Comments on: What a meanie!!

Question: What a meanie!!

melangell — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:26:57 -0800

I didn't even know this was illegal and I just got a ticket for it! What would be the best option -paying the fine or going to court?

Hurrying back to work, I cut through a parking lot to avoid a red light and got pulled over. There were no signs and I see people doing it all the time, but it was the first time that I have done it. When the cop pulled me over, I was very polite, called him "sir," did not argue, but explained that I was just trying to get back to work on time after lunch. He was nice and I thought that he was going to let me off, but he gave me a $120 ticket! Is it worth it to go to court? My husband said that it probably won't affect our insurance. He doubts that I will get out of it, since I did commit the offense.

By: 4ster

4ster — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:30:24 -0800

Yeah, its illegal, and (IANAL) any lawyer will tell you ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Pay the fine, or you'll miss a half-day of work going to court and still pay the fine.

By: Autarky

Autarky — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:37:52 -0800

Wow. I do this aaaallllll the time. Sorry you got caught, there are probably a lot of people on here that will learn from it, though.

By: Ambrosia Voyeur

Ambrosia Voyeur — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:38:40 -0800

Why do you think you should have been let off? Is there some reason other than your ignorance of this law that you can present before a judge? If not, I'd say don't waste a spot on the docket for a roll of the dice on whether your officer shows up in court, over $120.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:40:37 -0800

Let this be a lesson to you: Lie to the police. Having been pulled over for the same thing, I told the police that I was going to drop off my movies at the Blockbuster in the strip mall, then realized I didn't have them. No ticket, no problem.

And, of course, I don't do this every day.

By: jaimystery

jaimystery — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:41:10 -0800

Pay the ticket, don't do it again.

If you absolutely, positively HAVE to drive through a parking lot - fumble for your cellphone, pull into the lot and stop your car. Check the display before driving forward. Then you can honestly say, "I pulled over to take a phone call" or "I thought my phone was ringing and I don't drive while on the phone" and you didn't technically avoid the intersection but no guarantees that this will work in any/all situations.

By: doorsfan

doorsfan — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:41:25 -0800

Yup, illegal. It goes for cutting through any lot - gas station, mall, grocery store...I think the only real excuse would be:

"I was going to go to the (wherever you pulled into) but I realized I forgot what
I was going to return (or some other logical reason for not stopping)".

By: jalexei

jalexei — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:42:22 -0800

Wow. I do this aaaallllll the time.

When I'm sitting in a line waiting for a green I wish ill things upon those who think they're so important they can't wait for a light - sorry about that infected boil on your.... ;-)

Seriously, didn't think it would be quite that expensive, but I've always known (and a quick, non-scientific poll here at the office agrees) that cutting through a lot to avoid a light is illegal. Depending on how clean your driving record is, and how flexible your schedule is, I'd definitely go to court. I agree it's very unlikely you'll get out of it, but a contrite plea of guilty (coupled with a hopefully clean driving record) may result in a reduced fine. I know some jurisidictions may have less flexibility than others, but for $120, I see if I could get it reduced.

Some years back I had a suspension and fine (for inadvertantly driving without insurance) waived because the judge felt "the punishment didn't fit the crime" if the suspension was essentially clerical in nature (non-payment of an insurance surchage) and I only had to pay the $30 restortation fee given the surcharges were taken care of. Can't hurt to give it a try.

By: Artful Codger

Artful Codger — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:43:07 -0800

Of course it's illegal. Avoiding a light by cutting across private property? Two strikes.

I don't know about NYC, but here you can sometimes get tickets adjusted (eg lesser charge, no demerit points, or reduced fine) or cancelled by appearing in court and offering a mitigating explanation. I suspect however that you really don't have a case to make.

Pay it, and move on.

By: Listener

Listener — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:47:27 -0800

Why not fight it? In Canada, the principle is that such behaviour is not a "marked departure from the norm" ie that people do this sometimes. The trick is, did you do it wildly, recklessly, at high speed? Did you get in anyone's way. Was there any obvious risk caused by what you did? If not, I would argue that, and you might win, especially if the cop doesn't show up. Also, the fact of your ignorance is in your favour, even though that is not enough to excuse you. It can and should still be weighed into the decision. Traffic judges sometimes weigh things and some of them are just into black and white technicalities, ie "Yeah, it's illegal, so there." If you go, you will find out which, and maybe you will win. If your time is worth less than $120 for a couple hours spent waiting, then why not? There's no penalty that I know of. You have a right to fight it.

