How do I get off the pedestal?

September 6, 2007 5:46 AM

How can I gently -- and covertly -- help someone become more secure about their value in their relationship with me?

I'm in a new relationship with a woman...we met online, started dating, and we have a lot in common -- both values & interests. We click. We enjoy each other. We're HOT in the bedroom.

However, she is a little too swept away, in that she seems to give me a higher value than her. I wouldn't call her insecure by any stretch, but I just sense a certain nervousness sometimes. She compliments me a little too much, apologizes a little too often. I attribute this having happened to the fact that I have more "game" than she does.

I would love for her to feel completely comfortable and confident in her attraction for me, but I'm not always so good at that side of things.

What I don't want to do is parrot what she says. If she says, "you're amazing" I don't want to feel obliged to reply "No you are amazing." But if she does say something like "you are amazing" or "you are adorable" I don't want her to wait too long before she feels similarly valued. But without becoming Nice Guy.

Mostly I want her to feel she has the same value to me as I to her because I want her to feel good, but also for selfish reasons: I want her to show more game because I like challenge in my relationships. Also, when the glitter wears off and she starts to notice all my faults, I want the pedestal I was on to not be so high so that the fall is not so hard.

Part of the problem is that when I do things to demonstrate my affection, I'm pretty damn creative at it, making her feel even more swept away, thus valuing me even higher...

I want her to feel she has the same value to me as I to her. How do you do that when everything you do to make her feel good makes you more amazing in her eyes and thus higher valued? It's a conundrum I can not solve.

(she's not a mefite, but would find this on google if I posted non-anonymously)

posted by anonymous to human relations (34 comments total)

I want her to show more game because I like challenge in my relationships

Um, it sounds like you're trying to change her basic nature (appreciative, expressive) to make her more like you or like some image of your perfect girlfriend. A recipe for failure, because she can probably tell you want her to change and that's what's making her feel anxious. If you want to make her more comfortable, appreciate her more. Not dramatic gestures that "sweep her away" (because those are 50% about proving how much "game" you have) but rather simple, honest appreciation.
posted by footnote at 6:25 AM on September 6, 2007 [4 favorites]

If you do "pretty damn creative" things to show affection, doesn't that show that you value her? Besides, it's the beginning stages, enjoy the hero worship while it lasts.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 AM on September 6, 2007

Even people who tend to talk about themselves self-depracatingly will have things about themselves that they are proud of, special hobbies they are good at or something. Getting to know her, you can probably figure out what these things are, and you should remind her of them!

Saying "Hey, I think it is great how good you are at [hobby/skill/aspect of personality]" will always be appreciated and taken to heart more than a generic "No, YOU'RE amazing!". A specific, concrete compliment is much less easy to brush off as meaningless flattery.
posted by ITheCosmos at 6:29 AM on September 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

I used to be your girlfriend. Well, not your girlfriend, but I acted the same way with my boyfriend. Honestly, it was becuase I thought he was amazing, and that I was lucky to be with him, and that he would leave me for someone better any second.

That lasted... maybe a year? It got less intense over that year. And now we're married and I'm still lucky to have him, but I'm not scared he'll leave anymore.

I wish I could tell you that he did something to help make this easier, but I think really it was just a matter of time. Like I finally realized, well, if he's still with me, it's becuase he really does like me. If you can find the fine line between showing up as a suprise when unexpected and stalking, that might be a good start. When he randomly visited me at work or home (we lived on a college campus) without prompting from me, that helped. Even now, if he sends me an email at work without prompting just to say "i love you" it means more than, as you said, a parrot.

Also, just smiling at her or holding her hand unprompted is probably a good start (if you haven't started already).
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:41 AM on September 6, 2007 [7 favorites]

I'm trying to think of a way to frame this constructively, but it may come out as snark.

"game"? Really?

It sounds like you actually care about this woman, but the use of the term "game" in this question bothers me. If you really like her and she appreciates you for the person you are - great. If she's only appreciating your "game" because that's what you're showing her, then it's going to be a precipitous fall anyway. Why try to "game" her to higher ground and make it a two person free fall?
posted by FlamingBore at 6:42 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

What do you mean by "game", as in: you have more game than her, and want her to show more game?

