My dog is leaking.
September 20, 2007 11:24 PM Subscribe
After working at home for a long time, now I have to work 10 hour days in an office temporarily. Since she's used to spending a lot of quality time with me, my dog is not in favor of this schedule and after a month of patience she's voiced her disapproval by becoming a little peeing machine. Advice please.
I take my puppy out in the morning, leave for work at 10am, my downstairs neighbor walks her and plays with her in the afternoon, and then I come home at around 9-10pm (late, I know). She behaved perfectly for the first month. Just an angel. Now? She's angry at me and I don't blame her.
When I'm working with other clients, I'll take her to dog daycare at least a few times a week to get worn out & that works perfectly. A tired dog is definitely a good dog & with that schedule she's always been perfect on the days when I leave her home alone. My current client is far away and I don't get off work until after the dog place closes, though. My downstairs neighbor is helping me, but apparently that's not good enough.
In the year & a half I've had her she's been perfectly housetrained, but last week she actually woke up before me just to go into the living room and pee while I slept. In the past, she's always gone to the bathroom right away when I take her out in the morning, but lately she's decided to sunbathe instead... absolutely refused to go to the bathroom. Today she went to the bathroom before I left, but still... it doesn't matter if she goes or not anymore because by the time my neighbor gets here to take her out there's pee on the living room floor. It's really grossing me out & it's not my dog's normal behavior AT ALL. (She's also chewed up a few things, but it's very minimal compared to other dogs I've had.)
I crated Zoe when I first got her, but I never left her alone inside of it without me being here. She had separation issues because she was a homeless dog, and now I'm afraid she'll panic and freak out if I suddenly leave her in the crate alone all day. She's just never been in there for that long, especially when I'm not here.
I know this is a temporary problem -- I don't plan to leave her home alone this much in the future once I'm done with this client. But I need to finish my commitment. I bought pads for the floor today, but she's smart & I'm afraid that she's just going to pee around them to tick me off. I don't want my whole house to smell bad & I don't want my landlord's beautiful hardwood floors ruined by her. I'm just SOOOO tired of mopping up pee every night after work. It's awful.
Have you had a dog do this? Any suggestions on how to get to the other side of it or maybe make her stop? She's a really great dog and I'm trying to give her all the attention I can, but I have to burn the candle at both ends for the time being whether my dog likes it or not.
I take my puppy out in the morning, leave for work at 10am, my downstairs neighbor walks her and plays with her in the afternoon, and then I come home at around 9-10pm (late, I know). She behaved perfectly for the first month. Just an angel. Now? She's angry at me and I don't blame her.
When I'm working with other clients, I'll take her to dog daycare at least a few times a week to get worn out & that works perfectly. A tired dog is definitely a good dog & with that schedule she's always been perfect on the days when I leave her home alone. My current client is far away and I don't get off work until after the dog place closes, though. My downstairs neighbor is helping me, but apparently that's not good enough.
In the year & a half I've had her she's been perfectly housetrained, but last week she actually woke up before me just to go into the living room and pee while I slept. In the past, she's always gone to the bathroom right away when I take her out in the morning, but lately she's decided to sunbathe instead... absolutely refused to go to the bathroom. Today she went to the bathroom before I left, but still... it doesn't matter if she goes or not anymore because by the time my neighbor gets here to take her out there's pee on the living room floor. It's really grossing me out & it's not my dog's normal behavior AT ALL. (She's also chewed up a few things, but it's very minimal compared to other dogs I've had.)
I crated Zoe when I first got her, but I never left her alone inside of it without me being here. She had separation issues because she was a homeless dog, and now I'm afraid she'll panic and freak out if I suddenly leave her in the crate alone all day. She's just never been in there for that long, especially when I'm not here.
I know this is a temporary problem -- I don't plan to leave her home alone this much in the future once I'm done with this client. But I need to finish my commitment. I bought pads for the floor today, but she's smart & I'm afraid that she's just going to pee around them to tick me off. I don't want my whole house to smell bad & I don't want my landlord's beautiful hardwood floors ruined by her. I'm just SOOOO tired of mopping up pee every night after work. It's awful.
