“When the student is ready, the teacher will appear”

September 16, 2007 9:24 PM

How can an older college student integrate with younger classmates?

This Wednesday, I'm going back to college for a second bachelor's. (Islamic Studies) I'm in my early 30s, and while I'm prepared for the academic part, I'm a little nervous about looking like the "old bag" of the class - particularly after reading an article in the local newspaper about the clash between older and younger students.

What I got from the article :

1. Don't monopolize the class with personal anecdotes about my extensive work/life history.
2. Don't roll my eyes/argue when another student complains that a test question wasn't specifically mentioned in the study guide, though it was part of the reading material.

Does anyone have any experience with this situation? I'm not great at making friends, in fact, I'm a little bit shy - so asking people out after class for coffee or whatever is outside my comfort zone. I don't want to be popular or anything - I'd just like to feel like I fit in, and not absolutely dread "group work." All suggestions/advice will be greatly appreciated.

posted by Liosliath to human relations (51 comments total)

I attempted to be friendly with "mature" students when I was in my undergrad. Eventually, I started steering clear of them, because I found myself being attacked. Many mature students have some sort of beef with students of traditional age and will berate/mock them for having fewer responsibilities and life experiences. However, since I was paying my own way, living on my own, and so on, I was irritated. So I think it's important to be respectful of your classmates (no matter what your age or situation) and to be friendly. I don't think you need to ask people out for coffee, if that's not your thing, but you might sometimes accept an invitation to go for coffee. And you can say hi to people when you pass them on campus. Stuff like that.

The friends I have who were mature students seemed to have the greatest success when they harboured no resentment toward younger students, occasionally (or even frequently) accepted social invitations, and learned how to type and use a computer to send email and write up group projects. Most schools have free or inexpensive MS Office tutorials, so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

But the fact that you're even thinking about these things and asking for advice suggests to me that you're going to do okay.
posted by acoutu at 9:36 PM on September 16, 2007

I wouldn't put you in the "old" category if you are only in your early 30's, I'd say more the older sibling category. However, I can tell you a few things that drove me insane with the older students in my classes (and by old I mean late 40's and 50's).

- Don't become the professor's best friend.

- Piggybacking on the last one, don't seek out special treatment from the professor. (it's amazing how professors give so much more leeway for older students, just because they view them as being a peer rather than a student) This rightfully causes a lot of resentment.

- Don't talk down to the younger students.

- If you do a lot of outside, non required reading, that's great, however don't go on and on about it in class and/or use it to suck up to the professor (or if you want to do this, do it during office hours).

That's all I can think of right now. You really aren't that much older than the other students, I think if you just treat them like human beings you'll be fine. I've gone to school with some cool older students, they didn't exactly come to the keggers, but they definitely joined everyone for a drink after class or something similar.
posted by whoaali at 9:39 PM on September 16, 2007

- Try organizing a study group for a major exam in one of your classes.
- Don't pretend to be younger than you are.
posted by Ø at 9:41 PM on September 16, 2007

Is it a large or small school -- ie will you mostly be inlarge lecture classes for the first semester, or will you have some smaller seminar, 15-people-sit-around-the-table type classes?

Either way I think you'll be fine.

You are probably much more socially skilled than traditional age college students. For example I'm guessing that if you're assigned to a group of 4 people you will be able to introduce yourself without mumbling, and actually make eye contact.

In large classes: There's no expectation whatsoever that you will get to know others in the class. Some students will know each other from the dorms, some won't know anyone in the class. You might learn the names of a couple of people who sit near you, but unless it's super-hard and you form a study group, there will probably not be too much "hey let's grab coffee" -- unless you really hit it off with someone.

There will probably be other older students on campus; there's probably an office for them or a dean who specifically deals with them. Meet them (the dean and the older students). You will probably have a lot more to talk about with the other students who are closer to your age.

