iPhone Unlock Updates
September 12, 2007 8:28 PM Subscribe
Should I an iPhone and unlock it for use in Mexico? Will an update kill the unlock and leave me stuck with with a useless iPhone?
I want an iPhone so bad and I know about a few people using it with the Telcel network here in Monterrey, Mexico. My only problem is the unlock, since nobody seems to know if an update will eradicate it completely. I don't want to get stuck with an old software version of the iPhone and I also want to use hacked apps so...
Does anybody know if the "100 dollar unlock" or the "free unlock" will work or at least keep updating after an iPhone update?
I want an iPhone so bad and I know about a few people using it with the Telcel network here in Monterrey, Mexico. My only problem is the unlock, since nobody seems to know if an update will eradicate it completely. I don't want to get stuck with an old software version of the iPhone and I also want to use hacked apps so...
Does anybody know if the "100 dollar unlock" or the "free unlock" will work or at least keep updating after an iPhone update?
Apple is going to do everything they can to disable the unlock. Don't count on an unlocked phone working much longer.
posted by tylermoody at 8:43 PM on September 12, 2007
posted by tylermoody at 8:43 PM on September 12, 2007
Telcel is talking with Apple now, but who knows if/when a deal will be done. I don't think it will be too long. It might be worth it to wait a bit longer and at least see if the updates break the unlock.
posted by lovejones at 9:01 PM on September 12, 2007
posted by lovejones at 9:01 PM on September 12, 2007
Considering that the unlock method relies on a buffer overflow, it is certain to be fixed in the very next update. Even if Apple loved the unlockers, a buffer overflow is a security vulnerability. Of course, the unlockers will find some other way of unlocking the phone, but it might be a while before they find a new way to unlock it.
posted by evariste at 9:10 PM on September 12, 2007
posted by evariste at 9:10 PM on September 12, 2007
Engadget.com and Gizmodo.com have constant updates on iPhone unlocking software. It's pretty clear that some update in the future will probably relock the phone, but there will always be unlock options, hackers are too resourceful.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:16 PM on September 12, 2007
posted by blue_beetle at 9:16 PM on September 12, 2007
lovejones,
just curious, what are your sources (other than telcel being the obvious choice) ?
posted by edmz at 9:28 PM on September 12, 2007
just curious, what are your sources (other than telcel being the obvious choice) ?
posted by edmz at 9:28 PM on September 12, 2007
Both the hardware and software unlocks rely on a hacked firmware for the baseband radio. This radio firmware has already been updated once by apple, and I'd count on it happening again. I'd also count on the open source hacking team to try and eventually succeed in hacking each new version, at least until the nest of them get tired of playing cat and nose with apple and move on to and more interesting challenge.
The other issue is the mechanism fow writing that hacked firmware. The software unlock relies on a bug. I would count on apple to close that hole soon, probably when they deliver an update to enable the mobile iTMS in a few weeks.
I think the hardware unlocks method of making the baseband firmware writable is going to be harder to block, at least for phones already manufactured.
posted by Good Brain at 11:08 PM on September 12, 2007
The other issue is the mechanism fow writing that hacked firmware. The software unlock relies on a bug. I would count on apple to close that hole soon, probably when they deliver an update to enable the mobile iTMS in a few weeks.
I think the hardware unlocks method of making the baseband firmware writable is going to be harder to block, at least for phones already manufactured.
posted by Good Brain at 11:08 PM on September 12, 2007
> Apple is going to do everything they can to disable the unlock.
There is no reason to believe this is the case. In fact, it would be trivial to push out a "mandatory" update that does nothing but that, as Sony does with the PSP firmware, and have done it already. But it's in their best financial interest that the thing can be unlocked -- the only reason they'd want to limit unlocks would be under pressure from AT&T. Their stance on third-party software is essentially "Do whatever you want, but if our software update happens to break your shit it's not our problem." [For example.] I'd expect that, internally, that's also their stance on iPhone unlocks.
That is not to say software updates won't consistently "re-lock" your iPhone to AT&T. There is a good chance they will, and the phone will need to be unlocked again, probably in the exact same way as before. There is no real motivation or precedent for Apple to actively break/nullify every known unlock solution with every software update they push out. Even if they did, there is and always will be a significant demand for iPhone unlock solutions, and there is and always will be the tinkerers to provide it.
posted by churl at 1:03 AM on September 13, 2007
There is no reason to believe this is the case. In fact, it would be trivial to push out a "mandatory" update that does nothing but that, as Sony does with the PSP firmware, and have done it already. But it's in their best financial interest that the thing can be unlocked -- the only reason they'd want to limit unlocks would be under pressure from AT&T. Their stance on third-party software is essentially "Do whatever you want, but if our software update happens to break your shit it's not our problem." [For example.] I'd expect that, internally, that's also their stance on iPhone unlocks.
That is not to say software updates won't consistently "re-lock" your iPhone to AT&T. There is a good chance they will, and the phone will need to be unlocked again, probably in the exact same way as before. There is no real motivation or precedent for Apple to actively break/nullify every known unlock solution with every software update they push out. Even if they did, there is and always will be a significant demand for iPhone unlock solutions, and there is and always will be the tinkerers to provide it.
posted by churl at 1:03 AM on September 13, 2007
Bill Thompson has a good article on why this isn't really worth it.
posted by conch soup at 3:35 AM on September 13, 2007
posted by conch soup at 3:35 AM on September 13, 2007
I unlocked my iPhone the night the free unlock code came out, and so far, so good. I'm also anxious about what the next iPhone software update will do. I hate AT&T so much that I'll gladly eat the ETF if I have to so that I can return to T-Mobile -- which, contrary to reputation, has given me better coverage than AT&T has -- at least where I live and travel. Not to mention that whole complicit-in-the-warrantless-wiretaps thing.