Have you had a dog do this? Any suggestions on how to get to the other side of it or maybe make her stop? She's a really great dog and I'm trying to give her all the attention I can, but I have to burn the candle at both ends for the time being whether my dog likes it or not.
Response by poster: She's got a lot of allergies, but no health issues are causing this... I'm pretty sure of that. She didn't pee in the house all weekend, I tried to spend a lot of time with her & she was absolutely fine & super happy. And I KNOW for a fact that she can hold it a lot longer than 3 hours... she has done so many times over the last year. Peeing was never an issue before she started missing me.
posted by miss lynnster at 11:54 PM on September 20, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 11:54 PM on September 20, 2007
Whenever I say these kinds of things it usually doesn't go over well with dog owners, but I live with two awesome dogs that I love very much, so understand that I'm not trying to diminish or downplay your relationship with your dog here.
Dogs are not little people. She's not mad at you for leaving her, she's not peeing out of spite. Especially considering that she was "good" for a month, which is plenty of time for her to adjust to your new schedule. It sounds to me like something threw her off slightly, and it has snowballed into a bigger problem. It's possible that once she had one accident, it reinforced the behavior of going inside, and because of your schedule, you havent been able to replace that behavior.
I'm not too sure of your dog's temperament, so it's hard to say exactly what to do, but I can offer an example of a similar problem with one of our dogs. One of our dogs would sleep with my roommate through the night, and wait until she was let out in the morning to do her business. Then all of a sudden she started waking up in the night and peeing in the house. After a few nights of this, The dog decided completely of her own volition to start sleeping on the couch in the living room, and once again slept through the night, no more peeing. Not really sure what the deal was there, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't to chastise him for his snoring.
posted by billyfleetwood at 12:42 AM on September 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Dogs are not little people. She's not mad at you for leaving her, she's not peeing out of spite. Especially considering that she was "good" for a month, which is plenty of time for her to adjust to your new schedule. It sounds to me like something threw her off slightly, and it has snowballed into a bigger problem. It's possible that once she had one accident, it reinforced the behavior of going inside, and because of your schedule, you havent been able to replace that behavior.
I'm not too sure of your dog's temperament, so it's hard to say exactly what to do, but I can offer an example of a similar problem with one of our dogs. One of our dogs would sleep with my roommate through the night, and wait until she was let out in the morning to do her business. Then all of a sudden she started waking up in the night and peeing in the house. After a few nights of this, The dog decided completely of her own volition to start sleeping on the couch in the living room, and once again slept through the night, no more peeing. Not really sure what the deal was there, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't to chastise him for his snoring.
posted by billyfleetwood at 12:42 AM on September 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Also from looking at your followup comment, it might be possible that she's peeing out of excitement right before you come in. Our dogs can tell when one of us is coming home minutes before we hit the door, and can hear my roommates motorcycle from blocks away. To be honest, any motorcycle within their earshot is grounds for celebration. If my roommate is standing right next to them and they hear a motorcycle, he gets a big welcome home anyway.
posted by billyfleetwood at 12:56 AM on September 21, 2007
posted by billyfleetwood at 12:56 AM on September 21, 2007
Yeah, I wonder if you should have a vet look at her, just to be sure. I've only met a couple of dogs that I thought would be smart enough to 'take revenge' like that; they do exist, but I don't think they're very common. And a month is a long delay to start getting mad.
If she checks out okay at the vet, you might be able to start crate-training her by putting her in it at night, next to your bed. That would have the happy side-effect of stopping the morning living room pee runs. After a week or so of that, you could start putting her in it for short trips away from the house, and then graduate her to full crating while you're away. I've never owned a crate-trained dog, but everyone insists they like it, so maybe it's worth a try?
posted by Malor at 1:12 AM on September 21, 2007
If she checks out okay at the vet, you might be able to start crate-training her by putting her in it at night, next to your bed. That would have the happy side-effect of stopping the morning living room pee runs. After a week or so of that, you could start putting her in it for short trips away from the house, and then graduate her to full crating while you're away. I've never owned a crate-trained dog, but everyone insists they like it, so maybe it's worth a try?
posted by Malor at 1:12 AM on September 21, 2007
She's not doing it to tick you off. It's possible she's stressed and that's making her urinate more often, or that it relieves stress.