Talk to the prof. We have office hours, which are really, truly a time when we just sit around waiting for someone to come by and talk. Traditional-age students rarely take advantage of this unless there's an assignment due. But if you're actually interested in the subject matter, drop by and chat. Also if you find you're having trouble definitely go to office hours or make an appointment to see the prof. Most will be really eager to help.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:43 PM on September 16, 2007

Does the program have any sort of student organization associated with it? Something that, say, brings in guest speakers for a colloquium or two, has professional development workshops, perhaps offers the occasional social gathering for the department? If it does, by all means take advantage of it. From current experience I've found that such things help immensely - I'm pretty danged shy, too, but by getting involved with my classmates outside of class we've all gotten to know each other more as people rather than random bodies taking up seats in class, and that makes all the difference in the world (I, too, am in my early 30s and though the program I'm in is a grad program rather than a bachelor's, most of my classmates are in their early to mid 20s so the situation's probably similar). Nothing makes a person more comfortable to be around (for me, anyway), than going out for drinks / coffee / movies / etc with 'em - even if you have to 'force' yourself the first few times, eventually it gets easier and more enjoyable.

(And fwiw, I'd DOUBLY endorse that #1 point from that newspaper article, though I'd extend it even further to "don't monopolize the class," period. As an undergrad I had a number of classes with this one woman in her early 40s who couldn't let a comment from the professor slide by without needing to expound upon it, ask questions, etc. It was excessive to the point of being painful. Of course classes are for discussion and questions but there is a point at which - no matter how good your comments are - it's time to scale it back a bit, be mindful of other folks, and take some of your comments to your professor's office or email)
posted by zeph at 9:43 PM on September 16, 2007

At 32 I did some undergrad work with students that were mostly juniors and seniors... and was rather shocked to discover that I "passed" as one of them. It wasn't a big deal at all. My only wisdom is about going for that drink with them -- I had forgotten that undergrads always start with shots, so I miscounted my drinks (forgetting the shots) and got too drunk.
posted by xo at 9:45 PM on September 16, 2007

Also, like acoutu said, the bad rap older students get is often because they have a major chip on their shoulder. From my experience the bad ones either were going through some hardship (kids, divorce, unsupportive spouse, career disaster), had a cause that they pushed at any and all opportunities (and openly showed their disdain for those that didn't share their passion for preserving x,y or z), or were retired/independently wealthy and were just taking a class or two a semester for fun.

Sorry to rant, I was an art history major and for some reason 50 year old divorced women looking to go back to school are attracted to it like none other.
posted by whoaali at 9:48 PM on September 16, 2007

I was a little older when I went to college, there was about five years of difference in age between me and most of the other students. A few things I noticed...

I end up leading most of the work groups regardless of whether I want to or not.

It's easier to related to the professor, which to me is more important than being able to relate to fellow students.

In general, age isn't much of an issue as soon as fellow student realize that you're going to treat them as equals, rather than children.

If you really needed those two pieces of advice from the newspaper, no amount of advice here can help you.
posted by 517 at 9:49 PM on September 16, 2007

I got to know a few older students when I was a traditional-aged college student. I quickly realized that older students were a valuable resource to be cultivated ... they always had great notes and were usually much more on top of the material than those of us who were 21. So, I always welcomed any opportunity to interact with them.

If you're open to interacting with the younger students, I think you can actually help them learn the material.
posted by jayder at 9:51 PM on September 16, 2007

I went to undergrad and grad school as a standard young person, but I hung out with a lot of older students because they seemed to be motivated to kick ass and weren't always hung up on stupid problems that other 19 year-olds seemed to have.

The only time I can recall an older student in class dragging the pace down or annoying me was when someone in their 50s would tell long boring stories barely related to whatever the professor was discussing, in much the same way your original point (1) above states. I've had classes of 60 students where one older student would tell a five minute story in every single class meeting, with the teacher too nice to cut him off each time.
posted by mathowie at 9:54 PM on September 16, 2007

The article you read hit on my biggest pet peeve-- don't drone on about your job or life. Just be sure your comments in class are similar to those of the smart undergrads-- share your life experience only when absolutely relevant and when everyone tends to do so (and never ever share something that takes more than 1 minute to explain).

