Opposites Attract...
September 27, 2007 7:07 PM Subscribe
[MovieGeekFilter] HiveMind, please help me think of recent American movies that have dramatically different A & B Stories.
Looking for American movies, the more recent the better, that have a big difference between their main plot and the main subplot. (Known as the "A-Story" and the "B-Story.") Please also include the A & B stories.
Examples:
Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Spies & Marital Problems)
Jurassic Park (Cloning Dinos & Learning to Like Children)
The Matrix (Save The World & Reality is an Illusion)
The Incredibles (Superheros & Family Problems)
True Lies (Spies & Family Problems)
Thanks in advance!
Looking for American movies, the more recent the better, that have a big difference between their main plot and the main subplot. (Known as the "A-Story" and the "B-Story.") Please also include the A & B stories.
Examples:
Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Spies & Marital Problems)
Jurassic Park (Cloning Dinos & Learning to Like Children)
The Matrix (Save The World & Reality is an Illusion)
The Incredibles (Superheros & Family Problems)
True Lies (Spies & Family Problems)
Thanks in advance!
I think every movie with a subplot is like this. Hence "subplot".
posted by lain at 7:33 PM on September 27, 2007
posted by lain at 7:33 PM on September 27, 2007
Response by poster: You're just talking about Love/Buddy stories which appear in just about every commercial movie.
I'm looking for the ones where the A & B stories don't even seem to be living in the same neighborhood.
For example, most spy movies are about The Big Spy Operation + Hero Being Hunted (or) Hero Falls In Love.
Mr & Mrs. Smith combined Big Spy Operation with Marriage Counseling -- a bit further afield, IMHO.
I'm looking for the big disconnect between plots.
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 7:36 PM on September 27, 2007
I'm looking for the ones where the A & B stories don't even seem to be living in the same neighborhood.
For example, most spy movies are about The Big Spy Operation + Hero Being Hunted (or) Hero Falls In Love.
Mr & Mrs. Smith combined Big Spy Operation with Marriage Counseling -- a bit further afield, IMHO.
I'm looking for the big disconnect between plots.
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 7:36 PM on September 27, 2007
Response by poster: Iain: respectfully disagree. Most sci-fi epics about Saving Humanity don't have a B-Story about What You Think Is Real Is Not, like Matrix. Subplots normally are more closely related to the A-story.
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 7:40 PM on September 27, 2007
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 7:40 PM on September 27, 2007
Best answer: Game show pioneer and CIA assassin? Or is that one plot?
posted by ALongDecember at 7:47 PM on September 27, 2007
posted by ALongDecember at 7:47 PM on September 27, 2007
What you are talking about sounds like the Nine Act Structure. I was thinking of doing an FPP about this, in fact.
The idea is that major hollywood films build two plots with different goals using the same characters, and the resolution of the first leads to the resolution of the second, but the two plots are not inherently related.
The author of the nine act structure, Dave Siegel, is working on a comprehensive database of story structures from movies. You could probably ask him.
See also 1 2
posted by Pastabagel at 8:04 PM on September 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
The idea is that major hollywood films build two plots with different goals using the same characters, and the resolution of the first leads to the resolution of the second, but the two plots are not inherently related.
The author of the nine act structure, Dave Siegel, is working on a comprehensive database of story structures from movies. You could probably ask him.
See also 1 2
posted by Pastabagel at 8:04 PM on September 27, 2007 [5 favorites]
ScarletPumpernickel: Most movies have a What You Think Is Real Is Not subplot - not to the same degree as The Matrix, perhaps, but any plot-driven movie is going to involve the characters learning something Profound and Fundamental about themselves or others or whatnot.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 8:06 PM on September 27, 2007
posted by spaceman_spiff at 8:06 PM on September 27, 2007
Best answer: Grosse Pointe Blank - (Killing people for hire + Rekindling Lost Love)
that one's hard to beat for A+B split
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:20 PM on September 27, 2007
that one's hard to beat for A+B split
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:20 PM on September 27, 2007
The Illusionist:
A = Making the woman he loves 'disappear' in an elaborate magic trick
B = Stopping an evil prince from overthrowing the government
posted by Eringatang at 8:25 PM on September 27, 2007
A = Making the woman he loves 'disappear' in an elaborate magic trick
B = Stopping an evil prince from overthrowing the government
posted by Eringatang at 8:25 PM on September 27, 2007
Response by poster: ALongDecember: AWESOME! I forgot completely about COADM. Great example.
mcstayinschool: WONDERFUL! Gross Pointe Blank is another good data point.