But she wouldn't piss on something to annoy you, unless she's deeply crazy, for the simple reason that dogs think piss is wonderful. Peeing on the floor to annoy you would be like giving you chocolate to annoy you.
Urinating is self-reinforcing behavior -- it's its own reward. So once they start going in the house, it can be hard to remind them that, no, we go outside. He says, muttering darkly about the new puppy.
You could try:
Getting up earlier, taking her out, and utterly refusing to bring her back in until she goes. And then it's treat city and effusive praise, like back in the housebreaking days.
Also, are you hitting the spots with Nature's Miracle or another enzymatic cleaner that eliminates the odors that scream I IS A TOILET to dogs?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:24 AM on September 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
But she wouldn't piss on something to annoy you, unless she's deeply crazy, for the simple reason that dogs think piss is wonderful. Peeing on the floor to annoy you would be like giving you chocolate to annoy you.
Urinating is self-reinforcing behavior -- it's its own reward. So once they start going in the house, it can be hard to remind them that, no, we go outside. He says, muttering darkly about the new puppy.
You could try:
Getting up earlier, taking her out, and utterly refusing to bring her back in until she goes. And then it's treat city and effusive praise, like back in the housebreaking days.
Also, are you hitting the spots with Nature's Miracle or another enzymatic cleaner that eliminates the odors that scream I IS A TOILET to dogs?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:24 AM on September 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
First, there is no way for you to determine that this is NOT a medical issue without at very least a vet check and urinalysis. Dogs, especially female dogs, get urinary tract infections, and one of the primary signs of such things is a change in urination habits/housebreaking.
As others have said, she is not "mad at" you. When you take her out to pee, do you turn around and bring her in right away when she's done taking care of business, or do you actually take her for a decent walk? If it's a "business trip" and outside time is over once peeing/defecating is done, you are basically punishing her for urinating right away, you need to spend some time with her outside, and ideally you should get up earlier and actually take her for a decent walk (if you aren't already).
Get rid of the pads, the bathroom is outside and making it easier for her to go inside is just going to confuse her. Your first step, before you do anything else, is to take her to the vet to make sure that this isn't a UTI, spay incontinence, or anything medical. Treating a medical problem as a behavioural issue is unfair and doomed to failure. Second, you need to arrange to have her taken out more often during the day. If she is determined by a vet (via at very least a urinalysis) not to have a medical reason for this, then you need to re-housetrain her (someone needs to come in and take her out every few hours) and work on ways to reduce her stress while you are gone (a good long walk with some fun training along the way before you leave is part of that, a physically and mentally tired dog has less energy to worry with). It is not unusual for dogs to regress in housetraining once in a while, especially if they have basically been trained to NOT be housetrained and/or if they are developing separation anxiety, which is what may have inadvertently happened here.
But please, she is not doing this with conscious intent to spite or annoy you, she is doing this either because she cannot physically help it, because of stress, or because she has had some reason to regress in her housetraining. After she is vet checked, can you arrange doggy day care for her for the rest of this job?
posted by biscotti at 5:10 AM on September 21, 2007
As others have said, she is not "mad at" you. When you take her out to pee, do you turn around and bring her in right away when she's done taking care of business, or do you actually take her for a decent walk? If it's a "business trip" and outside time is over once peeing/defecating is done, you are basically punishing her for urinating right away, you need to spend some time with her outside, and ideally you should get up earlier and actually take her for a decent walk (if you aren't already).
Get rid of the pads, the bathroom is outside and making it easier for her to go inside is just going to confuse her. Your first step, before you do anything else, is to take her to the vet to make sure that this isn't a UTI, spay incontinence, or anything medical. Treating a medical problem as a behavioural issue is unfair and doomed to failure. Second, you need to arrange to have her taken out more often during the day. If she is determined by a vet (via at very least a urinalysis) not to have a medical reason for this, then you need to re-housetrain her (someone needs to come in and take her out every few hours) and work on ways to reduce her stress while you are gone (a good long walk with some fun training along the way before you leave is part of that, a physically and mentally tired dog has less energy to worry with). It is not unusual for dogs to regress in housetraining once in a while, especially if they have basically been trained to NOT be housetrained and/or if they are developing separation anxiety, which is what may have inadvertently happened here.