I'm also shy, btw. The only way I made friends in grad school was to go to social events for the department and to jump into other people's conversations when it seemed ok (i.e., they're talking about HW and I have a question, or they are discussing Project Runway and it seems like an open conversation). Good luck!
posted by parkerjackson at 9:56 PM on September 16, 2007

I'm currently taking a small (~20 students) french class, with two 'mature' students (~40 and ~50). They seem to feel the need to respond to Every. Damn. Point. the professor makes, often with a comment that shows they clearly didn't understand what he was talking about/missed the reference in the original reading (and so think he's wrong). I think it took about an hour in the first lesson for every other student in the class to wish they'd disappear, and most of the time just hearing them speak prompts eyerolls around the room now. I actually laughed out loud when one of them made a stupid comment then tried to back out of it by saying 'oh, well, it just came into my head so I said it'.

Moral: don't say everything that comes into your head, even if it's on topic.
Shameful admission: the next mature age student in a class with me is going to start at a bit of a disadvantage if they remind me of these two ladies at all.
posted by jacalata at 10:00 PM on September 16, 2007 [1 favorite]

Now I feel bad for picking on them, and would like to say that I have had mature-age students in other classes, but I remember the annoying loud ones more than the normal people ones. Just act like a normal person.
posted by jacalata at 10:03 PM on September 16, 2007

Fall semester last year, I was in a freshman/sophomore American history class and there was this older woman, late forties/early fifties in a class of twenty. We just treated her like a student. She was more on the conservative side than most of us liberal young adults and when she showed her support indirectly for Bush while talking about current events, most of the others made a face or snickered at each other. She was not talkative or annoying but she told us a few stories about living through the events we were talking about. It was interesting.

During the summer at my local community college, I took Italian I and we had a few older people including a daughter (who was our age) and mother and another older woman pursuing her degree. It wasn't strange in any way. The mother was a little slow being older and all, but she was well liked in the class.

Now, there was a forty or fifty year old living in the upperclassmate dorms last year. THAT was weird...
posted by daninnj at 10:27 PM on September 16, 2007

STFU is good advice in many situations. But don't worry too much about getting along, worry about learning.
posted by LarryC at 10:34 PM on September 16, 2007

If you want to interact more with a higher average age of students, sign up for after-hours classes where possible. They tend to be heavily biased towards part-time students, who tend to be in their late 20's to 40's, and are part-time for job/family reasons.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 11:01 PM on September 16, 2007

Funny this should come up now; about 4 hours ago I was chatting with one of my lecturers about pretty much this exact thing - triggered by her congratulating me on my results by saying "well done, young man", and me pointing out I was a year older than her ;-)

As a 40 yo 1st year undergrad, I often get the lecturers thanking me for just asking a question or starting a discussion. The kiddies just seem to want to sit there, nod dumbly, and absorb knowledge by osmosis; even though it's half-way through the second semester they haven't yet worked out that that's not enough (as last week's mid-semester results are showing right now...). I don't do it all the time, but if the lecturer is obviously a bit frustrated that people aren't asking questions, I do. I've been around long enough to not care that I might look dumb; there's one advantage of maturity for you!

Frankly, I barely talk to most of my classmates, but that's more because I'm a bit of a loner anyway. I'm happy enough to chat, say g'day, etc, but that's about it^*. I do care about them though (I joke about it being my "fatherly instincts" coming through); and I care about the lecturers - the conversation I mentioned above wandered into me wondering how depressing it must be to see so many do badly in something that should be easy (well, I find it fairly easy...).

(I realise I'm being a bit disparaging with the word "kiddies" but, frankly, they are. They'll grow out of it, I hope, and on some level I look forward to seeing it happening, but right now I'm a little fed up with the childish clique-y crap they play at. I'm not 17, you're not at school anymore, and we're all in this together; grow up!)

I've probably been guilty of the "personal anecdotes about my extensive work/life history" thing, but not too much - I'm always conscious of doing it, kick myself whenever I catch myself doing it, and try to restrict it to extremely short tidbits of direct relevance.

I guess the short, simple answer is "avoid being one of them, y'know, those ones...", but be don't be afraid to speak up a bit to kick things along if needed.

