real estate broker PITA
September 29, 2007 1:30 PM Subscribe
The real estate broker for our condo is a jackass...do we have any recourse?
We just moved into a condo and have two issues. A few days after closing, and about a week after submitting our new address to the United States Postal Service, we were informed that our street address would be changed. We've gone twelve days without mail. The broker has been difficult to get any response from, and we got no warning that this would happen. Now we have to get our new address re-recorded everywhere--USPS, utilities, etc. No apologies from the broker for our inconvenience.
The other thing is that the inspection found a pipe leak under the bathroom sink before we moved in. It's still not fixed. You brush your teeth for three minutes, and the entire bathroom floor is flooded. We've been living with this for a week. This broker tells our real estate agent that he'll have a plumber call us, but it's been a couple of weeks and we've gotten no action. We'd like to get it fixed and bill the broker, but if he didn't select the plumber, we're thinking he'll find a way to avoid compensating us on that basis.
I'm wondering if any mefites have experienced inaction like this, and whether and how you complained. I found a complaint form for realtors in our state, and I want to submit it. My husband isn't sure. The thing is, the broker hasn't really defrauded us--he's just non-communicative, a foot-dragger, and a giant dick--none of which are technically pusnishable by law I suppose.
Any advice would be welcome.
We just moved into a condo and have two issues. A few days after closing, and about a week after submitting our new address to the United States Postal Service, we were informed that our street address would be changed. We've gone twelve days without mail. The broker has been difficult to get any response from, and we got no warning that this would happen. Now we have to get our new address re-recorded everywhere--USPS, utilities, etc. No apologies from the broker for our inconvenience.
The other thing is that the inspection found a pipe leak under the bathroom sink before we moved in. It's still not fixed. You brush your teeth for three minutes, and the entire bathroom floor is flooded. We've been living with this for a week. This broker tells our real estate agent that he'll have a plumber call us, but it's been a couple of weeks and we've gotten no action. We'd like to get it fixed and bill the broker, but if he didn't select the plumber, we're thinking he'll find a way to avoid compensating us on that basis.
I'm wondering if any mefites have experienced inaction like this, and whether and how you complained. I found a complaint form for realtors in our state, and I want to submit it. My husband isn't sure. The thing is, the broker hasn't really defrauded us--he's just non-communicative, a foot-dragger, and a giant dick--none of which are technically pusnishable by law I suppose.
Any advice would be welcome.
Re pipe action:
Complain away, but this is why inspection contingencies should never be removed unless you get a cash holdback for the repairs that concern you in the report. When contingencies are removed and escrow closes, guess what? You bought the leak with the place. You may have a warranty if you or your agent bought one you can leverage, but at the end of the day I don't see how this is anyones problem but yours. You had the inspection which found it, and you didn't negotiate for the repair or get a hold back.
Re street address:
Bummer, such is life. There's an outside chance per your local laws this should have been disclosed, but it's not *that* big a deal.
You can go to your post office, ask them to hold the mail for both addresses. Go pick up mail until the local mail carriers are in tune with the new routine, or use a PO BOX. It's a big hassle and it possibly should have been disclosed but I don't know kind of penalty you're looking to impose on the broker.
posted by iamabot at 1:44 PM on September 29, 2007
Response by poster: Good question, I don't know why he's involved either. Whenever something happens, we ask our agent, and he contacts the broker--who seems to be behind everything.
We were leaving the house for work one day a few days ago, and saw that someone had laid out five new numerals on the ground next to our door the previous evening. That night they they'd been nailed to the outside of our condo. We called our agent and she told us that the broker had gone and changed our address. She thought this was wrong, because she'd been told by the fire inspector (or somebody, I'm very confused myself) that he wouldn't be permitted to do that. But apparently he was in the right. Our address is now changed.