But please, she is not doing this with conscious intent to spite or annoy you, she is doing this either because she cannot physically help it, because of stress, or because she has had some reason to regress in her housetraining. After she is vet checked, can you arrange doggy day care for her for the rest of this job?
posted by biscotti at 5:10 AM on September 21, 2007
If a crate wouldn't work, how about a baby gate limiting her to a smaller portion of the house? Our dog is limited by a baby gate at night because she likes to do the sneaking away and peeing in another room thing - we keep her in the bedroom with us. During the day, she has slightly more room (bedroom + kitchen + hallway) but is still kept out of the rest of the apartment.
For my dog, a big part of it was stress + lack of routine. When I first got her I was living alone and working as a temp with pretty inconsistent hours. She is a retired greyhound, and she had lived with a stay-at-home foster mom and several other greyhounds in the suburbs. Then it was suddenly just me and a one bedroom apartment in the city. She peed Every. Time. I. Left. for weeks. Didn't matter if I was only gone for an hour, there was pee. I crated her, but she still peed and I just had to clean up a stinky dog and a stinky crate, so that's when I switched to the baby gate.
Strangely enough, getting a job with longer hours but a more consistent routine is (I think) what did it. 6 weeks after coming home to a mess every single day, she just stopped.
I'll admit she still has her bad days. But it always starts when the normal routine is broken, and a few days back on schedule sets her straight again. It's frustrating sometimes, but mostly she's so wonderful I've decided she's worth having to clean up after once in a while.
posted by misskaz at 6:11 AM on September 21, 2007
For my dog, a big part of it was stress + lack of routine. When I first got her I was living alone and working as a temp with pretty inconsistent hours. She is a retired greyhound, and she had lived with a stay-at-home foster mom and several other greyhounds in the suburbs. Then it was suddenly just me and a one bedroom apartment in the city. She peed Every. Time. I. Left. for weeks. Didn't matter if I was only gone for an hour, there was pee. I crated her, but she still peed and I just had to clean up a stinky dog and a stinky crate, so that's when I switched to the baby gate.
Strangely enough, getting a job with longer hours but a more consistent routine is (I think) what did it. 6 weeks after coming home to a mess every single day, she just stopped.
I'll admit she still has her bad days. But it always starts when the normal routine is broken, and a few days back on schedule sets her straight again. It's frustrating sometimes, but mostly she's so wonderful I've decided she's worth having to clean up after once in a while.
posted by misskaz at 6:11 AM on September 21, 2007
I once heard a dog trainer say that often dogs will pee (&/or poop) inside when lonely or missing their family or other dog because, to them, it's their most powerful way of signalling you. The pee is an attempt to send a message - "Hey, where are you? If you're looking for me I'm over here!!!!!" The dog doesn't have any clue you aren't looking for her too.
I agree with crate-training, but it may take more time than you've got now. A good insurance policy for the future though.
Meanwhile, maybe find a dog-sitter until your work gig is over and you can go back to your old routine.
posted by pammo at 7:12 AM on September 21, 2007
I agree with crate-training, but it may take more time than you've got now. A good insurance policy for the future though.
Meanwhile, maybe find a dog-sitter until your work gig is over and you can go back to your old routine.
posted by pammo at 7:12 AM on September 21, 2007
I agree with babygates, if possible. Our dog would pee in the dining room or living room, when only left alone for an hour. But, when gated in the kitchen/breakfast nook, she will hold it for as long as needed. Attempting to crate train her, even as a tiny pup, was a miserable exprerience, it just doesn't work for some dogs.
I've also found that paying as little attention as possible to her, while walking out the door and coming back home, seems to help her anxiety (ie barking, jumping, generally going nuts). I don't talk while I put up the gates and give her a simple pat on the head/good girl; then I shut and lock the door. When I come home, I don't pet her until she has gone outside and has had her dinner. She is generally chill through both routines. She is so into this routine that all exits and entrances to the house, that do not involve her, must go through the back door. Otherwise, she goes nuts, because clearly we are off to have fun without her and she wants the whole neighborhood to know how mean we truly are.