Eringatang: didn't see it -- will check it out. Thanks!
More along these lines would be appreciated...
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 8:39 PM on September 27, 2007
mcstayinschool: WONDERFUL! Gross Pointe Blank is another good data point.
Eringatang: didn't see it -- will check it out. Thanks!
More along these lines would be appreciated...
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 8:39 PM on September 27, 2007
I'm sorry, I must be missing something. How is every movie not able to be broken into two unrelated stories?
"Coming to terms with aging + Beating Ricardo Montalban"
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:22 PM on September 27, 2007
"Coming to terms with aging + Beating Ricardo Montalban"
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:22 PM on September 27, 2007
Scarlet: Then perhaps every movie thats not a typical sci-fi epic?
posted by lain at 10:51 PM on September 27, 2007
posted by lain at 10:51 PM on September 27, 2007
Best answer: I think you're onto something with the Mr. & Mrs. Smith example, but I'm not sure it's as profound a difference as you're making it out to be.
It's basically an elevator pitch movie: "They're CIA assassins. They're in love. And they have to kill each other." Done up as a comedy-drama. Action appeals to men! Relationship appeals to women! Meta-jokes (like the fight in the car) appeal to film geeks! Well, maybe that last one is just so the filmmakers don't get bored.
And any better sf movie is going to have a grounded-in-reality subplot, these days, for better character development. Action movies like M&MS mix in romantic subplots to make them a little more like date movies. The crossover factor, so a movie breaks out of its expected audience.
Aliens: Bug Hunt + Learning About Motherhood.
posted by dhartung at 2:04 AM on September 28, 2007
It's basically an elevator pitch movie: "They're CIA assassins. They're in love. And they have to kill each other." Done up as a comedy-drama. Action appeals to men! Relationship appeals to women! Meta-jokes (like the fight in the car) appeal to film geeks! Well, maybe that last one is just so the filmmakers don't get bored.
And any better sf movie is going to have a grounded-in-reality subplot, these days, for better character development. Action movies like M&MS mix in romantic subplots to make them a little more like date movies. The crossover factor, so a movie breaks out of its expected audience.
Aliens: Bug Hunt + Learning About Motherhood.
posted by dhartung at 2:04 AM on September 28, 2007
I too am in the camp that thinks that most movies are like this... anyway how about...
Dog Day Afternoon: Rob a bank + Rekindle relationship with your beard-wife and your transsexual-lover
Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle: Get confidence in yourself + Try to get to White Castle
posted by shokod at 4:29 AM on September 28, 2007
Dog Day Afternoon: Rob a bank + Rekindle relationship with your beard-wife and your transsexual-lover
Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle: Get confidence in yourself + Try to get to White Castle
posted by shokod at 4:29 AM on September 28, 2007
The Big Lebowski: Kidnapping/ransom + ...fuck it, Dude. Let's go bowling.
posted by pardonyou? at 6:31 AM on September 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by pardonyou? at 6:31 AM on September 28, 2007 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Aliens is a great example. Lebowski might be, too. I'll look at it.
For the rest, most "commercial" movies use Goal+Love/Friendship and Goal+Prove Yourself/Come Of Age. That's why Dog Day Afternoon and H&K don't qualify; they're the Ordinary Subject Matter, with some quirkiness.
Aliens is exactly the kind of movie I mean. Bug Hunt+Learning about Motherhood. Two stories you really don't expect to see in one movie. Maybe that's a better way to look at it. Movies with A & B stories you don't expect to be in the same movie.
Drug bust & Love story? See it all the time.
Cloning Dinos & Parenting skills? Not so much.
Any other movie suggestions would be appreciated, especially if they are NOT science-fiction or spy movies.
P.S. -- JKF - What movie is "Coming to terms with aging + Beating Ricardo Montalban" ?
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 10:22 AM on September 28, 2007
For the rest, most "commercial" movies use Goal+Love/Friendship and Goal+Prove Yourself/Come Of Age. That's why Dog Day Afternoon and H&K don't qualify; they're the Ordinary Subject Matter, with some quirkiness.
Aliens is exactly the kind of movie I mean. Bug Hunt+Learning about Motherhood. Two stories you really don't expect to see in one movie. Maybe that's a better way to look at it. Movies with A & B stories you don't expect to be in the same movie.
Drug bust & Love story? See it all the time.
Cloning Dinos & Parenting skills? Not so much.
Any other movie suggestions would be appreciated, especially if they are NOT science-fiction or spy movies.