There's some backstory about the addresses having been changed earlier, and the other condo residents complained. So they were changed back. But I'm not clear on who all was involved. It's hard to get info from these folks--that's all I know.
posted by frosty_hut at 1:47 PM on September 29, 2007
We were leaving the house for work one day a few days ago, and saw that someone had laid out five new numerals on the ground next to our door the previous evening. That night they they'd been nailed to the outside of our condo. We called our agent and she told us that the broker had gone and changed our address. She thought this was wrong, because she'd been told by the fire inspector (or somebody, I'm very confused myself) that he wouldn't be permitted to do that. But apparently he was in the right. Our address is now changed.
There's some backstory about the addresses having been changed earlier, and the other condo residents complained. So they were changed back. But I'm not clear on who all was involved. It's hard to get info from these folks--that's all I know.
posted by frosty_hut at 1:47 PM on September 29, 2007
The other thing is that the inspection found a pipe leak under the bathroom sink before we moved in. It's still not fixed.
Why wasn't this handled before or during closing? Where on earth was your real estate agent?
posted by desuetude at 2:05 PM on September 29, 2007
Why wasn't this handled before or during closing? Where on earth was your real estate agent?
posted by desuetude at 2:05 PM on September 29, 2007
Response by poster: Our agent knew about the inspection report. She told us everything would be fixed before we moved in. They had acres of time to do. it. The broker told her it was all good, and we believed them both. There seemed no reason to distrust anyone at that stage, because things had gone well up to then.
Does it look like our agent might be liable? She's been super helpful and I wouldn't be inclined to go after her...All I really want, I suppose, is an apology from the broker and a gift. (We were supposed to get a move-in gift, apparently, according to our agent.) I mean, just some kind of frickin' gesture that they've been jerks and they're sorry! Our time has been wasted, we've been as inconvenienced as fuck, and now it looks like we have to pay for a plumber ourselves, that's something we shouldn't be out of pocket for. I'm getting the feeling it will be impossible to get reimbursed by the broker. (I'm worried about damage to our bathroom floor from the flooding, too.)
posted by frosty_hut at 2:13 PM on September 29, 2007
Does it look like our agent might be liable? She's been super helpful and I wouldn't be inclined to go after her...All I really want, I suppose, is an apology from the broker and a gift. (We were supposed to get a move-in gift, apparently, according to our agent.) I mean, just some kind of frickin' gesture that they've been jerks and they're sorry! Our time has been wasted, we've been as inconvenienced as fuck, and now it looks like we have to pay for a plumber ourselves, that's something we shouldn't be out of pocket for. I'm getting the feeling it will be impossible to get reimbursed by the broker. (I'm worried about damage to our bathroom floor from the flooding, too.)
posted by frosty_hut at 2:13 PM on September 29, 2007
Did you have it in writing that it would be fixed?
posted by croutonsupafreak at 2:29 PM on September 29, 2007
posted by croutonsupafreak at 2:29 PM on September 29, 2007
All I really want, I suppose, is an apology from the broker and a gift.
That's sounds extremely unlikely. Press to have the floor fixed if that's something the broker is liable for since I'm a little unclear on the specifics. Keep hassling him until it's more of a pain for him to not get it fixed than to fix it, and absolutely make sure it's done right, including any floor or other damage.
The address change sounds really weird. The broker himself came and changed the address on your place? Have you talked to the post office about what's going on with your mail and address? That's seems really iffy.
posted by 6550 at 2:48 PM on September 29, 2007
That's sounds extremely unlikely. Press to have the floor fixed if that's something the broker is liable for since I'm a little unclear on the specifics. Keep hassling him until it's more of a pain for him to not get it fixed than to fix it, and absolutely make sure it's done right, including any floor or other damage.
The address change sounds really weird. The broker himself came and changed the address on your place? Have you talked to the post office about what's going on with your mail and address? That's seems really iffy.
posted by 6550 at 2:48 PM on September 29, 2007
Response by poster:
Did you have it in writing that it would be fixed?
Yeah, we're documenting everything. I've got a real estate agency complaint form form for our state. They say on here that they don't recover damages, but they can do reprimands and suspensions...Maybe the threat of something like that would spur this guy on.