It seems to me that somehow you're either looking for a solution that's not there, or you're worried about a problem that's not there.

If she really does have low self-esteem or is insecure: than I don't know if there's that much you can do about it. She will lean more on you to feel good about herself, and this will be something of a burden to you; either it's too much and it breaks the relationship, or you learn to deal with it. It seems to me like praising or complimenting her more on purpose is a bad tactic. I think it would undermine the communication in the relationship in a boy-who-cried-wolf sort of way, and the compliments and attention you would naturally have given her will become doubtful in value, both to her and to yourself. You will start to make gestures of "valuing" her out of a feeling of responsibility and conscience and neither of you will know anymore what you really feel. Also it might not raise her self-esteem but just encourage her to invest more of her self-worth in you and your attentions.

If she is perfectly secure in her own ego, than it could just be that the two of you have different ways of showing affection -- her in constant reminders, you in less frequent but more meaningful gestures -- and there's not much you can do about this either. It's unlikely that either of you will change, but the dynamic will eventually stabilize itself. If the signals get crossed and she starts to feel like you don't value her, then open communication is the only way to resolve it.

When she says to you "you're amazing" or "you're adorable" or if she uses the nuclear option and says "I love you" you have no obligation to respond in kind and you shouldn't. You shouldn't even worry about it. You don't have to constantly reiterate your feelings for her every moment, your feelings should become clear over the course of time and if they're not, then again: open communication. And again: complimenting her more on purpose than you naturally would is a bad idea, it will undermine the communication and undermine your feelings for her.

Anyway it sounds to me like you're worried because, like everyone, you're scared of commitment, and the more extravagantly and frequently she praises you, the larger this commitment looms in your mind. Becoming fixated on somehow fulfilling this commitment is to my mind the beginning of a bad spiral. It will place too much stress on you and hence too much stress on the relationship. Let her praise you and take it in stride, and then, when you feel like it, show her affection; if the relationship lasts, this dynamic will stabilize itself. Or if it bothers you too much, then talk to her and tell her that it bothers you that she seems to value you too much.

Anyway sorry for the long answer and I hope I have understood your problem correctly.
posted by creasy boy at 6:44 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

If you're uncomfortable with her laying huge compliments on you, it sounds like maybe you're the one with the self-esteem issue. besides, being "Amazing" is a lot to live up to!

My preferred response when someone says something like that to me is "Thanks, I have my moments", which shows appreciation for the compliment and also doesn't reek of arrogance.

You don't have to respond in kind every time someone compliments you. Think of how silly that would sound of someone complimented, say, your needlepoint. If someone gives you a compliment with the sole purpose of hoping to get a similar one in return, then its not really much of a compliment, anyway.

In any case, her self-esteem problem is her problem. To quote Katt Williams "N----, it's called +SELF+ esteem!"
posted by softlord at 6:51 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

"Hush, woman. You're just trying to get into my pants."
posted by electroboy at 6:57 AM on September 6, 2007 [10 favorites]

I want her to show more game because I like challenge in my relationships.

What do you mean by game? Also, if you want "challenge" in your relationships, perhaps a committed relationship isn't for you. It sounds as though you want to be out hunting for new challenges. If that's the case, then you should reconsider a relationship with this woman - for her sake.

To your specific question, just keep being yourself. You'll fall off the pedestal soon enough. Everyone does.
posted by 26.2 at 6:58 AM on September 6, 2007

I don't see what's wrong with her attitude or behavior. What I see wrong is your inability to accept it.
posted by majick at 7:16 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

Hmm... maybe if you're doing these creative affectionate things she feels sort of the way that you do? I mean, if you do something amazing & creative & lovely & she's doesn't then she might want to tell you you're amazing so that you know she reciprocates?
posted by Wood at 7:18 AM on September 6, 2007

I think the first step is removing yourself from the pedestal in your own head. I'm not trying to be snarky, but you sound like me about three years ago.