By: Gungho

Gungho — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:48:50 -0800

Do NOT PLEAD Guilty. if you do anything at all talk to the judge (or hearing officer) about pleading no contest such that you will pay the fine, but it won't show up on your record.

By: blind.wombat

blind.wombat — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:50:19 -0800

yep, illegal. not sure what state you are in, but here's the relevant law in Michigan.

By: sanka

sanka — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:12:31 -0800

My Dad used to call people who did that "Esso Assholes", since they always cut through the Esso station on a corner in my hometown.

By: Myself

Myself — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:46:50 -0800

I'm not alone on wishing ill to people who use private property to avoid a traffic control device, yay!

There's always a chance the cop won't show up and it'll be dropped entirely. Otherwise, you're likely to walk away with a shiny new copy of "what every driver must know" and a dose of shame, and a reduced fine for your honesty.

I recently got an 83/65+laneuse ticket dropped to "impeding traffic" just by writing to the magistrate and asking for it. Call the court and see what your options are.

By: melangell

melangell — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:49:54 -0800

Thanks for the responses, everyone. My co-workers agree that I should pay it since I don't have any real excuse. Apparently, if I go to court and lose, I will also have to pay court costs. A bit of an expensive lesson, but I guess that I am grateful to have been caught for this, which I didn't realize was illegal, rather than for all the times I have sped down that same street, which I knew perfectly well was totally illegal!

By: Slothrop

Slothrop — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:04:42 -0800

There's a good reason it's illegal, too. I live two doors down from a gas station and cross past it using the sidewalks on my way into downtown. People cutting through the parking lot looking to avoid traffic flow would be moving more quickly and with less space awareness than the people who zoom in for gas or snacks. It sounds like you've given this some good thought - I wish everyone understood how incredibly dangerous cars are.

By: infinityjinx

infinityjinx — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:28:16 -0800

I would just like to chime in and say that a few months ago I was pulled over and ticketed for this exact reason. However, I had NOT even cut through the gas station I was accused of cutting through. I was simply driving home, in no rush and not doing anything illegal.

My court date is in November. As a piggyback, any tips on convincing the judge I didn't even remotely commit this crime? [I didn't!!!!!!!!!!!]

By: craven_morhead

craven_morhead — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:33:03 -0800

IANAL(yet)

Ignorance of a law is no defense.

The general program, if you were to show up for your court date, would be that you would be read your rights, and then given the option to talk to a prosecutor. The prosecutor will offer you a deal, which will likely be measurably better than the $120 + record blemish that paying the ticket would get you. Take the deal that's offered, but be sure to ask questions regarding points on your record, what parts of your record will be visible, etc.

Don't take it to trial. They'll prosecute, and you'll lose. The consideration, then, is whether the lessened fine or smaller blemish on your record is worth a half day of your time.

By: doorsfan

doorsfan — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:34:21 -0800

infinityjinx

Can you talk to the owner of the lot you are accused of cutting through? I doubt they would remember anything but a witness should be able to prove your innocence.

By: desuetude

desuetude — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:50:14 -0800

I think that a $120 fine, if it wasn't reckless driving in any way, is a bit high. Go to court and be contrite -- you can probably get the fine reduced.

By: domino

domino — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:09:34 -0800

one thing about going to court, you may waste $120.00 worth of time whether you get out of the ticket or not.

it is common here to get a suspended sentence and not have to pay your ticket unless you have another offense in a set period of time. it is also common to wait about 3 hours amongst very loverly folks for such a decision.

By: C17H19NO3

C17H19NO3 — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:20:32 -0800

The general program, if you were to show up for your court date, would be that you would be read your rights, and then given the option to talk to a prosecutor. The prosecutor will offer you a deal, which will likely be measurably better than the $120 + record blemish that paying the ticket would get you. Take the deal that's offered, but be sure to ask questions regarding points on your record, what parts of your record will be visible, etc.