We might send the broker a letter, with the inspection report attached, and just ask him to fix the damn leak. My husband doesn't want to ruffle his feathers, in case he can make our life difficult later (we've never had a condo before, and don't know how much of a part this guy is going to play in future--I don't think he's connected with the condo association, but I suppose that would be helpful to know). So we figure, if we document the process, ask him in writing to fix the leak, and he still doesn't, then we'll send of a complaint to the state realty board.
Anything else we should do?
Yeah, the address thing is a freakout. It's a newer complex, not even a year old. My understanding is the addresses of the units were established and then changed, but the residents complained. So now they're being changed back. (Go figure...)
posted by frosty_hut at 2:54 PM on September 29, 2007
Did you have it in writing that it would be fixed?
Yeah, we're documenting everything. I've got a real estate agency complaint form form for our state. They say on here that they don't recover damages, but they can do reprimands and suspensions...Maybe the threat of something like that would spur this guy on.
We might send the broker a letter, with the inspection report attached, and just ask him to fix the damn leak. My husband doesn't want to ruffle his feathers, in case he can make our life difficult later (we've never had a condo before, and don't know how much of a part this guy is going to play in future--I don't think he's connected with the condo association, but I suppose that would be helpful to know). So we figure, if we document the process, ask him in writing to fix the leak, and he still doesn't, then we'll send of a complaint to the state realty board.
Anything else we should do?
Yeah, the address thing is a freakout. It's a newer complex, not even a year old. My understanding is the addresses of the units were established and then changed, but the residents complained. So now they're being changed back. (Go figure...)
posted by frosty_hut at 2:54 PM on September 29, 2007
Our agent knew about the inspection report. She told us everything would be fixed before we moved in. They had acres of time to do. it. The broker told her it was all good, and we believed them both.
Was it broken during the pre-closing walk-through? Was this pointed out to your agent to negotiate at closing?
You bought the condo. You have to advocate for yourself. Incidentally, you should keep the water from flooding your bathroom floor, because there's no way that anyone is going to feel liable for damages made to the condo by you after you moved in.
I feel like I'm missing something here -- you characterize having to turn off the water when you brush your teeth is "inconvenienced as fuck" but you've let the pipe stay broken for weeks. Have you asked the broker if he'd reimburse you for the repair?
posted by desuetude at 3:05 PM on September 29, 2007
Was it broken during the pre-closing walk-through? Was this pointed out to your agent to negotiate at closing?
You bought the condo. You have to advocate for yourself. Incidentally, you should keep the water from flooding your bathroom floor, because there's no way that anyone is going to feel liable for damages made to the condo by you after you moved in.
I feel like I'm missing something here -- you characterize having to turn off the water when you brush your teeth is "inconvenienced as fuck" but you've let the pipe stay broken for weeks. Have you asked the broker if he'd reimburse you for the repair?
posted by desuetude at 3:05 PM on September 29, 2007
Since you ask, "Anything else we should do," have you addressed the damage to the leak, ie by putting a bucket under it or attempting to fix it yourself?
My apologies for this question if the answer is yes. I'm not trying to offend; I used to be very nonchalant about repairs to my place, too. But you'll find after a few years of condo ownership that it's a good idea to strike while the pan is hot, even if it's somebody else's fault.
You might even try jumping in and fixing the leak yourself with a few tools. Yes, that'd mean that you'd be giving up the fight. But it might not be that hard to fix, if you consult a book. At least poke around a bit. If it's more than a three-hour job, I'd say go after the real-estate agent, but if it's a matter of tightening a few sleeves around the pipes, you might attempt the work yourself.
You'll be surprised at how many leaks you'll face over the years. They always happen in the middle of the night on weekends, too. Murphy's law and all that. Now might be a good time to dive in and try a repair, if it looks doable.
posted by Gordion Knott at 3:17 PM on September 29, 2007
My apologies for this question if the answer is yes. I'm not trying to offend; I used to be very nonchalant about repairs to my place, too. But you'll find after a few years of condo ownership that it's a good idea to strike while the pan is hot, even if it's somebody else's fault.