And there's nothing wrong with being "Nice Guy." You can be nice without lowering your own value as a person. In fact, if done right, your value gets a lot higher.
posted by PFL at 7:20 AM on September 6, 2007

Have you ever thought that she might be genuine in her comments and feelings for you? Why play games? She happens to be more communicative than you are and more comfortable in expressing herself. There is nothing wrong or suspicious or insecure about that. She knows what she wants and goes after it.

Nervousness comes from not knowing where she stands. It's great that she can tell you but why not let her know as well? It is extremely frustrating when it is only one sided, especially if you've been together for a few of months. When you care for someone, you should let them know. Not play games. Poker faces are for card games--not relationships.

And trust me, if she's anything like I am, I am sure she is aware of your faults but accepts you for who you are and that is pretty rare. So embrace it rather than question it. There are so few good ones out there. And bask in the attention but also, give her some back or else you'll lose her, and fast, because women can take so much of giving without receiving.

Bottom line, you need to communicate. She probably knows by now that you are a man of few words so whatever you do say, she'll know you mean it.

Challenge--I heard men thrive on that. But you reach a certain stage in life where a committed relationship is more about values and common interest. You reach a point where comfort is more important that thrill. You can be challenged in exploring different things together but a committed relationship is more about companionship and less about the lusting electrical feeling which, in the end, is not healthy because who wants to feel anxious all the time (and, from experience, leads to insecurity and an empty relationship where you end up getting hurt). If you're compatible, have great sex and she's into you--where's the problem?

Anyways...I am rambling here but I'm sure you get the point.
posted by Superlicious at 7:21 AM on September 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

Stop reading Pick Up Artist books, stop playing games, stop trying to inject some concept of competing worth or value into your relationship. Start treating her like a real person, start acting like a real person rather than a secret scorekeeper, and I suspect things will be settle themselves out fine.
posted by occhiblu at 7:28 AM on September 6, 2007 [4 favorites]

Time to drop the "L" bomb.
posted by LordSludge at 7:39 AM on September 6, 2007

Here are some ideas to bring more balance to the esteem exchange going on:

Ask her to teach you something that only she knows how to do -- a sport she excels at, a craft, a dish she cooks that you have no clue about. Be her student, ask questions, get interested and give her eye contact and verbal interaction that tells her that you look up to her.

On that note, setup a situation where you can volunteer together. Everyone wants to be giving and perceived as such. Give her opportunities to be the better volunteer. An example would be to do something with kids or seniors and then be sure to let her have the limelight. Even better, let some of your natural dorky side come out during the experience. Kids and seniors can spot a dork from a mile away, and will no doubt tell the world about it. At the end of the experience, lend her a compliment.

Bestow upon her a nickname. Make it sweet and individual to her. If she's already got a nickname, start using the standard ones like "Honey", "Sweetheart", "Darling" and so forth. The way you refer to her in general can demonstrate a lot of worth. Calling her "Dear" shows that she's dear to you.

Think of your worst subject in school and university. Find a way to tell a story about it. At the end, ask her how she did in that same subject. If she did well, let her know that you admire her ability. If she also sucked at it, use it as an opportunity to show her that you are both normal people -- on the same level, who suck at math.

Think of a time when you tried to save the day, and it didn't work out. Tell her about it and try to make it funny. At the end, let her know that you'd jump at the chance to save her day if she was having a bad one and that she can call on you when she needs to. Using statements like, "You are important to me, I want you to be safe/happy/etc." will cap things nicely.

Show her all of your scars, one by one. Inside and out.

Take a long road trip, and on this road trip allow your ipod to expose you for the Sussudio loving freak that you are. Sing along, even if you can't sing. On that same road trip, why not take the opportunity to fart in front of her for the first time? A funny way to unveil your flatulence is to periodically crack the window open, wait for her to notice your non-fart and then catch her -- "Made you sniff!" After a half dozen times, go ahead and give her the real thing. Everybody farts, why pretend that you're too special or that farts aren't hilarious.

Fix something of hers.

Tell her that you've missed her after not seeing her for a few days. Make it brief, but say it all the same.

Show her silly photos of you when you were a kid. If you've got any awful prom and homecoming couples shots with girls who had big bangs or poufy dresses, that'd be even better.