(^* Funny story: I sit/work with a couple of young cuties from another campus in one of my prac classes. That's when the young guys from my campus decide they really do want to talk to me ;-)

(And thank you for giving me an outlet for some much-needed self-therapy!)
posted by Pinback at 11:05 PM on September 16, 2007 [2 favorites]

Us "younger" students don't want to hear you talk about or bring in any type information from outside the classroom, or curriculum. We don't care at all. So I'm seconding the "Just STFU" advice, especially when you feel like adding.. well, anything.
posted by lain at 11:10 PM on September 16, 2007

I'm nthing what everyone has said about monopolizing classtime. You have no idea how many classes I've had where we have one student (or in one of my classes, four students) who talk too much.

I had several classes with this one student who had experience in the field, so he thinks he is on a higher level than anyone else and starts asking questions based on what he thinks we should be learning in the class--everyone hates him and wants to do very, very bad things to him.

In another one of my classes, we were doing practice problems for an upcoming exam, and the solution was ambiguous. We've established if you write down your assumptions, that your answer would probably be correct. We had four older students arguing back and forth for 45 minutes arguing why there answer was correct, and not the solution.

Thank you for being kind enough to ask how to not be that student. If you have to talk, make sure you are contributing to the class discussion while not monopolizing it or sending the class on a tangent, and I think you'll be okay.
posted by toaster at 11:17 PM on September 16, 2007

Just some things I've noticed from mature students:

1. Your extra reading isn't something you need to point out to the class.

2. There isn't a need to let the class know about your past life. You may think it will add to the class but frankly, if it's not in the syllabus and if it's not going to be on the exam, no one is interested.

3. Going through a divorce? Do you have kids our age? Don't tell us about that stuff. It's not necessary.

4. Don't. ask. the. professor. to. repeat. everything. that. is. said. in. a. lecture. so. that. you. can. write. it. down. Borrow the notes from someone beside you if you happen to have blanks.

The best mature students I've shared a class with were the ones that acted just like everyone else. Sat in their seat, took notes, and asked the occasional question. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Sorry if my post sounds a bit cynical - I've had a lot of mature students waste a lot of class time with things that a prof. would call a 20 year old out for but would let slide because they felt uncomfortable telling the 40 year old what to do.

Good luck!
posted by 913 at 12:01 AM on September 17, 2007

Thanks for all the great answers, everyone. I already knew the tips I mentioned (appreciate the concern, 517) but the additional suggestions and reinforcement of the STFU concept is quite valuable. Particulary because at least one of my profs is younger than I (25), and she might be uncomfortable telling me to stuff a sock in it.

If anyone else happens to take a crack at this, a few additional items I should mention:

1. I'm in IT, so I won't have any problem with that end of things. (email, papers, etc...)
2. I don't have any kids, and my marriage is fine.
3. I'm pretty good at casual conversation - Pinback's answer sounds similar to what I'm most like.
posted by Liosliath at 12:12 AM on September 17, 2007

Some students would probably prefer that all other students always STFU all the time. I'm not sure that they should be catered to. As LarryC says, worry more about learning. Just make sure that when you do speak up it is for your own learning, and not because there's some interesting topic you'd like to discuss.
posted by grouse at 2:05 AM on September 17, 2007

On the other hand, don't be that guy.
posted by grouse at 2:06 AM on September 17, 2007

To be fair, a lot of the comments about monopolising conversation, going on about extra reading, talking incessantly about one's personal life etc could apply to any annoying student (and there's always one in a class), regardless of age. I guess that I think it's a bit unfair that annoying mature students are more likely to be remembered than all of the other oh so annoying students that go to university.

My advice would be to relax and participate appropriately. You should ask questions and contribute to discussions; it would be a waste of your money and time not to! And, provided you're paying attention in class, if you have a question it's likely that many other students are wondering the exact same thing. If you have more detailed questions or would like a more detailed explanation of a concept that goes beyond what was covered in class, then office hours would probably be the best forum for that.

In my experience teaching in the humanities, the only problems that I had with mature students specifically were the patronising attitude mentioned above and a defensive attitude (as if the student had something to prove by coming back to university). There are a lot of academic benefits that result from life experience--better writing skills, the ability to pick out the important bits in lectures, an appreciation for a larger picture--so enjoy these and enjoy university life!
posted by lumiere at 2:14 AM on September 17, 2007

Older student (I was 30 back @ school.)