You might even try jumping in and fixing the leak yourself with a few tools. Yes, that'd mean that you'd be giving up the fight. But it might not be that hard to fix, if you consult a book. At least poke around a bit. If it's more than a three-hour job, I'd say go after the real-estate agent, but if it's a matter of tightening a few sleeves around the pipes, you might attempt the work yourself.
You'll be surprised at how many leaks you'll face over the years. They always happen in the middle of the night on weekends, too. Murphy's law and all that. Now might be a good time to dive in and try a repair, if it looks doable.
posted by Gordion Knott at 3:17 PM on September 29, 2007
If you have a contract that says the seller was going to fix something, and the seller didn't fix it, take action against the seller, get your sink fixed, and keep the receipts. If you have moved into a place with a condo association that repairs leaks, call them. If they don't, welcome to home ownership.
Brokers broker the sale of property, they aren't landlords. They have nothing to do with your address changing, or repairs getting done. The reason you keep calling your agent who keeps calling the seller's agent is that your agent can't do anything for you - you signed the papers, she's done - and she can't contact the sellers, only their agent, who also can't do anything. If you made a request to have a repair made, and the broker communicated that to the sellers by whatever means mandated in your location, he did his job. The sellers failed to take care of business.
But then you bought the place without confirming that the requested repair had been made, thereby giving up any leverage you had. Get a lawyer if you want to pursue resolution with the sellers, if you must, but stop with the complaints and trying to get other people to fix your problem. I know it sucks having to get stuff fixed when you're probably a little poor from moving and all that, but it's a leaky sink. Find $200 - if that - and move on.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:27 PM on September 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Brokers broker the sale of property, they aren't landlords. They have nothing to do with your address changing, or repairs getting done. The reason you keep calling your agent who keeps calling the seller's agent is that your agent can't do anything for you - you signed the papers, she's done - and she can't contact the sellers, only their agent, who also can't do anything. If you made a request to have a repair made, and the broker communicated that to the sellers by whatever means mandated in your location, he did his job. The sellers failed to take care of business.
But then you bought the place without confirming that the requested repair had been made, thereby giving up any leverage you had. Get a lawyer if you want to pursue resolution with the sellers, if you must, but stop with the complaints and trying to get other people to fix your problem. I know it sucks having to get stuff fixed when you're probably a little poor from moving and all that, but it's a leaky sink. Find $200 - if that - and move on.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:27 PM on September 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
We'd like to get it fixed and bill the broker,
It doesn't sound like you understand what the role of the broker is. Unless there's something unique about your relationship with your broker, brokers are not responsible for fixing any problem that arises with the property you buy. You're expecting him to do something about your address changing --- sorry, that just seems unreasonable. And you're wanting to bill the broker for a repair to the plumbing. Before I closed on my current house, I had it inspected and had the opportunity to demand that certain things were fixed before we sealed the deal. It would seem, from the way you've described your problem, that you didn't do your due diligence (I hate that phrase, but it's apt here) before closing on your purchase. Why did you agree to buy the property before making sure there were no maintenance problems?
All I really want, I suppose, is an apology from the broker and a gift. (We were supposed to get a move-in gift, apparently, according to our agent.)
It doesn't really sound like you're owed an apology, and with the way you're describing the broker ("jackass," "dick") my guess is that he may not have felt working with you was all peaches and cream, either.
posted by jayder at 3:37 PM on September 29, 2007
It doesn't sound like you understand what the role of the broker is. Unless there's something unique about your relationship with your broker, brokers are not responsible for fixing any problem that arises with the property you buy. You're expecting him to do something about your address changing --- sorry, that just seems unreasonable. And you're wanting to bill the broker for a repair to the plumbing. Before I closed on my current house, I had it inspected and had the opportunity to demand that certain things were fixed before we sealed the deal. It would seem, from the way you've described your problem, that you didn't do your due diligence (I hate that phrase, but it's apt here) before closing on your purchase. Why did you agree to buy the property before making sure there were no maintenance problems?