Get her to show you one of her favorite movies -- one you haven't seen before. Ask a lot of questions (when appropriate) and after the film. Get interested and excited about the plot.

When you're on the couch watching a movie, get her to give you her feet. Rub them, or hold them, the whole time. If she's not into that, invite her to lie across your lap. Put her hair behind her ear, over and over and over again. When a guy does this for me, I die inside. Not only is the act loving, but it also gives me the impression that he's generous with small things -- which is harder to do these days.

That's it for now, but here's the most important part:

Do none of these things if you can't do it with an earnest heart. On the face of it, these sorts of maneuvers are manipulations, some larger than others. If you've got the feeling and investment to back it up, these acts are more like a loving practice. If you don't, then you're simply a faker and she'll eventually find you out.
posted by cior at 7:54 AM on September 6, 2007 [9 favorites]

wait. hold on. game? did you really just use the word game?

holy crap. i'm in awe. are relationships a contest to you? do you have to be the winner, the dominant, the man who gets his pick of the litter? And you want her to be like you?

Oh man. If she ever became like you, you'd dump her in 5 seconds flat. Your fantasy does not equal you're reality nor will it ever.

It sounds like you are unable to take a compliment. Is your girlfriend fishing for compliments? It sounds like she isn't. It sounds like she is genuine in her assement, in her feelings and enjoys expressing them. She is enjoying how she is feeling right now and wants to express it. She might be afraid you'll leave her but that's a risk in all relationships. She probably is just excited to be with you.

Learn how to take a compliment - learn to say "Thanks" and smile and hold her hand while you're walking. And learn how to stop thinking about relationships as a game. You want challenge in your relationship? Learn that your only challenge is yourself - don't fuck it up because you're so full of yourself you honestly think your are superior to her.
posted by Stynxno at 8:16 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

I want her to feel she has the same value to me as I to her. How do you do that when everything you do to make her feel good makes you more amazing in her eyes and thus higher valued? It's a conundrum I can not solve.

"When I demonstrate love, she loves me back even MORE!! Oh noes!!!"

Wait, were you looking for a girl who would take compliments for granted? How very odd. You're clearly not dating that type of girl. Get to know THIS girl. These are the effects of twitterpation on her love-addled brain. The initial stage of love, when your partner is AMAZING and SO MUCH LIKE YOU and everything is BEAUTIFUL and you feel DAMN LUCKY all the time and you walk around grinning like an idiot.

There, there. This too shall pass. Perhaps consider enjoying it?
posted by heatherann at 8:32 AM on September 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

She compliments me a little too much, apologizes a little too often. I attribute this having happened to the fact that I have more "game" than she does.

So it sounds like you want her to be a bit more emotionally manipulative towards you, play the 'push-pull' game and put you on a rollercoaster of crazy emotions.

You have not mentioned one single thing that indicates she places herself at a lower value than you. Some people tend to give compliments and apologize quickly as part of their conversational style. It doesn't mean they don't value themselves. She is probably perfectly aware you have faults but doesn't care to stir up a big fight over them.

You like "challenge" in your relationships -- this sounds like "I like to have big fights over nothing of consequence". I'm sure you can find someone else who picks fights with you if that's what you want, or you could just grow up already. There will be plenty of "challenges" where your challenge will be to support and encourage each other through difficult times.
posted by yohko at 8:34 AM on September 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

You realize that the way women talk tends not to be the exact same way men talk? Women, for instance, apologize without actually being sorry for anything. Many women are complimenting machines. It doesn't mean that they don't like themselves, or that they agree with your A++ assessment of how rad you are.