Every complaint here by younger students? Yup they do it. There isn't one that is 'specific' to older students. I've seen younger students try to 'show their worth' by going on about their high school days, argue with professors over correct answers and complain when they get bad grades (invariably because they don't know how to balance life and partying.)

Don't worry about monopolizing the class. You won't do it. A) you're shy. B) you're self aware. Don't forget, you are going for your education.

Items that I saw (and kept my mouth shut on)
Acting appropriate socially, how to deal with conflict, how to have relationships without everyday 'drama.' How to be courteous. How not to be condescending. How to drink without puking.

Just remember they haven't been what you've been through; if they ask for help, then offer it. Even if you see them making a mistake personally, academically, professionally...they need to learn those life lessons on their own, and college is a wonderful place to do so.

Now, I was very focused, and had the following intent. I showed up for class. If I needed extra notes, I made friends. In fact for 'gut' classes, I'd mention to a couple of people that I was looking for a couple of people to study with, and almost always would end up organizing it (just pick a place and a time.) This is terrible - but what I'd do is try to get two people into my study group - a woman who was very attractive (so I'd show up)...and someone who I thought really knew the material (to compel me to stay on my toes.)

I'd stop in and see the instructor personally, early in the term, just to say hi. Nothing beyond that. It was just smart to 'not be another face' in the class....as well as, if I had trouble, I wasn't a stranger.

In class, I always believed in the four count. I'd count to four before I'd raise my hand to answer a question...I'd wait till four more questions went by...and I'd try and ask/answer anything in less than four sentences.

I found that the 'Adult' office, was a decent resource, etc...but I also got involved in groups that interested me.

Just go and enjoy it. And learn.
posted by filmgeek at 5:34 AM on September 17, 2007

Wow, lots of pretty harsh suggestions here from people that clearly have an axe to grind.

College students get easily annoyed by people that they perceive to be "showing off", and for whatever reason, mature students attract more criticism for this than your run-of-the-mill 19 year old windbag who read Finnegan's Wake over the summer and thinks he has the inside track on Joyce. Having a thick skin helps in these situations for sure - my own experience is youth group leadership for college and high school aged people, I have seen quite a bit of this.

Basically consider your own education first, but be mindful, courteous, professional and appropriate. The sensitivity you've demonstrated in posing your question indicates that you shouldn't have any problem with any of these.
posted by psmealey at 5:38 AM on September 17, 2007

I was in this situation a few years ago and here's my take on it: "Mature" students shouldn't worry about what "immature" students want of them. Instead, they should worry about getting the most out of the learning experience. I mean, how often does a mature adult get the opportunity to just learn?

Consider this: developing a friendly relationship with an interesting professor that is so inclined is surely going to be more fruitful* than befriending children who just want you to STFU.


*I became friends with several professors; besides being cool and interesting people, my contact with them has led directly to income-generating work. Definitely take advantage of office hours!
posted by sic at 5:41 AM on September 17, 2007

Just be yourself. Don't be so self conscious about the fact that you are older, and don't assume that the other students will notice or marginalize you for it. If you are in your early 30s, the students most likely won't even notice that you are older. I never noticed that any of my classmates were older until well after I got to know them, and they happened to mention their age. Later, when I went back to school and I was the older student, I was also very aware of my own older age, until I realized that most people didn't notice or care.
Just do your work, answer questions if you want to, but don't monopolize the class time. If the professor is any good, s/he will let you know (gently) if s/he thinks that you are monopolizing the conversation.
Join whatever student organization that might seem interesting to you. If there is an returning student group on campus, join that too. You'll meet plenty of people that way. Some may be interested in getting to know more, and other will not. Also, if there is a graduate program at your school, you might find that you are more interested in hanging out with the grad students.
As for all the comments about about older students being a pain in the butt, ignore them. When one is a visible minority (age, race, gender, etc.), people remember the ways in which that person is different from everyone else, than the ways in which that person (or other examplars of that category) was similar to everyone else.
posted by jujube at 6:16 AM on September 17, 2007

developing a friendly relationship with an interesting professor that is so inclined is surely going to be more fruitful* than befriending children who just want you to STFU.

