Comments on: How do you pronounce stressed them?

Question: How do you pronounce stressed them?

Inigo Jones — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:00:28 -0800

How do you pronounce them when it's stressed? For instance, "Don't give it to me, give it to THEM." I pronounce the stressed them so that it rhymes with bum. I'm trying to get a sense whether this is idiosyncratic with me, or whether it's a dialectical thing (and if so, which dialect).

I expect there to be some variation, but get the sense most people will pronounce it to rhyme with hem. Though maybe not.

So, how do you pronounce it?

By: Sassyfras

Sassyfras — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:02:31 -0800

Rhyme with hem. I've never heard it the bum way.

By: mpls2

mpls2 — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:02:31 -0800

I'm a rhymes-with-gem guy.

By: notsnot

notsnot — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:03:30 -0800

Hem

By: ALongDecember

ALongDecember — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:03:35 -0800

I say them like hem. I have never heard "thum."

By: puritycontrol

puritycontrol — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:04:16 -0800

hem

By: tastybrains

tastybrains — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:04:36 -0800

I definitely only ever pronounce "them" as rhyming with "hem" or "gem".

I don't think I have ever heard it rhyme with "bum". So it sounds like thumb when you say it?

By: electroboy

electroboy — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:05:29 -0800

I've heard they-em, but it's less common.

By: John Kenneth Fisher

John Kenneth Fisher — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:08:06 -0800

hem

By: olinerd

olinerd — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:08:28 -0800

(Grew up in Ohio, starting sixth year in Massachusetts)

Stressed, rhymes with "hem". Unstressed, rhymes with "bum", especially if I'm talking fast.

By: jeffxl

jeffxl — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:11:30 -0800

Rhymes with hem, since it ends in h-e-m.

thum? wtf?

By: Xere

Xere — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:13:14 -0800

Themmmm. Extra emphasis with trail-off "m".

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:16:11 -0800

Rhymes with "hem," both stressed and not. I have heard "they-um" in the south.

By: bshort

bshort — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:16:25 -0800

You're doing it wrong.

It rhymes with "hem."

By: OilPull

OilPull — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:17:33 -0800

In an unstressed usage, it could sort of rhyme with bum, but it would be the 'shwa' sound, commonly sybolized with the upside-down letter 'e'.

See more here: http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/shwa.htm

By: lain

lain — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:18:27 -0800

After talking to myself for a bit, I realized I say "thum" unstressed, but really if I typed it, I would type it as "I talked to 'em". Stressed, I pronounce it rhyming with "hem".

By: lain

lain — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:19:58 -0800

Instead of thinking that it rhymes with "thum", think of it as saying 'em.

By: 23skidoo

23skidoo — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:21:21 -0800

Austin, here.

Rhymes with hem.

I've never heard the other way. Can you record yourself saying it? (I'm 95% "just curious" and 5% "willing to admit that part of me likes to laugh at accents".)

By: Inigo Jones

Inigo Jones — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:23:32 -0800

For the curious and thum-unbelieving, here is a recording of how I say it.

By: equalpants

equalpants — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:27:23 -0800

Southern California here. "Hem," because it's stressed, and I'd replace the "oo" sound in "to" with a schwa. If "to" was stressed, I'd pronounce it normally, and make "them" into something like "thum"--not exactly rhyming with "bum", not exactly a schwa, but somewhere around there. The correct sounds for "them" and "to" are so far away from each other, so whichever is less important gets altered.

(There's a term for this, isn't there? Umlaut or ablaut or something?)

By: Baby_Balrog

Baby_Balrog — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:28:16 -0800

Yeah that's weird. I'd probably call you on it.

By: Malor

Malor — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:32:04 -0800

I'm a speaker of California English, and it definitely rhymes with 'hem'.

I did have a friend who said 'thum' -- she was from Nova Scotia originally. Are you of Canadian background, perchance?

By: aubilenon

aubilenon — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:39:09 -0800

Even if the vowel were the same the th is different from thumb - thumb has a voiced interdental fricative, where them is unvoiced.

compare: the initial sounds in thistle and in this

By: acoutu

acoutu — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:40:46 -0800

If I was putting the emphasis solely on "them", I would say it so that it rhymes with "hem". I'd also be stressing "me". However, if I was shouting, "Give it to them!" or "talking about them", it would sound like "thum". I'm from BC.