If you really think that your girlfriend feels insecure in your relationship, words won't fix that. Your behavior will fix that, over time:

Don't cheat. Don't play games. Be honest about how you feel. If you're reading books on how to manipulate people, stop it immediately. Relate to her as a person. Things will mellow out.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:42 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

Simply step down.*

You have not mentioned a single example that suggests she places higher value on you. Or that she has issue with the imbalance of affection. But assuming that she does, based on what you've written, it would seem that you're the one who needs to feel more secure in the relationship. YOU believe there's an imbalance, and it's clear that you're not comfortable with it. In fact, you were so uncomfortable with it that you wrote a letter to AskMe, trying to get information about how to change her behavior, so that you can feel better. No problem with that, but if you want to change a situation you're in, the variable you have the most control and manipulation over is yourself. I'd suggest starting there. And then talking to her about it, including your thoughts about why the manner of her love and affection makes you feel like the relationship is imbalanced.

As to why your gf's communication style is this way...maybe she chooses to focus on the positive? Maybe she's not into drama**? She's a keeper! You could learn a lot.

Your girlfriend is a grownup. She won't go into a depression spiral when her illusion about your perfectness is shattered. Until she acts otherwise, assume she already sees the flaws. And accepts them. Isn't she great?

*another way to put this is "Get over yourself."
**euphemism for game
posted by iamkimiam at 9:48 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

Trust me, most women who have been around the dating/relationship block more than a few times genuinely want a Nice Guy. She likes what you are doing and wants you to keep doing it so she thanks you and compliments you when you do it...it's called positive reinforcement.

Words and phrases such as game , I like challenge in my relationships and without becoming Nice Guy have no place in a mature relationship. You don't seem ready for a mature relationship.

Echoing others... I'm not trying to be snarky, but you're not as wonderful as you think you are. And part of being a grown-up is realizing and acknowledging this fact.

Self-esteem is important in a relationship, an ego is not.
posted by socrateaser at 10:06 AM on September 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

It sounds like you're the one who is worried. She sounds fine. And if I were you, I would be worried, because you sound like you have an utterly strange view of relationships, possibly from reading too many books about how to use "game" to get women to like you.

You're worried now because you're afraid that you're not as awesome as she thinks you are. You're not worried that she's going to get hurt when you "fall off the pedestal." You're worried that she's going to see through the facade that you've so artfully built up in order to "win" her, and that she's not going to like the real you. Unfortunately, that's the risk you take when you play games in order to get a woman. But it sounds like she actually does like you.

What I would do now is focus on revealing your actual self to her. Stop with the "game" business. Relax. Breathe. She is comfortable and confident, and now it's time for you to be as well. There are some good suggestions above for learning to reveal your flaws to someone in a way that will be gradual and comfortable for you. I know this is hard, because you're used to putting up walls, but you're going to have to jump off of the pedestal that you've put yourself on and just trust that you're good enough that she actually does like you.

And if this relationship doesn't work out, for whatever reason, remember that you were in this place, and remember that you can avoid getting into this place again in the future by turning off your ridiculous "game" and being the nice guy you actually are from the beginning. If you'd be ashamed to tell a woman about the strategy you used to woo her, in the words you used to describe it at the time, it's not a strategy worth using.
posted by decathecting at 10:29 AM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm a woman who gives heartfelt praise to my partner and yes, apologizes too much, and I have loving, committed, mature relationships that (have) lasted for years. You need to go through this thread and favorite every single comment and take it to heart, because the advice you are getting here is pure gold.

Yes, I am serious.

Oh, and try giving a little more of yourself. Take your guard down. She sounds open and giving, and you sound immature and emotionally distant other than the occasional grand gesture.
posted by misha at 10:30 AM on September 6, 2007

I second cior's comments about making sure to do the small gestures as well as your "big extravagant gestures". Bouquets of flowers and intricately-planned nights on the town are great, but it sounds like you're paying more attention to how good you are at playing the game than ensuring that you're actually enjoying being with *her*.

It also sounds like you expect her to be a tease, or play hard to get, or challenge you with put-downs to ramp up the excitement level for you. Just because she isn't as practiced as you at picking up singles at a bar doesn't mean she's not twice as good as you at maintaining a loving, happy relationship. I bet if she is feeling at all insecure in this relationship, it's because she can tell you think of her as having 'less game' and in your eyes that puts her down a level on the totem pole. Believe me, we ladies are good at picking up on that. The first step is ridding yourself of the notion that you're better than her at dating.

p.s. regarding the frequent apologies.... "I'm sorry" is a habitual conversation filler and it's hard to break the habit. Women are more likely to over-use that phrase as a show of empathy/sympathy than to use it to mean that they're actually taking blame onto themselves.