That sort of condescending and dismissive attitude towards your peers is exactly what you should avoid. And I think it raises a false dichotomy between developing a relationship with the instructor or the students. The undergraduates just might have something to offer as well, even if it is just bodies for your study group.
posted by grouse at 6:21 AM on September 17, 2007

In fairness, grouse, I think s/he was talking about avoiding just the childish students that want you to STFU, not all students. Certainly the vast majority does not fall in this category.
posted by psmealey at 6:37 AM on September 17, 2007

I think that if all you want to do is fit in, just watch what everyone else does and do the same thing. In general, that means quietly taking notes and only occasionally making comments or asking a question. That's what a majority of the students will be doing, if your classes are anything like mine were.

If you feel the need to ask a lot of questions, consider seeing the professor outside of class during their office hours - you'll be able to ask all you want to without the worry of bothering classmates.
posted by mjgrady at 6:40 AM on September 17, 2007

In grad school, I was among the youngest in my class (23-24), and the people who ended up being my best friends were the ones in their early 30s. The ones in their late 20s were really hung up on how young I was for some reason, which prevented them from actually getting to know me. The ones in their early 30s didn't care, they were more interested in me as a person. Personalities obviously play into this alongside age, but the take-home lesson is, treat them as peers, and they'll treat you as a peer. Sure, there'll probably be babies who just want to be lumps sitting in class, but don't assume everyone is like that.
posted by doift at 6:45 AM on September 17, 2007

You are probably right, psmealey; thanks for pointing that out. I still think referring to even your childish peers as children will alienate the others.
posted by grouse at 6:53 AM on September 17, 2007

Grouse: yeah, I guess that did sound a bit condescending, but I am a bit irritated by posters suggesting that students should just STFU; to me higher education should be about encouraging communication, especially inquiry, not Shutting TFU.

However, I do agree with mjgrady that most questions should be posed during office hours, not during a lecture.
posted by sic at 6:54 AM on September 17, 2007

Consider the advantage of not integrating. The vast majority of what teenage / early 20s college students occupy themselves with is irrelevant, or even destructive, to the ends of higher education. Partying for 12 weeks and cramming for 2 weeks is not a formula for learning.

Someone who has been out in the world for a while has a huge leg up in doing what most highly successful students do: treat school like a job. Check in to the library at 8 a.m. and check out at 6 p.m. Monday to Friday, going to class like meetings in the workday. Go to the gym in the early evenings and get a good night's sleep, and the weekends are yours. You'll have all the required reading, and optional reading on top of that, easily done before every class. How many kids who love to shoot the shit at cafes have that done? Not many. And you can even have a shot at the gold standard attained by virtually no teenager college student -- having a full and satisfactory draft of every essay done a couple of days before it is due, with plenty of time to proof-read and polish.

Constantly talking in class -- what law students call being a "gunner" -- is a sign of either passion or insecurity. Both are profoundly uncool to your typical teenager. If you want to curry their favor, though, it's probably harmless to talk less than you're tempted -- the superficiality of classroom discussion makes them a poor forum for your passion, anyway. Far better to wait to be called upon (in a seminar where profs call on you) or simply meet the participation standard and astonish with the clarity of your insights (fueled by having done all the reading...)
posted by MattD at 8:22 AM on September 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

As a nursing student, I have been privileged enough to watch the "second-degrees" (people getting a nursing degree in an accelerated program after already getting a bachelors) in two settings: mixed evenly with traditional students and in a separate class with only a few traditional students (myself being one of them).

I noticed, during this field study, that the second degrees tended to go on (and on and on) when in class with the traditionals, but not as much when on their own. I speculate that they felt their experience was more worthwhile to the traditionals, but reined it in when in class with their peers. However, after getting to know many of the second degrees, I found my life experience was equal if not more than many of them.

