also a contractor. He has done a couple of small projects for me in the past as a favor even though he primarily does bigger structural repairs on buildings. I recently asked him if he could do a couple of small projects at my house. These are projects I could do myself but wanted them done professionally. He said he was very busy but would try to squeeze it in. The projects were to install baseboard millwork in a medium size room and a small drywall repair.

Although we didn't talk money I had projected a maximum of $400 dollars for this work. I got the bill yesterday and it's for 17 hours of work and $750. I believe 1 person could do it in 8. Should I bring this up to my friend when I'm sure he believes he was doing me a favor? Is there a way to do this without putting a damper on our relationship. I'm sure as a contractor he has a stereotype of a customer complaining about a bill. I don't want to be that stereotype, should I just forget about it?

posted by Xurando to grab bag (16 comments total)

Do you have any reason to believe he didn't spend 17 hours doing it? I mean, it seems like you would noitce a 9 hour difference when he was doing it.
posted by smackfu at 2:37 PM on September 29, 2007

You didn't talk money, but you said you wanted it done professionally. Sounds like your friend is a pro. Does the job look like it was done by a pro? If so, tell him thank you as you hand over your money. That's why you hired him.

If the job looks sub-par, then point out the flaws and begin negotiations for either a fix or a discount.

It sounds like you had a spending cap in your head, but didn't mention it prior to the project start. Spending caps are understandable, but they're worthless if you don't discuss it with your contractor on the front end.

I wouldn't dicker over the bill at this point, unless there are obvious problems with the craftsmanship.
posted by Slacker Manager at 2:50 PM on September 29, 2007

The most I would do in this situation is say, "Woa, you were in there for 17 hours? It didn't seem like that long!" To which he'll probably reply, "Yep, sure was." To which I might reply, "Geez, if I thought it was going to be so much for labor I would have forced myself to do it. I really didn't have this amount in my budget." To which I can not tell you what he will reply. :)

If you don't want to get into a forever-uncomfortable situation with him, I'd just count it as a lesson learned, and pay up. Unless he surprises you with reply #2.
posted by iguanapolitico at 3:04 PM on September 29, 2007

There were two workman, they arrived at 8 left at 3, had lunch, and according to my wife spent the bulk of their time joking, bickering, and yelling at eachother. The finished product was not much better than I could do myself. The main reason I hired him was I didn't have a mitre saw.
posted by Xurando at 3:09 PM on September 29, 2007

$350 is nothing to lose a friendship over. Sounds to me like this fellow took some time out of his busy schedule to do your job right, instead of half-assing it. $750 sounds a little low for 17 hours of skilled carpentry, too. That's only $45/hour, and that's assuming no materials costs (which there probably were).

Friends like this are hard to find. Pay the money, thank him and maybe toss in a bottle of wine or a six pack of good beer. Make sure to say the job he did looks fantastic, and I'll bet that extra $350 turns into the best investment you'll ever make.
posted by Aquaman at 3:15 PM on September 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

Baseboard installation...measure, materials purchase, delivery, cut & measure, mitering, priming, painting, installation, touch-up, caulking...That's not a small job if you want it done right.

Drywall work...measure, materials purchase, delivery, cut & measure, mounting, taping, mudding, sanding, sanding again, priming, painting. Again, it's not a quick job and you usually have to go do something else while waiting for the mud to dry.

The number of hours they were on site sounds low (12-13 hours together). But they might have done a lot of the prep work elsewhere. And you haven't mentioned whether the materials costs were included in the above price.

That being said, if you're unhappy with the job, ask your friend to make it right. Fous on that instead of the money. You'll have a better case.
posted by acoutu at 3:27 PM on September 29, 2007

Is the invoice divided into materials and labor? Drywall has been rising in price -- it's likely that materials cost more than you think. However, contractors will be slack with their paperwork unless you're specific, so be specific.

Mention the hours, but don't be surprised if the answer is 3 hours of offsite prep or that material costs were built in to the invoice.