Good luck!
posted by ahimsa at 10:36 AM on September 6, 2007

If you need an answer to the question of "how do I get my girlfriend to stop verbalizing her wonderful feelings about me" I think that you need to ask yourself why you would want that in the first place.

Enjoy. It ends soon enough.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:39 AM on September 6, 2007

It is precisely the knowing that men are illogically addicted to 'challenge' and 'the chase' that has me just about ready to give up on dating and relationships entirely. I don't have the energy--and find me a woman who does--to make sure your gender is properly entertained. You either like the woman you're with or you don't--everything else is a distraction. Relax and send the worry packing. Your boredom or disengagement is your responsibility alone--not hers.
posted by gsh at 12:05 PM on September 6, 2007 [3 favorites]

Old married lady advice: just be nice, and a nice guy is a rare and fantastic commodity that shouldn't be taken for granted (you sound bitter over something).

Know how I know my husband loves me? Because he does all my delicates, sorting them precisely by hand, even though he HATES HATES HATES it, because he wants to me to not stress over laundry. Or cause he drives me home when I'm tired. And cause he sends me emails that say 'Hi. I like you and I'm you're fan.'

Occasionally, he buys me a really nice present. But I like the emails more. It's the small everyday niceness that keeps everything going.
posted by beezy at 12:15 PM on September 6, 2007

I love what Stynxo said. Seriously, the only thing that is going to f*ck this up for you is your own ego. (And "game"?! That is so awesome. ) It may actually help you to parrot back her compliments about you to her in your head or something. Engage fully in the concept that she is just as awesome that you are. You are _lucky_ to have her. I don't know though. This whole "I like a challenge" thing is usually something you don't shake until you're a little more mature. Good luck, restrain yourself from ditching her because she actually expresses her affection, and know that you're days enjoying such status are probably numbered.
posted by smallstatic at 12:18 PM on September 6, 2007

Doing anything "covertly" smacks of manipulation...
posted by MiffyCLB at 1:16 PM on September 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

Another thought:

Try supplanting the dating game for real games and sports. Perhaps you want to see her competitive nature come out, and would like to have the sort of relationship steeped with a lot of humorous (but not hurtful) one-upmanship. Flex your wit and encourage her to do the same.

Give her some wordplay, pick up a game of Trivial Pursuit, start training for something together. Make cute bets and game-like challenges wherein sweet rewards can be doled out.

Keeping these themes going in your gaming of her in so far as relationship status is concerned is only going to end in pain. Find a better outlet.

Go rent Amelie.
posted by cior at 1:42 PM on September 6, 2007

What I don't want to do is parrot what she says... But if she does say something like "you are amazing" or "you are adorable" I don't want her to wait too long before she feels similarly valued.

Spend some time thinking about what you like about her, and how you honestly feel. "Do I like this woman? What do I like about her? What's special about what we have? What little things does she do that I enjoy? What feelings do I have when I'm around her?"

Then, when she says something about how "amazing" and/or "adorable" you are, you'll have thought about your true feelings, and you can tell her something that will actually be sincere. ("Thanks babe. You know? I really love the way you _____")

Another way to respond to this is to smile and say something like: "You know, I was thinking about you today, and _____." Or have a post-it note in your pocket with a heart on it and stick it to her somewhere. Or pick her a dandelion flower if you're near one. Anything that shows you care and you think about her. Sometimes a non-verbal response to a verbal compliment is just fine.
posted by eleyna at 10:01 PM on September 6, 2007

follow-up from the OP:

I would like to deeply thank everybody who responded. Reading through
these responses and taking time to view this new relationship through
the sort of different lenses people offered was a profoundly moving
experience for me. I can't even remember how to think about it the
way I was anymore. I really hemmed and hawed about posting the
question and I am really glad that I did. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn at 9:12 AM on September 7, 2007

Aw, a happy ending! How nice.
posted by footnote at 10:46 AM on September 7, 2007