By: blueshammer

blueshammer — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:41:18 -0800

I'm with olinerd. Unstressed thum, stressed them. But thum doesn't sound like thumb because it's really a schwa sound, as OilPull says. These are wikipedia's schwa examples:

like the 'a' in about /Y�ba�t/
like the 'e' in taken /�tejkYn/ and the /ðY/ (if before a consonant)
like the 'i' in pencil /�pensYl/
like the 'o' in eloquent /�elYkwYnt/
like the 'u' in circus /�s\�(y)kYs/
like the 'y' in sibyl /�sjbYl/

and I basically pronounce the schwa'd vowel in those words the same way I pronounce the e in an unstressed "them" at the end of a phrase like "Give it to them," which I either say as "Give it to thYm" or "Give it to 'Ym." In a sentence like "Is this for me or them?" it rhymes with hem.

By: Inigo Jones

Inigo Jones — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:42:52 -0800

aubile: the voicedness of th isn't in question; it's voiced in them for me, just like everyone else. What's in question is the quality of the vowel.

By: iconomy

iconomy — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:46:49 -0800

If I were stressing them I would rhyme them with hem.
If I were stressing give I would rhyme them with hum.

By: roll truck roll

roll truck roll — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:54:05 -0800

The more I say it to myself, the more it sounds like it rhymes with "gym".

By: wackybrit

wackybrit — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:56:49 -0800

It's common in England to pronounce "them" as thum and the stressed version as them rhyming with "hem". I pronounce both the last way though and it's in the volume and intonation.

By: dismas

dismas — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:57:40 -0800

hem

By: thinkingwoman

thinkingwoman — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:00:44 -0800

i rhyme with "hem" too. i am american, mostly unaccented with the occasional southernism (like, dan rather has a stronger accent than me).

what is your background? it might help to determine if it's a regional accent or a personal quirk if we had more info.

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:13:34 -0800

Huh? Why would you change the pronounciation based on italics?

By: agregoli

agregoli — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:13:45 -0800

Or rather, in this case, uppercase.

By: Sassyfras

Sassyfras — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:15:47 -0800

from iconomy: If I were stressing them I would rhyme them with hem.
If I were stressing give I would rhyme them with hum.

I just realized this is true for me as well! I can hear myself being stern with my children saying, "Give thum back to your brother!"

By: Inigo Jones

Inigo Jones — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:19:56 -0800

My background: Born in Latin America, moved to US (New Jersey) at age 2. Lived in New Jersey until age 7. Moved to Miami, FL and lived there until college.

There is a Miami accent of English (spoken by native English speakers who grew up in Miami, not necessarily immigrants), that I and other Miamians can identify, but as far as I can tell and others have told me, I don't have it. Generally, I think I have a fairly standard American accent ("how they talk on TV").

By: Inigo Jones

Inigo Jones — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:24:17 -0800

iconomy and sassyfras: As far as I can tell, that's a fairly standard schwa-ing of the vowel in an unstressed word. According to John C. McWhorter, you're supposed to talk that way.

By: alms

alms — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:24:18 -0800

Out of curiousity, when you pronounce "there" does it rhyme with "air" or "car"?

(Needless to say, I'm a "hem" kind of themmer.)

By: Inigo Jones

Inigo Jones — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:28:41 -0800

alms: air

By: Rykey

Rykey — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:39:52 -0800

Listened to your recording, and I don't think it sounds that odd (and I say this as a "rhymes with 'hem'" speaker).
I hear some minnesota, wisconsin, or canada in your pronunciation, I think.

And as for all the "You're doing it wrong" or "That's weird" comments-- I'll eat my shoes if there isn't a feature of your speech that would strike certain English speakers as strange!

By: Reggie Digest

Reggie Digest — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:44:07 -0800

Nthing unstressed thum, stressed them

By: Reggie Digest

Reggie Digest — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:45:59 -0800

(It's really more of a th'm than a thum, though.)

By: Malor

Malor — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:02:38 -0800

it would sound like "thum". I'm from BC.

Yeah, I think this is a Canadianism... see my reference above to 'thum' from a native Nova Scotian.