Aside: My dog must be one of the super smart ones that understands revenge, or at least the dog version. As a pup, when given the oppourtunity (and I do take responsiblity) she would destroy any shoes we wore to work shoes, but wouldn't even look at the sneakers and hiking boots that were worn on trips with her.
posted by wg at 7:41 AM on September 21, 2007
I've also found that paying as little attention as possible to her, while walking out the door and coming back home, seems to help her anxiety (ie barking, jumping, generally going nuts). I don't talk while I put up the gates and give her a simple pat on the head/good girl; then I shut and lock the door. When I come home, I don't pet her until she has gone outside and has had her dinner. She is generally chill through both routines. She is so into this routine that all exits and entrances to the house, that do not involve her, must go through the back door. Otherwise, she goes nuts, because clearly we are off to have fun without her and she wants the whole neighborhood to know how mean we truly are.
Aside: My dog must be one of the super smart ones that understands revenge, or at least the dog version. As a pup, when given the oppourtunity (and I do take responsiblity) she would destroy any shoes we wore to work shoes, but wouldn't even look at the sneakers and hiking boots that were worn on trips with her.
posted by wg at 7:41 AM on September 21, 2007
I second using Nature's Miracle to clean up the floor after you mop up the pee, because if your pup can smell where she's gone before, she'll think that she's supposed to go there (I love the stuff - it's a gift when you're house training a puppy!). I also agree with re-crating her or using pet gates to limit her access to a smaller part of your home. Barring any medical problems, it sounds like she has some pretty bad separation anxiety issues, and is probably pretty confused. Using a kennel or gate would give her a sort of den, and perhaps help her to feel a little safer since she can't be with you all the time right now.
I feel for you! I'm sure that you'll work out a solution, though. Dogs want to please us, so as soon as you can find a routine that she can get behind, you'll both feel better.
posted by mewithoutyou at 8:14 AM on September 21, 2007
I feel for you! I'm sure that you'll work out a solution, though. Dogs want to please us, so as soon as you can find a routine that she can get behind, you'll both feel better.
posted by mewithoutyou at 8:14 AM on September 21, 2007
Response by poster: Well she's been to the vet a bunch, so I know that other than allergies she's fine. And I'm confident it is from loneliness because this has been a MAJOR change in routine for her. When I leave the house she has gone from bouncing around happily at my feet to lying on the bed with her ears back. She basically will refuse to get off the bed so that I can close up the bedroom door. When I call her she just stares at me and I have to physically pick her up and put her in the living room.
And she LOVES my downstairs neighbor, but when she comes to walk her, Zoe looks at her like, "Oh. It's you again. You're not the person I'm waiting for." but if my neighbor comes over when I'm home Zoe goes apeshit as though she hasn't seen her in decades and she's covered in Alpo or something.
Poor little thing's all messed up.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:46 AM on September 21, 2007
And she LOVES my downstairs neighbor, but when she comes to walk her, Zoe looks at her like, "Oh. It's you again. You're not the person I'm waiting for." but if my neighbor comes over when I'm home Zoe goes apeshit as though she hasn't seen her in decades and she's covered in Alpo or something.
Poor little thing's all messed up.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:46 AM on September 21, 2007
Response by poster: Oh, and when I tried a gate she jumped over it. I tried three of them, and she just didn't like that plan at all.
She's very springy.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:48 AM on September 21, 2007
She's very springy.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:48 AM on September 21, 2007
Response by poster: And for those of you who haven't seen her, this is the little monster we're talking about.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:49 AM on September 21, 2007
posted by miss lynnster at 8:49 AM on September 21, 2007
If she is peeing right before you come in (because she is excited to see you), you might try calmly saying "Hi!" and then moving away from her. Ignore her for 10mins or so before giving her the petting, treat-bestowing, etc treatment. The idea is to lower her expectations regarding your arrival.