P.S. -- JKF - What movie is "Coming to terms with aging + Beating Ricardo Montalban" ?
posted by ScarletPumpernickel at 10:22 AM on September 28, 2007
Mr. & Mrs. Smith's we're-married-assassins-assigned-to-kill-each-other had been done before. So had Grosse Pointe Blank's hitman in love.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:01 PM on September 28, 2007
posted by kirkaracha at 12:01 PM on September 28, 2007
Most movies seem to involve a "learn about yourself/life lessons" type plotline anyway, so however that aspect of the story is told, it's still just a vehicle.
I thought the original question would be more about movies with two or three completely unrelated, parallel plotlines, that may or may not end up crossing paths by the end of the movie. TV shows do them all the time, but they often stay separate (Captain struggles with interplanetary peace negotiations/Junior struggles with new paper route).
One exception might be "Numbers" (at least when I still watched it), where the B-plot would conveniently help the math whiz discover an out-of-the-blue way to approach the solution for the A-plot's mystery.
A movie example of parallel storylines could be something on the lines of Pulp Fiction, although those all sort of dealt with seedy underground-type storylines.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 1:35 AM on September 29, 2007
I thought the original question would be more about movies with two or three completely unrelated, parallel plotlines, that may or may not end up crossing paths by the end of the movie. TV shows do them all the time, but they often stay separate (Captain struggles with interplanetary peace negotiations/Junior struggles with new paper route).
One exception might be "Numbers" (at least when I still watched it), where the B-plot would conveniently help the math whiz discover an out-of-the-blue way to approach the solution for the A-plot's mystery.
A movie example of parallel storylines could be something on the lines of Pulp Fiction, although those all sort of dealt with seedy underground-type storylines.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 1:35 AM on September 29, 2007
SOME SPOILERS -----
Here are a bunch of kinds of unexpected-justaposition movies; not sure if any of these meet what you're looking for. Some of what you seem to want is genre crossover (family comedy+action movie).
High school + supernatural horror (Buffy; Carrie; ...)
Fine cuisine + rats (Ratatouille)
Doll + horror (Chucky movies)
Fighting natural phenomena + ex-lovers' tiff (Twister, dozens of other movies)
Irish nationalism and troubles + can a straight man love an MTF transvestite (Crying Game)
comedy + zombies (Shaun of the Dead)
western + gays (Brokeback Mt)
old age/retirement home life + supernatural horror (Bubba Ho-tep)
old age + aliens (Cocoon)
office politics + sex drama (Secretary)
giant monster + love and the humanity within us all (King Kong)
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:59 PM on September 29, 2007
Here are a bunch of kinds of unexpected-justaposition movies; not sure if any of these meet what you're looking for. Some of what you seem to want is genre crossover (family comedy+action movie).
High school + supernatural horror (Buffy; Carrie; ...)
Fine cuisine + rats (Ratatouille)
Doll + horror (Chucky movies)
Fighting natural phenomena + ex-lovers' tiff (Twister, dozens of other movies)
Irish nationalism and troubles + can a straight man love an MTF transvestite (Crying Game)
comedy + zombies (Shaun of the Dead)
western + gays (Brokeback Mt)
old age/retirement home life + supernatural horror (Bubba Ho-tep)
old age + aliens (Cocoon)
office politics + sex drama (Secretary)
giant monster + love and the humanity within us all (King Kong)
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:59 PM on September 29, 2007
Or, you like a movie where the hook of the movie is: there is this guy, and he has two inconsistent/rarely-juxtaposed jobs/goals. (and, these are not often seen together in movies - so for example "save my girlfriend and stop the terrorists" doesn't count)
Or a movie in which there is a plot, and it takes place against a bizarre setting (like the Matrix) -- Charlie Kauffmann movies like Being John Malkovich are good for this.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:08 PM on September 29, 2007
Or a movie in which there is a plot, and it takes place against a bizarre setting (like the Matrix) -- Charlie Kauffmann movies like Being John Malkovich are good for this.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:08 PM on September 29, 2007
P.S. -- JKF - What movie is "Coming to terms with aging + Beating Ricardo Montalban"
Star Trek II. :-)
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 7:23 AM on October 1, 2007
Star Trek II. :-)
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 7:23 AM on October 1, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Overcoming Dangerous Bad Guys + Learning to Love Again
And most comedies...
Overcoming Absurd Situation + Learning that Mismatched Buddies/Lovers Have Something in Common After All
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:19 PM on September 27, 2007