By: loiseau

loiseau — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:04:24 -0800

Malor: "I'm a speaker of California English, and it definitely rhymes with 'hem'.

I did have a friend who said 'thum' -- she was from Nova Scotia originally. Are you of Canadian background, perchance?"

Canadian, from New Brunswick (next to NS) -- never would say "thum" and it sounds very, very to my ears.

One more for "hem"

By: loiseau

loiseau — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:05:35 -0800

Sorry, not sure what happened there -- "very, very weird to my ears."

By: loiseau

loiseau — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:06:53 -0800

Oh, and I've lived in 6 or 7 Canadian provinces and I swear I've never heard this. It sounds like Valley-girl speak to me.

By: davey_darling

davey_darling — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:13:53 -0800

Late to the party I know, but here's my recording for comparison's sake.

Canadian, born and raised in Southern Ontario, now live in Northwestern Ontario.

By: lastobelus

lastobelus — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:48:28 -0800

@loiseau:

actually I think many (most?) canadians do tend to pronounce unstressed them with schwa (thYm) with the 'th' often barely aspirated and sometimes dropped altogether. But all canadians I can remember pronounce stressed them as th[m, or sometimes if they are really stressing it with a dipthong theYm.

By: lastobelus

lastobelus — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:52:53 -0800

in davey_darling's recording his first "them" is a diphthong not a pure vowel, but then when he says how he says it it is a pure vowel.

By: litlnemo

litlnemo — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:53:20 -0800

I'm a native Pacific Northwesterner, and the OP's recording sounds very odd to my ears -- I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it that way when the word is stressed. Sure, unstressed the word has a schwa which sounds sort of like "um" or maybe like "th'm", but the way it's pronounced in the recording is not in that circumstance, so it sounds unusual. If you were talking to me and I heard that I would definitely be distracted, and then probably ask where you were from.

I think it might be idiosyncratic with you, but maybe not.

By: Meagan

Meagan — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:43:01 -0800

If it's a Canadian thing, it might just be a Nova Scotian (or other regional) thing - because it sure ISN'T a Canadian thing. I've never met anyone (including non-Canadians I've met) who's said THEM any different than the regular them. I say it with a simple strength of the word. I've also been around plenty of Ottawa Valley and other valley accents, none of which pronounce it like you suggest.

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:36:11 -0800

Hem.
I agree with loiseau that it sounds a bit Valley-Girl ish. I wouldn't be surprised to hear "Don't give it to me, give it to thum - like, totally."

If you've seen the movie Real Genius (which you should), the science nerd girl Jordan talks this way. She has a strong "thum". Michelle Meyrink is the actress and she's from BC.

By: so_necessary

so_necessary — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:45:52 -0800

It's more "um"-sounding when it's unstressed, like "Give to 'em, Johnny!" Like the second syllable in "boredom." But your recording is unlike anything else i've heard - you truly are a unique snowflake.

By: MythMaker

MythMaker — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:47:24 -0800

I've never heard anyone pronounce it "thum" before your audio recording. It's mispronounced.

By: flod logic

flod logic — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:15:05 -0800

Northern Minnesotan here - I pronounce "them" (both stressed and unstressed) to rhyme with "hem". "Thum" sounds very strange to me.

By: myl

myl — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:25:04 -0800

Other examples of the same sort of development include most Americans' pronunciation of stressed "of", and many Americans' pronunciation of "because". See this post on Language Log for some further discussion.

By: Ruki

Ruki — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 07:18:51 -0800

I say thum, too, but only if it's unstressed.

By: Reggie Digest

Reggie Digest — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:44:52 -0800

It sounds like Valley-girl speak to me.

Thirded. (It is definitely not a Canadianism of any sort.)

By: Reggie Digest

Reggie Digest — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:48:43 -0800

I've also been around plenty of Ottawa Valley and other valley accents, none of which pronounce it like you suggest.

Erm, no. Valley Girl.

By: zardoz

zardoz — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:47:58 -0800

Wow. Just listened to your recording, Indigo, and that's weird. Never heard that pronunciation before.

Nthing them as in "hem". Unstressed, it's not exactly a short "u" sound, more like no vowel sound at all: "thm". BTW, I have a standard Mid-America accent ('tho I grew up in the South!)