Sometimes, dogs with separation issues can be reassured by getting some quiet time with you just before you leave. Sit down near your dog and just sit quietly. If the dog jumps on you or begs for attention, give as little as you can and then return to quiet sitting. After about 20mins of this, get up and quickly leave the house.
I would also try to ensure that the dog has things to keep her busy while you are gone. Do you leave a nice treat-stuffed Kong or Buster Box? Do you leave a radio or TV on quietly so the dog feels like people are near by?
Just a few suggestions. Good luck!
posted by driley at 11:13 AM on September 21, 2007
Sometimes, dogs with separation issues can be reassured by getting some quiet time with you just before you leave. Sit down near your dog and just sit quietly. If the dog jumps on you or begs for attention, give as little as you can and then return to quiet sitting. After about 20mins of this, get up and quickly leave the house.
I would also try to ensure that the dog has things to keep her busy while you are gone. Do you leave a nice treat-stuffed Kong or Buster Box? Do you leave a radio or TV on quietly so the dog feels like people are near by?
Just a few suggestions. Good luck!
posted by driley at 11:13 AM on September 21, 2007
She's adorable! I think she is definitely communicating with you with the peeing. Although she may not be "spiteful," she's obviously not happy with the situation.
You might not want to hear it, but I think the best, fastest working solution would be for you to get up 45 minutes earlier and take her for a long walk. You could cut it down to half an hour if you give her a little weighted pack or if you run with her, but you need to tire her out first thing in the morning. It's the closest thing to a miracle cure for dog behavioral issues you can find. It's like the canine Feliway.
All assuming it isn't a medical issue.
posted by emyd at 11:31 AM on September 21, 2007
You might not want to hear it, but I think the best, fastest working solution would be for you to get up 45 minutes earlier and take her for a long walk. You could cut it down to half an hour if you give her a little weighted pack or if you run with her, but you need to tire her out first thing in the morning. It's the closest thing to a miracle cure for dog behavioral issues you can find. It's like the canine Feliway.
All assuming it isn't a medical issue.
posted by emyd at 11:31 AM on September 21, 2007
Oh, man. She is so cute!
posted by mewithoutyou at 1:16 PM on September 21, 2007
posted by mewithoutyou at 1:16 PM on September 21, 2007
This article from Slate by the ever-sensible Jon Katz is about a situation much like your own.
posted by bisesi at 5:30 PM on September 21, 2007
posted by bisesi at 5:30 PM on September 21, 2007
Your dog is so cute!
Since the baby gate doesn't work for her, would she feel OK staying in a small room with tile/lino on the floor? I'm thinking maybe the bathroom or something similar, where it's bigger than a crate but still small enough to be enclosed. And the floors aren't likely to be ruined. You could make it cozy by putting her dog bed in there, her food and water dishes, and some toys and maybe treats. She might feel more secure and less anxious in a slightly more confined space. (Counterintuitive, but I've been told cats often feel this way. Who knows, maybe dogs do too!)
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:16 PM on September 21, 2007
Since the baby gate doesn't work for her, would she feel OK staying in a small room with tile/lino on the floor? I'm thinking maybe the bathroom or something similar, where it's bigger than a crate but still small enough to be enclosed. And the floors aren't likely to be ruined. You could make it cozy by putting her dog bed in there, her food and water dishes, and some toys and maybe treats. She might feel more secure and less anxious in a slightly more confined space. (Counterintuitive, but I've been told cats often feel this way. Who knows, maybe dogs do too!)
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:16 PM on September 21, 2007
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but isn't there some way you could just take her with you to work?
posted by all-one-heart at 9:01 AM on September 25, 2007
posted by all-one-heart at 9:01 AM on September 25, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
That said, dogs are pretty forgiving animals. Some extra time on the weekends, devoted to them, can make a big difference when you are away a lot during the week. My boy and I do long walks, and go to the beach, and have special treats, and play "ball" until he's exhausted, on weekends following weeks I've been out a lot more than usual.
It makes a big difference in how a dog acts, the following week, I find. It's usually about Wednesday before he gets really uppity again.
posted by paulsc at 11:39 PM on September 20, 2007