And, having been in both traditional-only and second degree majority classes, no matter how you mix it, there is always going to be "that" guy (or girl); the one that just can't STFU. During their soliloquies, feel free to make faces with the other students and pass notes about how much "that" guy annoys you.
posted by nursegracer at 8:29 AM on September 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

There are attention-seekers, prof-hogs and braggarts in every age group. Don't worry too much about what the younger students think of you and don't allow the generalisations you read here to affect your studies. You probably do have insights that could benefit them, and if they're cheesed about that, it's really their own problem. Probably when they're in their 30s they'll be embarrassed about what know-it-alls they were at 18. You're there to do your studies, so put yourself first and do what you need to.
posted by loiseau at 8:47 AM on September 17, 2007

I did study together with both "good" and "bad" older students when I was 20-24. I went went back to university at mid 30's. The advice given by whoaali, 913 and others is very true. As another example of "don't behave as you are better than the young students", I'll add:

Don't talk about money. If you have more money than typical students, do not show it (i.e. no expensive clothes or bags, or talks about your apartment). Do not tell anyone about money-problems or income. If there's any chance of you paying for food or snacks, don't carry large bills.

Consider your experience to be just as much a disadvantage as an advantage, as it keeps you from seeing things in a new perspective. Disregard it at first, then at the end you might use it to conclude you wasn't wrong in the beginning.

Talk to the professor as a student talks to a teacher, and not as a colleague (even if he is younger than you). Some teachers might think you are a more interesting student, but don't let them use you. Move to back of class if you have a teacher that wants you to be the teachers pet (because you don't get a better education by being a pet, only a much worse relationship to the other students).

Behave like you don't have a life outside the college (many students don't) until they ask you. Then you can tell a *little* about it, but keep it short until they keep pestering you about it.

Oh, and accept that most of them will never want to be your friend. Many young people have trouble relating to older people because the only older people they have interacted with are their parents/family, and not other pupils/students/employees. So they will keep the distance, some way or the other. It's just like doing consulting business at another company: you might make friends, but it is not the purpose (and neither is to be judged as a person).
posted by flif at 10:17 AM on September 17, 2007

Thanks for spawning a very interesting and revealing thread.

By the evidence of it, you will be the object of a startling amount of undeserved hostility, including some outright frothing at the mouth.

Cast a cold eye upon it all, and do exactly what works for you, regardless.
posted by jamjam at 11:04 AM on September 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

It sucks when any student, of any age monopolizes the class. I think I notice and remember older students doing this because I always feel like they should really know better. As an older student myself, I always appreciate people of all ages sharing extracurricular information about a subject. Happily, I don't go to lain's school, because students that don't care about any information from outside school sound like a drag.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:12 AM on September 17, 2007

If you want to understand why it takes "courage" to go back to college as a 30 or 40 something year old adult, look no further than the attitudes expressed in Iain's and Flif's comments. Revelatory indeed.
posted by psmealey at 11:20 AM on September 17, 2007

When I was in school, I had a few classes with older students. There was only one that I remember distinctly, because he was a great big pain: there pretty much wasn't a lecture where he didn't try to explain why the lecturer must be wrong about something, or gasp in exasperation when he didn't get the answer he wanted to a hair-splitting series of questions about this or that. And this was axiomatic comp sci stuff, hardcore math where there wasn't a lot of give and take on what makes a right answer: your NFA is correct or its not, etc. He was just wrong a lot and wouldn't shut up.

And in that way, he resembled a number of 18-22 undergrads. There are always folks who are a pain in the ass, and I don't think age necessarily has to do with it so much as attitude. I remember that dude better than some of the younger, equally pain-in-the-ass students I had to share space with because he was an unusual-for-that-campus older student—which may not be fair, perception-wise, to older students, but is probably the reality you'll have to deal with. You'll likely not be treated differently just for being older, though it's possible that anything seen as transgressive behavior in the class will be reacted to differently.