DO NOT mention the "joking/bickering" thing unless you wish to look naive. I know a heck of a lot of contractors, and this is typical for how they work -- whether they're brilliant craftsmen or hacks, they BS all day long.

Also, next time, rent a mitre saw from Home Depot.
posted by desuetude at 3:35 PM on September 29, 2007

Also next time, get an estimate of time and cost before you do it.
posted by Madamina at 3:43 PM on September 29, 2007

I assumed that you had paid for materials and this was a separate labor bill, but if this bill includes materials, it sounds pretty cheap. :) Just pay it.
posted by iguanapolitico at 4:10 PM on September 29, 2007

(2 workers) x (2 days) x (7 hrs per day) = 28hrs.

If he's charging you for 17hrs, he's accounting for something, possibly the laughing and bickering that your wife says was "most of the time." Also, some people can talk and work at the same time.
posted by rhizome at 4:23 PM on September 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

If it were me, I'd curse myself for not getting a quote beforehand, and pay with smile.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 5:19 PM on September 29, 2007

I agree with everyone else. You are choked because you didn't realize how big/finicky of a job it really was and therefore how long the work would take. I think you probably got good value for your money. If the work looks bad, that is the issue to take to the contractor.

Pay up, my friend.
posted by ms.v. at 5:55 PM on September 29, 2007

Sorry, man, but pay up. You didn't have the contractor do an estimate, its not his usual area of work, and he did it as a favor to you.

And as someone with minor experience in construction, I will say that people are not good at estimating costs (even if the are handy around the house).
posted by shinynewnick at 6:43 PM on September 29, 2007

Pay him. You got what you clarified to the contractor. Which is to say, you needed to specify the level of the work and get a price before work started.

Finish carpenters command a high price per hour for a reason. Floors are rarely as level as you think they are (there is often scribing involved to fit baseboard properly). And corners are rarely a perfect 90 degrees. This requires lots of measuring and re-measuring and geometry calculations and fitting the trim. Unless you want to use a LOT of caulk (that's if you've painted the trim white and don't mind a sloppy finish) or live with gaps in your trim.

Trim is not as easy as it looks. I deal with this stuff everyday, and I've still not mastered excellent trim fit.

You might also want to purchase a miter saw. You can get a 10 inch Dewalt for about $250.
posted by jeanmari at 11:35 PM on September 29, 2007

I’m reluctant to get involved here without having seen the job, but a good trim carpenter should be able to install 6 sides of baseboard per hour. That’s in new construction, where the carpenters can set up and work inside the house. If they have to cut outside, add time. If there are a lot of cut outs for outlets, add a little time for that. To be generous, add another hour each for base-cap and shoe. Then there’s a maybe an hour for set-up and take down and, on a short term job, you’re likely to be charged some travel time.

Did they have to pre-finish or paint the material at the shop? Did they have to move a lot of furniture around? Did they have to remove the old base? It’s not easy to pull old base board without damaging the walls.

I don’t do much base board anymore, but a couple of weeks ago I did a room because it had an interesting assortment of odd angles. It had 9 sides (a long wall counts as two sides if it takes 2 pieces of base board). The base took me about two hours, with no cap or shoe. And the closet (6 sides because of a duct chase) took another hour.

I saw this thread yesterday and held off on commenting because I didn’t want to put in my two cents without having seen the job, but now that the consensus pretty much supports the bickering bozos... well, to be fair, trim carpenters do tend to bicker. My boss once interrupted a co-worker and me and told us that we were the most disputatious people he had ever met.
posted by Huplescat at 11:38 AM on September 30, 2007

Thanks Huplescat.

The baseboards were purchased prefinished and prepaid, we moved the furniture. The old base was removed by the floor person. Although there was a closet, it was straightforward. They just did the baseboards, no doors. As noted above I felt I could have done it myself in 8 hours.

The drywall was just spackiling over some tape that ws peeling off and they even left a gouge in the spackle that I'll have to fix.
posted by Xurando at 2:20 PM on October 1, 2007