All I really want, I suppose, is an apology from the broker and a gift. (We were supposed to get a move-in gift, apparently, according to our agent.)
It doesn't really sound like you're owed an apology, and with the way you're describing the broker ("jackass," "dick") my guess is that he may not have felt working with you was all peaches and cream, either.
posted by jayder at 3:37 PM on September 29, 2007
Why did you agree to buy the property before making sure there were no maintenance problems?
Have you read the thread? He stated that the agent and broker told him everything would be taken care of. He thought he had done his diligence.
The lesson to take from this is that realtors, agents, and brokers don't work for you, they work for themselves. Realtors are more dangerous than used car dealers because most folks think the real estate professionals work for them. In fact, their incentive is to close a deal, any deal, and not necessarily the best deal for you. Here, they spoke some sweet words to smooth over a possible sticking point and thought they could walk away. You may have no legal recourse, but you can tell your friends and post their names here if they don't follow up to your satisfaction.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 4:31 PM on September 29, 2007
Have you read the thread? He stated that the agent and broker told him everything would be taken care of. He thought he had done his diligence.
The lesson to take from this is that realtors, agents, and brokers don't work for you, they work for themselves. Realtors are more dangerous than used car dealers because most folks think the real estate professionals work for them. In fact, their incentive is to close a deal, any deal, and not necessarily the best deal for you. Here, they spoke some sweet words to smooth over a possible sticking point and thought they could walk away. You may have no legal recourse, but you can tell your friends and post their names here if they don't follow up to your satisfaction.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 4:31 PM on September 29, 2007
Call the Board of Realtors and go from there.
Believe me, they can get this guy's attention. BELIEVE me.
(Does he work for a company? There should also be a broker-in-charge at his company and that person's job is to ride herd on the agents. Sic' em!)
As far as maintenance, did y'all do a final walkthru before the closing? If you do have the repair thing in writing, they do have to do it. See my first advice, above.
Oh, and the cristopher hundreds? You don't know much about the business, and just how easy it is to sue an agent and take both their money and job license away from them for stupid crap. A decent agent will care about his or her client because it is in his or her best interest to do so.
posted by konolia at 4:56 PM on September 29, 2007
Believe me, they can get this guy's attention. BELIEVE me.
(Does he work for a company? There should also be a broker-in-charge at his company and that person's job is to ride herd on the agents. Sic' em!)
As far as maintenance, did y'all do a final walkthru before the closing? If you do have the repair thing in writing, they do have to do it. See my first advice, above.
Oh, and the cristopher hundreds? You don't know much about the business, and just how easy it is to sue an agent and take both their money and job license away from them for stupid crap. A decent agent will care about his or her client because it is in his or her best interest to do so.
posted by konolia at 4:56 PM on September 29, 2007
Have you read the thread? He stated that the agent and broker told him everything would be taken care of. He thought he had done his diligence.
Did the broker tell her her address would never change? I find that hard to believe.
And second, it's a commonplace that you hire your own, independent inspector to make sure that the problems with a home are taken care of. If the seller doesn't fix them, your remedy is with the seller, not the broker.
You don't know much about the business, and just how easy it is to sue an agent and take both their money and job license away from them for stupid crap.
That's a bunch of malarkey. It's not easy to sue anyone and take their money and job license away, and it damned sure wouldn't be easy to do it to a real estate broker.
posted by jayder at 5:22 PM on September 29, 2007
Did the broker tell her her address would never change? I find that hard to believe.
And second, it's a commonplace that you hire your own, independent inspector to make sure that the problems with a home are taken care of. If the seller doesn't fix them, your remedy is with the seller, not the broker.
You don't know much about the business, and just how easy it is to sue an agent and take both their money and job license away from them for stupid crap.
That's a bunch of malarkey. It's not easy to sue anyone and take their money and job license away, and it damned sure wouldn't be easy to do it to a real estate broker.
posted by jayder at 5:22 PM on September 29, 2007
Did the broker tell her her address would never change? I find that hard to believe.