You ARE allowed to unlock your phone for private use, per a special exception in the otherwise shitty DMCA. So if Apple releases firmware that kills an unlock, they could potentially be getting into murky legal waters. There may be times when it's unavoidable (e.g., a legitimate software upgrade to optimize the baseband radio firmware), but in such a case, any reversing of an unlock would be unintentional, not a deliberate act on Apple's part to annoy the unlockers. And besides, Apple will probably want to avoid the appearance (and I emphasize that word) of circumventing the DMCA (what a delicious irony), which is exactly what would happen if seemed to be actively fighting consumers' legitimate rights to unlock their hardware.
Here's one way we'll know: If there are updates that involve updating the baseband radio firmware, we know this will likely kill the SIM unlock. But if the hack to re-unlock it is exactly the same as before -- and doesn't require more marathon overnight coding/hacking sessions by third parties to figure out a new unlock method -- then that's Apple's quiet way of saying "OK, unlock all you want, but don't be surprised if our updates sometimes inadvertently undo your work. But we're not doing it deliberately, or to be assholes about it."
Looking at their attitude toward software development for the iPhone and iPod touch (which is essentially along the lines of the quoted portion of the last paragraph), and considering they haven't done anything to fight the Apple TV hacks (up to and including hacks to turn it into a full-fledged Mac, albeit not the most powerful), I think there's a chance that this may be the course Apple decides to take. There are too many grey areas here -- the idea that you can't really control what someone does with a device after they buy it; the DMCA technically allowing the lock to happen; AT&T NOT subsidizing a penny of the iPhone's price (which means they lose most of the leverage they otherwise would get by claiming that subsidizing the phone somehow gives them some sort of God-like ownership of it for all time), etc.
Another thing that's quite telling: Both Apple and AT&T have been absolutely silent. One of the commercial unlock developers claims AT&T's lawyers called them with vague threats, but we have no way of knowing if that's even true. The other commercial developer made no such claim, and went ahead and sold the unlock.
It isn't black or white. Most likely outcome, as I see it: Cat-and-mouse game of unlock/relock, but I don't think Apple's firmware updates, etc. will deliberately re-lock unlocked phones.
posted by CommonSense at 7:39 AM on September 13, 2007
You ARE allowed to unlock your phone for private use, per a special exception in the otherwise shitty DMCA. So if Apple releases firmware that kills an unlock, they could potentially be getting into murky legal waters. There may be times when it's unavoidable (e.g., a legitimate software upgrade to optimize the baseband radio firmware), but in such a case, any reversing of an unlock would be unintentional, not a deliberate act on Apple's part to annoy the unlockers. And besides, Apple will probably want to avoid the appearance (and I emphasize that word) of circumventing the DMCA (what a delicious irony), which is exactly what would happen if seemed to be actively fighting consumers' legitimate rights to unlock their hardware.
Here's one way we'll know: If there are updates that involve updating the baseband radio firmware, we know this will likely kill the SIM unlock. But if the hack to re-unlock it is exactly the same as before -- and doesn't require more marathon overnight coding/hacking sessions by third parties to figure out a new unlock method -- then that's Apple's quiet way of saying "OK, unlock all you want, but don't be surprised if our updates sometimes inadvertently undo your work. But we're not doing it deliberately, or to be assholes about it."
Looking at their attitude toward software development for the iPhone and iPod touch (which is essentially along the lines of the quoted portion of the last paragraph), and considering they haven't done anything to fight the Apple TV hacks (up to and including hacks to turn it into a full-fledged Mac, albeit not the most powerful), I think there's a chance that this may be the course Apple decides to take. There are too many grey areas here -- the idea that you can't really control what someone does with a device after they buy it; the DMCA technically allowing the lock to happen; AT&T NOT subsidizing a penny of the iPhone's price (which means they lose most of the leverage they otherwise would get by claiming that subsidizing the phone somehow gives them some sort of God-like ownership of it for all time), etc.
Another thing that's quite telling: Both Apple and AT&T have been absolutely silent. One of the commercial unlock developers claims AT&T's lawyers called them with vague threats, but we have no way of knowing if that's even true. The other commercial developer made no such claim, and went ahead and sold the unlock.
It isn't black or white. Most likely outcome, as I see it: Cat-and-mouse game of unlock/relock, but I don't think Apple's firmware updates, etc. will deliberately re-lock unlocked phones.
posted by CommonSense at 7:39 AM on September 13, 2007
Sorry for not contributing with an answer, but you don't have an email on your profile and I wanted to say hi, as we're both in Monterrey.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 3:37 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by CrazyLemonade at 3:37 PM on September 13, 2007
Followup: TUAW has a little more insight about the likelihood that the next firmware update will re-lock the phone. Just rumors, FWIW.
posted by churl at 6:22 PM on September 15, 2007
posted by churl at 6:22 PM on September 15, 2007
Followup [2]: This Ars Technica article may have placed my foot in my mouth for me -- Apple appears to be taking an active stance against SIM unlocks.
posted by churl at 12:33 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by churl at 12:33 PM on September 19, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
No-one knows; I doubt even Apple knows. You have to presume, though, that now the method to unlock the iPhone is in the open, the unlockers will be able to track what gets updated and respond to it. In short, have a second phone handy, and consider yourself a guinea pig... in a vivisection lab.
posted by holgate at 8:36 PM on September 12, 2007