Don't take it to trial. They'll prosecute, and you'll lose. The consideration, then, is whether the lessened fine or smaller blemish on your record is worth a half day of your time.

IAALEO

Unless things are different in your state, a motor vehicle incident such as this is a civil violation and not a criminal matter. In my state traffic court consists of a judicial officer, the police officer, and the defendant.

If you decide to take it to court, try speaking with the police officer before the hearing. He may request the court to lower the fine amount or amend the ticket. Whatever happens, if you are found guilty pay your fine. If paying in full is a burden, the judicial bureau (or whatever it is called in your state) can set up a payment plan.

There also is no statute in my state against avoiding traffic control devices.

By: katillathehun

katillathehun — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:04:02 -0800

Huh. Wow. I didn't know this was illegal, either, and I do it every single day thanks to construction cutting off access to the freeway from my direction.

I'm starting a Parking Lot Riderz club. We'll have matching jackets. You in?

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:10:03 -0800

When I challenged a ticket, I had to pay $45 in court processing fees in addition to the fees for the ticket. Are you willing to pay $165, instead of $120?

By: schnee

schnee — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:10:50 -0800

Also? Pleading "no contest" still shows up on your record.

By: Rash

Rash — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:21:58 -0800

In traffic school in California the CHP instructor told us evading a traffic light by cutting through a parking lot is NOT illegal, as long as you don't exceed the (low) speed limit in there, and signal at every turn.

I assume drivers who get in trouble cutting through don't follow these instructions, to the letter. (I do, and have never been apprehended for it.)

I can't tell your location from your profile, melangell, but I'd love to know exactly what charge was specified, on your $120 ticket.

By: Martin E.

Martin E. — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:25:35 -0800

I've been to traffic court in three different cities/towns in the same state, and the routine has been just a little different each time. In one, the prosecutor made all the deals before the real court started. In others, everyone had their moment before the judge to fight or be contrite. But the general rule is, yes, you show up, say you're sorry, and if you have a clean record you get a standard deal (reduction or preferred judgment). There will be someone answering phones or at a front desk at the courthouse the ticket tells you to go to who can tell you when to show up and who to speak to about a reduction.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:25:51 -0800

Listener writes "In Canada, the principle is that such behaviour is not a 'marked departure from the norm' ie that people do this sometimes. The trick is, did you do it wildly, recklessly, at high speed? Did you get in anyone's way. Was there any obvious risk caused by what you did? If not, I would argue that, and you might win, especially if the cop doesn't show up. "

Good luck with that, at least in BC. My experience (though I've never got a ticket for this) is that the reason cops are handing out tickets for this infraction is because either there was a recent accident caused by shortcutting or the owner has complained about people shortcutting.

By: JimN2TAW

JimN2TAW — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:36:13 -0800

"an 83/65+laneuse ticket"

Huh?

By: The Deej

The Deej — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:51:34 -0800

Pay up, suckah!

Yes, it's illegal in every place I have lived. It's avoiding a traffic control device, or something like that.

Rich Hall had a Sniglet for someone who cuts through a gas station in order to avoid a red light: Esso Asso.

By: winston

winston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:19:19 -0800

In Canada, the principle is that such behaviour is not a 'marked departure from the norm' ie that people do this sometimes. The trick is, did you do it wildly, recklessly, at high speed? Did you get in anyone's way.

Do you have a specific citation for this and how it applies to traffic law? What makes the norm? If one person of every 100 runs the red light at an intersection, does that mean it's not illegal to run the light anymore?

In any case, this is illegal everywhere or there wouldn't be much point in putting up the traffic lights. And melangell, when speaking to the officer, confirmed that she did commit the offence. If it's going to have a significant effect on your insurance then see what you can do about having the charges reduced (remembering that they can easily convict you of what you're charged with) but otherwise, your time is worth way more than the few dollars you'd knock off the fine.

By: winston

winston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:20:14 -0800

(oops -- "you" in the first paragraph is not the same person as "you" in the second paragraph)