I was specifically referring to the maintenance issue. I don't understand the complaint on the postal issue and didn't comment on it. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
And second, it's a commonplace that you hire your own, independent inspector to make sure that the problems with a home are taken care of. If the seller doesn't fix them, your remedy is with the seller, not the broker.
But if your broker, who is supposedly earning his thousands of dollars in commission in part as a go-between for the buyer and seller, tells you the issues are going to be addressed, don't you think the broker has a duty to see that the issues get addressed? That's where frosty_hut's main complaint is or at least should be. The realtors have made their money on this transaction and won't want to revisit it. To make it worth their while you have to threaten future deals, ie, tell them you're going to share your disappointment if they don't fulfill their promise.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 5:42 PM on September 29, 2007
Something is amiss here... you said that you don't know how the broker is involved with the condo association, but then your agent is saying the broker is the one who changed the address numbers.
Also, I don't see how you were supposed to be getting a move-in gift from the broker (unless it was a sales incentive in writing). Closing gifts are always given to you by the agent on your side (aka your agent).
I know you think your agent is nice and all, but what it boils down to is your agent not doing his or her job to represent you in these problem areas before the closing. I'm 99% sure that you signed a paper at closing that said everything had been fixed to your satisfaction, and your agent should not have let it get to that point - either requiring it to be fixed as agreed to in writing, or giving an allowance at closing to be put toward the repairs that were not finished.
That being said, sounds like the broker is quite possibly an ass. Welcome to real estate.
posted by shinynewnick at 7:09 PM on September 29, 2007
Also, I don't see how you were supposed to be getting a move-in gift from the broker (unless it was a sales incentive in writing). Closing gifts are always given to you by the agent on your side (aka your agent).
I know you think your agent is nice and all, but what it boils down to is your agent not doing his or her job to represent you in these problem areas before the closing. I'm 99% sure that you signed a paper at closing that said everything had been fixed to your satisfaction, and your agent should not have let it get to that point - either requiring it to be fixed as agreed to in writing, or giving an allowance at closing to be put toward the repairs that were not finished.
That being said, sounds like the broker is quite possibly an ass. Welcome to real estate.
posted by shinynewnick at 7:09 PM on September 29, 2007
Are you using the word "broker" to describe the developer's salesperson? A salespeople that was retained by the developer to sell the condos in a building that they had built?
If so, there is no customer service responsibility to the salesperson's job. If you bought the unit from a developer through a salesperson, the developer is responsible for fixing the plumbing that was documented in an inspection. (It was documented, right? Not just something someone said to you?)
posted by jeanmari at 11:05 PM on September 29, 2007
If so, there is no customer service responsibility to the salesperson's job. If you bought the unit from a developer through a salesperson, the developer is responsible for fixing the plumbing that was documented in an inspection. (It was documented, right? Not just something someone said to you?)
posted by jeanmari at 11:05 PM on September 29, 2007
Did the developer change the address numbers? Could that would actually make sense. Not that there is anything that you could do about it if that is so.
posted by jeanmari at 11:07 PM on September 29, 2007
posted by jeanmari at 11:07 PM on September 29, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks, all, for these thoughts.
I'm just starting to learn everyone's roles in the process myself (after having been a renter for 20 years). As a first-time home buyer, I'm very confused--hence my appeal to ask.me--and I apologize if my story has been confusing. But you've all given me some helpful things to consider, and I appreciate it.
I'll update when things get resolved. Thanks again!
posted by frosty_hut at 1:23 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm just starting to learn everyone's roles in the process myself (after having been a renter for 20 years). As a first-time home buyer, I'm very confused--hence my appeal to ask.me--and I apologize if my story has been confusing. But you've all given me some helpful things to consider, and I appreciate it.
I'll update when things get resolved. Thanks again!
posted by frosty_hut at 1:23 PM on October 1, 2007
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posted by clh at 1:39 PM on September 29, 2007 [2 favorites]