I have essentially nothing to say about any of the other older students I had classes with, because most of them acted like the rest of the students—varyingly attentive, asking questions or contributing to the conversation in fair shares, just sort of following the mode of whatever the class dynamic was. That's pretty much the whole thing, I think: pay attention to what the class is like, behave in that spirit, and things should be fine.
posted by cortex at 12:30 PM on September 17, 2007

I was one of those older students, was in my 30's when I went back for a masters and needed to take some of the core undergrad classes. Those core classes were some of the first ones I took. I felt like I was at a disadvantage because the younger folks had studying and taking tests down pat from high school - I was way out of practice. I forgot to take a pencil to the first test...pens don't do well on darken the dot tests...
So, just be like everyone else - take notes, share notes, see if you can join any study groups. These younguns know a lot, and if you're a quick learner, they can show you a few things you may not know - they hear the word on the street about certain profs. You'll not have the casual social interactions since you'll most likely be living a different lifestyle. I didn't get to socialize due to other obligations, but they didn't hold that against me. Just be normal, and realize you're no more special than anyone else.
I did, however, find that I had a better sense of organization than when I was first in school, and I also knew what was a bunch of crap when it came from a lecturer's mouth. (but I was respectful enough to not say so...mostly. - Hey, I had grades to worry about!)
Oh, and best wishes - it's not easy going back.
posted by mightshould at 2:19 PM on September 17, 2007

God this is a depressing thread.

I think integration partially depends on environment, the school where you are, and the mix of students.

I'm an older student, and have been to several different schools as an older student (late twenties/early thirties undergrad). For the most part it was relatively easy, although I had to make the first move when it came to socializing/putting together study groups.

For what it's worth, the university I went to in TN had much nicer young undergrads that WA. In Tennessee I had no trouble at all, unless you count the occasional group project where the students I worked with ended up completely dropping the ball.

Good luck! And don't discount grad students for socializing--you'll probably have more in common with them than the undergrads. For one thing most of them are more serious about their education and won't consider you to be "lame" when you're passionate about something.
posted by tejolote at 3:21 PM on September 17, 2007

Thank you so much, everyone - I feel like I have a better handle on the situation now. I'm definitely going to use that "four count" suggestion!

Also, I got my first bachelor's* late, too (2000-2003), so I'm still OK on studying/taking notes - plus I'm a frequent visitor to Facebook and RateMyProfessor, ha ha. I'm good on that front.

*B.S. in Computer Information Systems
posted by Liosliath at 3:24 PM on September 17, 2007

Tejolote - You're so right about what you mentioned in your 2nd sentence - my first bachelor's was mainly evening classes, most people had full time jobs outside of class, and it was just a different atmosphere. I'm planning to hang around my department and attend as many department sponsored events as possible - maybe I'll meet some of the grad students.
posted by Liosliath at 3:27 PM on September 17, 2007

I went back for a second bachelor degree when I was thirty. My friends were people who had been out of school for a bit and (25 and older) and students from other countries (regardless of age). I tried talking to a number of the Ontario students who were straight outta high school, but often they literally turned their heads when I was talking or there was not much common ground. (And no, I rarely talked in class.)
posted by philfromhavelock at 5:55 PM on September 17, 2007

Are you interested in theatre at all? Plays always call for older actors and theatre people typically get along with all age groups since plays call for them.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 8:10 PM on September 17, 2007

thebrokenmuse, that's not a bad idea. For those that wonder how that jibes with my shyness - hey, it's acting. I don't have to be my normal geeky self!
posted by Liosliath at 8:53 PM on September 17, 2007

I wrote out a long response, then realized I'd just reiterated what cortex said.

But I think it bears repeating, especially given that some people are being taken to task for being annoyed with monopolizing students.

It's always inappropriate for one student to monopolize the class, especially (as I once experienced) if the class is a large lecture. People don't resent this because the student in question is 'more engaged' with the material, they resent it because it's a self-indulgent waste of everyone else's time, and is disruptive. It's all about the appropriateness of the behavior. For some reason, I noticed this behaviour in a higher percentage of mature students than traditional just-out-of-high-school types. I'm assuming that's just due to sample size.
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 12:04 AM on September 18, 2007

I noticed this behaviour in a higher percentage of mature students than traditional just-out-of-high-school types.

I did too, but I always attributed it to the enthusiasm, which is by and large is a good thing, as opposed to satisfying some need to monopolize the class. At any rate, by the first mid-term, I'd noticed that the mature students were just as ground down as everyone else, so it stopped being an issue, even if it ever was in the first place. This was my experience at the University of Chicago, where enthusiasm is always crushed by the dark matter mass of the institution, so YMMV.
posted by psmealey at 3:13 AM on September 18, 2007